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JDEZ09
Dark Side Alliance
11
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Posted - 2013.11.14 23:56:00 -
[31] - Quote
Jebus McKing wrote:The dark cloud wrote: The spool up time is only at the beginning of the fully auto fire and its so minimal that it doesnt matter. Ive didnt uncluded the burst variants and only mentioned the DPS for the fully auto rifles.
oh boy... The charge up time of the Rail Rifle in fact is so very significant that the Rail Rifle will NEVER be able to catch up on damage output compared to the AR! Here is a spreadsheet I made a while ago: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkgH4oyiFeUAdFpjQW0wRExKazF6empxY0R2Rm9iV3c&usp=sharing#gid=0Including not only DPS but also stats like 'damage after 1 second' so you can see that the Rail Rifles charge up time is far from "minimal". The AR will probably still deal the most DPS, not by far, but still. And it will also be the easiest weapon to use because it's full-auto and has no other limiting factors other but its low range.
This is a fantastic spreadsheat bro. I appreciate this because CCPs data sheet gave me a headache.
My concern is the hoebaggers that use modded controllers. Imagine a minmatar rifle with higher damage than the full-auto variant.. still shooting at full-auto speeds because they would allow it to be possible. Once they calculate the required trigger intervals to maintain that high dps. This is also reflected across the board with similar weapons. The tac AR got double nerfed.. but still the imperial scrabler rifle is immaculate for an Amarr assault that cheats like this. It should not be possible. I, for one, will NOT exploit these flaws and people who do should be banned from the game. The tac AR glory days were ended abruptly and swiftly because of the RPM exploit, why not prep that accross the board to ensure balance? |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
10237
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Posted - 2013.11.15 00:36:00 -
[32] - Quote
Jebus McKing wrote:The dark cloud wrote: The spool up time is only at the beginning of the fully auto fire and its so minimal that it doesnt matter. Ive didnt uncluded the burst variants and only mentioned the DPS for the fully auto rifles.
oh boy... The charge up time of the Rail Rifle in fact is so very significant that the Rail Rifle will NEVER be able to catch up on damage output compared to the AR! Here is a spreadsheet I made a while ago: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkgH4oyiFeUAdFpjQW0wRExKazF6empxY0R2Rm9iV3c&usp=sharing#gid=0Including not only DPS but also stats like 'damage after 1 second' so you can see that the Rail Rifles charge up time is far from "minimal". The AR will probably still deal the most DPS, not by far, but still. And it will also be the easiest weapon to use because it's full-auto and has no other limiting factors other but its low range.
^ Good number crafter.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier Specialist
Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
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Nova Knife
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
2118
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Posted - 2013.11.15 05:35:00 -
[33] - Quote
Keri Starlight wrote:Nova Knife wrote: Also, FYI the stats for the rr and cr have changed since being posted. So, people should poke wolfman and remnant to get thise and the updated vehicke changes before going into doomsday mode.
What!? So why don't we have the actual stats? Is this a joke? Can you provide us the real stats, Knife?
I can't, because I don't have them either. All I know is that the stats for the weapons have been adjusted based on feedback. In the case of weapons, the phrase "toned down" was used.
So have vehicle stats apparently, but we're still waiting on Remnant to have time to get us those, as well. No idea what changed or in what way, though.
This is something we're constantly working on, this communication thing. *shrug* |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
10256
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Posted - 2013.11.15 05:48:00 -
[34] - Quote
I feel the rail rifle may be good for just close range suppressionn with its kick and dispersion hopefully to be an issue.
The combat rifle is going to suffer from constant reload and down time it empties out so damn fast from the looks of it. Accuracy and overshooting could be a real issue for the gun as well.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier Specialist
Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
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Ryme Intrinseca
Seraphim Auxiliaries
207
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Posted - 2013.11.15 08:00:00 -
[35] - Quote
JDEZ09 wrote:Jebus McKing wrote:The dark cloud wrote: The spool up time is only at the beginning of the fully auto fire and its so minimal that it doesnt matter. Ive didnt uncluded the burst variants and only mentioned the DPS for the fully auto rifles.
oh boy... The charge up time of the Rail Rifle in fact is so very significant that the Rail Rifle will NEVER be able to catch up on damage output compared to the AR! Here is a spreadsheet I made a while ago: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkgH4oyiFeUAdFpjQW0wRExKazF6empxY0R2Rm9iV3c&usp=sharing#gid=0Including not only DPS but also stats like 'damage after 1 second' so you can see that the Rail Rifles charge up time is far from "minimal". The AR will probably still deal the most DPS, not by far, but still. And it will also be the easiest weapon to use because it's full-auto and has no other limiting factors other but its low range. This is a fantastic spreadsheat bro. I appreciate this because CCPs data sheet gave me a headache. My concern is the hoebaggers that use modded controllers. Imagine a minmatar rifle with higher damage than the full-auto variant.. still shooting at full-auto speeds because they would allow it to be possible. Once they calculate the required trigger intervals to maintain that high dps. This is also reflected across the board with similar weapons. The tac AR got double nerfed.. but still the imperial scrabler rifle is immaculate for an Amarr assault that cheats like this. It should not be possible. I, for one, will NOT exploit these flaws and people who do should be banned from the game. The tac AR glory days were ended abruptly and swiftly because of the RPM exploit, why not prep that accross the board to ensure balance? This.
All semi-automatic and burst small arms should be balanced on the assumption that they will be used with turbo controllers. Unfortunately that's the only way to be sure cheaters can't get unfair advantages. The standard versions of the SCR and CR need the RoF dialled back from present/advertised levels so they don't dominate when used with a turbo controller. When will CCP start to learn from their previous mistakes? |
Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder.
728
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Posted - 2013.11.15 08:22:00 -
[36] - Quote
The Allotek Burst just got fixed in 1.6 (I pulled it out day 1 since I knew hit detection updates were being implemented again). The Gallente burst is not quite as good as it was in closed beta or Chromosome, but it IS worth using again since it has a slight range advantage over the standard and the bullets all actually REGISTER now.
That being said, the Allotek was my favorite rifle in Chromosome. Now they are giving me a higher ROF burst with better fitting requirements that will be easier to fit on my Minmatar medium suit for a slight damage drop? All I can say is BRING IT ON!
I'm sure the Minmatar rifles will all have significant recoil if they follow the same standards as the SMG and the HMG, but the full auto version will likely also fill that LMG gap that so many have asked for for the last year+. I don't care how underpowered it is, I'm ALL OVER that Combat Rifle! I'll MAKE it OP!
(GÇó_GÇó)
( GÇó_GÇó)>GîÉGûá-Gûá It's time CCP....
(GîÉGûá_Gûá) Increase TTK back to the way it was before....
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Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
212
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Posted - 2013.11.15 08:42:00 -
[37] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:I said it before and I'll say it again "DPS is the ugliest word in Dust"
And before you say anything I know it's technically 3 words.
There are more factors at work here. If it were raw numbers then I would never get a kill using STD gear and I would never be killed by someone if I'm using a higher tier weapon.
I think the weapons that will become the most used will be the Scrambler and CR, most likely the assault variants.
Note that I did not say best, just what will most likely be used more often.
I agree the Scrambler especially the Assault variant will be quite popular as well as the ACR the Assault Scrambler rifle basicly has the same Damage output per second but a much higher damage per clip and range.
The overheating doesn't matter I use the CRD-9 and till now it never overheated (and there is still the glitch to by pass overheat).
The same is basicly true for ACR and the ACR will have similar accuracy to the AR as there is a sharpshooter skill for that weapon. Regarding the Burst variant ist difficult to rate in theory the DPS output is insane but we have to see whats the delay between bursts...
The Rail Rifle will be mostly a severe problem for Laser Rifle users as it makes the LR pretty obsolete. |
Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
212
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Posted - 2013.11.15 08:51:00 -
[38] - Quote
Jebus McKing wrote:The dark cloud wrote: The spool up time is only at the beginning of the fully auto fire and its so minimal that it doesnt matter. Ive didnt uncluded the burst variants and only mentioned the DPS for the fully auto rifles.
oh boy... The charge up time of the Rail Rifle in fact is so very significant that the Rail Rifle will NEVER be able to catch up on damage output compared to the AR! Here is a spreadsheet I made a while ago: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkgH4oyiFeUAdFpjQW0wRExKazF6empxY0R2Rm9iV3c&usp=sharing#gid=0Including not only DPS but also stats like 'damage after 1 second' so you can see that the Rail Rifles charge up time is far from "minimal". The AR will probably still deal the most DPS, not by far, but still. And it will also be the easiest weapon to use because it's full-auto and has no other limiting factors other but its low range.
You are right technically the gallente AR deals the most DPS but thats on paper. Compared to Assault Scrambler Rifle it gets a difference of 2! DPS compared to the Assault Combamt Rifle of 6. BUT both weapons have bigger clips and more Range its highly quistionable that the small DPS advantage will balance that out. |
Ryme Intrinseca
Seraphim Auxiliaries
208
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Posted - 2013.11.15 11:48:00 -
[39] - Quote
Korvin Lomont wrote:Jebus McKing wrote:The dark cloud wrote: The spool up time is only at the beginning of the fully auto fire and its so minimal that it doesnt matter. Ive didnt uncluded the burst variants and only mentioned the DPS for the fully auto rifles.
oh boy... The charge up time of the Rail Rifle in fact is so very significant that the Rail Rifle will NEVER be able to catch up on damage output compared to the AR! Here is a spreadsheet I made a while ago: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkgH4oyiFeUAdFpjQW0wRExKazF6empxY0R2Rm9iV3c&usp=sharing#gid=0Including not only DPS but also stats like 'damage after 1 second' so you can see that the Rail Rifles charge up time is far from "minimal". The AR will probably still deal the most DPS, not by far, but still. And it will also be the easiest weapon to use because it's full-auto and has no other limiting factors other but its low range. You are right technically the gallente AR deals the most DPS but thats on paper. Compared to Assault Scrambler Rifle it gets a difference of 2! DPS compared to the Assault Combamt Rifle of 6. BUT both weapons have bigger clips and more Range its highly quistionable that the small DPS advantage will balance that out. You have a point about the ASCR. However, while the ACR has a larger clip, each bullet does much less damage, so the ACR has much less damage available in each clip (see my numbers in the first post on this page). That's a massive drawback in my book. For instance, against a heavy with a couple of plates you'd have to land every shot to take him down in one clip, whereas an AR can afford to miss a third of its shots. (This is all based on the numbers CCP have published thus far.) |
Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
213
|
Posted - 2013.11.15 12:16:00 -
[40] - Quote
Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Korvin Lomont wrote:Jebus McKing wrote:The dark cloud wrote: The spool up time is only at the beginning of the fully auto fire and its so minimal that it doesnt matter. Ive didnt uncluded the burst variants and only mentioned the DPS for the fully auto rifles.
oh boy... The charge up time of the Rail Rifle in fact is so very significant that the Rail Rifle will NEVER be able to catch up on damage output compared to the AR! Here is a spreadsheet I made a while ago: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkgH4oyiFeUAdFpjQW0wRExKazF6empxY0R2Rm9iV3c&usp=sharing#gid=0Including not only DPS but also stats like 'damage after 1 second' so you can see that the Rail Rifles charge up time is far from "minimal". The AR will probably still deal the most DPS, not by far, but still. And it will also be the easiest weapon to use because it's full-auto and has no other limiting factors other but its low range. You are right technically the gallente AR deals the most DPS but thats on paper. Compared to Assault Scrambler Rifle it gets a difference of 2! DPS compared to the Assault Combamt Rifle of 6. BUT both weapons have bigger clips and more Range its highly quistionable that the small DPS advantage will balance that out. You have a point about the ASCR. However, while the ACR has a larger clip, each bullet does much less damage, so the ACR has much less damage available in each clip (see my numbers in the first post on this page). That's a massive drawback in my book. For instance, against a heavy with a couple of plates you'd have to land every shot to take him down in one clip, whereas an AR can afford to miss a third of its shots. (This is all based on the numbers CCP have published thus far.)
You are right about the Clip per Damage on the ACR but if you compare them the ACR still gets roughly 15% more Range and has only something around 1.5% DPS less and is able to deal the full amount of Damage more quickly leaving less time to reach cover or to back up.
So in general I would say the ACR will beat the AR anytime as long as you do not encounter an armor tanked heavy. And the AsCR will most likely beat the AR even under that circumstances.
Given the fact that the GAL Ar should be better in CQC I think CCP has failed with the new weapons regarding the roles each of them should have. |
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