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Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising
1318
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Posted - 2013.10.31 00:51:00 -
[31] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:Patrick57 wrote:I JUST HAD AN IDEA OMG
A GOLD SHOTGUN for the Amarr version!
:D I don't think shotguns will fit into the Amarrian weapon ideology. Much like in their culture Amarrians prefer to be pin-point and precise. Using "gods" holy light to vanquish their enemies. Maybe if it was like a Slug round. A huge intense short pulse of light that decimates enemies shielding. it would be awesome and look amazing. |
Shotty GoBang
Pro Hic Immortalis
1863
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Posted - 2013.10.31 01:11:00 -
[32] - Quote
Personal Opinions:
Standard Shotgun: We won't know if it is balanced or not until it performs reliably (hopefully by 1.6). Breach Shotgun: Needs work. |
Aleksander Black
Immortal Retribution
238
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Posted - 2013.10.31 01:20:00 -
[33] - Quote
Definitely not UP. They scare the **** out of me.
Although I believe that it requires skill, even when they get hit detection on spot, but that's how things are supposed to be after all: people that know what they are doing with a good weapon will take it to another level of lethality, be it the SG or something else. |
OZAROW
WarRavens League of Infamy
1006
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Posted - 2013.10.31 01:36:00 -
[34] - Quote
Shotty GoBang wrote:Patrick57 wrote:I understand the Shotgun has bad hit detection, but if the hit detection issues were ever fixed, who would say that the shotgun is "Balanced," or at the very least, not UP? King Thunderbolt -- an outspoken authority on the subject -- has indicated the following (paraphrased): The problem with the Shotgun is based primarily upon the weight of the Shotgun. It is not underpowered or overpowered, but is absolutely underpowered, except for the times when it is overpowered. But all the time, it is not heavy enough to be a real-life video-game Shotgun. When CCP makes the Shotgun heavier, not a heavy weapon but a light weapon, like Shotguns should be in concept, then people won't complain about the Shotgun. Because of its weight.King Thunderbolt has Evidence which not only explains but proves the above weight problem with the Shotgun. I admit to having had difficulty following his logic, and would very much like to learn more. Wut lol! I speakith in thamost unlikely mess of all riddles!
=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ SUPER FORUM SAIYAN 3 KaaaamEeeHHAAAAMmmMAHHHAAAAAHH! |
Dexter307
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
513
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Posted - 2013.10.31 01:38:00 -
[35] - Quote
Imo they just need a bit of a range buff Id make the normal shotguns optimal 8m and the breaches optimal 10m |
Ghost Kaisar
R 0 N 1 N
713
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Posted - 2013.10.31 02:14:00 -
[36] - Quote
Patrick57 wrote:Soldner VonKuechle wrote:You honestly think a guy with 83 YouTube subs and nearly 700 videos can be bothered to reply on a forum where the actual dust players are? No.
Just remember, the shotgun isn't up because hit detection/misfire/range no no no, It's up because it's not heavy enough.
That's right, it needs more weight.
Heh. Deleted :D
Same here
"All war is deception." "He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot, will be victorious" -Sun Tzu
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Aqua-Regia
492
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Posted - 2013.10.31 02:16:00 -
[37] - Quote
Patrick57 wrote:Sgt Kirk wrote:I honestly think the Shotguns need more range. I find myself getting one shotted at 10 meters by a Shotgun. I don't know if it's because I suck or not lol This
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Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
627
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Posted - 2013.10.31 02:24:00 -
[38] - Quote
Shotty GoBang wrote:Patrick57 wrote:I understand the Shotgun has bad hit detection, but if the hit detection issues were ever fixed, who would say that the shotgun is "Balanced," or at the very least, not UP? King Thunderbolt -- an outspoken authority on the subject -- has indicated the following (paraphrased): The problem with the Shotgun is based primarily upon the weight of the Shotgun. It is not underpowered or overpowered, but is absolutely underpowered, except for the times when it is overpowered. But all the time, it is not heavy enough to be a real-life video-game Shotgun. When CCP makes the Shotgun heavier, not a heavy weapon but a light weapon, like Shotguns should be in concept, then people won't complain about the Shotgun. Because of its weight.King Thunderbolt has Evidence which not only explains but proves the above weight problem with the Shotgun. I admit to having had difficulty following his logic, and would very much like to learn more.
I love this. This is like Joseph Keller's prose in Catch 22 |
Atiim
Living Like Larry Schwag
472
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Posted - 2013.10.31 02:25:00 -
[39] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Patrick57 wrote:I understand the Shotgun has bad hit detection, but if the hit detection issues were ever fixed, who would say that the shotgun is "Balanced," or at the very least, not UP? BALANCED AS HELL. Its ******* epic! Yeah until you get Freedom'd by someone who turned around and say you in a scout suit
I am everything
AV, Tanker, Logi, Scout, Heavy, and so much more
This is the setup of those who are unbiased
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Patrick57
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
1131
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Posted - 2013.10.31 02:27:00 -
[40] - Quote
Atiim wrote:True Adamance wrote:Patrick57 wrote:I understand the Shotgun has bad hit detection, but if the hit detection issues were ever fixed, who would say that the shotgun is "Balanced," or at the very least, not UP? BALANCED AS HELL. Its ******* epic! Yeah until you get Freedom'd by someone who turned around and say you in a scout suit Seriously You make WAY too many posts about how you have a Freedom Mass Driver and Proficiency 5. How about in every post I make, I boast about having a Duvolle?
:D
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Patrick57
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
1146
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Posted - 2013.10.31 02:28:00 -
[41] - Quote
Patrick57 wrote:Atiim wrote:True Adamance wrote:Patrick57 wrote:I understand the Shotgun has bad hit detection, but if the hit detection issues were ever fixed, who would say that the shotgun is "Balanced," or at the very least, not UP? BALANCED AS HELL. Its ******* epic! Yeah until you get Freedom'd by someone who turned around and say you in a scout suit Seriously You make WAY too many posts about how you have a Freedom Mass Driver and Proficiency 5. How about in every post I make, I boast about having a Duvolle? And by the way.......
Your Min Logi is nothing compared to my Duvolle with Proficiency 4 and 0 complex Damage Mods!
:D
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Rusty Shallows
Black Jackals
452
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Posted - 2013.10.31 03:26:00 -
[42] - Quote
Hit Detection and the Weapon's Combat Utility might as well be two separate unknown variables. A question that can't be answered in a definitive way. I've been in a similar spot with the HMGs. They seem off but nailing it down is hard when there are so few games when the hits register.
That being said I'm still seeing more HMGs than Shotguns in Pubs. So assuming they have the same degree of hit detection issues then it's possible shotguns are underpowered. However it is just as possible someone really borked the code on them soon as it is cleared we'll see "nerf shotgun," threads again.
"She may not be Miss Right but she'll do right now," Thank you SR-71
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GET ATMESON
Dem Durrty Boyz Public Disorder.
154
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Posted - 2013.10.31 03:39:00 -
[43] - Quote
Patrick57 wrote:I understand the Shotgun has bad hit detection, but if the hit detection issues were ever fixed, who would say that the shotgun is "Balanced," or at the very least, not UP?
I dont want shottys to get a buff because once Heavy suits are usable AGAIN. I will fear the shotty if it gets a buff. Tbh tho the shotguns are like toy guns. They are UP. I would like to see it fixed. Will suck for me but personal gain isnt worth a game lacking in an area.
Get your shotty buffed and my heavy suit fixed so we can fight it out! |
Shotty GoBang
Pro Hic Immortalis
1869
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Posted - 2013.10.31 04:01:00 -
[44] - Quote
GET ATMESON wrote: Get your shotty buffed and my heavy suit fixed so we can fight it out!
Amen to that, my fat brother! |
General John Ripper
MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN.
11461
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Posted - 2013.10.31 04:04:00 -
[45] - Quote
My shotgun is hungry but its underpowered :( Fix hit detection!
Dust 514's #1 Forum Warrior
Founder of the Forum Warrior Club
King of Tacos
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GET ATMESON
Dem Durrty Boyz Public Disorder.
157
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Posted - 2013.10.31 04:13:00 -
[46] - Quote
Shotty GoBang wrote:GET ATMESON wrote: Get your shotty buffed and my heavy suit fixed so we can fight it out!
Amen to that, my fat brother!
Amen! |
KING CHECKMATE
AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS
2190
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Posted - 2013.10.31 04:17:00 -
[47] - Quote
General John Ripper wrote:My shotgun is hungry but its underpowered :( Fix hit detection!
I hate it when i sneak behind someone , SHOOT AT HIM , hit detection fails , and i get killed.
Its like , WHy?! i did everything correctly ... u.u
And then there is CCP , looking down on my tears and laughing... : /
u+Élop s-¦ -Äll+Én-ç+ö+É
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Keri Starlight
Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1647
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Posted - 2013.10.31 04:59:00 -
[48] - Quote
If hit detection is going to be fixed, there is no way Shotgun will be underpowered... when it happens to work properly (rarely), it melts faces...
-Caldari Achura - One with the Universe
-Tac AR Specialist
"I load my gun with love instead of bullets"
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Foxbat 072
Oberon Orbital Operations
53
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Posted - 2013.10.31 04:59:00 -
[49] - Quote
SGs could use a little more range. It always seems like there's that last sliver of health the gun can't seem to reach. |
IgniteableAura
Pro Hic Immortalis
268
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Posted - 2013.10.31 14:08:00 -
[50] - Quote
Honestly, time will tell come tuesday. I am looking forward to testing it out again. I am hopeful but not all that optimistic for a complete fix.
All weapons seem to have HD issues, so if they are equally improving across the board, ARs might instagib before scouts even have a chance at closing the range.
OG shotgun is pretty well balanced if the shots stop disappearing. Breach could use some small hugs. Currently not much advantage to using it other than to warm up and improve your aim/patience. In my experience, what you can kill with one shot with breach you can kill easier with two shots from the OG.
PHI Recruitment
or PHIsh Tank in game
Twitch
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Shotty GoBang
Pro Hic Immortalis
1875
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Posted - 2013.10.31 14:13:00 -
[51] - Quote
Foxbat 072 wrote:SGs could use a little more range. It always seems like there's that last sliver of health the gun can't seem to reach. Agreed.
Less drop-off and/or a meter or two added range would likely suffice. Nothing on scale with Chromosome though. Peppering mercs half-way-across-the-map was a tad redongculous.
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Kaughst
0uter.Heaven Proficiency V.
19
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Posted - 2013.10.31 14:56:00 -
[52] - Quote
Shotty GoBang wrote:Foxbat 072 wrote:SGs could use a little more range. It always seems like there's that last sliver of health the gun can't seem to reach. Agreed. Less drop-off and/or a meter or two added range would likely suffice. Nothing on scale with Chromosome though. Peppering mercs half-way-across-the-map was a tad redongculous.
They mentioned more shotgun variances this year at Fanfest. Having a Minmatar shotgun that racially has more range than Gallente weapons of the same category could offer this alternative.
Kaughst, kost, kogist, kaust, kahst, kog. I go by many names. Mostly because people do not know how to pronounce my name
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Eldest Dragon
0uter.Heaven Proficiency V.
198
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Posted - 2013.10.31 15:03:00 -
[53] - Quote
OZAROW wrote:The sg an nk are supposed to be fixed next patch. I think that a proto an damage mods should drop med frames in one shot if the range is what it is. But sometimes it takes 3 to a starter fit an their ar still kills you in under a sec. But if they increase the range an fix hit detection all the good shotgunners are gonna be the reason in two weeks your gonna see AR users posting shotguns are op threads everywhere.
We're used to them being crap so just wait till the patch cuz if they end up working as good as they should, shottys are gonna scare the crap out of people cuz people that don't use them have no clue how broken they are and their gonna be crying when they work.
Good scouts have no problem sneaking an getting the shot, the only reason targets are living through this is because of busted detection, so they have no clue how deadly life's gonna be in a week if the patch works an every shot lands.
=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ=ƒöÑ SUPER FORUM SAIYAN 3 KaaaamEeeHHAAAAMmmMAHHHAAAAAHH!
Ozarow bro, I actually tried sg's out on an alt, and was like fk this glad I tried it first, but hopefully the hit detection fixes make em good. I'm already specing into a scout right now, and originally was doing it for nova knives, so who knows this patch might work out great for me. |
CLONE117
Planetary Response Organization Test Friends Please Ignore
438
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Posted - 2013.10.31 15:14:00 -
[54] - Quote
shot guns would be the most powerful if they had their hit detection fixed.
i can do fine with it.
all though the ohk seems to only happen at point blank range. |
Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
506
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Posted - 2013.10.31 15:27:00 -
[55] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:Patrick57 wrote:I JUST HAD AN IDEA OMG
A GOLD SHOTGUN for the Amarr version!
:D I don't think shotguns will fit into the Amarrian weapon ideology. Much like in their culture Amarrians prefer to be pin-point and precise. Using "gods" holy light to vanquish their enemies. Maybe if it was like a Slug round. A huge intense short pulse of light that decimates enemies shielding.
So if CCP did go ahead with racial shotguns, would they be like this?
Gallente - The current shotgun - Short-ranged high damage Minmatar - Lower spread, lower damge per shot automatic shotgun Amarr - Laser slugs - High damage, very accurate, low ROF, low clip capacity Caldari - Elephant gun - single shot clip, very high damage, very accurate, high reload time (for a light weapon) |
Cass Caul
Namtar Elite Gallente Federation
207
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Posted - 2013.10.31 18:43:00 -
[56] - Quote
Honestly, as a someone who runs Shotgun in PC I think it needs some serious re-balancing. The Duvolle AR is still a better CQC weapon. It isn't hit-detection, it's the range on the shotgun. Simply back-pedaling when you know someone with a shotgun is there is going to be enough to get out of optimal range while you gun them down.
The skills associated with shotguns are not good. Shotgun Operations: "3% reduction to shotgun spread." Proficiency with the shotgun is : "3% reduction in rate of fire per level." Rapid Reload and fitting optimizations are the same as everyone else's 1) We hope that it actually mean we fire faster because the wording says proficiency makes it take longer to fire. 2) The HK4M, once a favorite of mine because you could use it without skilling into shotguns, is useless. The dispersion on a shotgun without skill is so ridiculous is is nearly useless. 3) Proficiency 5 increases Rate of Fire from 85.71 to 98.56, or 1 shot every 0.7 seconds to 1 shot every 0.6 seconds on the normal and Rate of Fire from 60 RPM to 69, or 1 shot every second to 1 shot every 0.87 seconds. . . This is not a significant change for the SP investment 4) Rapid Reload is similarly uncostly. Rapid Reload V saves you 0.09 seconds per bullet (total 8) from 0.6 seconds to 0.51 seconds on the regular and from 1.3 seconds per bullet to 1.11 seconds. 5) fitting optimization, proto has 14 pg... like many others it doesn't really do anything
My dragonfly scout runs 1 basic shield extender, shotgun, scrambler pistol, compact nanohive, complex kinetic catalyzer, enhanced repair module. It has 104 shields and 162 armor. The STD shotgun and STD breach shotgun are balanced around damage for STD suits. The Standard shotgun, if all pellets hit, does 400-480 damage (each pellet does 40 damage, 10-12 pellets).
My Scout gk.0 runs 115 shields and 404 armor and does 440-528 with a PRO shotgun The weapon damage does not scale with suit eHP
The Alloteck Breach cannot kill a prototype suit without a headshot. It is getting a bit ridiculous to run into a Gal and Cal logi or a heavy, score 2 direct hits, and panic as I chose whether to run or try and finish them off with a sidearm... but I usually don't get either choice and it's been 3 seconds and a Duvolle AR, a Freedom/Boundless Mass Driver, or HMG has already killed me. The Breach in the description says it is better at ranged attack compared to the regular, but optimal range is 10 or less.
Scouts, Shotguns, and Sniper Rifles are very underpowered in this game. They were balanced last build, but in the 6 months Uprising they are need some love |
Shotty GoBang
Pro Hic Immortalis
1883
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Posted - 2013.10.31 18:50:00 -
[57] - Quote
Appia Vibbia / Cass Caul wrote: Excellent writeup.
Agreed.
Shotguns and corresponding Skills scale quite poorly when compared to those of other weapons. |
Ares 514
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
108
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Posted - 2013.10.31 18:57:00 -
[58] - Quote
Shotty GoBang wrote:Appia Vibbia / Cass Caul wrote: Excellent writeup.
Agreed. Shotguns and corresponding Skills scale quite poorly when compared to those of other weapons.
I completely agree on this one. Also the skills on the SG leave a lot to be desired compared to other weapon types. |
Cass Caul
Namtar Elite Gallente Federation
208
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Posted - 2013.10.31 19:16:00 -
[59] - Quote
Also just to clarify my point, at 13m away my shotgun has 34% efficacy |
Flint Beastgood III
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
282
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Posted - 2013.10.31 20:34:00 -
[60] - Quote
Shotty GoBang wrote:Appia Vibbia / Cass Caul wrote: Excellent writeup.
Agreed. Shotguns and corresponding Skills scale quite poorly when compared to those of other weapons.
Agreed.
Gÿó +¦ +¦ Gÿó
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