DUST Search - the real laser rifle issue

Mortedeamor wrote:

has nothing to do with it not being a usable weapon the laser is excellent my fav weapon in closed beta always has been. the only time it was unusable was when they put iron sights on it. the laser is to long range to be usable with iron sights.

the real issue lies right here

stnd laser rifle--------adv elm laser------------proto viziam
17 dmg----------------17dmg ---------------------- 17dmg
53.73 accuracy------53.73 accuracy ---------53.73 accuracy
clip 100 ---------------clip 100 -------------------clip 100
max ammo 500-----max ammo 500 ----------max ammo 500
reload 4s-------------reload 4s -----------------reload 4s
heat build 21--------heat build19.95------------heat build 18.90
cool down 5s ------- cool down 5s ------------cool down 5s
seize 7s -------------- seize 7s ----------------seize 7s
feedback 150 -------feedback 202.5-----------feedback 225

fitting req -----------fitting req ----------------- fitting req
53/5 ---------------- 72/8 ----------------------------92/10
cost 1,500isk ------cost10,770----------------cost47,220
the only improvement through higher gear is heat build and only by 2.1

where as feedback is is huge
and the fitting req are almost double all around for proto

no sane gamer that desired to use the LR would ever use any rifle other than the laser rifle stnd skilled on the proto amarian ccp

so neg traits that get worse as you skill are
feedback
fitting req
cost ..is that really worth 2.1 heat cost difference ? does anyone think it is? personally i think playing sober would improve my laser gun game more than using a proto over stnd LR lol

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Mortedeamor Internal Rebellion 439	Posted - 2013.10.14 11:34:00 - [1] - Quote has nothing to do with it not being a usable weapon the laser is excellent my fav weapon in closed beta always has been witth only time it was unusable was when they put iron sights on it. the laser is to long range to be usable with iron sights. the real issue lies right here stnd laser rifle adv elm laser proto viziam 17 dmg 17dmg 17dmg 53.73 accuracy 53.73 accuracy 53.73 accuracy clip 100 clip 100 clip 100 max ammo 500 max ammo 500 max ammo 500 reload 4s reload 4s reload 4s heat build 21 heat build19.95 heat build 18.90 cool down 5s cool down 5s cool down 5s seize 7s seize 7s seize 7s feedback 150 feedback 202.5 feedback 225 fitting req fitting req fitting req 53/5 72/8 92/10 cost 1,500isk cost10,770 cost47,220 the only improvement through higher gear is heat build and only by 2.1 where as feedback is is huge and the fitting req are almost double all around for proto no sane gamer that desired to use the LR would ever use any rifle other than the laser rifle stnd skilled on the proto amarian ccp so neg traits that get worse as you skill are feedback fitting req cost ..is that really worth 2.1 heat cost difference ? does anyone think it is? personally i think playing sober would improve my laser gun game more than using a proto over stnd LR lol
ChromeBreaker SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1384	Posted - 2013.10.14 11:36:00 - [2] - Quote have... have you ever actually used a viziam laser rifle?
Mortedeamor Internal Rebellion 439	Posted - 2013.10.14 11:39:00 - [3] - Quote ChromeBreaker wrote: have... have you ever actually used a vizam laser rifle? yes in closed beta and now the difference is not worth the negative trait they are just not currently i am running sntd laser on adv amarian assault with adv smg..and i can tell ya now it will be even better on proto..i have the viziam already it sucks there is practically no difference and i am have prof 3 on my laser been using it for all of dust except when they gave it iron sights lr and md and smg have always been my logi's main weapons
ChromeBreaker SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1384	Posted - 2013.10.14 11:42:00 - [4] - Quote ... Ok take your viziam, add 2 complex dmg mods... and if you still dont get it... hope for a respec Give me the same and i would be very very happy
Echoist Fenrir's Wolves DARKSTAR ARMY 86	Posted - 2013.10.14 11:44:00 - [5] - Quote ChromeBreaker wrote: have... have you ever actually used a viziam laser rifle? The viziam just isn't worth using just to be able to fire for a few more seconds, plus the extra damage that you would see would only be seen nearing the end of your clip and by that time that person would have already been dead. Its better to save the fitting req and isk and just get a much better sidearm since that is the laser's greatest weakness.
Mortedeamor Internal Rebellion 439	Posted - 2013.10.14 11:44:00 - [6] - Quote ChromeBreaker wrote: ... Ok take your viziam, add 2 complex dmg mods... and if you still dont get it... hope for a respec Give me the same and i would be very very happy lol still not worth it 2 dmg mods does the exact same thing to the laser they have the same dmg rating..and personally with the stnd it is easier to put it to burn up mode. the difference in heat build up is not worth the fitting pg and cpu you save from running stnd. let alone the over heat..not that i worry about that i rarely over heat
Mortedeamor Internal Rebellion 439	Posted - 2013.10.14 11:45:00 - [7] - Quote Echoist wrote: ChromeBreaker wrote: have... have you ever actually used a viziam laser rifle? The viziam just isn't worth using just to be able to fire for a few more seconds, plus the extra damage that you would see would only be seen nearing the end of your clip and by that time that person would have already been dead. Its better to save the fitting req and isk and just get a much better sidearm since that is the laser's greatest weakness. my point exactly proto amarian assault proto smg std laser is the way to go
Mortedeamor Internal Rebellion 439	Posted - 2013.10.14 11:47:00 - [8] - Quote the skills are worth 10x more than the weapon you unlock lol
Echoist Fenrir's Wolves DARKSTAR ARMY 86	Posted - 2013.10.14 11:51:00 - [9] - Quote ChromeBreaker wrote: ... Ok take your viziam, add 2 complex dmg mods... and if you still dont get it... hope for a respec Give me the same and i would be very very happy The damage would literally be the same except for when nearing the overheat, but by then you either have to pull out of that engagement because you've taken too much damage yourself, your target has either fled or closed the gap between him and you, or your target is already dead cause the majority of dust players shield tank for the most part.
Mortedeamor Internal Rebellion 439	Posted - 2013.10.14 11:57:00 - [10] - Quote Echoist wrote: ChromeBreaker wrote: ... Ok take your viziam, add 2 complex dmg mods... and if you still dont get it... hope for a respec Give me the same and i would be very very happy The damage would literally be the same except for when nearing the overheat, but by then you either have to pull out of that engagement because you've taken too much damage yourself, your target has either fled or closed the gap between him and you, or your target is already dead cause the majority of dust players shield tank for the most part. not for me lol my over heat does 150 lol and i tend to strafe triage hives :) and i prefer to close the gap and pull out that proto smg flux combo

Marc Rime Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 185	Posted - 2013.10.14 14:34:00 - [11] - Quote You left out the most important difference -- Viziam looks a lot better than the ELM-3 or standard.
Mortedeamor Internal Rebellion 441	Posted - 2013.10.14 14:36:00 - [12] - Quote sorry ccp but im not an eve fan girl there needs to be more than just "better looking" for me to use it with those drawbacks
Flix Keptick Red Star. EoN. 756	Posted - 2013.10.14 14:42:00 - [13] - Quote I thought the damage ramped up faster on the viziam?
Marston VC SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1057	Posted - 2013.10.14 15:02:00 - [14] - Quote ChromeBreaker wrote: ... Ok take your viziam, add 2 complex dmg mods... and if you still dont get it... hope for a respec Give me the same and i would be very very happy Chrome. Using damage mods on the viziam or LR don't make a difference because both weapons have the same damage out-put. Hes complaining that the ONLY difference between the standard LR and proto LR is that at lvl 5 amar one overheats about 1-2 seconds faster then the other with a price difference of around 30X less then the one that heats up slower. Your paying a premium price for an advantage that many would hardly consider a worth while advantage. I would consider using the ELM over the viziam just because the difference in heat build up is hardly anything, but at least you get to fit more onto your proto suits. and if you remember me from chromosome chrome, then you should understand what im saying actually has some weight under because im somewhat of a laser specialist....... Personally im a perfectionist so if I can fit the viziam onto my proto amar suit, then im going to do it. But most people can get away with using an ELM or even the LR, and if you do it right you could be even more potent on the battlefield then a viziam user anyway. So really it all comes down to how savy people are with their suits and fittings. But overall I agree witht he OP, I would like there to be more of a difference, like increased range for example! Or possibly a faster heat cool down! Or less feedback damage! One of those three anyway.......
Marston VC SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1057	Posted - 2013.10.14 15:04:00 - [15] - Quote Echoist wrote: ChromeBreaker wrote: ... Ok take your viziam, add 2 complex dmg mods... and if you still dont get it... hope for a respec Give me the same and i would be very very happy The damage would literally be the same except for when nearing the overheat, but by then you either have to pull out of that engagement because you've taken too much damage yourself, your target has either fled or closed the gap between him and you, or your target is already dead cause the majority of dust players shield tank for the most part. A true master of the LR would never let them be in a position to "close the gap" or even "do damage" to you
Aero Yassavi PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 2783	Posted - 2013.10.14 15:29:00 - [16] - Quote Long time laser rifle user and I disagree, there is no issue. The reduced heat build up as you move up the tiers is worth every bit of CPU, PG, ISK, and feedback damage they throw at it.
DJINNDicknoseturdwaffle Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 208	Posted - 2013.10.14 15:37:00 - [17] - Quote Marston VC wrote: ChromeBreaker wrote: ... Ok take your viziam, add 2 complex dmg mods... and if you still dont get it... hope for a respec Give me the same and i would be very very happy Chrome. Using damage mods on the viziam or LR don't make a difference because both weapons have the same damage out-put. Hes complaining that the ONLY difference between the standard LR and proto LR is that at lvl 5 amar one overheats about 1-2 seconds faster then the other with a price difference of around 30X less then the one that heats up slower. Your paying a premium price for an advantage that many would hardly consider a worth while advantage. I would consider using the ELM over the viziam just because the difference in heat build up is hardly anything, but at least you get to fit more onto your proto suits. and if you remember me from chromosome chrome, then you should understand what im saying actually has some weight under because im somewhat of a laser specialist....... Personally im a perfectionist so if I can fit the viziam onto my proto amar suit, then im going to do it. But most people can get away with using an ELM or even the LR, and if you do it right you could be even more potent on the battlefield then a viziam user anyway. So really it all comes down to how savy people are with their suits and fittings. But overall I agree witht he OP, I would like there to be more of a difference, like increased range for example! Or possibly a faster heat cool down! Or less feedback damage! One of those three anyway....... All the good laser users use ELM over Viziam I don't use lr so I can't say but I can comment on what I see in the killfeed though that doesn't mean much
Mortedeamor Internal Rebellion 442	Posted - 2013.10.14 16:56:00 - [18] - Quote Marston VC wrote: ChromeBreaker wrote: ... Ok take your viziam, add 2 complex dmg mods... and if you still dont get it... hope for a respec Give me the same and i would be very very happy Chrome. Using damage mods on the viziam or LR don't make a difference because both weapons have the same damage out-put. Hes complaining that the ONLY difference between the standard LR and proto LR is that at lvl 5 amar one overheats about 1-2 seconds faster then the other with a price difference of around 30X less then the one that heats up slower. Your paying a premium price for an advantage that many would hardly consider a worth while advantage. I would consider using the ELM over the viziam just because the difference in heat build up is hardly anything, but at least you get to fit more onto your proto suits. and if you remember me from chromosome chrome, then you should understand what im saying actually has some weight under because im somewhat of a laser specialist....... Personally im a perfectionist so if I can fit the viziam onto my proto amar suit, then im going to do it. But most people can get away with using an ELM or even the LR, and if you do it right you could be even more potent on the battlefield then a viziam user anyway. So really it all comes down to how savy people are with their suits and fittings. But overall I agree witht he OP, I would like there to be more of a difference, like increased range for example! Or possibly a faster heat cool down! Or less feedback damage! One of those three anyway....... increased range scaled through the lvls of lr + speedier cooldown ...would make it worth it over heat is hardly an issue if you know how to use lr..good ideas. ..with the lr and a few dmg mods..i am sure i can mak a much better tank than with trying to fit the viziam..if they ever do this its viziam all the way +1
Johnny Guilt Algintal Core Gallente Federation 307	Posted - 2013.10.14 17:40:00 - [19] - Quote All the laser rifles tiers are good and the insignificance damage differences between them isn't that big a deal(look at shotguns) if you want to be most cost effetive when investing SP,As for feedback,i think its called for and isnt a really big deal either since i get the impression the rifles isnt meant for mid suits but for heavy suits that can take the impact haveing such high shields by defalt plus more room for damage mods.The only thing i like to see thats significant beween teirs is more optimal range to apply it's damage between them(if they dont do that already)
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 1796	Posted - 2013.10.14 17:43:00 - [20] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Long time laser rifle user and I disagree, there is no issue. The reduced heat build up as you move up the tiers is worth every bit of CPU, PG, ISK, and feedback damage they throw at it. It's 6 rounds. You realise that right? It's probably less than half a second. The Amarr assault suit can make a regular laser rifle better than the Viziam at 2 levels in. Imagine if the Gallente assault suit turned your Exile into something better than a Duvolle before you even got it to Adv level. It would either mean that the suit was OP, or the Duvolle wasn't worth it. I don't want to see the damage increased, I'd rather see the range on the standard reduced, and the Viziam's increased. At least then there would be an incentive to use it specifically to boost it's area of advantage.

TheAmazing FlyingPig Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 4148	Posted - 2013.10.14 17:43:00 - [21] - Quote I love my laser rifle. AR's ain't got **** on it.
LT Dans Legs Bullet Cluster 235	Posted - 2013.10.14 17:46:00 - [22] - Quote Really. I miss the iron sights.The dot sight is kinda lame.
Aesiron Kor-Azor Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 434	Posted - 2013.10.14 17:49:00 - [23] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: has nothing to do with it not being a usable weapon the laser is excellent my fav weapon in closed beta always has been. the only time it was unusable was when they put iron sights on it. the laser is to long range to be usable with iron sights. the real issue lies right here stnd laser rifle--------adv elm laser------------proto viziam 17 dmg----------------17dmg ---------------------- 17dmg 53.73 accuracy------53.73 accuracy ---------53.73 accuracy clip 100 ---------------clip 100 -------------------clip 100 max ammo 500-----max ammo 500 ----------max ammo 500 reload 4s-------------reload 4s -----------------reload 4s heat build 21--------heat build19.95------------heat build 18.90 cool down 5s ------- cool down 5s ------------cool down 5s seize 7s -------------- seize 7s ----------------seize 7s feedback 150 -------feedback 202.5-----------feedback 225 fitting req -----------fitting req ----------------- fitting req 53/5 ---------------- 72/8 ----------------------------92/10 cost 1,500isk ------cost10,770----------------cost47,220 the only improvement through higher gear is heat build and only by 2.1 where as feedback is is huge and the fitting req are almost double all around for proto no sane gamer that desired to use the LR would ever use any rifle other than the laser rifle stnd skilled on the proto amarian ccp so neg traits that get worse as you skill are feedback fitting req cost ..is that really worth 2.1 heat cost difference ? does anyone think it is? personally i think playing sober would improve my laser gun game more than using a proto over stnd LR lol I think it should have a much higher ammo capacity, to make it compete with the LMG as a defensive weapon.
Mortedeamor Internal Rebellion 444	Posted - 2013.10.14 18:06:00 - [24] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Long time laser rifle user and I disagree, there is no issue. The reduced heat build up as you move up the tiers is worth every bit of CPU, PG, ISK, and feedback damage they throw at it. It's 6 rounds. You realise that right? It's probably less than half a second. The Amarr assault suit can make a regular laser rifle better than the Viziam at 2 levels in. Imagine if the Gallente assault suit turned your Exile into something better than a Duvolle before you even got it to Adv level. It would either mean that the suit was OP, or the Duvolle wasn't worth it. I don't want to see the damage increased, I'd rather see the range on the standard reduced, and the Viziam's increased. At least then there would be an incentive to use it specifically to boost it's area of advantage. i would agree to the stnd having shorter range and viziam longer than what they currently have..but i would also like faster cooldown on the viziam
THUNDERGROOVE ZionTCD 202	Posted - 2013.10.14 18:24:00 - [25] - Quote Echoist wrote: ChromeBreaker wrote: have... have you ever actually used a viziam laser rifle? The viziam just isn't worth using just to be able to fire for a few more seconds, plus the extra damage that you would see would only be seen nearing the end of your clip and by that time that person would have already been dead. Its better to save the fitting req and isk and just get a much better sidearm since that is the laser's greatest weakness. Those few extra seconds are where it does the most damage though
Kane Fyea DUST University Ivy League 2076	Posted - 2013.10.14 18:26:00 - [26] - Quote Johnny Guilt wrote: All the laser rifles tiers are good and the insignificance damage differences between them isn't that big a deal(look at shotguns) if you want to be most cost effetive when investing SP,As for feedback,i think its called for and isnt a really big deal either since i get the impression the rifles isnt meant for mid suits but for heavy suits that can take the impact haveing such high shields by default plus more room for damage mods.The only thing i like to see thats significant beween teirs is more optimal range to apply it's damage between them(if they dont do that already) Shotguns have a good amount of damage increase over the tiers (40 damage to 42 to 44 is pretty good considering that the damage is per pellet or whatever the fuck you call them). The Laser Rifle has no increase to damage except the little bit of damage you get when you have it on longer.
ChromeBreaker SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1391	Posted - 2013.10.15 08:22:00 - [27] - Quote Ok i was going to go on a nice long rant about how due to how the dmg ramps up and with amarr assault suit 5, prof 5 and complex dmg mods you get a marked improvement with the visam.... BUT i ran the numbers... and now i feel sheepish... just a little over 0.5 heat buildup differance between each of them... not even worth the button pushing to say how much dmg that equates too... ... i feel sad now... back to ELM's it is
Mortedeamor Internal Rebellion 455	Posted - 2013.10.15 09:48:00 - [28] - Quote ChromeBreaker wrote: Ok i was going to go on a nice long rant about how due to how the dmg ramps up and with amarr assault suit 5, prof 5 and complex dmg mods you get a marked improvement with the visam.... BUT i ran the numbers... and now i feel sheepish... just a little over 0.5 heat buildup differance between each of them... not even worth the button pushing to say how much dmg that equates too... ... i feel sad now... back to ELM's it is join the rage stb yes that proto suit is super sexy with the elm..maybe one day they will give us a reason to put our viziam on it
Vell0cet Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 427	Posted - 2013.10.15 10:14:00 - [29] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: Chunky Munkey wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Long time laser rifle user and I disagree, there is no issue. The reduced heat build up as you move up the tiers is worth every bit of CPU, PG, ISK, and feedback damage they throw at it. It's 6 rounds. You realise that right? It's probably less than half a second. The Amarr assault suit can make a regular laser rifle better than the Viziam at 2 levels in. Imagine if the Gallente assault suit turned your Exile into something better than a Duvolle before you even got it to Adv level. It would either mean that the suit was OP, or the Duvolle wasn't worth it. I don't want to see the damage increased, I'd rather see the range on the standard reduced, and the Viziam's increased. At least then there would be an incentive to use it specifically to boost it's area of advantage. i would agree to the stnd having shorter range and viziam longer than what they currently have..but i would also like faster cooldown on the viziam Why? You have to reload after each shot anyways. As long as cooldown < reload you'll never notice a difference. The LR needs a range buff out to 120m. That's all it needs. They could increase clip sizes so you reload every-other maybe, but not necessary. Range is more important.
Mortedeamor Internal Rebellion 455	Posted - 2013.10.15 10:20:00 - [30] - Quote maybe you have to reload that often but i use my laser a bit differently than most people my playstyle is a little weird and requires me to reload less

Mortedeamor Internal Rebellion 455	Posted - 2013.10.15 10:34:00 - [31] - Quote either faster cooldown or larger clip either would be good really i suppose
Beld Errmon Evocatius 1012	Posted - 2013.10.15 12:08:00 - [32] - Quote LT Dans Legs wrote: Really. I miss the iron sights.The dot sight is kinda lame. My gawd I live in a world where someone thinks this.


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