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Doc Noah
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
815
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Posted - 2013.11.03 21:55:00 -
[31] - Quote
Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote:Doc Noah wrote:How would you guys feel if CCP were to replace the default melee with equippable Nova Knives? We already had Nova Knife as default melee in past. I personally like it how it is now - you can more easily recognize players that prefer more hard and challenging gameplay thanks to that. Sometimes when I see guy with knifes I engage him with melee instead of shooting him from distance, because I know that walking with knifes is extremely difficult. That makes like what, less than 1% of the total population? NKs are underused, and with good reason. People just dont see them justifed as a sidearm weapon.
I havent played early DUST builds but I dont see why they would need to make NK share the sidearm slot when most games that have a more complex melee system has melee as their own weapon slot. |
TunRa
New Age Pirates
211
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Posted - 2013.11.03 21:57:00 -
[32] - Quote
I demand a mini baseball bat!
Is this where I write the signature? No?
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Sylwester Dziewiecki
Beyond Hypothetical Box
197
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Posted - 2013.11.03 22:25:00 -
[33] - Quote
Doc Noah wrote:Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote:Doc Noah wrote:How would you guys feel if CCP were to replace the default melee with equippable Nova Knives? We already had Nova Knife as default melee in past. I personally like it how it is now - you can more easily recognize players that prefer more hard and challenging gameplay thanks to that. Sometimes when I see guy with knifes I engage him with melee instead of shooting him from distance, because I know that walking with knifes is extremely difficult. That makes like what, less than 1% of the total population? NKs are underused, and with good reason. People just dont see them justifed as a sidearm weapon. I havent played early DUST builds but I dont see why they would need to make NK share the sidearm slot when most games that have a more complex melee system has melee as their own weapon slot. Well, if I'm able to see NK guy at distance at engage him at my term of engagement, then he is terrible NK user, and I'm doing it just because I'm a nice person . Running around with knife in your hand it's not about how fast you can spam R1, theres a whole bunch of tactics behind it for you and for your squad. I guess that when we finally be able to see cloaking device in this game, using knifes will be even more entertaining. I don't think that this particules game mechanic have some competition in other games. Especially in games where it's all about clicking right button in right moment, and all left that player have to do is wathing some animation that can not be interrupted by him or by others. CCP is gives community a very fresh glance of 'how it really supposed to be like' , competition should follow in their footsteps. If you be telling me that you seen in past "(...) a more complex melee system (...)", think about those games where you have to press different buttons every each second to finish or fail melee animation, I agree that it is making a game look a truly complex, but in fact just in negative form. I like to play games that are real tactics, not those that pretend to have it. |
Doc Noah
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
815
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Posted - 2013.11.03 22:55:00 -
[34] - Quote
Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote:If you be telling me that you seen in past "(...) a more complex melee system (...)", think about those games where you have to press different buttons every each second to finish or fail melee animation, I agree that it is making a game look a truly complex, but in fact just in negative form. I like to play games that are real tactics, not those that pretend to have it.
I have no idea what you're talking about, none of the games I used as an example are QTE. Counter strike - equippable knives that have a quick slash and a heavy slash, only way to one shot with it is to do a heavy slash to the head, knife is silent Blacklight retribution - many different types of melees ranging in damage, speed, length, and run/walk speed. Melee is also it's own equippable slot Team fortress - Same as above Warframe (I hate using this game as an example) - same as above except it can be modified kinda like how you can modify a dropsuit and has it's own leveling system
I can keep going but DUST is the only game I know that has a complex melee system, that isnt as simple as pushing one button and watching the guy die instantly, who combines it with sidearm secondaries because they felt it deserves to be it's own weapon. If CCP's internal statistics show anything, it's that no one likes the direction NKs are going and it'll remain one of the least used elements of this game. Did I mention how dull an elbow melee is?
Dont know what you're talking about when you say "pretend" or why it would be negative for this game. It doesnt matter if you have NKs as a sidearm or as a melee slot, it wouldnt change the fact you need to play smart and tactical to successfully use it so thats a null argument. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1334
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Posted - 2013.11.03 23:01:00 -
[35] - Quote
Doc Noah wrote:How would you guys feel if CCP were to replace the default melee with equippable Nova Knives?
Personally I thought it was rather dull that I could do a quick 1/2 sec elbow blow or pistol whip, however, being able to draw out my knife in Counter Strike added a whole nother level of melee immersion that I havent felt in any modern game (halo, CoD's paper cut knife, battlefield's scripted animation). What I want is a third weapon slot dedicated to nova knives on all suits to replace weapon melee.
All suits start out with a MLT Knife at 0 CPU/PG cost, it'll be weaker than standard but cost absolutely nothing. If you want a stronger knife, you'll have to replace the default fitting with a STD, ADV, or PRO, at which point it'll start costing CPU/PG. The suit's default knife cannot be unequipped, instead it stays on all suits (starter fits, BPOs, and market bought BPCs) and can be exchanged.
The way it'll work is pressing the right analog button will do a quick one handed knife animation thats more akin to a fist punch while still maintaining your main weapon at hand, holding down the right analog would holster your weapon and draw out both knives and enter into knife mode that is pretty much what we currently have when we hold nova knives.
Once all racial knives are implemented, CCP can match all suits with it's default racial knife.
Currently Nova Knives are underused, I want to steer clear of the horrible elbow bunt animation and hope to add a universal stealth element that everyone can use but not everyone can master or use in most situations. It'll be both fun and tactical and allows everyone to experience knifing. Since nova knife will no longer take a secondary sidearm slot that would leave room for people to carry a sidearm but I think it'll still be balanced because the no one will really use MLT knife over a sidearm under normal circumstances and upgrading the knife would cost CPU/PG so you would be trading in sidearm effectiveness for better knifing.
Pros +A third equippable weapon +All players can experience a more immersive melee gameplay +Better melee animation that makes more sense than an elbow bunt +At 0 sp 0 cpu/pg, a stealth weapon that everyone can use by default Cons -Wont be that strong unless you upgrade it, costing cpu and pg [tradeoff] -Requires some coding work to make the melee button (R3) function so you can take out knives if you hold down the button, everything else can stay the same, no change necessary -Bitter hipsters wont stop talking about how nova knife use to be a sidearm weapon
This is not a suggestion (yet), it is simply a discussion about a possibility and how people would react to such a change. Any thoughts and comments?
Nova knives used to be the default melee weapon.
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Ghost Kaisar
R 0 N 1 N
763
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Posted - 2013.11.03 23:13:00 -
[36] - Quote
Scheherazade VII wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Scheherazade VII wrote:WHY NOT?
It's not like somebody did 800+ damage to me not long ago with Ishukone nova knives!
Yeh let's have something which does 800 damage as a default weapon!
what are you on?????????? 1200 damage actually. case in point.
But to get it there, you have to proto out a Minmatar Scout suit, Go to knives proficiency V, AND equip a complex sidearm damage mod. On top of proto knives.
It's a HUGE SP investment. Which is why most Minnie scouts are kinda mad about the terrible NK hit detection.
"All war is deception." "He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot, will be victorious" -Sun Tzu
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
4911
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Posted - 2013.11.03 23:56:00 -
[37] - Quote
Doc Noah wrote:Derek Barnes wrote:Well, remember back in early closed beta the nova knife was our default melee, then eventually changed it to elbow. Was there a reason why they removed it? I'm gonna guess it's because CCP wanted a halo/CoD styled quick melee over a slow equippable knife melee system. I see no reason why we cant have both.
If I remember correctly, it was not just because CCP wanted to split roles for the scouts in regards to melee and nova knives but it was also because a lot of players felt that the knives deserved their own special place in the game.
So far, the knives are fine the way they are in terms of weapon type and damage output. The only thing left to make it viable is to fix the damn hit detection which has plagued every ninja out there.
CCP, please fix the Nova Knives. Thank you.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
4912
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Posted - 2013.11.04 00:02:00 -
[38] - Quote
Doc Noah wrote:Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote:Doc Noah wrote:How would you guys feel if CCP were to replace the default melee with equippable Nova Knives? We already had Nova Knife as default melee in past. I personally like it how it is now - you can more easily recognize players that prefer more hard and challenging gameplay thanks to that. Sometimes when I see guy with knifes I engage him with melee instead of shooting him from distance, because I know that walking with knifes is extremely difficult. That makes like what, less than 1% of the total population? NKs are underused, and with good reason. People just dont see them justifed as a sidearm weapon. I havent played early DUST builds but I dont see why they would need to make NK share the sidearm slot when most games that have a more complex melee system has melee as their own weapon slot.
The only reason you don't see that many knifers right now is because A) the hit detection is bad at the moment and B) it takes a massive amount of practice and experience in order to make the knives a viable stand-alone primary weapon. This means that only the best of the best players out there can make good use of them as primary weapons. That and there are not that many players interested in sneaking around like Sam Fisher from Splinter Cell at the moment. Some players like to snipe, others like to be an HMG-wielding heavy, others like to be pilots, etc.
Also, I often see it as a good thing that they are underused as sidearms because then that means that you gain respec whenever you successfully kill someone with the knives. Since I am dedicated knifer, I am surprised that I never got any hate mail from any of my victims. Just "I salute you" mails. There is a lot of respect given to those who dedicate themselves to learning the fine art of the knives.
CCP, please fix the Nova Knives. Thank you.
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Monkey MAC
killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance
906
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Posted - 2013.11.04 00:20:00 -
[39] - Quote
Considering we have plasma based machine guns, vtol aircraft and frikkin spaceships the fact a heavies fist is his most effective melee is just plain off.
Melee could definitely do with a feeling of weight behind, either nova knives, short range projectile, me3 esque gauntlet, bayonet, knuckle duster tazer, just something a little more high tech?
Now I know you said you didn't like it, but I would like a melee finisher of some kind, maybe a punch to the face and a knife to throat for head on, knife through the dome for behind. Something where I can feel his pitful existence wink out before me, letting me know I have caused that clone as much pain as possible.
The pen is mightier than the sword
The gun is mightier than both
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
9846
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Posted - 2013.11.04 00:40:00 -
[40] - Quote
I don't wanna go back, maybe a third weapon slot (melee)
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier Specialist
Curren/t Theme \\= Advanced Heavy Machine Gun =// Unlocked.
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