DUST Search - buff the laser rifle

Severance Pay wrote:

Mortedeamor wrote:

Vell0cet wrote:

Mortedeamor wrote:

Vell0cet wrote:

LR needs sharpshooter skill. At LR Sharpshooter 5, I should hit out to 120m.

that is the exact skill when combined with 22 base dmg at the viziam lvl that made it op in the first place in chromosome no a 25% range increase skill transversal between all laser rifles would not be a fix....it would be an issue

we are looking for buffs particularly to the elm and viziam specifically over the laser rifle..the point is to give an edge to the GEAR not the skills so as to have a reason to use anything other than standard

I disagree. It was the base dmg that was the problem in Chromosome. 120m is a reasonable range for a long range weapon. Currently, complex damage mod stacked Duvolle ARs can kill you when they're in your optimal, and the AR is a blaster (I.e. short range). Beam lasers are supposed to be long range weapons. 120m would allow you to out-range ARs, SRs etc while still being extremely vulnerable when < 25m or so. We didn't have duvolles with pinpoint accuracy butchering people before they can react at crazy ranges in chromosome. If we did I don't think the LR would have been considered OP.

If they want to differentiate the versions, I would think even slower heat buildup would be good, as would increased clips. Keep the damage where it is.

i did not disagree with a range buff nor did i say that 120m was unreasonable i just said that what we want is an improvement to the GEAR not a skill that just makes the laser in general better standard laser is FINE i hopped on earlier ran 22/0 standard amarian assault standard laser...but the adv and proto laser rifles needs an advantage over the standard..a 25 % range increase skill will not solve this because it would just buff the abilities of all the laser rifles...
its an equipment improvement im asking for not a skill adjustment the skills are fine.

Here you go morte. Enjoy.

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Mortedeamor WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL The Ascendancy 572	Posted - 2013.11.02 17:41:00 - [1] - Quote ccp please extend the adv laser rifle optimum range from 84 to 94 and the proto from 84 to 104 to account for the lack of benefit through higher end gear with the laser rifle or extend the clip from 100 to 125 for adv and 100 to 150 for proto i would prefer the range buff through higher end gear
Smooth Assassin Stardust incorporation 327	Posted - 2013.11.02 17:48:00 - [2] - Quote It has been buffed by a new scope *Assassination is my thing.*
Mortedeamor WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL The Ascendancy 572	Posted - 2013.11.02 17:50:00 - [3] - Quote Smooth Assassin wrote: It has been buffed by a new scope haha real funny and it practically has c4 strapped to the hot barrel
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1000	Posted - 2013.11.02 17:58:00 - [4] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: Smooth Assassin wrote: It has been buffed by a new scope haha real funny and it practically has c4 strapped to the hot barrel Isn't C4 stable enough to be cooked on? Either way I will agree that there should be some difference between tiers. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives....
Sgt Kirk SyNergy Gaming EoN. 2540	Posted - 2013.11.02 18:00:00 - [5] - Quote Haven't I seen you charging people head on with a laser rifle at close range? I know it was someone in wasteland removal but that's NOT how you use a laser rifle. I may have deleted DUST but I still care deeply about this game.
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 723	Posted - 2013.11.02 18:07:00 - [6] - Quote Smooth Assassin wrote: It has been buffed by a new scope The ADV and PRO lasers are still completely pointless to skill into unless you want Laser Rifle Proficiency. For the 17 or so extra rounds you can fire before overheating, the price, fitting cost, and overheat feedback all go up. Nobody smart fits anything higher than STD lasers. [+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94] Burner of faces. The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered.
Beld Errmon The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 1070	Posted - 2013.11.02 18:27:00 - [7] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Haven't I seen you charging people head on with a laser rifle at close range? I know it was someone in wasteland removal but that's NOT how you use a laser rifle. She, like any good laser user knows how to use their SMG, you can't spend the entire match sitting up the back hoping the blue berries will break through and cap the objective. +1 lasers need some more pros to outweigh the ridiculous cons CCP loves to attach to anything Amarrian.
Knight Soiaire Taco Eating Ninja Monkeys 2942	Posted - 2013.11.02 18:28:00 - [8] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Haven't I seen you charging people head on with a laser rifle at close range? I know it was someone in wasteland removal but that's NOT how you use a laser rifle. I use my Laser Rifle for rave parties. Raffle draw will be in 2-3 days CAF Scrub - BHD Scrub - 100% Scrub guaranteed. (Scrub approved by GJR himself)
Humble Seeker PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 38	Posted - 2013.11.02 18:29:00 - [9] - Quote Beld Errmon wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Haven't I seen you charging people head on with a laser rifle at close range? I know it was someone in wasteland removal but that's NOT how you use a laser rifle. She, like any good laser user knows how to use their SMG, you can't spend the entire match sitting up the back hoping the blue berries will break through and cap the objective. +1 lasers need some more pros to outweigh the ridiculous cons CCP loves to attach to anything Amarrian. Exactly. We already have to deal with taking more overheat damage as we use more advance LR's. Why can't they have at least a range bonus as the tiers increase? "Surround yourself with the faithful, Stand together, for there is no strength like it under the heavens."
Humble Seeker PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 38	Posted - 2013.11.02 18:36:00 - [10] - Quote Knight Soiaire wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Haven't I seen you charging people head on with a laser rifle at close range? I know it was someone in wasteland removal but that's NOT how you use a laser rifle. I use my Laser Rifle for rave parties. A few weeks ago, some corp members and I were in a FW match where the Minmatar team only had one guy. Needless to say, we got bored....so... AMARRIAN RAAAVE! Lasers, techno music, flux grenades, lulz, all of it. "Surround yourself with the faithful, Stand together, for there is no strength like it under the heavens."

Mortedeamor WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL The Ascendancy 574	Posted - 2013.11.02 20:11:00 - [11] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Haven't I seen you charging people head on with a laser rifle at close range? I know it was someone in wasteland removal but that's NOT how you use a laser rifle. no if i engage in close combat its with smg..although i have had the visuals of my smg and laser rifle glitched allot recently im no scrub i lay waste with my laser...the proto is just statistically useless
Vell0cet Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 481	Posted - 2013.11.02 20:22:00 - [12] - Quote LR needs sharpshooter skill. At LR Sharpshooter 5, I should hit out to 120m. Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
Mortedeamor WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL The Ascendancy 577	Posted - 2013.11.02 20:24:00 - [13] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: LR needs sharpshooter skill. At LR Sharpshooter 5, I should hit out to 120m. that is the exact skill when combined with 22 base dmg at the viziam lvl that made it op in the first place in chromosome no a 25% range increase skill transversal between all laser rifles would not be a fix....it would be an issue we are looking for buffs particularly to the elm and viziam specifically over the laser rifle..the point is to give an edge to the GEAR not the skills so as to have a reason to use anything other than standard
Crimson Judgment Rogue Spades EoN. 132	Posted - 2013.11.02 20:27:00 - [14] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Mortedeamor wrote: Smooth Assassin wrote: It has been buffed by a new scope haha real funny and it practically has c4 strapped to the hot barrel Isn't C4 stable enough to be cooked on? Either way I will agree that there should be some difference between tiers. fun fact C4 will only explode when under heat and pressure for example you can jump on a brick of C4 and catch another on fire but they won't go off until both conditions are met
Mortedeamor WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL The Ascendancy 578	Posted - 2013.11.02 20:37:00 - [15] - Quote difference from standard to proto we have dmg same accuracy same clip same max ammo same range same reload same price 31.48X increase heat cost 1.11x decrease (the only beneficial difference) feedback 1.5x increase pg cost 2x increase cpu 1.73x increase
Mortedeamor WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL The Ascendancy 580	Posted - 2013.11.02 20:43:00 - [16] - Quote Crimson Judgment wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Mortedeamor wrote: Smooth Assassin wrote: It has been buffed by a new scope haha real funny and it practically has c4 strapped to the hot barrel Isn't C4 stable enough to be cooked on? Either way I will agree that there should be some difference between tiers. fun fact C4 will only explode when under heat and pressure for example you can jump on a brick of C4 and catch another on fire but they won't go off until both conditions are met wow thats cool yeah i dont know much about official explosives...ok how about this...the lase rifle has an old and already glisterin leaking stick of unstable dynamite attached to its barrel
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 724	Posted - 2013.11.02 21:25:00 - [17] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: Vell0cet wrote: LR needs sharpshooter skill. At LR Sharpshooter 5, I should hit out to 120m. that is the exact skill when combined with 22 base dmg at the viziam lvl that made it op in the first place in chromosome no a 25% range increase skill transversal between all laser rifles would not be a fix....it would be an issue we are looking for buffs particularly to the elm and viziam specifically over the laser rifle..the point is to give an edge to the GEAR not the skills so as to have a reason to use anything other than standard I don't think the old Visiam would even be OP when compared to the shortened TTKs and lengthened ranges of most weapons. It was OP when compared to them then, but a lot of the other weapons have had a sort of power creep, while CCP has been too afraid to buff the laser rifle to even be close to what it once was. [+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94] Burner of faces. The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1002	Posted - 2013.11.02 21:26:00 - [18] - Quote Crimson Judgment wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Mortedeamor wrote: Smooth Assassin wrote: It has been buffed by a new scope haha real funny and it practically has c4 strapped to the hot barrel Isn't C4 stable enough to be cooked on? Either way I will agree that there should be some difference between tiers. fun fact C4 will only explode when under heat and pressure for example you can jump on a brick of C4 and catch another on fire but they won't go off until both conditions are met Thanks for the education, TBH, I thought they required a electrical charge to detonate. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives....
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 9838	Posted - 2013.11.02 21:32:00 - [19] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Crimson Judgment wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Mortedeamor wrote: Smooth Assassin wrote: It has been buffed by a new scope haha real funny and it practically has c4 strapped to the hot barrel Isn't C4 stable enough to be cooked on? Either way I will agree that there should be some difference between tiers. fun fact C4 will only explode when under heat and pressure for example you can jump on a brick of C4 and catch another on fire but they won't go off until both conditions are met Thanks for the education, TBH, I thought they required a electrical charge to detonate. So I take it you have to jump on a burning brick of c4 to find out. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier Specialist Curren/t Theme \\= Advanced Heavy Machine Gun =// Unlocked.
calvin b Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 838	Posted - 2013.11.02 21:43:00 - [20] - Quote The laser rifle is a conundrum. By all physics, the further the light travels from its source the weaker it becomes. So why do we have a weapon that uses light and achieves greater strength the further it travels. Do not eat the yellow snow

Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 725	Posted - 2013.11.02 21:56:00 - [21] - Quote calvin b wrote: The laser rifle is a conundrum. By all physics, the further the light travels from its source the weaker it becomes. So why do we have a weapon that uses light and achieves greater strength the further it travels. The beam is focused to be most effective at a certain range. [+ªa¦Ç+¦++-ö-Å94] Burner of faces. The Plasma Cannon is not underpowered.
Vell0cet Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 482	Posted - 2013.11.02 21:58:00 - [22] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: Vell0cet wrote: LR needs sharpshooter skill. At LR Sharpshooter 5, I should hit out to 120m. that is the exact skill when combined with 22 base dmg at the viziam lvl that made it op in the first place in chromosome no a 25% range increase skill transversal between all laser rifles would not be a fix....it would be an issue we are looking for buffs particularly to the elm and viziam specifically over the laser rifle..the point is to give an edge to the GEAR not the skills so as to have a reason to use anything other than standard I disagree. It was the base dmg that was the problem in Chromosome. 120m is a reasonable range for a long range weapon. Currently, complex damage mod stacked Duvolle ARs can kill you when they're in your optimal, and the AR is a blaster (I.e. short range). Beam lasers are supposed to be long range weapons. 120m would allow you to out-range ARs, SRs etc while still being extremely vulnerable when < 25m or so. We didn't have duvolles with pinpoint accuracy butchering people before they can react at crazy ranges in chromosome. If we did I don't think the LR would have been considered OP. If they want to differentiate the versions, I would think even slower heat buildup would be good, as would increased clips. Keep the damage where it is. Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
Mortedeamor WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL The Ascendancy 582	Posted - 2013.11.02 22:02:00 - [23] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: Mortedeamor wrote: Vell0cet wrote: LR needs sharpshooter skill. At LR Sharpshooter 5, I should hit out to 120m. that is the exact skill when combined with 22 base dmg at the viziam lvl that made it op in the first place in chromosome no a 25% range increase skill transversal between all laser rifles would not be a fix....it would be an issue we are looking for buffs particularly to the elm and viziam specifically over the laser rifle..the point is to give an edge to the GEAR not the skills so as to have a reason to use anything other than standard I disagree. It was the base dmg that was the problem in Chromosome. 120m is a reasonable range for a long range weapon. Currently, complex damage mod stacked Duvolle ARs can kill you when they're in your optimal, and the AR is a blaster (I.e. short range). Beam lasers are supposed to be long range weapons. 120m would allow you to out-range ARs, SRs etc while still being extremely vulnerable when < 25m or so. We didn't have duvolles with pinpoint accuracy butchering people before they can react at crazy ranges in chromosome. If we did I don't think the LR would have been considered OP. If they want to differentiate the versions, I would think even slower heat buildup would be good, as would increased clips. Keep the damage where it is. i did not disagree with a range buff nor did i say that 120m was unreasonable i just said that what we want is an improvement to the GEAR not a skill that just makes the laser in general better standard laser is FINE i hopped on earlier ran 22/0 standard amarian assault standard laser...but the adv and proto laser rifles needs an advantage over the standard..a 25 % range increase skill will not solve this because it would just buff the abilities of all the laser rifles... its an equipment improvement im asking for not a skill adjustment the skills are fine. the viziam needs to better than the standard and a skill isnt what should do it. all the other light weapons protos have significant differences that are beneficial lr is the only one that does not
Severance Pay Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic 943	Posted - 2013.11.02 22:04:00 - [24] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: Vell0cet wrote: Mortedeamor wrote: Vell0cet wrote: LR needs sharpshooter skill. At LR Sharpshooter 5, I should hit out to 120m. that is the exact skill when combined with 22 base dmg at the viziam lvl that made it op in the first place in chromosome no a 25% range increase skill transversal between all laser rifles would not be a fix....it would be an issue we are looking for buffs particularly to the elm and viziam specifically over the laser rifle..the point is to give an edge to the GEAR not the skills so as to have a reason to use anything other than standard I disagree. It was the base dmg that was the problem in Chromosome. 120m is a reasonable range for a long range weapon. Currently, complex damage mod stacked Duvolle ARs can kill you when they're in your optimal, and the AR is a blaster (I.e. short range). Beam lasers are supposed to be long range weapons. 120m would allow you to out-range ARs, SRs etc while still being extremely vulnerable when < 25m or so. We didn't have duvolles with pinpoint accuracy butchering people before they can react at crazy ranges in chromosome. If we did I don't think the LR would have been considered OP. If they want to differentiate the versions, I would think even slower heat buildup would be good, as would increased clips. Keep the damage where it is. i did not disagree with a range buff nor did i say that 120m was unreasonable i just said that what we want is an improvement to the GEAR not a skill that just makes the laser in general better standard laser is FINE i hopped on earlier ran 22/0 standard amarian assault standard laser...but the adv and proto laser rifles needs an advantage over the standard..a 25 % range increase skill will not solve this because it would just buff the abilities of all the laser rifles... its an equipment improvement im asking for not a skill adjustment the skills are fine. Here you go morte. Enjoy. We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; For he to-day that sheds his blood with me Shall be my brother
Mortedeamor WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL The Ascendancy 582	Posted - 2013.11.02 22:05:00 - [25] - Quote Severance Pay wrote: Mortedeamor wrote: Vell0cet wrote: Mortedeamor wrote: Vell0cet wrote: LR needs sharpshooter skill. At LR Sharpshooter 5, I should hit out to 120m. that is the exact skill when combined with 22 base dmg at the viziam lvl that made it op in the first place in chromosome no a 25% range increase skill transversal between all laser rifles would not be a fix....it would be an issue we are looking for buffs particularly to the elm and viziam specifically over the laser rifle..the point is to give an edge to the GEAR not the skills so as to have a reason to use anything other than standard I disagree. It was the base dmg that was the problem in Chromosome. 120m is a reasonable range for a long range weapon. Currently, complex damage mod stacked Duvolle ARs can kill you when they're in your optimal, and the AR is a blaster (I.e. short range). Beam lasers are supposed to be long range weapons. 120m would allow you to out-range ARs, SRs etc while still being extremely vulnerable when < 25m or so. We didn't have duvolles with pinpoint accuracy butchering people before they can react at crazy ranges in chromosome. If we did I don't think the LR would have been considered OP. If they want to differentiate the versions, I would think even slower heat buildup would be good, as would increased clips. Keep the damage where it is. i did not disagree with a range buff nor did i say that 120m was unreasonable i just said that what we want is an improvement to the GEAR not a skill that just makes the laser in general better standard laser is FINE i hopped on earlier ran 22/0 standard amarian assault standard laser...but the adv and proto laser rifles needs an advantage over the standard..a 25 % range increase skill will not solve this because it would just buff the abilities of all the laser rifles... its an equipment improvement im asking for not a skill adjustment the skills are fine. Here you go morte. Enjoy. aww see thats what im talking about clearly the top one is higher lvl than the lower one
Mortedeamor WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL The Ascendancy 582	Posted - 2013.11.02 22:06:00 - [26] - Quote progression things are supposed to get better as they get more expensive..they are also supposed to look cooler and be shiny..ccp come fix this crapola
CLONE117 Planetary Response Organization Test Friends Please Ignore 442	Posted - 2013.11.02 22:30:00 - [27] - Quote isnt the laser extremely deadly when specced into now any ways? im afraid if it were to get any buff now. we would begin hearing the nerf brigade coming for it.....again...
Greasepalms Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 247	Posted - 2013.11.02 22:49:00 - [28] - Quote laser's fine. Get an amarr assault suit.
Keri Starlight Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1744	Posted - 2013.11.02 23:15:00 - [29] - Quote Actually, I think that the LR is a great weapon. What I believe is wrong about it, it's the non-existent tier progression. There should be some better bonus for the ADV and PRO LR. But seriously, the LR itself is good. -Caldari Achura - One with the Universe -Tac AR Specialist "I load my gun with love instead of bullets"
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 872	Posted - 2013.11.02 23:17:00 - [30] - Quote A Viziam with 2 Complex Damage Modifiers and Proficiency 5 deals around 280 damage a second (it seems to fire at a little over 700 RPM). A Duvolle with 2 Complex Damage Modifiers and Proficiency 5 deals 640 damage a second. A Viziam overheats at 70 rounds or so, damaging the user and forcing them to stop firing until the weapon completely cools down. If it doesn't overheat, the user must manually stop firing. A Viziam has damage build up, but this is not usually a strength. The damage build up is usually a con and a nice way to say that the gun needs to be charged before use. After damage build up (damage goes up by 0.6 every bullet), if we average the damage per second out until overheat, we reach the conclusion that the Viziam deals about the same damage as the Duvolle. However, all of the damage is lumped at the end of the stream. This presents several problems: You must hold the trigger until all rounds are fired, letting go at the last bullet without overheating to achieve this. If you overheat, you're screwed. If you charge it by firing against a wall, you better hope the target hasn't moved when you strafe back out. If an enemy goes into cover for even a second, you need to stop firing to conserve ammo and heat. There goes all your damage. You cannot burst fire the gun once you've reached the boiling point to try to cap your DPS. Damage is tied to shots fired in the same stream, not heat, so you're dealing minimum DPS at probably half speed. You're lucky if you're dealing 140 DPS when bursting. Additionally, the Laser Rifle has an optimal span of 19m. Even a few meters beyond this does 10% damage and ten meters before drops you to half damage IIRC. The Assault Rifle has a 40m optimal span and can easily deal competitive damage out to as far as 50m. Anything that isn't an open field will have few sitelines the right length to consistently stay in optimal range with the Laser Rifle. I main the Laser Rifle and I have to say that you need to really know at all times what general direction the enemy is heading in, what angles they can approach you from and where all the cover they can head to is from said approaches. If you don't, you'll constantly be killed at 50m by Duvolle wielding nutters and everything else. The only exception is when you're on the crest of a hill overlooking a battle on an open field or on a tall building. An enemy will come out from around a corner and I'll need to wait 4 seconds before opening fire if its a proto, because otherwise the player can just turn around and run back around the corner before my Laser can build up and kill them. If they are within 5-10m of cover, I don't even waste ammo anymore unless they are immobile except for suppression. Also, the Laser Rifle deals 50% more damage to shields than armor. This is useful against shield tanks, but makes it extremely difficult to kill anyone with a fair bit of armor. It also is evened out by the damage build up; you're dealing the least base damage when you have a positive modifier to shields and the most damage base damage when you have a negative modifier to armor. Against dual tanks, the efficacy does not even out and you end up dealing less damage per clip. For example, which is greater, 17 + 35 or 117 * 1.2 + 35 * 0.8? You gain a bit of damage on the first shot and lose a lot on the later one. When I see another Laser Rifle user, I either run away 5m and start taking no damage or find a nice rock. Unlike an AR user that can just flank me, the LR must stay almost exactly 75m away, so, unless they feel like strafing for thirty seconds straight to target the other side of the rock, I'm OK. Usually they try to gain a height advantage, making them even more immobile. The Laser Rifle is good when you're in a good squad and can rely on your friends to cover its weaknesses. It's not too hard to kill players that are already engaged in combat and it's range issues can be somewhat mitigated if your team can contain the red dots. At that point, it's target practice. However, it seems like the Rail Rifle will be better at this when it comes out. You lose 10m off the top of your range and gain 65m at the bottom. The DPS is on average higher, without a need to heat up. Unless the recoil is significant and the charge time has a bigger impact than previously thought (as if the Laser Rifle doesn't need to charge), the RR will almost completely supplant the tiny amount of players still using Laser Rifles. Everyone else might be doing 600 DPS at 75m, while we're stuck doing less than 300 DPS, with a quarter of the optimal range span and having to deal with heat and damage build up. The weapons seem to be getting longer ranged with faster TTKs, and so the Laser Rifle's small niche will be completely absorbed if it does not receive a rebalance.



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