DUST Search - Elitist Squads vs PUGs are game breaking.

KingBabar wrote:

Thor Odinson42 wrote:

It would be nice if some of the better squads would take it to FW.

But to be quite honest it's time for these solo NPC guys to find a corp and step up their game.

We've done, or at least the squad I was in played FW, Skirmish and Domination non stop for the last 2-3 days, with the occational ambush game thrown in the mix. It didn't help. At least we tried. If anything, it were mostly even a much harder stomp than it is normally in ambush. 2-3 minutes of fighting and then a complete redline, most of the time. And thats why many of us don't like playing anything but ambush, where you can at least chase down the rest of the clones and finish the game. The opposition is generally better in ambush, and we meet squads from GAC, WTF etc which makes us sharpen up and play tighter, these are the fun games.

IMO this all boils down to really bad matchmaking. Why is there always 2 full squads on one team and mostly random players on the other? If the matchmaker could to a much larger degree put one proto squad on each team we'd at least avoid the thoughest brunt of the stomping. We're quite used to games where we kill the 80 clones needed for winning and we lose perhaps 5 for our team, in some cases we've also gone 80-0, its just super silly and doesn't belong in any shooter...

Teamwork is OP....

Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.

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Michael Hyperthraz DUST University Ivy League 4	Posted - 2013.11.13 13:27:00 - [1] - Quote So i started to play this game again around two weeks ago. And all i can say is that Ambush mode is unplayable because of 24/7 elitist squads (Rainbow Effect etc). You guys are too good, there is no fun in that ...not at all. There have to be some solution to that otherwise pepole will quit like my friend did few days ago because of that. It is a game breaking issue, i can deal with all bugs, OP weapons and dropsuits but this is simply too much. There should be some kind of special battles for you people, maybe something like ranked battles with better rewards for victory and lower/none for defeat so the best can play vs the best without completely breaking the game for newbies and casual players. Playing against you is no fun, it is not challenging (dying in less than a second every time). This is the only thing that will destroy this game, nothing else just this.
Kal Kronos L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 100	Posted - 2013.11.13 13:34:00 - [2] - Quote If they played against better people they wouldn't do as well, the corps with the "elite" join requirements attract a certain kind of player. This player is not having fun unless they are raping less skilled players, sure they'll go to the suggested playlist for a few matches but eventually they'll be back in pubs losing isk to boost the only stat that matters to them. This might keep the truly good players out though, as they can beat almost anyone. We really just need a match maker that balances teams based on squads. Dedicated redline sniper, tower forger, nade spammer, protostomper, and mass driver.
Michael Hyperthraz DUST University Ivy League 4	Posted - 2013.11.13 13:53:00 - [3] - Quote So they would join less rewarded battles just to own people badly ?. Gaming is supposed to be challenging at least in my opinion, and this is ultra easy mode. How about unranked battles where WP and KD ratio dont count, would they join it too ?. I prefer to have a choice, so automated match maker is kinda bad idea for me.
norttheantiv D3LTA FORC3 56	Posted - 2013.11.13 14:27:00 - [4] - Quote Red lines and stomps are boring for both sides, but it's that or don't play. It's not any sides fault. If there were more options then this would not happen. It also has to be remembered that all those people in basic suits are just in the way between you and the other proto players. If rainbow are a problem switch to the US servers, more variety there. But you will have to realise that you will never stomp if you can't take them down. If you don't relish the challenge in taking them down then you should consider a different game, the imbalance is part of the reason this game is so interesting Winner EU Squad Cup Go Go Power Rangers!
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe PC RISE of LEGION 1916	Posted - 2013.11.13 14:32:00 - [5] - Quote It would be nice if some of the better squads would take it to FW. But to be quite honest it's time for these solo NPC guys to find a corp and step up their game. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Sleepy Zan Xer Cloud Consortium 2796	Posted - 2013.11.13 14:33:00 - [6] - Quote pugs are already OP with their adorable pudgy little faces and there cute waggy tails. Quick, no, hard... I got all your scopes here ... and for a limited time only you can get the 360 edition.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe PC RISE of LEGION 1916	Posted - 2013.11.13 14:37:00 - [7] - Quote Kal Kronos wrote: If they played against better people they wouldn't do as well, the corps with the "elite" join requirements attract a certain kind of player. This player is not having fun unless they are raping less skilled players, sure they'll go to the suggested playlist for a few matches but eventually they'll be back in pubs losing isk to boost the only stat that matters to them. This might keep the truly good players out though, as they can beat almost anyone. We really just need a match maker that balances teams based on squads. I don't buy this at all. We put together some pretty good squads and run pubs for training and I get tired of weak fights. The matchmaking sucks for everyone. I'm ready for a solo play only standard/militia gear battle mode to remove all these lone wolf ISK grinding people from pub matches. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Import Beercase Beer For Evil Mercs 52	Posted - 2013.11.13 14:37:00 - [8] - Quote We went for factional war for this same reason. "If at first you don't succeed, mccdiving is not for you." Take me drunk, I'm home
Hellkeizer The Avutora Complex 192	Posted - 2013.11.13 14:49:00 - [9] - Quote It's like what my friend said, "This game is fun, when you don't get stomped." Waiting on PvE Balancing without core content is a fail "Don't chu go disrespecting coconut water!" Chakra Attack
KingBabar The Rainbow Effect 1376	Posted - 2013.11.13 14:50:00 - [10] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: It would be nice if some of the better squads would take it to FW. But to be quite honest it's time for these solo NPC guys to find a corp and step up their game. We've done, or at least the squad I was in played FW, Skirmish and Domination non stop for the last 2-3 days, with the occational ambush game thrown in the mix. It didn't help. At least we tried. If anything, it were mostly even a much harder stomp than it is normally in ambush. 2-3 minutes of fighting and then a complete redline, most of the time. And thats why many of us don't like playing anything but ambush, where you can at least chase down the rest of the clones and finish the game. The opposition is generally better in ambush, and we meet squads from GAC, WTF etc which makes us sharpen up and play tighter, these are the fun games. IMO this all boils down to really bad matchmaking. Why is there always 2 full squads on one team and mostly random players on the other? If the matchmaker could to a much larger degree put one proto squad on each team we'd at least avoid the thoughest brunt of the stomping. We're quite used to games where we kill the 80 clones needed for winning and we lose perhaps 5 for our team, in some cases we've also gone 80-0, its just super silly and doesn't belong in any shooter... Teamwork is OP.... http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/KingBabar/media/BannerKingbabarcopy.png.html

Zatara Rought Imperfects 1659	Posted - 2013.11.13 14:51:00 - [11] - Quote Yeah...I love domination...but it's no fun to play when you go in solo or duo and STB brings in 2 maddy's and lays down 20 links around the objective before I get my lav in that subsequently in blown up..I guess some people like camping the redline more than others.....Personally I find it much more fun to either play in standard gear or run solo because 99% of the time I get a squad it inevitably becomes a stomp..even in standard gear. That's Master nader to you scrub. Skype me @ Zatara.Rought CCP's Motto: "SoonGäó"
Justicar Karnellia Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 125	Posted - 2013.11.13 14:56:00 - [12] - Quote I do feel your frustration. As a career lone wolf, I have come up against those guys and many others. First off, don't be afraid to leave a battle if you're not having fun, especially if within 20 seconds you're dying repeatedly or if you're in skirmish mode you're redlined. I'm assuming like most people you play Dust 514 because it's fun, so if you're not having fun - leave! This might be joining another game mode temporarily or just trying another ambush match. You could even try another server. Second, grouping up with others is always helpful, even with no mic - surprisingly, even if you don't join a corp, you will be active in many many chat channels with lots of people that can fight, and you can form groups with these and give others a run for their money. Third - don't be afraid to fight. You'll find individually you can actually give these corps a run for their money - I have come up against rainbow effect, but they weren't notable for me in any way apart from the fact they were organised. When I got them one on one, I could take them down no problems, it's just that in situations like these, proto-squads usually form blobs and move around in a structured way, so you're rarely fighting one individual guy at a time... you're fighitng 3 guys at one time, which of course is difficult. I've had more than one fight where I come up against proto blobs, take down one or two guys - die then do it again... at the end of the match - I sometimes get an invite to join their corp or even a "GG" - and for the less mature corps a hate-mail. I'd say stick with the game, it needs new blood and unfortunately it can ruin your evening - but if you're having fun, dont' be afraid to die.
Kasote Denzara A Vulture 756	Posted - 2013.11.13 14:58:00 - [13] - Quote Justicar Karnellia wrote: I'd say stick with the game, it needs new blood and unfortunately it can ruin your evening - but if you're having fun, dont' be afraid to die. I second this. I'll also add that you shouldn't be afraid to hug your enemy. ... After pulling out a Core Locus Grenade. If you think Plasma Rifles take skill to use and are fine as they are, you are the problem.
norttheantiv D3LTA FORC3 56	Posted - 2013.11.13 15:03:00 - [14] - Quote Kasote Denzara wrote: Justicar Karnellia wrote: I'd say stick with the game, it needs new blood and unfortunately it can ruin your evening - but if you're having fun, dont' be afraid to die. I second this. I'll also add that you shouldn't be afraid to hug your enemy. ... After pulling out a Core Locus Grenade. I loled Winner EU Squad Cup Go Go Power Rangers!
richiesutie 2 The Rainbow Effect 505	Posted - 2013.11.13 17:31:00 - [15] - Quote norttheantiv wrote: Kasote Denzara wrote: Justicar Karnellia wrote: I'd say stick with the game, it needs new blood and unfortunately it can ruin your evening - but if you're having fun, dont' be afraid to die. I second this. I'll also add that you shouldn't be afraid to hug your enemy. ... After pulling out a Core Locus Grenade. I loled Me too :D .....At the OP too compilation of Patch/build notes Check it out! :)
Michael Hyperthraz DUST University Ivy League 4	Posted - 2013.11.13 18:54:00 - [16] - Quote Im not anywhere near to quit dont worry . Its nice to see that we all understand that matchmaking is kinda broken now. Dont get me wrong, i like the game and i like challenges. I also think that being stomped from time to time is fine ... ...but i played really hard and a lot in the past few days (i got the cap yesterday UFF). I won a few, also few was really ballanced, but the rest and i mean like 80% of them was pure 70-80 to 0. Maybe i was just extremely unlucky, plus state of Smart Deploy now makes it even worse.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe PC RISE of LEGION 1922	Posted - 2013.11.13 19:41:00 - [17] - Quote KingBabar wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: It would be nice if some of the better squads would take it to FW. But to be quite honest it's time for these solo NPC guys to find a corp and step up their game. We've done, or at least the squad I was in played FW, Skirmish and Domination non stop for the last 2-3 days, with the occational ambush game thrown in the mix. It didn't help. At least we tried. If anything, it were mostly even a much harder stomp than it is normally in ambush. 2-3 minutes of fighting and then a complete redline, most of the time. And thats why many of us don't like playing anything but ambush, where you can at least chase down the rest of the clones and finish the game. The opposition is generally better in ambush, and we meet squads from GAC, WTF etc which makes us sharpen up and play tighter, these are the fun games. IMO this all boils down to really bad matchmaking. Why is there always 2 full squads on one team and mostly random players on the other? If the matchmaker could to a much larger degree put one proto squad on each team we'd at least avoid the thoughest brunt of the stomping. We're quite used to games where we kill the 80 clones needed for winning and we lose perhaps 5 for our team, in some cases we've also gone 80-0, its just super silly and doesn't belong in any shooter... Teamwork is OP.... I agree, FW is pretty much garbage at the moment. Pretty much any skirmish is garbage 90% of the time. Doms are garbage at least that much. There just isn't any incentive for the randoms to fight and even if the random solo players wanted to fight, most of them can't because they aren't any good and solo. I don't know what the answer is. Remove time in battle from ISK payout formula and provide a bonus to winning team... Watch battles become fun again.
Luk Manag of Terror TRE GAFFEL 162	Posted - 2013.11.13 19:53:00 - [18] - Quote The answer is to bring back Skirmish 1.0. An attack that has no chance of winning will fail to take the first control points. The parameters can be adjusted to favor the defenders, extra hitpoints for the null cannons will prevent random tank snipers from soloing the points, and the base could offer a small dedicated group of randoms a few extra chokepoints to even up the odds vs organized squads. Only teams that are roughly even will ever go into a long match, and when there is a terrible imbalance, the match will end mercifully(quickly).
Meeko Fent Xer Cloud Consortium 1516	Posted - 2013.11.13 20:07:00 - [19] - Quote Hellkeizer wrote: It's like what my friend said, "This game is fun, when you don't get stomped." Exactly. For the State! For Caldari FW join Caldari Hierarchy
Meeko Fent Xer Cloud Consortium 1516	Posted - 2013.11.13 20:08:00 - [20] - Quote Luk Manag wrote: The answer is to bring back Skirmish 1.0. An attack that has no chance of winning will fail to take the first control points. The parameters can be adjusted to favor the defenders, extra hitpoints for the null cannons will prevent random tank snipers from soloing the points, and the base could offer a small dedicated group of randoms a few extra chokepoints to even up the odds vs organized squads. Only teams that are roughly even will ever go into a long match, and when there is a terrible imbalance, the match will end mercifully(quickly). Good point. For the State! For Caldari FW join Caldari Hierarchy

Papa Chanoli WarRavens League of Infamy 93	Posted - 2013.11.13 20:47:00 - [21] - Quote I would like to see gear tiered matches where standard/militia fights the same, advanced goes against advanced and proto goes vs proto. The highest level piece of equipment anywhere on you if you're soloing or in your squad if you're squaded up should be the determiner, so that if you wear one piece of proto, you go up against proto, but if you're all standard gear you go up against no higher than standard gear. I believe that would make the game more fun and more competitive, and matchmaking would be simple. A lot of oir friendly PC training battles these days have low end metalevel requirements, and the battles are a blast at meta level 2 or lower. As long as people stick to the rules it works great and if someone cheats you either see it after the kill or the gear shows up in salvage. That's a perfect example of a very simple solution. I think it might be the game saver CCP needs in the short term.
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe PC RISE of LEGION 926	Posted - 2013.11.13 21:00:00 - [22] - Quote I don't know about gear tierd matches to be honest. I used to think this would work but after running a few games in all starter fits and still kicking some tail I'm starting to feel that the SP imbalances inherent in the game make gear less of a determining factor than some would have you believe. Yea sure proto gear makes you more effective but you can still solo a player in proto gear in a starter fit thanks to the new hit detection. In the world of DUST/ The words are all in haiku/ Tweets are just too long
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe PC RISE of LEGION 926	Posted - 2013.11.13 21:03:00 - [23] - Quote I think a better solution would be to set rewards based upon the type of gear you are wearing vs the type of gear you're fighting against. Proto players, fighting a group of non proto players would see their sp and isk rewards severly reduced. This would need to be paired with matches which are them selves tiered to provide a much increased risk reward mechanic. It seems like the new FW is a step towards doing this but CCP needs to add in an additional tier between new FW and the broken PC battles to really round out this system. Sorry for the lack of detail but I'm on my lunch break so I'm having to keep my posting brief. In the world of DUST/ The words are all in haiku/ Tweets are just too long
Soldiersaint Deepspace Digital 584	Posted - 2013.11.13 21:43:00 - [24] - Quote Michael Hyperthraz wrote: So they would join less rewarded battles just to own people badly ?. Gaming is supposed to be challenging at least in my opinion, and this is ultra easy mode. How about unranked battles where WP and KD ratio dont count, or some kind of casual battles accesible from/to X amount of KD ratio. I prefer to have a choice, so automated match maker is kinda bad idea for me. Life itself is nothing but a frustrating challenge. When i play videogames win or lose its always for 100% fun. Challenges and stats are worthless to me. That being said whenever i join a match and i see i have a good group i pull out my best gear because i know we are going to destroy. Thats how multiplayer works. All this fairplay and be nice stuff is just very silly. If your on the enemy team i could care less about how you feel and what you think. Your an enemy thats all that matters. You can always leave the battle if your not up to it. But hey this just my opinion.
Kira Lannister Ancient Exiles. 1922	Posted - 2013.11.13 22:04:00 - [25] - Quote We all get those matches where you question yourself as a mercenary. :] That's when you grab a forge gun. "The Ancient Templars will guard fearlessly the people, the land and the heavens of the empire." Book of Exiles 1:3
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 467	Posted - 2013.11.13 22:19:00 - [26] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Kal Kronos wrote: If they played against better people they wouldn't do as well, the corps with the "elite" join requirements attract a certain kind of player. This player is not having fun unless they are raping less skilled players, sure they'll go to the suggested playlist for a few matches but eventually they'll be back in pubs losing isk to boost the only stat that matters to them. This might keep the truly good players out though, as they can beat almost anyone. We really just need a match maker that balances teams based on squads. I don't buy this at all. We put together some pretty good squads and run pubs for training and I get tired of weak fights. The matchmaking sucks for everyone. I'm ready for a solo play only standard/militia gear battle mode to remove all these lone wolf ISK grinding people from pub matches. I wish I had PvE for when I'm feeling anti-social and just want to mindlessly grind for ISK and SP, but we don't so its pub matches or FW. So IMO this issue is an area where PvE can possibly make the game better for even those that never want to shoot at AI drones. Most of us grinders will be there for grinding and only in PvP matches when we really want to fight.
richiesutie 2 The Rainbow Effect 506	Posted - 2013.11.13 22:20:00 - [27] - Quote Kira Lannister wrote: We all get those matches where you question yourself as a mercenary. :] That's when you grab a forge gun. GRRRRR I HATE THE FORGE GUN. compilation of Patch/build notes Check it out! :)
Montezumas Revenge the majestic space duck 20	Posted - 2013.11.13 22:24:00 - [28] - Quote Justicar Karnellia wrote: Third - don't be afraid to fight. You'll find individually you can actually give these corps a run for their money - I have come up against rainbow effect, but they weren't notable for me in any way apart from the fact they were organised. When I got them one on one, I could take them down no problems, it's just that in situations like these, proto-squads usually form blobs and move around in a structured way, so you're rarely fighting one individual guy at a time... you're fighitng 3 guys at one time, which of course is difficult. I've had more than one fight where I come up against proto blobs, take down one or two guys - die then do it again... at the end of the match - I sometimes get an invite to join their corp or even a "GG" - and for the less mature corps a hate-mail. I'd say stick with the game, it needs new blood and unfortunately it can ruin your evening - but if you're having fun, dont' be afraid to die. This so much.
calvin b Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 922	Posted - 2013.11.13 22:27:00 - [29] - Quote I love battles that go down to the last few clones or ticks on the MCC. That is why I stay away from Ambush. Do not eat the yellow snow
Justicar Karnellia Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 131	Posted - 2013.11.15 10:53:00 - [30] - Quote calvin b wrote: I love battles that go down to the last few clones or ticks on the MCC. That is why I stay away from Ambush. agreed, my most exciting battles are when it's "bunch of randoms" vs "bunch of randoms".... the fight usually goes down to the wire, in skirmish or domination the points are switching back and forth regularly, there is a lot of movement, and the clone count is almost to 0 when someone wins and both MCC's are near destruction - these battles really are the ones when I finish and I'm like "YEAH!" or "DAMN!" but I have a great feeling that I just experienced what the battles in Dust should always be like... On the other hand, I always get that "oh no" feeling inside when I join a match and my team caps all the points in about 30 seconds.. and then they start shooting and dropping orbitals at the unlucky team on the other side... this is no fun, there is little action, little war point rewards.... same can be said if you're on the losing side too.



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