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Doc Noah
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
811
|
Posted - 2013.11.03 00:39:00 -
[1] - Quote
How would you guys feel if CCP were to replace the default melee with equippable Nova Knives?
Personally I thought it was rather dull that I could do a quick 1/2 sec elbow blow or pistol whip, however, being able to draw out my knife in Counter Strike added a whole nother level of melee immersion that I havent felt in any modern game (halo, CoD's paper cut knife, battlefield's scripted animation). What I want is a third weapon slot dedicated to nova knives on all suits to replace weapon melee.
All suits start out with a MLT Knife at 0 CPU/PG cost, it'll be weaker than standard but cost absolutely nothing. If you want a stronger knife, you'll have to replace the default fitting with a STD, ADV, or PRO, at which point it'll start costing CPU/PG. The suit's default knife cannot be unequipped, instead it stays on all suits (starter fits, BPOs, and market bought BPCs) and can be exchanged.
The way it'll work is pressing the right analog button will do a quick one handed knife animation thats more akin to a fist punch while still maintaining your main weapon at hand, holding down the right analog would holster your weapon and draw out both knives and enter into knife mode that is pretty much what we currently have when we hold nova knives.
Once all racial knives are implemented, CCP can match all suits with it's default racial knife.
Currently Nova Knives are underused, I want to steer clear of the horrible elbow bunt animation and hope to add a universal stealth element that everyone can use but not everyone can master or use in most situations. It'll be both fun and tactical and allows everyone to experience knifing. Since nova knife will no longer take a secondary sidearm slot that would leave room for people to carry a sidearm but I think it'll still be balanced because the no one will really use MLT knife over a sidearm under normal circumstances and upgrading the knife would cost CPU/PG so you would be trading in sidearm effectiveness for better knifing.
Pros +A third equippable weapon +All players can experience a more immersive melee gameplay +Better melee animation that makes more sense than an elbow bunt +At 0 sp 0 cpu/pg, a stealth weapon that everyone can use by default Cons -Wont be that strong unless you upgrade it, costing cpu and pg [tradeoff] -Requires some coding work to make the melee button (R3) function so you can take out knives if you hold down the button, everything else can stay the same, no change necessary -Bitter hipsters wont stop talking about how nova knife use to be a sidearm weapon
This is not a suggestion (yet), it is simply a discussion about a possibility and how people would react to such a change. Any thoughts and comments? |
Powerh8er
Norwegian Dust514 Corporation Top Men.
247
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Posted - 2013.11.03 00:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
.... I just want my HMG to have better range than the nova knife... |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
1976
|
Posted - 2013.11.03 00:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
It's already an equippable sidearm, why complicate it for no benefit to gameplay?
I've been a long advocate of the Codex melee being returned for those with Novas equipped, but beyond that they function fine as they are.
One a side note Re: racial knives, I do hope they're introduced as variants of the same Nova knife skill, rather than independant weapons. |
Super Sniper95
GAC WORLD
10
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Posted - 2013.11.03 00:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
this is not CoD dude |
Infamous Erich
Inf4m0us
15
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Posted - 2013.11.03 00:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
Doc Noah wrote:How would you guys feel if CCP were to replace the default melee with equippable Nova Knives?
Personally I thought it was rather dull that I could do a quick 1/2 sec elbow blow or pistol whip, however, being able to draw out my knife in Counter Strike added a whole nother level of melee immersion that I havent felt in any modern game (halo, CoD's paper cut knife, battlefield's scripted animation). What I want is a third weapon slot dedicated to nova knives on all suits to replace weapon melee.
All suits start out with a MLT Knife at 0 CPU/PG cost, it'll be weaker than standard but cost absolutely nothing. If you want a stronger knife, you'll have to replace the default fitting with a STD, ADV, or PRO, at which point it'll start costing CPU/PG. The suit's default knife cannot be unequipped, instead it stays on all suits (starter fits, BPOs, and market bought BPCs) and can be exchanged.
The way it'll work is pressing the right analog button will do a quick one handed knife animation thats more akin to a fist punch while still maintaining your main weapon at hand, holding down the right analog would holster your weapon and draw out both knives and enter into knife mode that is pretty much what we currently have when we hold nova knives.
Once all racial knives are implemented, CCP can match all suits with it's default racial knife.
Currently Nova Knives are underused, I want to steer clear of the horrible elbow bunt animation and hope to add a universal stealth element that everyone can use but not everyone can master or use in most situations. It'll be both fun and tactical and allows everyone to experience knifing. Since nova knife will no longer take a secondary sidearm slot that would leave room for people to carry a sidearm but I think it'll still be balanced because the no one will really use MLT knife over a sidearm under normal circumstances and upgrading the knife would cost CPU/PG so you would be trading in sidearm effectiveness for better knifing.
Pros +A third equippable weapon +All players can experience a more immersive melee gameplay +Better melee animation that makes more sense than an elbow bunt +At 0 sp 0 cpu/pg, a stealth weapon that everyone can use by default Cons -Wont be that strong unless you upgrade it, costing cpu and pg [tradeoff] -Requires some coding work to make the melee button (R3) function so you can take out knives if you hold down the button, everything else can stay the same, no change necessary -Bitter hipsters wont stop talking about how nova knife use to be a sidearm weapon
This is not a suggestion (yet), it is simply a discussion about a possibility and how people would react to such a change. Any thoughts and comments? 1+ for this being awsome |
Doc Noah
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
812
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Posted - 2013.11.03 00:55:00 -
[6] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:It's already an equippable sidearm, why complicate it for no benefit to gameplay?
I've been a long advocate of the Codex melee being returned for those with Novas equipped, but beyond that they function fine as they are.
One a side note Re: racial knives, I do hope they're introduced as variants of the same Nova knife skill, rather than independant weapons.
I already stated it was a sidearm but I'm going more in the direction of third weapon. How is it no benefit to gameplay? It adds a melee element to general gameplay that no one would see unless they spec and equip a nova knife.
Super Sniper95 wrote:this is not CoD dude
Funny you should mention that, maybe you should read the post ya? I drew my inspiration from counter strike, not CoD's paper cut one-button press instakill. |
Sinboto Simmons
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
1783
|
Posted - 2013.11.03 00:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
Can't I have one thing I do better than anyone else outside our class, just one thing
Sinboto - The True Blood Minja.
Forum Warrior level 1
Tryhard Veteran
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Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
1978
|
Posted - 2013.11.03 01:02:00 -
[8] - Quote
Doc Noah wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:It's already an equippable sidearm, why complicate it for no benefit to gameplay?
I've been a long advocate of the Codex melee being returned for those with Novas equipped, but beyond that they function fine as they are.
One a side note Re: racial knives, I do hope they're introduced as variants of the same Nova knife skill, rather than independant weapons. I already stated it was a sidearm but I'm going more in the direction of third weapon. How is it no benefit to gameplay? It adds a melee element to general gameplay that no one would see unless they spec and equip a nova knife.
There is already a melee element to general gameplay, there is none to be added. Having to skill into that which you want to use effectively is also one of the major elements of this game. Your suggestion undermines that. I don't want to sound derisive here, I appreciate every attempt to encourage discussion, I just don't see any appeal to your suggestion. |
Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
4895
|
Posted - 2013.11.03 04:00:00 -
[9] - Quote
As a player who has dedicated to mastering Nova Knives, I can say that I like the knives the way they are now with only a few exceptions...
Hit detection needs to be fixed Sprint charging is needed Maybe a lunge feature
That's it.
CCP, please fix the Nova Knives. Thank you.
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Cosgar
ParagonX
7025
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Posted - 2013.11.03 04:13:00 -
[10] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:As a player who has dedicated to mastering Nova Knives, I can say that I like the knives the way they are now with only a few exceptions...
Hit detection needs to be fixed Sprint charging is needed Maybe a lunge feature
That's it. I think if you have knives equipped, your default melee attack should be a nova knife stab.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Aaroniero d'Lioncourt
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
244
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Posted - 2013.11.03 04:14:00 -
[11] - Quote
There should be a knife in every characters elbow. or a fixed bayonet or some sh*t like this. |
Vyzion Eyri
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
1730
|
Posted - 2013.11.03 04:29:00 -
[12] - Quote
The OP's idea would work well if racial melee weapons were brought in. Sidearms are way more effective than nova knives currently because even at low scan profiles, scouts can be visually spotted and sneak attacks generally only succeed against targets who're hacking an objective.
With a melee slot we could see plasma bayonets, AC-like hidden wrist blades and maybe some good ol' combat knives being equipped in addition to sidearms, giving scouts more flexibility on the battlefield.
Furthermore an extra type of weaponry slot (in addition to sidearm, light and heavy) could mean pilot suits get a Sidearm + Melee combination, and even give rise to totally new suit variants. Brawlers: huge bonuses to melee weaponry, nimble and extremely fast movement speed, but can only equip melee weapons. Could have a light and medium version. Medium frame brawlers would be as fast as scouts with a little more HP, light frame brawlers would have the same HP as scouts but with faster base movement speed.
Also, if we make nanite injectors a 'melee' weapon and remove an equipment slot from all logibros accordingly, this gives logistics an option to trade revival capabilities for some close quarters defense. Personally I'd stick with the injector but I may have a knife fit on my hacking suit, so I can dice up anyone who blows up my explosives.
The fact that melee weapons still take PG/CPU will mean most players will still have to decide between a melee weapon or a sidearm, but others could decide to drop their light weapon down a tier to be able to equip a sidearm AND a melee weapon, maybe so they can attach a bayonet to their assault rifle.
> "I will show you fear in a handful of dust."
T.S. Eliot, The Wasteland
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Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows
1005
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Posted - 2013.11.03 04:39:00 -
[13] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:As a player who has dedicated to mastering Nova Knives, I can say that I like the knives the way they are now with only a few exceptions...
Hit detection needs to be fixed Sprint charging is needed Maybe a lunge feature
That's it. I think if you have knives equipped, your default melee attack should be a nova knife stab. I agree, default melee with NK equipped should be the shank stabbing type animation, the only time that we should see the double slash is when we R1 attack with NK up.
Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives....
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Lightning Bolt2
From The Mist
305
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Posted - 2013.11.03 07:11:00 -
[14] - Quote
I'm just imagining all the fits I could get with this now .
a NK heavy with flaylock and FG. a NK sniper with a reliable SMG. a crazy fit with only MLT knives .
remember, when you first see lightning play in a open field!
from the non-existent mist!
forum warrior lvl: pathetic!
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Ecshon Autorez
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
123
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Posted - 2013.11.03 07:17:00 -
[15] - Quote
Doc Noah wrote:How would you guys feel if CCP were to replace the default melee with equippable Nova Knives?
This is how it was originally, they changed it from being the default melee to Nova Knives being equipable sidearms. |
Lightning Bolt2
From The Mist
305
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Posted - 2013.11.03 07:19:00 -
[16] - Quote
Doc Noah wrote:How would you guys feel if CCP were to replace the default melee with equippable Nova Knives?
as long as I'm still able to switch to them for my duel blade I'm fine.
remember, when you first see lightning play in a open field!
from the non-existent mist!
forum warrior lvl: pathetic!
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Snagman 313
Carbon 7 CRONOS.
150
|
Posted - 2013.11.03 07:32:00 -
[17] - Quote
Back in the closed beta your melee was a NK attack but everyone decided that they would rather it as a dedicated sidearm. So I duno about it going back, I reckon a lot of guys would feel it might be too COD for Dust....
Snag |
Kasote Denzara
A Vulture
642
|
Posted - 2013.11.03 07:34:00 -
[18] - Quote
I'm here because someone mentioned Counter-Strike.
Buzzzzz.
I go commando in my Commando. Feels good, man.
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Ten-Sidhe
538
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Posted - 2013.11.03 07:39:00 -
[19] - Quote
Why not just make it... A] if knife is in sidearm slot you attack with uncharged knife instead of weapon stock. B]If no knife is equipped you still use the weapon stock, like it is now C]New melee weapon slot added only to certain suits, not all, I suggest logi/light frames/commando. D)Knife can still be placed in heavy/light/sidearm and switched to with weapon select, like current.
The logi since it has no sidearm slot, and model for minmatar logi has a leg sheath knife. I would leave the amarr logi without knife slot, since it has a sidearm slot already. Commando since who would use a light for knife when suits reason for being is 2 light weapons. Light frame, including scout, since they are the most probable melee users. Common trope is scouts and commando doing stealth knife kills, so it makes sense for people to expect them to have more knife usability when coming to the game. Assault works well enough with out buff of extra weapon slot, heavy wouldn't be able to catch much with knife anyway. Heavy with knife slot would be more a trap for new players to eat pg/cpu and raise isk cost of deaths then a useful addition.
I assume the new racial knives will all have new skills for there use.
This gives more options to less played classes that fit there role and still requires the same sp to make effective use of knife as now.
Forum Alt of Sophia Borjia, Press secretary of Hellstorm, League of Infamy
EvE mains 10sidhe and Sophia Borgia
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Deranged Disaster
The Rainbow Effect
552
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Posted - 2013.11.03 09:22:00 -
[20] - Quote
I remember it being like that a long, long time ago. Never knew why they removed it, it seemed like a nice little thing. I would agree to it considering that melee combat is ridiculously underrated as it is. And perhaps, leave dedicated with nova knifers to equip them as an actual sidearm in order to make it so that it adds more damage or quicker slashes so there would still be benefits?
We chew nyan cats and spit rainbows.
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Slag Emberforge
Immortal Retribution
114
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Posted - 2013.11.03 15:50:00 -
[21] - Quote
Ten-Sidhe wrote:Why not just make it... A] if knife is in sidearm slot you attack with uncharged knife instead of weapon stock. B]If no knife is equipped you still use the weapon stock, like it is now C]New melee weapon slot added only to certain suits, not all, I suggest logi/light frames/commando. D)Knife can still be placed in heavy/light/sidearm and switched to with weapon select, like current.
The logi since it has no sidearm slot, and model for minmatar logi has a leg sheath knife. I would leave the amarr logi without knife slot, since it has a sidearm slot already. Commando since who would use a light for knife when suits reason for being is 2 light weapons. Light frame, including scout, since they are the most probable melee users. Common trope is scouts and commando doing stealth knife kills, so it makes sense for people to expect them to have more knife usability when coming to the game. Assault works well enough with out buff of extra weapon slot, heavy wouldn't be able to catch much with knife anyway. Heavy with knife slot would be more a trap for new players to eat pg/cpu and raise isk cost of deaths then a useful addition.
I assume the new racial knives will all have new skills for there use.
This gives more options to less played classes that fit there role and still requires the same sp to make effective use of knife as now.
I like the idea the addition being applied to some but not all "classes", as commandos already have a higher than average melee damage, scouts are basically made for NKs, and logis could definitely use a little something to be more dangerous at close range.
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Scheherazade VII
Expert Intervention Caldari State
31
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Posted - 2013.11.03 15:53:00 -
[22] - Quote
WHY NOT?
It's not like somebody did 800+ damage to me not long ago with Ishukone nova knives!
Yeh let's have something which does 800 damage as a default weapon!
what are you on??????????
GêÜGëêDUST VIDEOSGëêGêÜ
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
4908
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Posted - 2013.11.03 20:52:00 -
[23] - Quote
Scheherazade VII wrote:WHY NOT?
It's not like somebody did 800+ damage to me not long ago with Ishukone nova knives!
Yeh let's have something which does 800 damage as a default weapon!
what are you on??????????
1200 damage actually.
CCP, please fix the Nova Knives. Thank you.
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Scheherazade VII
Expert Intervention Caldari State
42
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Posted - 2013.11.03 21:24:00 -
[24] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Scheherazade VII wrote:WHY NOT?
It's not like somebody did 800+ damage to me not long ago with Ishukone nova knives!
Yeh let's have something which does 800 damage as a default weapon!
what are you on?????????? 1200 damage actually.
case in point.
GêÜGëêDUST VIDEOSGëêGêÜ
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cranium79
ZionTCD Public Disorder.
71
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Posted - 2013.11.03 21:26:00 -
[25] - Quote
Ecshon Autorez wrote:Doc Noah wrote:How would you guys feel if CCP were to replace the default melee with equippable Nova Knives?
This is how it was originally, they changed it from being the default melee to Nova Knives being equipable sidearms.
yea, that is how it was back in closed beta. changed it sometime around chromosome's release? can't quite remember. |
Doc Noah
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
815
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Posted - 2013.11.03 21:35:00 -
[26] - Quote
Scheherazade VII wrote:WHY NOT?
It's not like somebody did 800+ damage to me not long ago with Ishukone nova knives!
Yeh let's have something which does 800 damage as a default weapon!
what are you on?????????? If you even bothered to read what I wrote, I said default would be a lot weaker than STD-PRO NKs. Even if it's strong by default, you still need to get in close to actually use it so you cant really complain if someone successfully sneaks up on you or catches you while you're walking backwards.
A quick melee knife strike with a gun at hand would do roughly the same damage as our current melee whereas if you want a stronger quick melee, you'll need to put away your gun amd draw out your knives. |
Derek Barnes
0uter.Heaven Proficiency V.
438
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Posted - 2013.11.03 21:38:00 -
[27] - Quote
Well, remember back in early closed beta the nova knife was our default melee, then eventually changed it to elbow. |
VAHZZ
Villore Sec Ops
6
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Posted - 2013.11.03 21:40:00 -
[28] - Quote
I don't think it is necessary as it is already a sidearm, even though I do run a fit with ONLY NK.
Be extremely subtle, even to the point of formlessness. Be extremely mysterious, even to the point of soundlessness.
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Doc Noah
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
815
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Posted - 2013.11.03 21:43:00 -
[29] - Quote
Derek Barnes wrote:Well, remember back in early closed beta the nova knife was our default melee, then eventually changed it to elbow. Was there a reason why they removed it? I'm gonna guess it's because CCP wanted a halo/CoD styled quick melee over a slow equippable knife melee system. I see no reason why we cant have both. |
Sylwester Dziewiecki
Beyond Hypothetical Box
197
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Posted - 2013.11.03 21:45:00 -
[30] - Quote
Doc Noah wrote:How would you guys feel if CCP were to replace the default melee with equippable Nova Knives? We already had Nova Knife as default melee in past. I personally like it how it is now - you can more easily recognize players that prefer more hard and challenging gameplay thanks to that . Sometimes when I see guy with knifes I engage him with melee instead of shooting him from distance, because I know that walking with knifes is extremely difficult. |
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