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Mortedeamor
Internal Rebellion
439
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 11:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
has nothing to do with it not being a usable weapon the laser is excellent my fav weapon in closed beta always has been witth only time it was unusable was when they put iron sights on it. the laser is to long range to be usable with iron sights.
the real issue lies right here
stnd laser rifle adv elm laser proto viziam 17 dmg 17dmg 17dmg 53.73 accuracy 53.73 accuracy 53.73 accuracy clip 100 clip 100 clip 100 max ammo 500 max ammo 500 max ammo 500 reload 4s reload 4s reload 4s heat build 21 heat build19.95 heat build 18.90 cool down 5s cool down 5s cool down 5s seize 7s seize 7s seize 7s feedback 150 feedback 202.5 feedback 225
fitting req fitting req fitting req 53/5 72/8 92/10 cost 1,500isk cost10,770 cost47,220 the only improvement through higher gear is heat build and only by 2.1
where as feedback is is huge and the fitting req are almost double all around for proto
no sane gamer that desired to use the LR would ever use any rifle other than the laser rifle stnd skilled on the proto amarian ccp
so neg traits that get worse as you skill are feedback fitting req cost ..is that really worth 2.1 heat cost difference ? does anyone think it is? personally i think playing sober would improve my laser gun game more than using a proto over stnd LR lol |
ChromeBreaker
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
1384
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 11:36:00 -
[2] - Quote
have... have you ever actually used a viziam laser rifle? |
Mortedeamor
Internal Rebellion
439
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 11:39:00 -
[3] - Quote
ChromeBreaker wrote:have... have you ever actually used a vizam laser rifle? yes in closed beta and now the difference is not worth the negative trait they are just not currently i am running sntd laser on adv amarian assault with adv smg..and i can tell ya now it will be even better on proto..i have the viziam already it sucks there is practically no difference
and i am have prof 3 on my laser
been using it for all of dust except when they gave it iron sights
lr and md and smg have always been my logi's main weapons |
ChromeBreaker
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
1384
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 11:42:00 -
[4] - Quote
...
Ok take your viziam, add 2 complex dmg mods... and if you still dont get it... hope for a respec
Give me the same and i would be very very happy |
Echoist
Fenrir's Wolves DARKSTAR ARMY
86
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Posted - 2013.10.14 11:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
ChromeBreaker wrote:have... have you ever actually used a viziam laser rifle?
The viziam just isn't worth using just to be able to fire for a few more seconds, plus the extra damage that you would see would only be seen nearing the end of your clip and by that time that person would have already been dead. Its better to save the fitting req and isk and just get a much better sidearm since that is the laser's greatest weakness. |
Mortedeamor
Internal Rebellion
439
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 11:44:00 -
[6] - Quote
ChromeBreaker wrote:...
Ok take your viziam, add 2 complex dmg mods... and if you still dont get it... hope for a respec
Give me the same and i would be very very happy lol still not worth it 2 dmg mods does the exact same thing to the laser they have the same dmg rating..and personally with the stnd it is easier to put it to burn up mode. the difference in heat build up is not worth the fitting pg and cpu you save from running stnd.
let alone the over heat..not that i worry about that i rarely over heat |
Mortedeamor
Internal Rebellion
439
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 11:45:00 -
[7] - Quote
Echoist wrote:ChromeBreaker wrote:have... have you ever actually used a viziam laser rifle? The viziam just isn't worth using just to be able to fire for a few more seconds, plus the extra damage that you would see would only be seen nearing the end of your clip and by that time that person would have already been dead. Its better to save the fitting req and isk and just get a much better sidearm since that is the laser's greatest weakness. my point exactly proto amarian assault proto smg std laser is the way to go |
Mortedeamor
Internal Rebellion
439
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 11:47:00 -
[8] - Quote
the skills are worth 10x more than the weapon you unlock lol |
Echoist
Fenrir's Wolves DARKSTAR ARMY
86
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 11:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
ChromeBreaker wrote:...
Ok take your viziam, add 2 complex dmg mods... and if you still dont get it... hope for a respec
Give me the same and i would be very very happy The damage would literally be the same except for when nearing the overheat, but by then you either have to pull out of that engagement because you've taken too much damage yourself, your target has either fled or closed the gap between him and you, or your target is already dead cause the majority of dust players shield tank for the most part. |
Mortedeamor
Internal Rebellion
439
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 11:57:00 -
[10] - Quote
Echoist wrote:ChromeBreaker wrote:...
Ok take your viziam, add 2 complex dmg mods... and if you still dont get it... hope for a respec
Give me the same and i would be very very happy The damage would literally be the same except for when nearing the overheat, but by then you either have to pull out of that engagement because you've taken too much damage yourself, your target has either fled or closed the gap between him and you, or your target is already dead cause the majority of dust players shield tank for the most part. not for me lol my over heat does 150 lol and i tend to strafe triage hives :) and i prefer to close the gap and pull out that proto smg flux combo |
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Marc Rime
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
185
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Posted - 2013.10.14 14:34:00 -
[11] - Quote
You left out the most important difference -- Viziam looks a lot better than the ELM-3 or standard. |
Mortedeamor
Internal Rebellion
441
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 14:36:00 -
[12] - Quote
sorry ccp but im not an eve fan girl there needs to be more than just "better looking" for me to use it with those drawbacks |
Flix Keptick
Red Star. EoN.
756
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 14:42:00 -
[13] - Quote
I thought the damage ramped up faster on the viziam? |
Marston VC
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
1057
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 15:02:00 -
[14] - Quote
ChromeBreaker wrote:...
Ok take your viziam, add 2 complex dmg mods... and if you still dont get it... hope for a respec
Give me the same and i would be very very happy
Chrome. Using damage mods on the viziam or LR don't make a difference because both weapons have the same damage out-put. Hes complaining that the ONLY difference between the standard LR and proto LR is that at lvl 5 amar one overheats about 1-2 seconds faster then the other with a price difference of around 30X less then the one that heats up slower.
Your paying a premium price for an advantage that many would hardly consider a worth while advantage.
I would consider using the ELM over the viziam just because the difference in heat build up is hardly anything, but at least you get to fit more onto your proto suits. and if you remember me from chromosome chrome, then you should understand what im saying actually has some weight under because im somewhat of a laser specialist.......
Personally im a perfectionist so if I can fit the viziam onto my proto amar suit, then im going to do it. But most people can get away with using an ELM or even the LR, and if you do it right you could be even more potent on the battlefield then a viziam user anyway. So really it all comes down to how savy people are with their suits and fittings.
But overall I agree witht he OP, I would like there to be more of a difference, like increased range for example! Or possibly a faster heat cool down! Or less feedback damage! One of those three anyway....... |
Marston VC
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
1057
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 15:04:00 -
[15] - Quote
Echoist wrote:ChromeBreaker wrote:...
Ok take your viziam, add 2 complex dmg mods... and if you still dont get it... hope for a respec
Give me the same and i would be very very happy The damage would literally be the same except for when nearing the overheat, but by then you either have to pull out of that engagement because you've taken too much damage yourself, your target has either fled or closed the gap between him and you, or your target is already dead cause the majority of dust players shield tank for the most part.
A true master of the LR would never let them be in a position to "close the gap" or even "do damage" to you |
Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2783
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 15:29:00 -
[16] - Quote
Long time laser rifle user and I disagree, there is no issue. The reduced heat build up as you move up the tiers is worth every bit of CPU, PG, ISK, and feedback damage they throw at it. |
DJINNDicknoseturdwaffle
Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire
208
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 15:37:00 -
[17] - Quote
Marston VC wrote:ChromeBreaker wrote:...
Ok take your viziam, add 2 complex dmg mods... and if you still dont get it... hope for a respec
Give me the same and i would be very very happy Chrome. Using damage mods on the viziam or LR don't make a difference because both weapons have the same damage out-put. Hes complaining that the ONLY difference between the standard LR and proto LR is that at lvl 5 amar one overheats about 1-2 seconds faster then the other with a price difference of around 30X less then the one that heats up slower. Your paying a premium price for an advantage that many would hardly consider a worth while advantage. I would consider using the ELM over the viziam just because the difference in heat build up is hardly anything, but at least you get to fit more onto your proto suits. and if you remember me from chromosome chrome, then you should understand what im saying actually has some weight under because im somewhat of a laser specialist....... Personally im a perfectionist so if I can fit the viziam onto my proto amar suit, then im going to do it. But most people can get away with using an ELM or even the LR, and if you do it right you could be even more potent on the battlefield then a viziam user anyway. So really it all comes down to how savy people are with their suits and fittings. But overall I agree witht he OP, I would like there to be more of a difference, like increased range for example! Or possibly a faster heat cool down! Or less feedback damage! One of those three anyway....... All the good laser users use ELM over Viziam I don't use lr so I can't say but I can comment on what I see in the killfeed though that doesn't mean much |
Mortedeamor
Internal Rebellion
442
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 16:56:00 -
[18] - Quote
Marston VC wrote:ChromeBreaker wrote:...
Ok take your viziam, add 2 complex dmg mods... and if you still dont get it... hope for a respec
Give me the same and i would be very very happy Chrome. Using damage mods on the viziam or LR don't make a difference because both weapons have the same damage out-put. Hes complaining that the ONLY difference between the standard LR and proto LR is that at lvl 5 amar one overheats about 1-2 seconds faster then the other with a price difference of around 30X less then the one that heats up slower. Your paying a premium price for an advantage that many would hardly consider a worth while advantage. I would consider using the ELM over the viziam just because the difference in heat build up is hardly anything, but at least you get to fit more onto your proto suits. and if you remember me from chromosome chrome, then you should understand what im saying actually has some weight under because im somewhat of a laser specialist....... Personally im a perfectionist so if I can fit the viziam onto my proto amar suit, then im going to do it. But most people can get away with using an ELM or even the LR, and if you do it right you could be even more potent on the battlefield then a viziam user anyway. So really it all comes down to how savy people are with their suits and fittings. But overall I agree witht he OP, I would like there to be more of a difference, like increased range for example! Or possibly a faster heat cool down! Or less feedback damage! One of those three anyway....... increased range scaled through the lvls of lr + speedier cooldown ...would make it worth it over heat is hardly an issue if you know how to use lr..good ideas. ..with the lr and a few dmg mods..i am sure i can mak a much better tank than with trying to fit the viziam..if they ever do this its viziam all the way +1 |
Johnny Guilt
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
307
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 17:40:00 -
[19] - Quote
All the laser rifles tiers are good and the insignificance damage differences between them isn't that big a deal(look at shotguns) if you want to be most cost effetive when investing SP,As for feedback,i think its called for and isnt a really big deal either since i get the impression the rifles isnt meant for mid suits but for heavy suits that can take the impact haveing such high shields by defalt plus more room for damage mods.The only thing i like to see thats significant beween teirs is more optimal range to apply it's damage between them(if they dont do that already) |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
1796
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 17:43:00 -
[20] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Long time laser rifle user and I disagree, there is no issue. The reduced heat build up as you move up the tiers is worth every bit of CPU, PG, ISK, and feedback damage they throw at it.
It's 6 rounds. You realise that right? It's probably less than half a second. The Amarr assault suit can make a regular laser rifle better than the Viziam at 2 levels in. Imagine if the Gallente assault suit turned your Exile into something better than a Duvolle before you even got it to Adv level. It would either mean that the suit was OP, or the Duvolle wasn't worth it.
I don't want to see the damage increased, I'd rather see the range on the standard reduced, and the Viziam's increased. At least then there would be an incentive to use it specifically to boost it's area of advantage. |
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TheAmazing FlyingPig
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
4148
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 17:43:00 -
[21] - Quote
I love my laser rifle. AR's ain't got **** on it. |
LT Dans Legs
Bullet Cluster
235
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 17:46:00 -
[22] - Quote
Really. I miss the iron sights.The dot sight is kinda lame. |
Aesiron Kor-Azor
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
434
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 17:49:00 -
[23] - Quote
Mortedeamor wrote:has nothing to do with it not being a usable weapon the laser is excellent my fav weapon in closed beta always has been. the only time it was unusable was when they put iron sights on it. the laser is to long range to be usable with iron sights.
the real issue lies right here
stnd laser rifle--------adv elm laser------------proto viziam 17 dmg----------------17dmg ---------------------- 17dmg 53.73 accuracy------53.73 accuracy ---------53.73 accuracy clip 100 ---------------clip 100 -------------------clip 100 max ammo 500-----max ammo 500 ----------max ammo 500 reload 4s-------------reload 4s -----------------reload 4s heat build 21--------heat build19.95------------heat build 18.90 cool down 5s ------- cool down 5s ------------cool down 5s seize 7s -------------- seize 7s ----------------seize 7s feedback 150 -------feedback 202.5-----------feedback 225
fitting req -----------fitting req ----------------- fitting req 53/5 ---------------- 72/8 ----------------------------92/10 cost 1,500isk ------cost10,770----------------cost47,220 the only improvement through higher gear is heat build and only by 2.1
where as feedback is is huge and the fitting req are almost double all around for proto
no sane gamer that desired to use the LR would ever use any rifle other than the laser rifle stnd skilled on the proto amarian ccp
so neg traits that get worse as you skill are feedback fitting req cost ..is that really worth 2.1 heat cost difference ? does anyone think it is? personally i think playing sober would improve my laser gun game more than using a proto over stnd LR lol
I think it should have a much higher ammo capacity, to make it compete with the LMG as a defensive weapon.
|
Mortedeamor
Internal Rebellion
444
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 18:06:00 -
[24] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Long time laser rifle user and I disagree, there is no issue. The reduced heat build up as you move up the tiers is worth every bit of CPU, PG, ISK, and feedback damage they throw at it. It's 6 rounds. You realise that right? It's probably less than half a second. The Amarr assault suit can make a regular laser rifle better than the Viziam at 2 levels in. Imagine if the Gallente assault suit turned your Exile into something better than a Duvolle before you even got it to Adv level. It would either mean that the suit was OP, or the Duvolle wasn't worth it. I don't want to see the damage increased, I'd rather see the range on the standard reduced, and the Viziam's increased. At least then there would be an incentive to use it specifically to boost it's area of advantage. i would agree to the stnd having shorter range and viziam longer than what they currently have..but i would also like faster cooldown on the viziam |
THUNDERGROOVE
ZionTCD
202
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 18:24:00 -
[25] - Quote
Echoist wrote:ChromeBreaker wrote:have... have you ever actually used a viziam laser rifle? The viziam just isn't worth using just to be able to fire for a few more seconds, plus the extra damage that you would see would only be seen nearing the end of your clip and by that time that person would have already been dead. Its better to save the fitting req and isk and just get a much better sidearm since that is the laser's greatest weakness. Those few extra seconds are where it does the most damage though |
Kane Fyea
DUST University Ivy League
2076
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 18:26:00 -
[26] - Quote
Johnny Guilt wrote:All the laser rifles tiers are good and the insignificance damage differences between them isn't that big a deal(look at shotguns) if you want to be most cost effetive when investing SP,As for feedback,i think its called for and isnt a really big deal either since i get the impression the rifles isnt meant for mid suits but for heavy suits that can take the impact haveing such high shields by default plus more room for damage mods.The only thing i like to see thats significant beween teirs is more optimal range to apply it's damage between them(if they dont do that already) Shotguns have a good amount of damage increase over the tiers (40 damage to 42 to 44 is pretty good considering that the damage is per pellet or whatever the fuck you call them). The Laser Rifle has no increase to damage except the little bit of damage you get when you have it on longer. |
ChromeBreaker
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
1391
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 08:22:00 -
[27] - Quote
Ok i was going to go on a nice long rant about how due to how the dmg ramps up and with amarr assault suit 5, prof 5 and complex dmg mods you get a marked improvement with the visam....
BUT i ran the numbers... and now i feel sheepish... just a little over 0.5 heat buildup differance between each of them... not even worth the button pushing to say how much dmg that equates too...
...
i feel sad now... back to ELM's it is |
Mortedeamor
Internal Rebellion
455
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 09:48:00 -
[28] - Quote
ChromeBreaker wrote:Ok i was going to go on a nice long rant about how due to how the dmg ramps up and with amarr assault suit 5, prof 5 and complex dmg mods you get a marked improvement with the visam.... BUT i ran the numbers... and now i feel sheepish... just a little over 0.5 heat buildup differance between each of them... not even worth the button pushing to say how much dmg that equates too... ... i feel sad now... back to ELM's it is join the rage stb yes that proto suit is super sexy with the elm..maybe one day they will give us a reason to put our viziam on it |
Vell0cet
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
427
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 10:14:00 -
[29] - Quote
Mortedeamor wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:Long time laser rifle user and I disagree, there is no issue. The reduced heat build up as you move up the tiers is worth every bit of CPU, PG, ISK, and feedback damage they throw at it. It's 6 rounds. You realise that right? It's probably less than half a second. The Amarr assault suit can make a regular laser rifle better than the Viziam at 2 levels in. Imagine if the Gallente assault suit turned your Exile into something better than a Duvolle before you even got it to Adv level. It would either mean that the suit was OP, or the Duvolle wasn't worth it. I don't want to see the damage increased, I'd rather see the range on the standard reduced, and the Viziam's increased. At least then there would be an incentive to use it specifically to boost it's area of advantage. i would agree to the stnd having shorter range and viziam longer than what they currently have..but i would also like faster cooldown on the viziam Why? You have to reload after each shot anyways. As long as cooldown < reload you'll never notice a difference.
The LR needs a range buff out to 120m. That's all it needs. They could increase clip sizes so you reload every-other maybe, but not necessary. Range is more important. |
Mortedeamor
Internal Rebellion
455
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 10:20:00 -
[30] - Quote
maybe you have to reload that often but i use my laser a bit differently than most people my playstyle is a little weird and requires me to reload less |
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