Shotty I'm very intrigued by kB/m super strafing?? Does this mean that if I were to get a kB/m it would improve my lil scout?

I dont suppose you can share a YouTube video so I can see the difference in manouverability and techniques not achievable with ds3.

Cheers in advance

Shotty, what are your thoughts on the various tiers of Shotguns. I'm really starting to wonder if they're worth it since the basic Shotgun seems to be pretty close performance wise. Unlike other weapons where the Proto are beast, the Shotgun seems to not have quite the same trade off...

Unable to comment. Haven't sufficiently tested Advanced or Proto Tiers since 1.6.

TL/DR: Shotgun Hit Detection has improved. Opportunity for further improvement exists.

Preface: Ran cheap Scout / Shotgun fit to test "specific Shotgun improvements".
Caveat: Initial observations after a dozen or so matches; further testing to follow.
Note: Shotgun Operation V, Proficiency IV.

Fit: Gallente Scout G/1 (Advanced)

---

PW: 'Dren' Shotgun
SW: 'Toxin' SMG
GR: M-1 Locus
EQ: Compact Nanohive
HS: Cmp Shield (x2)
LS: Bsc ArmRep, Enh KinCat

---

Shield: 226
Armor: 149
Sprint: 8.68
Cost: ~22k

---

Initial Observations, Itemized ...

Known Issues & Observed Changes

• Trigger-to-Fire Delay - Unchanged. Slight hesitation still follows trigger pull.
• Blue Flare (Moving Target) - Improved. Observed few, if any, missed shots on target.
• Blue Flare (Stationary Target) - Improved. Observed zero missed shots on target.
• Proficiency Drawback - Improved. No longer necessary to pause between blasts.

Mechanical Counters & Observed Changes

• Bunny Hop (Point-Blank) - Improved. Pellets now register for appropriate damage.
• Bunny Hop (In-Range) - Unchanged. Pellets still appear to register at less or no damage.
• Lateral Strafe (Point-Blank) - Unchanged. Choppy tracking + fire delay = frequent miss.
• Lateral Strafe (In-Range) - Slightly improved, presumably due to HD improvement.
• KB/M Super Strafe (Point-Blank) - Unchanged. Remains highly effective counter.
• KB/M Super Strafe (In-Range) - Unchanged. Remains highly effective counter.
• Backpedal - Shotgun damage drop-off unchanged; remains effective counter.

Preliminary Conclusions

• Shotgun Hit Detection has improved.
• Primary concern (Sparkly Blue Flare) appears to have been remedied.
• Secondary concerns (mechanical counters, weapon balance, weapon range) remain at issue.

o7. Don't have screen-capture capability.
I'm not sure if switching to KB/M will help you or not as a Scout.
I read lots of complaints from KB/M users. I've not tried it, therefore I cannot recommend it.

I can tell you that a Super Strafer's rapid directional change renders the Shotgun near useless in Optimal Range.
KB/M Super Strafing works best on Medium Frames. Tank first blast; dodge the rest (while hipfiring).
As a Scout, you will not benefit in the same way; the first SG blast is generally sufficient to kill you.

So does this basically imply you don't use Advanced or Proto tiers at all... meaning the basic Shotgun gets the job done.

My turn. I actually re-installed the game based on this very thread...

The shot timing was improved, and the hit detection was improved; at least I got hitmarkers where once I didn't.
However, something disturbing kept happening. Because of the new AR Aim Assist buff, TTK from ARs is higher, so being in a light frame, I die instantly-er...

But, I would blast a guy, and he wouldn't die. Before I could get my next shot off, I was insta-killed, and the killscreen would show my opponent with 0 Shield and 0 Armor remaining...
This happened to me about 20+ times tonight. I find it odd that so many times my shotgun did the EXACT amount of damage as the other guy had in HP... And it would happen going against various fits.

But, I did play one match, where the first half was AMAZING! For the first time ever, I was actually having fun using the Shotgun. Then the game started to lag, and everything permanently dropped to 5fps, and it was ruined. But for that first part, I was having so much fun and really immersed into the moment. That hasn't happened for me with the shotgun, ever!

My conclusion:
1. Hit detection seems to be fixed for the shotgun
2. Something isn't right with the damage calculator
3. The TTK with ARs makes it even more challenging to use

On a side note, I played a couple games against and then squadded with DJINN Marauder. He seemed to be doing alright with the Shotgun, but he did switch a lot to an SCR, so I think his deaths were higher than usual too.

Shotgun Skill Progression
Shotguns scale poorly with SP investment. In the case of the AR or SMG (for example), leveling Operation and Proficiency makes a night-and-day difference. In contrast, leveling Shotgun Operation and Proficiency yields nearly imperceptible benefit. Shotgun Operation can be a detriment at point-blank range, due to choppy CQC tracking and/or target strafe speeds. In short, most weapons improve dramatically with SP investment; Shotguns do not.

I do not have this problem in 1.7, take that as you will.

PS: Glad you found this thread helpful; means alot for you to say so in light of our past spat :-)

Not at all; I use all Shotguns (except Proto Breach). Haven't had time to sufficiently test Advanced or Proto tiers since today's fix. Can't comment on whether they're "worth it" or not since 1.6. Historically speaking ...

Shotgun Skill Progression
Shotguns scale poorly with SP investment. In the case of the AR or SMG (for example), leveling Operation and Proficiency makes a night-and-day difference. In contrast, leveling Shotgun Operation and Proficiency yields nearly imperceptible benefit. Shotgun Operation can be a detriment at point-blank range, due to choppy CQC tracking and/or target strafe speeds. In short, most weapons improve dramatically with SP investment; Shotguns do not.

Shotgun Tier Progression
The jump from Standard to Advanced is worthwhile. The effective range -- if I'm not mistaken -- of the CRG is slightly better than that of the Standard. In my experience, damage output is nearly the same, but the affect of damage drop-off is less frequently observed when running Advanced. The jump from Advanced to Proto is arguably less worthwhile; minor benefit at major expense.

My position on Skill Progression will likely not change with 1.6. My position on Tier Progression may change once I've had time to further test Advanced and Proto variants. On both of these points, I defer to Lightning xVx and DJINN Marauder.

My turn. I actually re-installed the game based on this very thread...

The shot timing was improved, and the hit detection was improved; at least I got hitmarkers where once I didn't.
However, something disturbing kept happening. Because of the new AR Aim Assist buff, TTK from ARs is higher, so being in a light frame, I die instantly-er...

But, I would blast a guy, and he wouldn't die. Before I could get my next shot off, I was insta-killed, and the killscreen would show my opponent with 0 Shield and 0 Armor remaining...
This happened to me about 20+ times tonight. I find it odd that so many times my shotgun did the EXACT amount of damage as the other guy had in HP... And it would happen going against various fits.

But, I did play one match, where the first half was AMAZING! For the first time ever, I was actually having fun using the Shotgun. Then the game started to lag, and everything permanently dropped to 5fps, and it was ruined. But for that first part, I was having so much fun and really immersed into the moment. That hasn't happened for me with the shotgun, ever!

My conclusion:
1. Hit detection seems to be fixed for the shotgun
2. Something isn't right with the damage calculator
3. The TTK with ARs makes it even more challenging to use

On a side note, I played a couple games against and then squadded with DJINN Marauder. He seemed to be doing alright with the Shotgun, but he did switch a lot to an SCR, so I think his deaths were higher than usual too.