DUST Search - Matchmaking Method

Magnus Amadeuss wrote:

Now I really have no clue how CCP went about the current matchmaking but it isn't working out well. I'd say during off-peak hours that maybe 1 in 5 matches are anywhere near close. I understand that CCP will not be able to make game modes that are exclusionary because of the small user-base, but I do have a suggestion. A point system;

Each side in a pub-match has a running point total and as players are added the point total goes up until a minimum number is met, then a countdown (i.e. warbarge time) is initiated to allow time for Skotty to fill up the teams further, but ensure matches take place in a timely manner.

I propose point tallies should be as follows;

10 points for characters less than 10 million sp
20 points for characters between 10million and 20 million sp
30 points for characters over 20million sp

(character points would be pre-stored on characters, much like skills or name, to reduce computational load)

+10 points per squad member

This way teams can start to resemble balance. A 6-man squad of proto-players would be between 180 and 240 points meaning that a 6-man protosquad would have to go up against and entire team of random newberries (they would probably still win), or a team of between 9 to 12 moderately skilled solo-players, or possibly even a similar squad with newberries sprinkled throughout.

You would never again have a 12 vs 1 match as we are all familiar with.

This is a non-computationally expensive method to make matches much more balanced.

Of course CCP would need to monitor matches to see if these numbers would need tweaking (which is why the numbers are 10,20,30 instead of 1,2,3)

Thoughts?

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Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 174	Posted - 2013.11.09 19:15:00 - [1] - Quote Now I really have no clue how CCP went about the current matchmaking but it is obviously a failure. I'd say during off-peak hours that maybe 1 in 5 matches are anywhere near close. I understand that CCP will not be able to make game modes that are exclusive because of the small user-base, but I do have a suggestion. A point system; Each side in a pub-match has a running point total and as players are added the point total goes up until a minimum number is met, then a countdown (i.e. warbarge time) is initiated to allow time for Skotty to fill up the teams further, but ensure matches take place in a timely manner. I propose point tallies should be as follows; 10 points for characters >10 million sp 20 points for characters 10million< >20 million sp 30 points for characters 20million< (character points would be pre-stored on characters, much like skills or name, to reduce computational load) +10 points per squad member This way teams can start to resemble balance. A 6-man squad of proto-players would be between 180 and 240 points meaning that a 6-man protosquad would have to go up against and entire team of random newberries (they would probably still win), or a team of between 9 to 12 moderately skilled solo-players, or possibly even a similar squad with newberries sprinkled throughout. You would never again have a 12 vs 1 match as we are all familiar with. This is a non-computationally expensive method to make matches much more balanced. Of course CCP would need to monitor matches to see if these numbers would need tweaking (which is why the numbers are 10,20,30 isntead of 1,2,3) Thoughts?
Melchiah ARANeAE The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 252	Posted - 2013.11.09 20:19:00 - [2] - Quote It's a pretty good method actually. Though, instead of having a point system based on total SP for the character, I think it'd be better if it was based on WP/death. That way people with SP spread over many roles aren't penalised. 'Insert witty signature here'
Talos Vagheitan 158	Posted - 2013.11.09 20:26:00 - [3] - Quote Melchiah ARANeAE wrote: It's a pretty good method actually. Though, instead of having a point system based on total SP for the character, I think it'd be better if it was based on WP/death. That way people with SP spread over many roles aren't penalised. Spreading your SP too thin is a self penalty. Besides, someone with 10M SP spread all over the place, still has more material options (not to mention overall experience) than some blueberry with <5M. +1 To OP. Great idea Who cares what some sniper has to say
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 175	Posted - 2013.11.09 20:29:00 - [4] - Quote Melchiah ARANeAE wrote: It's a pretty good method actually. Though, instead of having a point system based on total SP for the character, I think it'd be better if it was based on WP/death. That way people with SP spread over many roles aren't penalised. I am one of those that have a bunch of sp spread about... I have 15 mil sp and no proto suits. By 20 mil sp I will definately have a protosuit though. 10 mil sp increments definately makes a large difference, and does put you on a different level than someone under that amount. Of course you will have people fighting above/below their fight class on the edges of those sp boarders, but they will not be there for long. There is sooo much more to consider when you use WP/deaths as to make it a huge headache. Plus think about this from an ease of deployment standpoint. I really can not think of a simpler system that would have immediate and profound results.
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1163	Posted - 2013.11.09 20:51:00 - [5] - Quote anything based on SP will still be imbalanced, because skill points do not measure actual skill. I know a few players with 8 - 10 mil SP that can put 20 + mil sp mercs to shame. so I can imagine that's prevalent across the dust universe. a character point system could work, but I would think it would have to be a new stat based on personal effectiveness from match to match. none of the stats right now are any real measure of your personal contribution to a battle. insert witty or profound statement here _______.
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 175	Posted - 2013.11.09 21:35:00 - [6] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: anything based on SP will still be imbalanced, because skill points do not measure actual skill. I know a few players with 8 - 10 mil SP that can put 20 + mil sp mercs to shame. so I can imagine that's prevalent across the dust universe. a character point system could work, but I would think it would have to be a new stat based on personal effectiveness from match to match. none of the stats right now are any real measure of your personal contribution to a battle. How can you possibly make a metric like personal effectiveness? Where do you even start, and how incredibly complicated must the formula be in order to ensure that you don't have a team of just effective snipers or logis or whatever? This proposed example has simplicity in mind, and I think on average you can say that people with less than 10 mil sp will be outmatched by someone over 20 mil sp. Ask yourself this: How much would this proposed system go towards getting better fights? I would say quite a bit. Sure you will find people that are worth more/less than their point total adds to the team, but I think it will all wash out in the end.
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1165	Posted - 2013.11.09 22:46:00 - [7] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: anything based on SP will still be imbalanced, because skill points do not measure actual skill. I know a few players with 8 - 10 mil SP that can put 20 + mil sp mercs to shame. so I can imagine that's prevalent across the dust universe. a character point system could work, but I would think it would have to be a new stat based on personal effectiveness from match to match. none of the stats right now are any real measure of your personal contribution to a battle. How can you possibly make a metric like personal effectiveness? Where do you even start, and how incredibly complicated must the formula be in order to ensure that you don't have a team of just effective snipers or logis or whatever? This proposed example has simplicity in mind, and I think on average you can say that people with less than 10 mil sp will be outmatched by someone over 20 mil sp. Ask yourself this: How much would this proposed system go towards getting better fights? I would say quite a bit. Sure you will find people that are worth more/less than their point total adds to the team, but I think it will all wash out in the end. you have a point. I honestly don't have any solid, detailed answer for a solution, I think yours is on the right track with a point system, but as you mentioned with low player count and no real way to define an individual mercs skill, I see any strict system having the consequence of long ques, different imbalance issues and of course, new bugs. insert witty or profound statement here _______.
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 176	Posted - 2013.11.11 03:35:00 - [8] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: anything based on SP will still be imbalanced, because skill points do not measure actual skill. I know a few players with 8 - 10 mil SP that can put 20 + mil sp mercs to shame. so I can imagine that's prevalent across the dust universe. a character point system could work, but I would think it would have to be a new stat based on personal effectiveness from match to match. none of the stats right now are any real measure of your personal contribution to a battle. How can you possibly make a metric like personal effectiveness? Where do you even start, and how incredibly complicated must the formula be in order to ensure that you don't have a team of just effective snipers or logis or whatever? This proposed example has simplicity in mind, and I think on average you can say that people with less than 10 mil sp will be outmatched by someone over 20 mil sp. Ask yourself this: How much would this proposed system go towards getting better fights? I would say quite a bit. Sure you will find people that are worth more/less than their point total adds to the team, but I think it will all wash out in the end. you have a point. I honestly don't have any solid, detailed answer for a solution, I think yours is on the right track with a point system, but as you mentioned with low player count and no real way to define an individual mercs skill, I see any strict system having the consequence of long ques, different imbalance issues and of course, new bugs. I really can't see this expanding wait times by that much. This should be a super fast calculation. Lets say you throw 30-45 secs on the warbarge timer and that should be more than enough time to populate games. an easy fix to Matchmaking
Sky Kage Clones Of The Damned 90	Posted - 2013.11.20 05:43:00 - [9] - Quote +1 I die alot AND have fun... Who knew? FIX MATCHMAKING CCP!
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 524	Posted - 2013.11.20 06:16:00 - [10] - Quote Cap squad size at 3 for pub matches. Give the matchmaking software a fighting chance. "Pulvis et umbra sumus. (We are but dust and shadow.)" GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace

Oswald Rehnquist 637	Posted - 2013.11.20 10:45:00 - [11] - Quote Melchiah ARANeAE wrote: It's a pretty good method actually. Though, instead of having a point system based on total SP for the character, I think it'd be better if it was based on WP/death. That way people with SP spread over many roles aren't penalised. I also like the op methods, but I do prefer a wp/d as well Below 28 dB
KalOfTheRathi Nec Tributis 895	Posted - 2013.11.20 12:43:00 - [12] - Quote There is no matchmaking in DUST. There never has been and there are no published statements that there ever will be. Welcome to DUST.
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic Top Men. 305	Posted - 2013.11.20 15:16:00 - [13] - Quote No matter the method you put in the user base is far too small for it to actually matter. There is just too many game modes to compensate. You'd be waiting 10 mins to actually find a match...and if you get too strict with matchmaking then it'll be even longer. It's the biggest reason the NPE is so short, they have to throw newer players into the pool because there are not enough new players to allow them to play together without it taking ages.
THUNDERGROOVE ZionTCD Public Disorder. 326	Posted - 2013.11.21 19:59:00 - [14] - Quote Galvan Nized wrote: No matter the method you put in the user base is far too small for it to actually matter. There is just too many game modes to compensate. You'd be waiting 10 mins to actually find a match...and if you get too strict with matchmaking then it'll be even longer. It's the biggest reason the NPE is so short, they have to throw newer players into the pool because there are not enough new players to allow them to play together without it taking ages. Yet with the current "matchmaking" the new players always get stuck on my team and go 0/15, usually always 3 or 4 of them and I'd rather them not even be in the match they're just wasting clones. They need to extend the academy again. ZionTCD Director & Ammar Loyalist Amarr Sentinel \| Amarr Logi \| *Losematar* Scout What is a signature?
The-Errorist Closed For Business For All Mankind 363	Posted - 2013.12.05 02:58:00 - [15] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: anything based on SP will still be imbalanced, because skill points do not measure actual skill. I know a few players with 8 - 10 mil SP that can put 20 + mil sp mercs to shame. so I can imagine that's prevalent across the dust universe. a character point system could work, but I would think it would have to be a new stat based on personal effectiveness from match to match. none of the stats right now are any real measure of your personal contribution to a battle. How can you possibly make a metric like personal effectiveness? Where do you even start, and how incredibly complicated must the formula be in order to ensure that you don't have a team of just effective snipers or logis or whatever? This proposed example has simplicity in mind, and I think on average you can say that people with less than 10 mil sp will be outmatched by someone over 20 mil sp. Ask yourself this: How much would this proposed system go towards getting better fights? I would say quite a bit. Sure you will find people that are worth more/less than their point total adds to the team, but I think it will all wash out in the end. I thought of a formula that should do that ok: [(War points/deaths)/10 * 1.5(KDR)]/5 = Personal effectiveness Edit: In Battlefield Bad Company 2 (not sure about the rest), there's a skill level stat that each player has that's used for matchmaking and the majority of the time, it works pretty well.
Cosgar ParagonX 8340	Posted - 2013.12.05 03:31:00 - [16] - Quote If we had the player numbers, I would suggest something simple like this: Dropsuit meta level + total gear meta level ++ total filled modules = average meta level High Security = Low average meta level, no friendly fire, fixed ISK rewards, no salvage. Low Security = Moderately high meta level, ISK/salvage rewards scaled on current pub algorithms. High Security = No gear restriction, higher ISK/salvage rewards with a higher multiplier to winners. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Samoset Detrium G.R.A.V.E 0	Posted - 2013.12.05 06:37:00 - [17] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Now I really have no clue how CCP went about the current matchmaking but it isn't working out well. I'd say during off-peak hours that maybe 1 in 5 matches are anywhere near close. I understand that CCP will not be able to make game modes that are exclusionary because of the small user-base, but I do have a suggestion. A point system; Each side in a pub-match has a running point total and as players are added the point total goes up until a minimum number is met, then a countdown (i.e. warbarge time) is initiated to allow time for Skotty to fill up the teams further, but ensure matches take place in a timely manner. I propose point tallies should be as follows; 10 points for characters less than 10 million sp 20 points for characters between 10million and 20 million sp 30 points for characters over 20million sp (character points would be pre-stored on characters, much like skills or name, to reduce computational load) +10 points per squad member This way teams can start to resemble balance. A 6-man squad of proto-players would be between 180 and 240 points meaning that a 6-man protosquad would have to go up against and entire team of random newberries (they would probably still win), or a team of between 9 to 12 moderately skilled solo-players, or possibly even a similar squad with newberries sprinkled throughout. You would never again have a 12 vs 1 match as we are all familiar with. This is a non-computationally expensive method to make matches much more balanced. Of course CCP would need to monitor matches to see if these numbers would need tweaking (which is why the numbers are 10,20,30 instead of 1,2,3) Thoughts? I would like to start off by saying this is a good idea. it would make games much more balanced than they havent been. I cannot stress how infuriating it can be for some folks, me especially, when i go into any match type nowadays and regret even coming onto Dust. I have about 7.6 mill SP at this time and i still cannot deal with any semi-decent player wearing a Proto suit. I am quite proud of my Advanced Assault suit, even if it may not be much to some of you folks, its still my pride and joy, and yet i still cant do anything to help my cause out. Imagine how the newberries feel, getting sent straight from the academy where they thought they were doing an excellent job, ((in some cases true)) feeling ike they could actually enjoy this game, then all of a sudden you get thrown into a match where the opposing team in almost nothing but full advanced or higher suits ((im guilty as well of this)) . I was about done myself at that point about 2 weeks into Dust, but i perservered to this time and day and now im still considering quitting for now until they balance out the matches. I do see where there is a small user base problem yes, but why do we have to make it that much more difficult to have people continue playing this game? Why must we as a gaming community, make it that much of a struggle? Keeping the newberries in the academy a few days longer wont solve the problem, they will still get sent out to get eaten alive by the "wolves". Keeping the match making system as it is though wont resolve the issue either. If you want a bigger user base, then you have to start somewhere and that is why i propose this. A sector security based matchmaking process that would restrict what tier of equipment you can bring to a matchtype. The Squad leader and or individual can search these type of matches for themselves, from 1.0 - .7 counts as basic. .6 to .4 advanced. and anything after including Planetary Conquest has no restrictions. Even with the small user base this type of matchmaking process could be rewarding to all with a minimal isk reward depending on the match itself. There could be an issue with people using lower tier suits or even free starter ones in the high matches just to earn the isk as well, that is why i also propose a minimal dropsuit meta level to be enforced, that way no one just gets a free ride in the .3 on down matches. You still have to spend money to earn money, just as we always do. That may not be the best solution, so feel free to improve on that. Please, feel free to share this idea, dislike it, understand me etc. This is a forum, its open for ideas and opinions.


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