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Elitist Squads vs PUGs are game breaking.

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Michael Hyperthraz DUST University Ivy League 4	Posted - 2013.11.13 13:27:00 - [1] - Quote So i started to play this game again around two weeks ago. And all i can say is that Ambush mode is unplayable because of 24/7 elitist squads (Rainbow Effect etc). You guys are too good, there is no fun in that ...not at all. There have to be some solution to that otherwise pepole will quit like my friend did few days ago because of that. It is a game breaking issue, i can deal with all bugs, OP weapons and dropsuits but this is simply too much. There should be some kind of special battles for you people, maybe something like ranked battles with better rewards for victory and lower/none for defeat so the best can play vs the best without completely breaking the game for newbies and casual players. Playing against you is no fun, it is not challenging (dying in less than a second every time). This is the only thing that will destroy this game, nothing else just this.
Kal Kronos L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 100	Posted - 2013.11.13 13:34:00 - [2] - Quote If they played against better people they wouldn't do as well, the corps with the "elite" join requirements attract a certain kind of player. This player is not having fun unless they are raping less skilled players, sure they'll go to the suggested playlist for a few matches but eventually they'll be back in pubs losing isk to boost the only stat that matters to them. This might keep the truly good players out though, as they can beat almost anyone. We really just need a match maker that balances teams based on squads. Dedicated redline sniper, tower forger, nade spammer, protostomper, and mass driver.
Michael Hyperthraz DUST University Ivy League 4	Posted - 2013.11.13 13:53:00 - [3] - Quote So they would join less rewarded battles just to own people badly ?. Gaming is supposed to be challenging at least in my opinion, and this is ultra easy mode. How about unranked battles where WP and KD ratio dont count, would they join it too ?. I prefer to have a choice, so automated match maker is kinda bad idea for me.
norttheantiv D3LTA FORC3 56	Posted - 2013.11.13 14:27:00 - [4] - Quote Red lines and stomps are boring for both sides, but it's that or don't play. It's not any sides fault. If there were more options then this would not happen. It also has to be remembered that all those people in basic suits are just in the way between you and the other proto players. If rainbow are a problem switch to the US servers, more variety there. But you will have to realise that you will never stomp if you can't take them down. If you don't relish the challenge in taking them down then you should consider a different game, the imbalance is part of the reason this game is so interesting Winner EU Squad Cup Go Go Power Rangers!
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe PC RISE of LEGION 1916	Posted - 2013.11.13 14:32:00 - [5] - Quote It would be nice if some of the better squads would take it to FW. But to be quite honest it's time for these solo NPC guys to find a corp and step up their game. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Sleepy Zan Xer Cloud Consortium 2796	Posted - 2013.11.13 14:33:00 - [6] - Quote pugs are already OP with their adorable pudgy little faces and there cute waggy tails. Quick, no, hard... I got all your scopes here ... and for a limited time only you can get the 360 edition.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe PC RISE of LEGION 1916	Posted - 2013.11.13 14:37:00 - [7] - Quote Kal Kronos wrote: If they played against better people they wouldn't do as well, the corps with the "elite" join requirements attract a certain kind of player. This player is not having fun unless they are raping less skilled players, sure they'll go to the suggested playlist for a few matches but eventually they'll be back in pubs losing isk to boost the only stat that matters to them. This might keep the truly good players out though, as they can beat almost anyone. We really just need a match maker that balances teams based on squads. I don't buy this at all. We put together some pretty good squads and run pubs for training and I get tired of weak fights. The matchmaking sucks for everyone. I'm ready for a solo play only standard/militia gear battle mode to remove all these lone wolf ISK grinding people from pub matches. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Import Beercase Beer For Evil Mercs 52	Posted - 2013.11.13 14:37:00 - [8] - Quote We went for factional war for this same reason. "If at first you don't succeed, mccdiving is not for you." Take me drunk, I'm home
Hellkeizer The Avutora Complex 192	Posted - 2013.11.13 14:49:00 - [9] - Quote It's like what my friend said, "This game is fun, when you don't get stomped." Waiting on PvE Balancing without core content is a fail "Don't chu go disrespecting coconut water!" Chakra Attack
KingBabar The Rainbow Effect 1376	Posted - 2013.11.13 14:50:00 - [10] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: It would be nice if some of the better squads would take it to FW. But to be quite honest it's time for these solo NPC guys to find a corp and step up their game. We've done, or at least the squad I was in played FW, Skirmish and Domination non stop for the last 2-3 days, with the occational ambush game thrown in the mix. It didn't help. At least we tried. If anything, it were mostly even a much harder stomp than it is normally in ambush. 2-3 minutes of fighting and then a complete redline, most of the time. And thats why many of us don't like playing anything but ambush, where you can at least chase down the rest of the clones and finish the game. The opposition is generally better in ambush, and we meet squads from GAC, WTF etc which makes us sharpen up and play tighter, these are the fun games. IMO this all boils down to really bad matchmaking. Why is there always 2 full squads on one team and mostly random players on the other? If the matchmaker could to a much larger degree put one proto squad on each team we'd at least avoid the thoughest brunt of the stomping. We're quite used to games where we kill the 80 clones needed for winning and we lose perhaps 5 for our team, in some cases we've also gone 80-0, its just super silly and doesn't belong in any shooter... Teamwork is OP.... http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/KingBabar/media/BannerKingbabarcopy.png.html

Zatara Rought Imperfects 1659	Posted - 2013.11.13 14:51:00 - [11] - Quote Yeah...I love domination...but it's no fun to play when you go in solo or duo and STB brings in 2 maddy's and lays down 20 links around the objective before I get my lav in that subsequently in blown up..I guess some people like camping the redline more than others.....Personally I find it much more fun to either play in standard gear or run solo because 99% of the time I get a squad it inevitably becomes a stomp..even in standard gear. That's Master nader to you scrub. Skype me @ Zatara.Rought CCP's Motto: "SoonGäó"
Justicar Karnellia Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 125	Posted - 2013.11.13 14:56:00 - [12] - Quote I do feel your frustration. As a career lone wolf, I have come up against those guys and many others. First off, don't be afraid to leave a battle if you're not having fun, especially if within 20 seconds you're dying repeatedly or if you're in skirmish mode you're redlined. I'm assuming like most people you play Dust 514 because it's fun, so if you're not having fun - leave! This might be joining another game mode temporarily or just trying another ambush match. You could even try another server. Second, grouping up with others is always helpful, even with no mic - surprisingly, even if you don't join a corp, you will be active in many many chat channels with lots of people that can fight, and you can form groups with these and give others a run for their money. Third - don't be afraid to fight. You'll find individually you can actually give these corps a run for their money - I have come up against rainbow effect, but they weren't notable for me in any way apart from the fact they were organised. When I got them one on one, I could take them down no problems, it's just that in situations like these, proto-squads usually form blobs and move around in a structured way, so you're rarely fighting one individual guy at a time... you're fighitng 3 guys at one time, which of course is difficult. I've had more than one fight where I come up against proto blobs, take down one or two guys - die then do it again... at the end of the match - I sometimes get an invite to join their corp or even a "GG" - and for the less mature corps a hate-mail. I'd say stick with the game, it needs new blood and unfortunately it can ruin your evening - but if you're having fun, dont' be afraid to die.
Kasote Denzara A Vulture 756	Posted - 2013.11.13 14:58:00 - [13] - Quote Justicar Karnellia wrote: I'd say stick with the game, it needs new blood and unfortunately it can ruin your evening - but if you're having fun, dont' be afraid to die. I second this. I'll also add that you shouldn't be afraid to hug your enemy. ... After pulling out a Core Locus Grenade. If you think Plasma Rifles take skill to use and are fine as they are, you are the problem.
norttheantiv D3LTA FORC3 56	Posted - 2013.11.13 15:03:00 - [14] - Quote Kasote Denzara wrote: Justicar Karnellia wrote: I'd say stick with the game, it needs new blood and unfortunately it can ruin your evening - but if you're having fun, dont' be afraid to die. I second this. I'll also add that you shouldn't be afraid to hug your enemy. ... After pulling out a Core Locus Grenade. I loled Winner EU Squad Cup Go Go Power Rangers!
richiesutie 2 The Rainbow Effect 505	Posted - 2013.11.13 17:31:00 - [15] - Quote norttheantiv wrote: Kasote Denzara wrote: Justicar Karnellia wrote: I'd say stick with the game, it needs new blood and unfortunately it can ruin your evening - but if you're having fun, dont' be afraid to die. I second this. I'll also add that you shouldn't be afraid to hug your enemy. ... After pulling out a Core Locus Grenade. I loled Me too :D .....At the OP too compilation of Patch/build notes Check it out! :)
Michael Hyperthraz DUST University Ivy League 4	Posted - 2013.11.13 18:54:00 - [16] - Quote Im not anywhere near to quit dont worry . Its nice to see that we all understand that matchmaking is kinda broken now. Dont get me wrong, i like the game and i like challenges. I also think that being stomped from time to time is fine ... ...but i played really hard and a lot in the past few days (i got the cap yesterday UFF). I won a few, also few was really ballanced, but the rest and i mean like 80% of them was pure 70-80 to 0. Maybe i was just extremely unlucky, plus state of Smart Deploy now makes it even worse.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe PC RISE of LEGION 1922	Posted - 2013.11.13 19:41:00 - [17] - Quote KingBabar wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: It would be nice if some of the better squads would take it to FW. But to be quite honest it's time for these solo NPC guys to find a corp and step up their game. We've done, or at least the squad I was in played FW, Skirmish and Domination non stop for the last 2-3 days, with the occational ambush game thrown in the mix. It didn't help. At least we tried. If anything, it were mostly even a much harder stomp than it is normally in ambush. 2-3 minutes of fighting and then a complete redline, most of the time. And thats why many of us don't like playing anything but ambush, where you can at least chase down the rest of the clones and finish the game. The opposition is generally better in ambush, and we meet squads from GAC, WTF etc which makes us sharpen up and play tighter, these are the fun games. IMO this all boils down to really bad matchmaking. Why is there always 2 full squads on one team and mostly random players on the other? If the matchmaker could to a much larger degree put one proto squad on each team we'd at least avoid the thoughest brunt of the stomping. We're quite used to games where we kill the 80 clones needed for winning and we lose perhaps 5 for our team, in some cases we've also gone 80-0, its just super silly and doesn't belong in any shooter... Teamwork is OP.... I agree, FW is pretty much garbage at the moment. Pretty much any skirmish is garbage 90% of the time. Doms are garbage at least that much. There just isn't any incentive for the randoms to fight and even if the random solo players wanted to fight, most of them can't because they aren't any good and solo. I don't know what the answer is. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Luk Manag of Terror TRE GAFFEL 162	Posted - 2013.11.13 19:53:00 - [18] - Quote The answer is to bring back Skirmish 1.0. An attack that has no chance of winning will fail to take the first control points. The parameters can be adjusted to favor the defenders, extra hitpoints for the null cannons will prevent random tank snipers from soloing the points, and the base could offer a small dedicated group of randoms a few extra chokepoints to even up the odds vs organized squads. Only teams that are roughly even will ever go into a long match, and when there is a terrible imbalance, the match will end mercifully(quickly).
Meeko Fent Xer Cloud Consortium 1516	Posted - 2013.11.13 20:07:00 - [19] - Quote Hellkeizer wrote: It's like what my friend said, "This game is fun, when you don't get stomped." Exactly. For the State! For Caldari FW join Caldari Hierarchy
Meeko Fent Xer Cloud Consortium 1516	Posted - 2013.11.13 20:08:00 - [20] - Quote Luk Manag wrote: The answer is to bring back Skirmish 1.0. An attack that has no chance of winning will fail to take the first control points. The parameters can be adjusted to favor the defenders, extra hitpoints for the null cannons will prevent random tank snipers from soloing the points, and the base could offer a small dedicated group of randoms a few extra chokepoints to even up the odds vs organized squads. Only teams that are roughly even will ever go into a long match, and when there is a terrible imbalance, the match will end mercifully(quickly). Good point. For the State! For Caldari FW join Caldari Hierarchy

Papa Chanoli WarRavens League of Infamy 93	Posted - 2013.11.13 20:47:00 - [21] - Quote I would like to see gear tiered matches where standard/militia fights the same, advanced goes against advanced and proto goes vs proto. The highest level piece of equipment anywhere on you if you're soloing or in your squad if you're squaded up should be the determiner, so that if you wear one piece of proto, you go up against proto, but if you're all standard gear you go up against no higher than standard gear. I believe that would make the game more fun and more competitive, and matchmaking would be simple. A lot of oir friendly PC training battles these days have low end metalevel requirements, and the battles are a blast at meta level 2 or lower. As long as people stick to the rules it works great and if someone cheats you either see it after the kill or the gear shows up in salvage. That's a perfect example of a very simple solution. I think it might be the game saver CCP needs in the short term.
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe PC RISE of LEGION 926	Posted - 2013.11.13 21:00:00 - [22] - Quote I don't know about gear tierd matches to be honest. I used to think this would work but after running a few games in all starter fits and still kicking some tail I'm starting to feel that the SP imbalances inherent in the game make gear less of a determining factor than some would have you believe. Yea sure proto gear makes you more effective but you can still solo a player in proto gear in a starter fit thanks to the new hit detection. In the world of DUST/ The words are all in haiku/ Tweets are just too long
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe PC RISE of LEGION 926	Posted - 2013.11.13 21:03:00 - [23] - Quote I think a better solution would be to set rewards based upon the type of gear you are wearing vs the type of gear you're fighting against. Proto players, fighting a group of non proto players would see their sp and isk rewards severly reduced. This would need to be paired with matches which are them selves tiered to provide a much increased risk reward mechanic. It seems like the new FW is a step towards doing this but CCP needs to add in an additional tier between new FW and the broken PC battles to really round out this system. Sorry for the lack of detail but I'm on my lunch break so I'm having to keep my posting brief. In the world of DUST/ The words are all in haiku/ Tweets are just too long
Soldiersaint Deepspace Digital 584	Posted - 2013.11.13 21:43:00 - [24] - Quote Michael Hyperthraz wrote: So they would join less rewarded battles just to own people badly ?. Gaming is supposed to be challenging at least in my opinion, and this is ultra easy mode. How about unranked battles where WP and KD ratio dont count, or some kind of casual battles accesible from/to X amount of KD ratio. I prefer to have a choice, so automated match maker is kinda bad idea for me. Life itself is nothing but a frustrating challenge. When i play videogames win or lose its always for 100% fun. Challenges and stats are worthless to me. That being said whenever i join a match and i see i have a good group i pull out my best gear because i know we are going to destroy. Thats how multiplayer works. All this fairplay and be nice stuff is just very silly. If your on the enemy team i could care less about how you feel and what you think. Your an enemy thats all that matters. You can always leave the battle if your not up to it. But hey this just my opinion.
Kira Lannister Ancient Exiles. 1922	Posted - 2013.11.13 22:04:00 - [25] - Quote We all get those matches where you question yourself as a mercenary. :] That's when you grab a forge gun. "The Ancient Templars will guard fearlessly the people, the land and the heavens of the empire." Book of Exiles 1:3
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 467	Posted - 2013.11.13 22:19:00 - [26] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Kal Kronos wrote: If they played against better people they wouldn't do as well, the corps with the "elite" join requirements attract a certain kind of player. This player is not having fun unless they are raping less skilled players, sure they'll go to the suggested playlist for a few matches but eventually they'll be back in pubs losing isk to boost the only stat that matters to them. This might keep the truly good players out though, as they can beat almost anyone. We really just need a match maker that balances teams based on squads. I don't buy this at all. We put together some pretty good squads and run pubs for training and I get tired of weak fights. The matchmaking sucks for everyone. I'm ready for a solo play only standard/militia gear battle mode to remove all these lone wolf ISK grinding people from pub matches. I wish I had PvE for when I'm feeling anti-social and just want to mindlessly grind for ISK and SP, but we don't so its pub matches or FW. So IMO this issue is an area where PvE can possibly make the game better for even those that never want to shoot at AI drones. Most of us grinders will be there for grinding and only in PvP matches when we really want to fight.
richiesutie 2 The Rainbow Effect 506	Posted - 2013.11.13 22:20:00 - [27] - Quote Kira Lannister wrote: We all get those matches where you question yourself as a mercenary. :] That's when you grab a forge gun. GRRRRR I HATE THE FORGE GUN. compilation of Patch/build notes Check it out! :)
Montezumas Revenge the majestic space duck 20	Posted - 2013.11.13 22:24:00 - [28] - Quote Justicar Karnellia wrote: Third - don't be afraid to fight. You'll find individually you can actually give these corps a run for their money - I have come up against rainbow effect, but they weren't notable for me in any way apart from the fact they were organised. When I got them one on one, I could take them down no problems, it's just that in situations like these, proto-squads usually form blobs and move around in a structured way, so you're rarely fighting one individual guy at a time... you're fighitng 3 guys at one time, which of course is difficult. I've had more than one fight where I come up against proto blobs, take down one or two guys - die then do it again... at the end of the match - I sometimes get an invite to join their corp or even a "GG" - and for the less mature corps a hate-mail. I'd say stick with the game, it needs new blood and unfortunately it can ruin your evening - but if you're having fun, dont' be afraid to die. This so much.
calvin b Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 922	Posted - 2013.11.13 22:27:00 - [29] - Quote I love battles that go down to the last few clones or ticks on the MCC. That is why I stay away from Ambush. Do not eat the yellow snow
Justicar Karnellia Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 131	Posted - 2013.11.15 10:53:00 - [30] - Quote calvin b wrote: I love battles that go down to the last few clones or ticks on the MCC. That is why I stay away from Ambush. agreed, my most exciting battles are when it's "bunch of randoms" vs "bunch of randoms".... the fight usually goes down to the wire, in skirmish or domination the points are switching back and forth regularly, there is a lot of movement, and the clone count is almost to 0 when someone wins and both MCC's are near destruction - these battles really are the ones when I finish and I'm like "YEAH!" or "DAMN!" but I have a great feeling that I just experienced what the battles in Dust should always be like... On the other hand, I always get that "oh no" feeling inside when I join a match and my team caps all the points in about 30 seconds.. and then they start shooting and dropping orbitals at the unlucky team on the other side... this is no fun, there is little action, little war point rewards.... same can be said if you're on the losing side too.

JerechD Diaboli Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 29	Posted - 2013.11.15 11:27:00 - [31] - Quote I feel your pain. Here's a sample of my last two games. Its the reason why I'm giving Dust a month or two break, because I'll be running around on the Battlefield 4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4J7mJJuNPRQ
Michael Arck Anubis Prime Syndicate 1843	Posted - 2013.11.15 11:31:00 - [32] - Quote Maybe its wishful thinking, but what if the players just banded together and fought against the protos? What if they concentrated fire on a prototype suit instead of waiting for the player to die so they can get the kill? There must be something that we can do to combat this in the meantime. I really feel CCP won't change it due to the reputation of New Eden. If we all stand together, they can't beat us all. Pubstomping occurs often because we don't band together in-game.
calvin b Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 949	Posted - 2013.11.15 12:53:00 - [33] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: Maybe its wishful thinking, but what if the players just banded together and fought against the protos? What if they concentrated fire on a prototype suit instead of waiting for the player to die so they can get the kill? There must be something that we can do to combat this in the meantime. I really feel CCP won't change it due to the reputation of New Eden. If we all stand together, they can't beat us all. Pubstomping occurs often because we don't band together in-game. So true. I have tried to stick up for the less than experienced player and have payed dearly for it, to the point I look out for myself most of the time now. What do I mean by this, if we are getting beaten by some proto's I used to switch to proto and hold the line, but what made me stop was the fact blueberries will watch you fight it out with another proto and when you died they would then attack to steal the kill. If I win they follow me or wait for the next person to attack, so they can watch me die and then they try and steal the kill. Same way with hacking an objective, two to three standing there as you hack, let red shoot you in the back. They kill the red so they can steal the hack. This game is full of immature trolls and why should I bust my A** for some random if I am not going to get the help in return. If I know you or I have played with you I will help and do whatever I can for you. For the random, I will help all I can just have my back as I have yours. Do not eat the yellow snow
Karl Marx II Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2013.11.15 13:00:00 - [34] - Quote We have complained about this for the past 6 months and I had originally thought that the new rebuilt matchmaker would deal with the issue .. it hasn't .. it's actually made it worse and nothing is being done about it in 1.7/1.8 either, it seems that CCP will continue to ignore the problem. We have all read and seen countless solutions banded around these forums and some of them have been great yet they continue to be overlooked by CCP so if you really want this issue looked at please join the Anti-Protostomping Protest that takes place every wednesday after reset .. an entire day of AFKing in the MCC .. read more in the sig link below Join the Revolution
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 725	Posted - 2013.11.15 13:08:00 - [35] - Quote norttheantiv wrote: Red lines and stomps are boring for both sides, but it's that or don't play. It's not any sides fault. If there were more options then this would not happen. It also has to be remembered that all those people in basic suits are just in the way between you and the other proto players. If rainbow are a problem switch to the US servers, more variety there. But you will have to realise that you will never stomp if you can't take them down. If you don't relish the challenge in taking them down then you should consider a different game, the imbalance is part of the reason this game is so interesting Lol, it's a video game. People will quit and move along and your "interesting" game will be a laughable little crap lobby shooter. Oh wait, it already is. If the pen is mightier than the sword, in a duel I'll let you have the pen! -Steven Wright
LudiKure ninda Black Phoenix Mercenaries 45	Posted - 2013.11.15 13:27:00 - [36] - Quote last 4,5 weeks im being protostomped every day,and its not fun at all,many of my frends quit dust. Its really frustrating to hawe 3-15 score every game. But I found a way to deal with this problem. Before I get into game I look at the player list,and if I see this tryhard,proto gay sqads I eather go snipin,or just leave batlle. Simple as that.
Humble Seeker PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 66	Posted - 2013.11.15 15:21:00 - [37] - Quote Import Beercase wrote: We went for factional war for this same reason. Kind of similar, but yeah. Mostly the regulars, like Praetorians such as myself for Amarr FW, New Age Outlaws for Minmatar, Dead Six Initiative for Caldari, etc. Toss in a few randoms to fill the gaps, and you have FW. "Surround yourself with the faithful, Stand together, for there is no strength like it under the heavens."
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe PC RISE of LEGION 1931	Posted - 2013.11.15 15:48:00 - [38] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: Maybe its wishful thinking, but what if the players just banded together and fought against the protos? What if they concentrated fire on a prototype suit instead of waiting for the player to die so they can get the kill? There must be something that we can do to combat this in the meantime. I really feel CCP won't change it due to the reputation of New Eden. If we all stand together, they can't beat us all. Pubstomping occurs often because we don't band together in-game. There is an option. Those 10 to 16 players in a match that aren't in a squad can squad up in battle. Perhaps one of those squad leaders even knows how to set a defend order that the rest of the squad sticks to. Hell will probably freeze over before this happens though. Really, lets start putting the fault on the lazy players who repeatedly join battles solo to grind out matches faster. People that don't want to take the few minutes necessary to squad up and use teamwork. This is what is hurting the game. Let's not sugarcoat it. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Funkmaster Whale Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1118	Posted - 2013.11.15 15:57:00 - [39] - Quote It's just the nature of the beast, man. It's partially CCP's fault for lack of proper matchmaking, partially the game's fault with its skill progression system, and partially your fault for not joining up with a squad and coordinating efforts. There's no way to 100% pinpoint this problem and go "yeah, this'll fix the problem" because there will always exist people who are either better or much, much better than you. Again, it's just the nature of the beast. You really just have to learn to adapt to the situations you're presented. I'm a pretty good player (9.2 K/D) but even I know realize when there's no hope of taking on a squaded, coordinated team. "Why do we fall sir? So that we can learn to pick ourselves up." -Alfred Pennyworth Let me play you the song of my people!
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe PC RISE of LEGION 1932	Posted - 2013.11.15 16:10:00 - [40] - Quote Funkmaster Whale wrote: It's just the nature of the beast, man. It's partially CCP's fault for lack of proper matchmaking, partially the game's fault with its skill progression system, and partially your fault for not joining up with a squad and coordinating efforts. There's no way to 100% pinpoint this problem and go "yeah, this'll fix the problem" because there will always exist people who are either better or much, much better than you. Again, it's just the nature of the beast. You really just have to learn to adapt to the situations you're presented. I'm a pretty good player (9.2 K/D) but even I know realize when there's no hope of taking on a squaded, coordinated team. "Why do we fall sir? So that we can learn to pick ourselves up." -Alfred Pennyworth Well I'm not sure if I'll ever be an FPS player that can post a 9+ KDR, but I can tell you that it didn't take me long back in closed beta to see that I needed to be in a corp. And not being an elite FPS player I know that I can't expect to beast it up all the time running solo in matches. It also didn't take me long to see that the first corp I joined in closed beta (Space Fish Empire) was garbage and I needed to find some better players to play with. My point being that these guys aren't adapting. They want things handed to them. Dudes that run solo and go 0-10 I have no sympathy for. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.

Karl Marx II Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2013.11.15 16:26:00 - [41] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Funkmaster Whale wrote: It's just the nature of the beast, man. It's partially CCP's fault for lack of proper matchmaking, partially the game's fault with its skill progression system, and partially your fault for not joining up with a squad and coordinating efforts. There's no way to 100% pinpoint this problem and go "yeah, this'll fix the problem" because there will always exist people who are either better or much, much better than you. Again, it's just the nature of the beast. You really just have to learn to adapt to the situations you're presented. I'm a pretty good player (9.2 K/D) but even I know realize when there's no hope of taking on a squaded, coordinated team. "Why do we fall sir? So that we can learn to pick ourselves up." -Alfred Pennyworth Well I'm not sure if I'll ever be an FPS player that can post a 9+ KDR, but I can tell you that it didn't take me long back in closed beta to see that I needed to be in a corp. And not being an elite FPS player I know that I can't expect to beast it up all the time running solo in matches. It also didn't take me long to see that the first corp I joined in closed beta (Space Fish Empire) was garbage and I needed to find some better players to play with. My point being that these guys aren't adapting. They want things handed to them. Dudes that run solo and go 0-10 I have no sympathy for. Squads of guys in STD gear get crushed by squads of people in proto gear , you seem to be under the delusion that it's solo players complaining about the problem .. most of the people here complaining squad up and still get slaughtered by the protostompers ... The real frustration is that it's in every single game mode .. there is no where to go to get away from it and it is soul destroying to get crushed in nearly every game because you are constantly up against people with twice as much HP more damage speed stamina etc etc All people are looking for is 1 .. yes that's right .. 1 gamemode to get away from it and actually enjoy a balanced and fun game ... all the best games i've ever played have been close fought matches between squads of pl in ADV and STD gear ... Join the Revolution
Michael Hyperthraz DUST University Ivy League 9	Posted - 2013.11.15 17:33:00 - [42] - Quote So i did observed player list in every protostomping battle yesterday, and in most cases it was two OP squads vs tottaly random players.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. 318	Posted - 2013.11.15 17:43:00 - [43] - Quote Solo gameplay has never rewarded much in Dust but your own greed for potentially more kills The matchmaking system is interesting how they are trying to do it statistic based.. off numbers they deem relevant but.. Yea.. we all love Scotty don't we? For most of us we liked the war barge idea purely because there was an insinuation from CCP that it was time needed to fill the match and insure there was compatible competition on both sides and time for "lone wolf's" to find a squad within the match. Though they have made it less boring waiting on war barge between matches... it has eliminated a part we all accepted for the better. Not to mention if that giant table in the middle of the war barge actually displayed the map we where going to be playing on... then every second in the war barge would be worth it.
GeneralButtNaked ZionTCD Public Disorder. 546	Posted - 2013.11.15 17:45:00 - [44] - Quote Michael Hyperthraz wrote: So i did observed player list in every protostomping battle yesterday, and in most cases it was two OP squads vs tottaly random players. That is because of bad matchmaking. It is utterly useless right now. I see more matches with 2 squads of corps versus all NPC corps than I have ever seen anything else. Playing in a squad less than six almost guarantees that you get put into these types of matches all night long. I cannot honestly tell you the last time I saw a pub match with two full squads on both sides. The fact that the two stack happens all the time, but the double two stack almost never happens says that there is something fundamentally wrong with matchmaking. I believe that it is due to either a player count that is too low to provide matches, or a maximum launch time that is too short to perform good matches. Or a combination of the two. Worst of all, don't expect any major changes to this in the near future. If it is due to player count, it is only going to get worse, and if the matchmaker starts taking 7 or 8 minutes to put a good match together I doubt new players are going to be sticking around without the social aspect the long term players have developed. I can easily spend the search time having a conversation with my squadies, doing director work for my corp, sending mails to scrubs, etc. Most brand new players don't have that type of experience built into the game yet, and for them the long wait times to get a fair even match would be a major PITA. Mr. Hybrid Vayu
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe PC RISE of LEGION 1935	Posted - 2013.11.15 18:05:00 - [45] - Quote Michael Hyperthraz wrote: So i did observed player list in every protostomping battle yesterday, and in most cases it was two OP squads vs tottaly random players. We dont want anything handed to us. This a video game, and gaming should be enjoyable. There are many casual players with wives and jobs. We dont have a time to adapt, we can play in squads and so on but even this isnt helping. Getting protostomped almost every time is frustrating, and no casual will play it for long time. And this is what people will do, they will quit and population will get even worse than now. Is this what you want a small circlejerk elitist playerbase. Im 30 years old gaming vet and i saw plenty of mmo games almost died because of stuff like this. And for now, dust 514 is going in this direction. You have to understand, we dont want treat gaming like real life or second job. We want to enjoy it. We already have a frustrating stuff wich is called "real life", we dont need it in here too. This is why so many people already left this game. I will be the first to admit that it's a problem when it's a squad of Outer Heaven and a squad of OSG on one side when the other side is all randoms. Something is broken for this to happen over and over again. I'm guessing that the scotty problems resulted in them removing the matchmaking system they came up with altogether. What I am getting at in general is that the stompings wouldn't occur as often if people joined a corp, learned to play better, and joined matches with a group of players they are used to playing with. If your group gets stomped every match then you may need to find a different group. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe PC RISE of LEGION 1936	Posted - 2013.11.15 18:09:00 - [46] - Quote Karl Marx II wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Funkmaster Whale wrote: It's just the nature of the beast, man. It's partially CCP's fault for lack of proper matchmaking, partially the game's fault with its skill progression system, and partially your fault for not joining up with a squad and coordinating efforts. There's no way to 100% pinpoint this problem and go "yeah, this'll fix the problem" because there will always exist people who are either better or much, much better than you. Again, it's just the nature of the beast. You really just have to learn to adapt to the situations you're presented. I'm a pretty good player (9.2 K/D) but even I know realize when there's no hope of taking on a squaded, coordinated team. "Why do we fall sir? So that we can learn to pick ourselves up." -Alfred Pennyworth Well I'm not sure if I'll ever be an FPS player that can post a 9+ KDR, but I can tell you that it didn't take me long back in closed beta to see that I needed to be in a corp. And not being an elite FPS player I know that I can't expect to beast it up all the time running solo in matches. It also didn't take me long to see that the first corp I joined in closed beta (Space Fish Empire) was garbage and I needed to find some better players to play with. My point being that these guys aren't adapting. They want things handed to them. Dudes that run solo and go 0-10 I have no sympathy for. Squads of guys in STD gear get crushed by squads of people in proto gear , you seem to be under the delusion that it's solo players complaining about the problem .. most of the people here complaining squad up and still get slaughtered by the protostompers ... The real frustration is that it's in every single game mode .. there is no where to go to get away from it and it is soul destroying to get crushed in nearly every game because you are constantly up against people with twice as much HP more damage speed stamina etc etc All people are looking for is 1 .. yes that's right .. 1 gamemode to get away from it and actually enjoy a balanced and fun game ... all the best games i've ever played have been close fought matches between squads of pl in ADV and STD gear ... It would be nice for players to have a std/mil gear only mode to escape the hard core stompings. I'll give you that. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
GeneralButtNaked ZionTCD Public Disorder. 547	Posted - 2013.11.15 18:15:00 - [47] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: It would be nice for players to have a std/mil gear only mode to escape the hard core stompings. I'll give you that. That only provides the illusion of fairness. A PC squad from any of the major corps will drop six guys with AR prof 5 in a match and have a giggle fest as the noobs on the other side can't figure out how they are dying so fast. Prof 5 Toxin SMG is hilarious on any STD frame against other similar suits. Noobs would be better served to learn to be amatuer jihadis playing at the start of their career. Spec into RE's and grenades and bait proto bears in a MLT suit. Mr. Hybrid Vayu
CHIPMINT BUTTERCUP 147	Posted - 2013.11.15 18:16:00 - [48] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Karl Marx II wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Funkmaster Whale wrote: It's just the nature of the beast, man. It's partially CCP's fault for lack of proper matchmaking, partially the game's fault with its skill progression system, and partially your fault for not joining up with a squad and coordinating efforts. There's no way to 100% pinpoint this problem and go "yeah, this'll fix the problem" because there will always exist people who are either better or much, much better than you. Again, it's just the nature of the beast. You really just have to learn to adapt to the situations you're presented. I'm a pretty good player (9.2 K/D) but even I know realize when there's no hope of taking on a squaded, coordinated team. "Why do we fall sir? So that we can learn to pick ourselves up." -Alfred Pennyworth Well I'm not sure if I'll ever be an FPS player that can post a 9+ KDR, but I can tell you that it didn't take me long back in closed beta to see that I needed to be in a corp. And not being an elite FPS player I know that I can't expect to beast it up all the time running solo in matches. It also didn't take me long to see that the first corp I joined in closed beta (Space Fish Empire) was garbage and I needed to find some better players to play with. My point being that these guys aren't adapting. They want things handed to them. Dudes that run solo and go 0-10 I have no sympathy for. Squads of guys in STD gear get crushed by squads of people in proto gear , you seem to be under the delusion that it's solo players complaining about the problem .. most of the people here complaining squad up and still get slaughtered by the protostompers ... The real frustration is that it's in every single game mode .. there is no where to go to get away from it and it is soul destroying to get crushed in nearly every game because you are constantly up against people with twice as much HP more damage speed stamina etc etc All people are looking for is 1 .. yes that's right .. 1 gamemode to get away from it and actually enjoy a balanced and fun game ... all the best games i've ever played have been close fought matches between squads of pl in ADV and STD gear ... It would be nice for players to have a std/mil gear only mode to escape the hard core stompings. I'll give you that. Splitting an already super low player base would not help the LOL matchmaking system. Protto Stomping is happening because no one is playing this game. DUST514 I love the dream but not the current product. Dusters - WhenGäó CCP - SoonGäó
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe PC RISE of LEGION 1936	Posted - 2013.11.15 18:21:00 - [49] - Quote GeneralButtNaked wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: It would be nice for players to have a std/mil gear only mode to escape the hard core stompings. I'll give you that. That only provides the illusion of fairness. A PC squad from any of the major corps will drop six guys with AR prof 5 in a match and have a giggle fest as the noobs on the other side can't figure out how they are dying so fast. Prof 5 Toxin SMG is hilarious on any STD frame against other similar suits. Noobs would be better served to learn to be amatuer jihadis playing at the start of their career. Spec into RE's and grenades and bait proto bears in a MLT suit. I hear you, but I would literally NEVER go into that game mode. I don't want to run STD gear. I have over 30 mil SP. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Tectonic Fusion 562	Posted - 2013.11.15 18:25:00 - [50] - Quote Yeah. I've seen mostly full squads of Moron Labe and Rainbow Effect in ambush though. I would like to be placed with other players who have 8-12 million SP so I can stomp them. Solo Player Squad status: Locked

Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 294	Posted - 2013.11.15 18:33:00 - [51] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Funkmaster Whale wrote: It's just the nature of the beast, man. It's partially CCP's fault for lack of proper matchmaking, partially the game's fault with its skill progression system, and partially your fault for not joining up with a squad and coordinating efforts. There's no way to 100% pinpoint this problem and go "yeah, this'll fix the problem" because there will always exist people who are either better or much, much better than you. Again, it's just the nature of the beast. You really just have to learn to adapt to the situations you're presented. I'm a pretty good player (9.2 K/D) but even I know realize when there's no hope of taking on a squaded, coordinated team. "Why do we fall sir? So that we can learn to pick ourselves up." -Alfred Pennyworth Well I'm not sure if I'll ever be an FPS player that can post a 9+ KDR, but I can tell you that it didn't take me long back in closed beta to see that I needed to be in a corp. And not being an elite FPS player I know that I can't expect to beast it up all the time running solo in matches. It also didn't take me long to see that the first corp I joined in closed beta (Space Fish Empire) was garbage and I needed to find some better players to play with. My point being that these guys aren't adapting. They want things handed to them. Dudes that run solo and go 0-10 I have no sympathy for. Funk and Thor are absolutely on the mark. It usually takes veteran players to help train and coach guys to be better. No real clean way to tier squads in matches with that simple fact. As they say Teamwork is OP. It is by design and intent that this is the single most significant factor in victory or individual performance. A good sqd in standard gear can give a random group of proto/advance guys all they can handle. Here is no tactic or weapon that can't be countered with teamwork. The only thing that counters a coordinated sqd/team is another one. Not sure how to fix pub stomping. If you did the long grind for proto and complex gear and have built up friends and allies overtime I don't know that the right answer is to tell you not to use it.
Michael Hyperthraz DUST University Ivy League 9	Posted - 2013.11.15 18:33:00 - [52] - Quote This game is supposed to attract newbies and casuals to be successful in the future. And right now its just pushing them away, can you imagine a casual dude who just finished his academy and BAM protostomping in most cases- He will quit. I have joined DUST University four days ago and im getting better and better. I play in squads for the most of the time and it is much more enyojable now, even when we loose. We didnt played Ambush mode yet, and i didnt asked why but i bet protostomping is the reason. Im staying just because i role play Minmatar Trader (station pvp aw yeah) in eve online since circa two years, and im hoping for a better "connection" between both worlds in the future. I would like to see this game to be successful like EVE online is.
Joel II X AHPA 154	Posted - 2013.11.15 18:34:00 - [53] - Quote I ran a test regarding proto players. The result was that half of them aren't even good. My team was getting proto stomped one match and I got mad being around 3 protos every time in my scout suit. So, I switched to my assault suit. My assault suit contains: Gallente Assault G-1 Duvolle AR 1 enhanced Damage Mod Scrambler Pistol 2 enhanced Armor plates 1 basic CPU Upgrade 1 basic nanohive I started going positive even against protos with this suit. I don't like using it because it's fairly expensive for me and it's slow as f**k.
Michael Hyperthraz DUST University Ivy League 9	Posted - 2013.11.15 18:47:00 - [54] - Quote I also think that splitting a playerbase to noobs and elites is a bad idea. This is EVE online world and we are supposed to have a choice. A bit better matchmaking system would be great, or like i said before ranked/unranked battles with more and less rewards so players could choose between "tiers" of difficulty. Something like empire, lowsec and null. Elitist would go to null to get the best rewards and play against better players, noobs and carebears(casuals) would mostly stay in empire. And joining null,going lowsec or going back to empire to own would be always our own choice, not a matchmaking automated system. Taking an idea of "choice" from us is even worse than protostomping.
Rafa 3ridebros The Rainbow Effect 2	Posted - 2013.12.02 16:56:00 - [55] - Quote Justicar Karnellia wrote: calvin b wrote: I love battles that go down to the last few clones or ticks on the MCC. That is why I stay away from Ambush. agreed, my most exciting battles are when it's "bunch of randoms" vs "bunch of randoms".... the fight usually goes down to the wire, in skirmish or domination the points are switching back and forth regularly, there is a lot of movement, and the clone count is almost to 0 when someone wins and both MCC's are near destruction - these battles really are the ones when I finish and I'm like "YEAH!" or "DAMN!" but I have a great feeling that I just experienced what the battles in Dust should always be like... On the other hand, I always get that "oh no" feeling inside when I join a match and my team caps all the points in about 30 seconds.. and then they start shooting and dropping orbitals at the unlucky team on the other side... this is no fun, there is little action, little war point rewards.... same can be said if you're on the losing side too. many times i really miss that tight balanced all night matchs in close beta like 'yeah we won but ufff it was f.... close!' so yes we have no funn from redlined dance to. i was really looking foward pc battles to feel this top adrenalina again but strong lags are really heart breaking whan lag is factor who decides between win and loose, leaves this unfair sad feeling to not play pc again. we even switch to us server to find competitive squads but play on us server with lags is no funn for as in the end. but most sad thing is that i was so many months waiting for this basic problems like match making be fixed but CCP is now like 1 year busy meaking some details fix and putting more new things inside, more than this game can handle meaking after every bild new lags need be fixed. makes wrong circle this game is rolling and soon push me i gess to find more axcided game. CCP I DONT WANT NEW WEAPONS NEW MAPS AND GRASS SHINNING I WANT BIG MANS STRONG AMBUSCH FIGHTS BACK
kayn TARON Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 26	Posted - 2013.12.02 17:38:00 - [56] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Michael Arck wrote: Maybe its wishful thinking, but what if the players just banded together and fought against the protos? What if they concentrated fire on a prototype suit instead of waiting for the player to die so they can get the kill? There must be something that we can do to combat this in the meantime. I really feel CCP won't change it due to the reputation of New Eden. If we all stand together, they can't beat us all. Pubstomping occurs often because we don't band together in-game. There is an option. Those 10 to 16 players in a match that aren't in a squad can squad up in battle. Perhaps one of those squad leaders even knows how to set a defend order that the rest of the squad sticks to. Hell will probably freeze over before this happens though. Really, lets start putting the fault on the lazy players who repeatedly join battles solo to grind out matches faster. People that don't want to take the few minutes necessary to squad up and use teamwork. This is what is hurting the game. Let's not sugarcoat it. Not to mention the other glaring issues this game has that well has been brought up plenty of times in the past. Well said though as this is "one" of many issues plaguing dust currently. Dust is marketed as an FPS/MMO. Can you name me one MMO that does not have a functional online friends list or PVE? lol


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