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nerfing the swarms range is a really bad idea.

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Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 914	Posted - 2013.11.02 14:17:00 - [1] - Quote just did a faction warfare cbr advanced swarms versus madrugar driven by Fusilador from Corp Armada Hispana results were Fusilador from Corp Armada Hispana 22 kills with ZERO deaths and a mad tech ohm. why?? the madrugar was OUTRUNNING the swarms. so when the swarms range is cut then forget about using swarms for AV. and guess what?? not putting up with two months of tanks going 50 kills with ZERO deaths when 1.7 hits. deleting Dust 514 in a few days. see ya maybe in 2014??
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 46	Posted - 2013.11.02 14:32:00 - [2] - Quote One advanced Swarm Launcher not killing a tank? Oh the travesty! Maybe try using coordination? Not necessarily ganging up with multiple AV users, but using teamwork to pull a tank into a situation where your AV guy can jump out, launch your volley of swarms and a barrage of AV grenades forcing the tank backwards or killing it. Also bear in mind that Swarm Launchers are light weapons while Madrugars are Heavy Attack Vehicles.
KaTaLy5t-87 Shadow Company HQ 116	Posted - 2013.11.02 14:37:00 - [3] - Quote Your initial statement is a good one but then it goes downhill from there. I agree that the range of swarms should not be nerfed, the issue with swarms could addressed by giving tankers some kind of pre-fitted counter measures against swarms, or make it optional it doesn't matter. Some kind of guidance jammer that causes the swarms to lose their lock and obviously miss their target. If someone locks onto your tank you get a lock alarm, if someone then fires missiles you get a different missile lock alarm so you know swarms are on their way. To make it fair and balanced, the counter measures would only last a few seconds (maybe 5?), just enough to allow you to back off into cover or whatever, and then they need to recharge for a time. This would give the tankers a better chance against swarms and it would mean that in order to take out a skilled tanker several AV guys would need to coordinate. Now, on to your final point. I have seen countless people claim that they will delete Dust and never be seen in New Eden again. Some actually follow through, most do not. Don't make a statement on the forums that you aren't going to or can't follow through on, it makes you look like an idiot. Also, don't tell us you are leaving because frankly, nobody cares and neither does CCP. Other than that, good post.
Skihids Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2377	Posted - 2013.11.02 14:46:00 - [4] - Quote All AV range must be cut to support CCP's new vehicle model. Vehicles will have a short period of strength followed by a long cool-down period of vulnerability. AV range cannot extend across the entire map or these newly vulnerable vehicles will have nowhere to retreat to. Don't use the current vehicle model in your comparison because it will not apply when these changes are made.
Ulysses Knapse duna corp 554	Posted - 2013.11.02 15:02:00 - [5] - Quote Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: the madrugar was OUTRUNNING the swarms. What? I'm sorry for asking, but what drugs are you using? I want some. Humanity is the personification of change.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1599	Posted - 2013.11.02 15:56:00 - [6] - Quote Lies A HAV cannot outrun a swarm launcher The only way it may look like it outrunned it is because you were 380m away and the swarms time out at 400m and all the tank had to do was back up Also you tried to solo it like a scrub does, for best results use 2 ppl because it isnt hard
TechMechMeds Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc. 1208	Posted - 2013.11.02 17:57:00 - [7] - Quote Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: just did a faction warfare cbr advanced swarms versus madrugar driven by Fusilador from Corp Armada Hispana results were Fusilador from Corp Armada Hispana 22 kills with ZERO deaths and a mad tech ohm. why?? the madrugar was OUTRUNNING the swarms. so when the swarms range is cut then forget about using swarms for AV. and guess what?? not putting up with two months of tanks going 50 kills with ZERO deaths when 1.7 hits. deleting Dust 514 in a few days. see ya maybe in 2014?? Use decent av nades. Level 1 forum warrior. Minmatar and Gallente fw. Fix PC lag please CCP.
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 1074	Posted - 2013.11.02 17:59:00 - [8] - Quote all av/vehicles are broken... all of them the best thing they could do is take it all out, rework it, MAKE SURE IT WORKS AS INTENDED, and put it back in. with the exception of militia LAVs and packed av nades... they are the only things that work well...
Evane Sa'edi Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 77	Posted - 2013.11.02 19:46:00 - [9] - Quote What is the logic behind CCP's weapon development policy?? Milatary policy would be for bigger, better and more efficient weapon systems NOT cutting range on sub-par anti-armour weapons so that they are less than useless. Unless there are plans to cut the range of all vehicle mounted weapons by the same amount, at the same time, it would be a gient leap backwards in weapon development.
Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 914	Posted - 2013.11.02 22:45:00 - [10] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Lies A HAV cannot outrun a swarm launcher The only way it may look like it outrunned it is because you were 380m away and the swarms time out at 400m and all the tank had to do was back up Also you tried to solo it like a scrub does, for best results use 2 ppl because it isnt hard your post has ZERO relevance to a discussion on tank SPEED learn to READ.............scrub. distance 150 m madrugar outran swarms speeder fit soma or madrugar can out run a lav and swarms for five to seven seconds fast tanks are a reality the same as basic laser 84m elm 84m viziam laser 84m games unbalanced

True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 3872	Posted - 2013.11.02 22:49:00 - [11] - Quote Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: just did a faction warfare cbr advanced swarms versus madrugar driven by Fusilador from Corp Armada Hispana results were Fusilador from Corp Armada Hispana 22 kills with ZERO deaths and a mad tech ohm. why?? the madrugar was OUTRUNNING the swarms. so when the swarms range is cut then forget about using swarms for AV. and guess what?? not putting up with two months of tanks going 50 kills with ZERO deaths when 1.7 hits. deleting Dust 514 in a few days. see ya maybe in 2014?? So the guy if good what of it. I was in a FW match getting hit from 400m away with no sign of the enemy because they wouldn't render. I went 24/1 and half the time was running away, that wasn't down to my tank being OP, I was up against some insanely potent Avers, it was down to using the tank right. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 914	Posted - 2013.11.02 22:50:00 - [12] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: just did a faction warfare cbr advanced swarms versus madrugar driven by Fusilador from Corp Armada Hispana results were Fusilador from Corp Armada Hispana 22 kills with ZERO deaths and a mad tech ohm. why?? the madrugar was OUTRUNNING the swarms. so when the swarms range is cut then forget about using swarms for AV. and guess what?? not putting up with two months of tanks going 50 kills with ZERO deaths when 1.7 hits. deleting Dust 514 in a few days. see ya maybe in 2014?? Use decent av nades. ummm no sorry but for tank killing I prefer three Ishukone assault forge guns why? swarms are too SLOW and the range is getting cut? yeah. forge guns all the way.
Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 914	Posted - 2013.11.02 22:55:00 - [13] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: just did a faction warfare cbr advanced swarms versus madrugar driven by Fusilador from Corp Armada Hispana results were Fusilador from Corp Armada Hispana 22 kills with ZERO deaths and a mad tech ohm. why?? the madrugar was OUTRUNNING the swarms. so when the swarms range is cut then forget about using swarms for AV. and guess what?? not putting up with two months of tanks going 50 kills with ZERO deaths when 1.7 hits. deleting Dust 514 in a few days. see ya maybe in 2014?? So the guy if good what of it. I was in a FW match getting hit from 400m away with no sign of the enemy because they wouldn't render. I went 24/1 and half the time was running away, that wasn't down to my tank being OP, I was up against some insanely potent Avers, it was down to using the tank right. there was a build where dropships outran swarms and were very hard to kill with a forge gun. dropships went 120 and 0 in that build . and if 1.7 means tankers go 50 kills with ZERO deaths then hey see ya maybe in 2014?
castba Penguin's March 168	Posted - 2013.11.02 23:11:00 - [14] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: One advanced Swarm Launcher not killing a tank? Oh the travesty! Yet tankers complain when one proto forge gunner makes them run or destroys their poorly fitted STD or MLT tank. Can't have it both ways.
Beld Errmon The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 1071	Posted - 2013.11.03 00:33:00 - [15] - Quote If tanks could outrun swarms my dropship would never ever get hit by swarms, yet it does, yes i can outrun them with my AB on at half to full tilt, but in general they are faster then my dropships average movement speed. Why don't you do some primary research tech, drive some tanks and tell me how easy out running swarms in a tank is, till then I'm calling BS, currently a swarm launcher can sit on a tower and cover 800m of the map completely destroying any tank that doesn't realise hes up there till its too late. My experience as a tanker tells me that even with a nitrous running swarms will follow me around a corner and often fly straight through large rocks and some objects to hit me, and thats if im lucky enough to even see them get fired thanks to terrible rendering.
Skihids Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2380	Posted - 2013.11.03 00:48:00 - [16] - Quote Evane Sa'edi wrote: What is the logic behind CCP's weapon development policy?? Milatary policy would be for bigger, better and more efficient weapon systems NOT cutting range on sub-par anti-armour weapons so that they are less than useless. Unless there are plans to cut the range of all vehicle mounted weapons by the same amount, at the same time, it would be a gient leap backwards in weapon development. CCP is not a military developer, it's a game developer. It's not trying to kill anyone, it's trying to make a balanced game.
Mobius Wyvern Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 3781	Posted - 2013.11.03 03:07:00 - [17] - Quote Honestly, the only thing the Swarm Launcher needs now is faster missiles. They do less damage and the lock range has been reduced, so why not boost the speed? Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Cosgar ParagonX 7025	Posted - 2013.11.03 04:24:00 - [18] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Honestly, the only thing the Swarm Launcher needs now is faster missiles. They do less damage and the lock range has been reduced, so why not boost the speed? If that were to happen, make swarms into tow missiles so you have to manually track a target. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 7033	Posted - 2013.11.03 07:03:00 - [19] - Quote This is one of the reasons why swarm range is getting nerfed in the first place. (All credit goes to Judge Rhadamanthus) I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Paran Tadec Ancient Exiles 1552	Posted - 2013.11.03 10:30:00 - [20] - Quote Cosgar wrote: This is one of the reasons why swarm range is getting nerfed in the first place. (All credit goes to Judge Rhadamanthus) Remove redline. Add countermeasures. Bittervet Proficiency V thanks logibro!

Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 615	Posted - 2013.11.03 10:49:00 - [21] - Quote The big issue with players like the OP is the logic gap in the thinking of him and any similar poster. I ask this. Does every single attempt to kill with with a duvalle; kill every lesser geared player they shoot at? The answer is no. Why do swarm players have the expectation that they should be different? That if they manage to lock on then thats it, they win? It's an expectation without foundation. I use a suit with 180/180, no extenders or plates or even skills to boost that figure. Yet many proto duvalle players fail to kill me even though they open fire on me. Why? They shoot from too far away, I have given myself good cover, I see them coming and prepare, I can run as I don't let my stamina run low. Why should AV be any different? Op your expectations are unrealistic and a game based on that thinking would be unplayable. Also OP the swarms range is the same. 400m. It is the lock on that has changed. You have your facts wrong. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Keri Starlight Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1767	Posted - 2013.11.03 11:28:00 - [22] - Quote Mmh... the OP is too "QQish" to post a serious answer, I guess you won't be listening anyway. Just remember that HAV's speed is going down too in 1.7. The immense AV range is the main problem behind vehicle unbalance, if you ask me. Right now, both Swarms and FG can hit anywhere anytime and overlook multiple objectives without moving. To be fair, the Forge Gun could use some damage fall-off too. -Caldari Achura - One with the Universe -Tac AR Specialist "I load my gun with love instead of bullets"
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Kinsho Swords Caldari State 49	Posted - 2013.11.03 11:56:00 - [23] - Quote The only problem that swarms have , is that I find myself spending more time moving around and missing attack moments because my swarm locks on to EVERYTHING that's of an enemy color , when I know what I am trying to destroy but that swarm doesn't so it locks on ONLY to the color . By the time I'm finished moving around ( if I haven't gotten myself killed by then because I'm trying to get the lock off ) the object has gotten away . The swarms are still strong but their range HAS went down but I guess it's just something that has to be adjusted to . " Doubts are like flies and should be crushed !!!!!! " I hope that I am THE FLY SWATTER of those in my presence .
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Kinsho Swords Caldari State 49	Posted - 2013.11.03 12:00:00 - [24] - Quote Keri Starlight wrote: Mmh... the OP is too "QQish" to post a serious answer, I guess you won't be listening anyway. Just remember that HAV's speed is going down too in 1.7. The immense AV range is the main problem behind vehicle unbalance, if you ask me. Right now, both Swarms and FG can hit anywhere anytime and overlook multiple objectives without moving. To be fair, the Forge Gun could use some damage fall-off too. I have made that statement SO many times about the forge gun . It's a shame but I can't understand why It's more powerful than 90 percent if not all of the rail gun turrets . Now that's unbalanced . I mean why drive a tank when you can walk in one ???? And it will save you a TON of skill points . " Doubts are like flies and should be crushed !!!!!! " I hope that I am THE FLY SWATTER of those in my presence .
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 48	Posted - 2013.11.03 12:44:00 - [25] - Quote castba wrote: Kallas Hallytyr wrote: One advanced Swarm Launcher not killing a tank? Oh the travesty! Yet tankers complain when one proto forge gunner makes them run or destroys their poorly fitted STD or MLT tank. Can't have it both ways. I can definitely see the point that AV should be able to kill tanks, but it should not be a simple job for a single Merc to destroy a tank. Proto heavy AV (ie, Heavy AV weapons like Forge Guns and future heavy weapons) should definitely be a massive threat to Standard and Advanced level tanks, which is why it's currently an imbalance issue: there is no counter to Prototype AV, because vehicles only have access to low-/mid-level hulls. This is why the ground-up rework of both vehicles and AV is a good things. Sure, the swarm change will hurt for the month or so until 1.7, but not as much as every DS pilot has felt when they've been destroyed with impunity by an advanced Swarmer from half a planet away because their entire payload connects before you can reasonably react and get into cover. To respond to your post more succinctly, poorly fit and/or STD/MLT vehicles should die to fairly decent Prototype AVers without much fuss: if they're using badly optimised vehicles then they should go down easily! If, however, you're looking at a full decked out Advanced/Prototype tank versus a good Prototype AV merc, you should be having a pretty back and forth duel: the AVer should be able to threaten the tanker but not immediately wipe it from the battlefield. Conversely, the Prototype tanker should be able to threaten their chosen target (ie, anti-personnel turrets should be extremely dominating when pitted against groups of infantry; anti-vehicle turrets should be powerful versus vehicles) and able to withstand STD/ADV AV reasonably well but must be threatened into caution by Prototype AV lest they get ambushed. With the 1.7 change in how Hardeners/Reps, etc work, we should see periods of incredible power but also periods of incredible vulnerability (relatively speaking) - my only concern is the potential stacking of defensive modules (mostly looking at Hardeners) and being able to have one active while a second cools down. But that will be something to examine and discuss when 1.7 drops.
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 1698	Posted - 2013.11.03 13:03:00 - [26] - Quote I really think everyone needs to chill out about AV/vehicle changes and see how things play out when we actually get to try it all out in a month's time. Also, swarm launcher range has not been announced to be nerfed in the slightest. Swarm lock on range is being reduced. If you're firing swarms from 150m away and the tank manages to get away, then that's pretty damn good tanking because that's around 200m of running to out run the swarm range. And anyone talking about the forge guns, we still don't know if their damage is being nerfed too, so let's wait and see before making snap judgements. Dust2Dust - Funeral arrangements for all of New Eden. Join our public channel D2D. to chat and squad with us.
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 1698	Posted - 2013.11.03 13:05:00 - [27] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: With the 1.7 change in how Hardeners/Reps, etc work, we should see periods of incredible power but also periods of incredible vulnerability (relatively speaking) - my only concern is the potential stacking of defensive modules (mostly looking at Hardeners) and being able to have one active while a second cools down. But that will be something to examine and discuss when 1.7 drops. Aren't certain active modules listed as only being able to fit one? Also, the lack of slots now will make stacking anything pretty difficult. Dust2Dust - Funeral arrangements for all of New Eden. Join our public channel D2D. to chat and squad with us.
Godin Thekiller Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 1389	Posted - 2013.11.03 13:27:00 - [28] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Kallas Hallytyr wrote: With the 1.7 change in how Hardeners/Reps, etc work, we should see periods of incredible power but also periods of incredible vulnerability (relatively speaking) - my only concern is the potential stacking of defensive modules (mostly looking at Hardeners) and being able to have one active while a second cools down. But that will be something to examine and discuss when 1.7 drops. Aren't certain active modules listed as only being able to fit one? Also, the lack of slots now will make stacking anything pretty difficult. No, you can stack an active module non-pilot. 'lights cigar' fuck with me, and I'll melt your face off. Gallente forever!
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1182	Posted - 2013.11.03 19:07:00 - [29] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: all av/vehicles are broken... all of them the best thing they could do is take it all out, rework it, MAKE SURE IT WORKS AS INTENDED, and put it back in. with the exception of militia LAVs and packed av nades... they are the only things that work well... You're saying that just because you want all vehicles removed from the game, permanently. Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1182	Posted - 2013.11.03 19:08:00 - [30] - Quote Evane Sa'edi wrote: What is the logic behind CCP's weapon development policy?? Milatary policy would be for bigger, better and more efficient weapon systems NOT cutting range on sub-par anti-armour weapons so that they are less than useless. Unless there are plans to cut the range of all vehicle mounted weapons by the same amount, at the same time, it would be a gient leap backwards in weapon development. Sub-par? Less than useless? ~2000 against unprotected armor by an AV grenade, and ~3500 against unprotected armor by swarms begs to differ. You're just not good enough. Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.



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