DUST Search - 1.6 Preliminary Shotgun Review

8213 wrote:

My turn. I actually re-installed the game based on this very thread...

The shot timing was improved, and the hit detection was improved; at least I got hitmarkers where once I didn't.
However, something disturbing kept happening. Because of the new AR Aim Assist buff, TTK from ARs is higher, so being in a light frame, I die instantly-er...

But, I would blast a guy, and he wouldn't die. Before I could get my next shot off, I was insta-killed, and the killscreen would show my opponent with 0 Shield and 0 Armor remaining...
This happened to me about 20+ times tonight. I find it odd that so many times my shotgun did the EXACT amount of damage as the other guy had in HP... And it would happen going against various fits.

But, I did play one match, where the first half was AMAZING! For the first time ever, I was actually having fun using the Shotgun. Then the game started to lag, and everything permanently dropped to 5fps, and it was ruined. But for that first part, I was having so much fun and really immersed into the moment. That hasn't happened for me with the shotgun, ever!

My conclusion:
1. Hit detection seems to be fixed for the shotgun
2. Something isn't right with the damage calculator
3. The TTK with ARs makes it even more challenging to use

On a side note, I played a couple games against and then squadded with DJINN Marauder. He seemed to be doing alright with the Shotgun, but he did switch a lot to an SCR, so I think his deaths were higher than usual too.


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Shotty GoBang Pro Hic Immortalis 1946	Posted - 2013.11.05 18:26:00 - [1] - Quote TL/DR: Shotgun Hit Detection has improved. Opportunity for further improvement exists. Preface: Ran cheap Scout / Shotgun fit to test "specific Shotgun improvements". Caveat: Initial observations after a dozen or so matches; further testing to follow. Note: Shotgun Operation V, Proficiency IV. Fit: Gallente Scout G/1 (Advanced) PW: 'Dren' Shotgun SW: 'Toxin' SMG GR: M-1 Locus EQ: Compact Nanohive HS: Cmp Shield (x2) LS: Bsc ArmRep, Enh KinCat Shield: 226 Armor: 149 Sprint: 8.68 Cost: ~22k Initial Observations, Itemized ... Known Issues & Observed Changes (if any) Trigger-to-Fire Delay - Unchanged. Slight hesitation still follows trigger pull. Blue Flare (Moving Target) - Improved. Observed few, if any, missed shots on target. Blue Flare (Stationary Target) - Improved. Observed zero missed shots on target. Proficiency Drawback - Improved. No longer necessary to pause between blasts. Mechanical Counters & Observed Changes Bunny Hop (Point-Blank) - Improved. Pellets now register for appropriate damage. Bunny Hop (In-Range) - Unchanged. Pellets still appears to register at less or no damage. Lateral Strafe (Point-Blank) - Unchanged. Choppy tracking + fire delay = frequent miss. Lateral Strafe (In-Range) - Slightly improved, presumably due to HD improvement. KB/M Super Strafe (Point-Blank) - Unchanged. Remains highly effective counter. KB/M Super Strafe (In-Range) - Unchanged. Remains highly effective counter. Backpedal - Unchanged. Remains highly effective counter. Preliminary Conclusions Shotgun Hit Detection has improved. Primary concern (Sparkly Blue Flare) appears to have been remedied. Secondary concerns (mechanical counters, general weapon balance) remain at issue.
Shotty GoBang Pro Hic Immortalis 1955	Posted - 2013.11.05 19:27:00 - [2] - Quote Mirataf wrote: Shotty I'm very intrigued by kB/m super strafing?? Does this mean that if I were to get a kB/m it would improve my lil scout? I dont suppose you can share a YouTube video so I can see the difference in manouverability and techniques not achievable with ds3. Cheers in advance o7. Don't have screen-capture capability. I'm not sure if switching to KB/M will help you or not as a Scout (I've never tried it). I read lots of complaints from KB/M users, so I'm hesitant to try or recommend it. I can tell you that a Super Strafer's rapid directional change renders the Shotgun near useless in Optimal Range. KB/M Super Strafing works best on Medium Frames. Tank first blast; dodge the rest. As a Scout, you won't benefit in the same way. The first SG blast is generally sufficient to kill you.
Shotty GoBang Pro Hic Immortalis 1956	Posted - 2013.11.05 19:40:00 - [3] - Quote Ares 514 wrote: Shotty, what are your thoughts on the various tiers of Shotguns. I'm really starting to wonder if they're worth it since the basic Shotgun seems to be pretty close performance wise. Unlike other weapons where the Proto are beast, the Shotgun seems to not have quite the same trade off... Unable to comment. Haven't sufficiently tested Advanced or Proto Tiers since 1.6.
Shotty GoBang Pro Hic Immortalis 1962	Posted - 2013.11.05 22:07:00 - [4] - Quote In related news (1.6 CQC improvements) ... https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1466827 ^ Nova Knives still aren't cutting it. Gameplay footage inside.
Shotty GoBang Pro Hic Immortalis 1965	Posted - 2013.11.05 22:58:00 - [5] - Quote Ares 514 wrote: So does this basically imply you don't use Advanced or Proto tiers at all... meaning the basic Shotgun gets the job done. Not at all. I haven't had time today to run Advanced or Proto Shotguns enough to comment on whether or not they're "worth it" at the moment. Historically speaking ... Skill Progression Shotguns scale poorly with SP investment when compared to other weapons. For example, leveling Operation and Proficiency makes a night-and-day difference with ARs and SMGs. Leveling Shotgun Operation and Proficiency yields nearly imperceptible benefit. In short, some weapons improve dramatically with SP investment; Shotguns are not among them. Tier Progression The jump from Standard to Advanced is worthwhile. The effective range -- if I'm not mistaken -- on the CRG is slightly better than that of the Standard. In my experience, damage output is nearly the same, but the affect of damage drop-off is less frequently observed when running Advanced. The jump from Advanced to Proto is arguably less worthwhile; minor benefit at major expense. My position on Skill Progression will likely not change. My position on Tier Progression may change once I've had time to test post-fix Advanced and Proto variants. On both of these points, I defer to Lightning xVx and DJINN Marauder.
Shotty GoBang Pro Hic Immortalis 1982	Posted - 2013.11.06 05:24:00 - [6] - Quote 8213 wrote: My turn. I actually re-installed the game based on this very thread... The shot timing was improved, and the hit detection was improved; at least I got hitmarkers where once I didn't. However, something disturbing kept happening. Because of the new AR Aim Assist buff, TTK from ARs is higher, so being in a light frame, I die instantly-er... But, I would blast a guy, and he wouldn't die. Before I could get my next shot off, I was insta-killed, and the killscreen would show my opponent with 0 Shield and 0 Armor remaining... This happened to me about 20+ times tonight. I find it odd that so many times my shotgun did the EXACT amount of damage as the other guy had in HP... And it would happen going against various fits. But, I did play one match, where the first half was AMAZING! For the first time ever, I was actually having fun using the Shotgun. Then the game started to lag, and everything permanently dropped to 5fps, and it was ruined. But for that first part, I was having so much fun and really immersed into the moment. That hasn't happened for me with the shotgun, ever! My conclusion: 1. Hit detection seems to be fixed for the shotgun 2. Something isn't right with the damage calculator 3. The TTK with ARs makes it even more challenging to use On a side note, I played a couple games against and then squadded with DJINN Marauder. He seemed to be doing alright with the Shotgun, but he did switch a lot to an SCR, so I think his deaths were higher than usual too. Thanks for the reply, 8213. Pleased to see you're back at it. o7 In response to your observations: Such is the plight of the Shotgun Scout. You manage -- by no small feat -- to sneak into optimal range only to die in fraction of a second once you engage. The above "test fit" held up quite poorly in close quarters versus ScR and AR fire today. Estimated my TTK to be around 0.3 seconds; worse than observed in 1.5 running the same fit. A shotgun simply can't get shots off fast enough to compensate for a Scout's half-second TTK. Hence brick-tanked Scouts (i.e. Marauder). Even if every blast hits, a Hardened Medium has more than sufficient time to react; if you aren't brick-tanked, you're generally toast before you can place the required second and third blast. TL/DR - Scouts don't need more HP ... they need sufficient Alpha Damage to kill quickly and stay on the move. In response to your conclusions: 1. Agree totally. 2. Haven't observed described phenomena (yet). Will keep and eye out. 3. Agreed that opportunity for improvement exists. - Shotty PS: Glad you found this thread helpful; means alot for you to say so in light of our past spat :-)
Shotty GoBang Pro Hic Immortalis 1997	Posted - 2013.11.06 15:27:00 - [7] - Quote Revision: Trigger-to-Fire Delay - Slightly improved. Slight hesitation still follows trigger pull. Formerly: Trigger-to-Fire Delay - Unchanged. Slight hesitation still follows trigger pull. Further Explanation: On "Choppy CQC Tracking" ... I should've fleshed this one out a 'bit in my original post. When extremely close to a target, the target model moves at a rate faster than you can track, even at 100/100 sensitivity. The closer you get to your target, the more guesswork and luck required to land a center-mass shot. "Choppy tracking" becomes especially apparent at higher levels of Shotgun Operation, when using a Breach, or when Framerate drops due to environmental factors (i.e. latency).