if the laser rifle needs changed it only needs a little more range.

let's bring out some new weapons before we change the lr.

I am surprised you are unhappy your STD Weapon is just as good as you proto weapon.

Shhh, keep it in the DL...

I get killed in 2 seconds sometimes with an ADV laser rifle, so maybe increase shield damage and lower armor damage? I only have used the Burnstalk Rifle for a few so I can't really contribute much to this thread.


I'm sorry. Don't hurt me.

I get killed in 2 seconds sometimes with an ADV laser rifle, so maybe increase shield damage and lower armor damage? I only have used the Burnstalk Rifle for a few so I can't really contribute much to this thread.


I'm sorry. Don't hurt me.

You're doing 25/2 with it now yet you think it needs buffed.

Right so I use the laser almost exclusively, and over time time these are the things that maybe could be changed:

1. For the love of god why does the proto laser have to do 225 feedback damage, you'd think the better the weapon got the less damage it would do to you. Although on one hand I see the risk vs. reward argument in this case.
2. I think it's a bit overkill that when the laser over heats that we can't at least sprint or how about this idea when it over heats that you can quickly press the reload button repeatedly to hurry up the process a little bit.
3. Now when it comes to the adv and proto version they really aren't worth using at all so I propose a slight increase in max range as it progresses higher up. Also as far as an increase in damage goes, I'd say at most a .5 increase in higher tiers.

And just as a side note to CCP when are we going to get variants for the laser?

The basic laser is 53 CPU and 5 PG - The Viziam is 92 CPU and 10 PG. (39 CPU 5 PG difference)
Damage is the same on all tiers - 17.
Feedback damade on basic laser is 150 - The Viziam's feedback is 225. (75 Feedback damage difference)
Heat Build-up per second on basic is 21 - Viziam Heat Build-up is 18.9. (2.1 Heat Build-up difference)
ISK Cost of basic laser : 1.500isk - The Viziam costs 47.220isk. (45.720isk difference)

With Amarr Assault lvl5 (25% less Heat Build-up) heat Build-up on Basic/Proto Tiers would look like this :

Calculated like this --->[ Base Tier Heat Build-up - (Base Tier Heat Build-up * 0.25) ]

- Basic laser Heat Build-up : 15.75
- Proto laser Heat Build-up : 14.175
(1.575 Heat Build-up difference after maximum bonus applied)

With a full clip (100 ammo) if you shoot continuously with any Amarr Assault suit and Amarr Assault lvl5 this leaves you with this many munitions when gun overheats :

- Basic : around* 20 ammo *(Only have lvl4 on Amarr Assault atm so haven't seen the exact number)
- Proto : around* 11 ammo *(Same as the above)
- Estimated* difference in remaining ammo : 9 ammo

---

If we compare it all, Viziam versus basic laser gives us :

- Increased ressource cost : +39 CPU & + 5 PG
- Same base damage
- Increased feedback damage : +75
- Reduced Heat Build-up (No suit bonus) : -2.1 Heat Build-up per second
- Reduced Heat Build-up (With suit bonus) : -1.575 Heat Build-up per second
- Increased isk cost : +45.720isk
- Additionnal shots before overheating (With suit bonus) : "Estimated" +9 ammo

Laser rifles are fine. The only thing that got changed was replacing the sight and increased ADS turning speed.

Higher tier laser rifles take longer to over heat but have harsher feedback damage when you do overheat them. Laser rifles also get stronger the longer they are fired, so technically the higher tiered laser rifles are capable of doing more damage than lower tier laser rifles. Laser rifles are very powerful in their small optimal range and utter crap outside it.

Laser rifles are fine.

Laser rifles are fine. The only thing that got changed was replacing the sight and increased ADS turning speed.

Higher tier laser rifles take longer to over heat but have harsher feedback damage when you do overheat them. Laser rifles also get stronger the longer they are fired, so technically the higher tiered laser rifles are capable of doing more damage than lower tier laser rifles. Laser rifles are very powerful in their small optimal range and utter crap outside it.

Laser rifles are fine.

they may not have ruined the lasr in general..but they have ruined the elm and viziam because there really is no reason tto use anything other than stnd laser on proto amarian assault

I get killed in 2 seconds sometimes with an ADV laser rifle, so maybe increase shield damage and lower armor damage? I only have used the Burnstalk Rifle for a few so I can't really contribute much to this thread.


I'm sorry. Don't hurt me.

Maybe if the armor/plates really did have a better resistance to energy weapons (and feedback) armor tanking would be more viable. Not suggesting base-armor resistances, but if the plates were buffed to EM damage that would be pretty good. As it is Shields and Armor seem to be eaten away at the same rate under laser fire...

I can tell straight off the bat that it takes me way longer to kill a well fitted armor suit than it does a shield suit. I think the reason why you might think they are the same might be because most people shield tank so typically they won't really bother putting too much armor on since it would slow them down. So basically you don't really have that much armor to deal with, it's why most caldari suits if they're smart won't stick around after you take their shields out.

There's a bit of a psychological "trick" that occurs with laser weapons, too. They get through shields almost instantaneously, so they start digging into armor sooner than most people expect, which gives the effect of better armor damage than they actually do. The LR is continuous damage, too, which makes the effect seem even more dramatic. Honestly, though, I dread running into properly armor-tanked suits, especially with the Scrambler Rifle, as I know I'm usually going to have to land every shot to get 'em down.

First off we never said the laser was a bad weapon it's fantastic, what we're asking for is incentive to use the higher tiered lasers. Anybody who consistently runs lasers will say it's not worth running anything above the standard.

Higher tier laser rifles take longer to over heat but have harsher feedback damage when you do overheat them. Laser rifles also get stronger the longer they are fired, so technically the higher tiered laser rifles are capable of doing more damage than lower tier laser rifles.

We are talking about a change that must be older than your dust knowledge. The laser rifle sight change was only the MOST RECENT change, I am talking about the nerf from chromosome to uprising. No one could really tell if it was over kill or not since they ruined the sights at the same time.

There's a bit of a psychological "trick" that occurs with laser weapons, too. They get through shields almost instantaneously, so they start digging into armor sooner than most people expect, which gives the effect of better armor damage than they actually do. The LR is continuous damage, too, which makes the effect seem even more dramatic. Honestly, though, I dread running into properly armor-tanked suits, especially with the Scrambler Rifle, as I know I'm usually going to have to land every shot to get 'em down.

Maybe if the armor/plates really did have a better resistance to energy weapons (and feedback) armor tanking would be more viable. Not suggesting base-armor resistances, but if the plates were buffed to EM damage that would be pretty good. As it is Shields and Armor seem to be eaten away at the same rate under laser fire...

There actually is an incentive to use higher tier laser rifles that I already explained in my post that you replied to.
Now whether or not people are smart enough to recognize the actual value of higher tier laser rifles is a different story. Too many noobs only see the damage stat of a weapon. They don't take into account the rate of fire, spread, ammo, reload, effective range, heat build up, etc...

PS: How is Lonnie? I see he finally ditched that rude Russian alliance. Good for him.
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Right... Again, all they changed most recently was the sight and ADS turning speed. It's funny but even though they changed just 2 things, people rejoiced that the laser rifle was usable again. Despite people crying on the forum that the laser rifle needed a damage buff, the weapon became usable with just two changes that had nothing to do with damage. mmm...

So it can be concluded that the nerfed damage on laser rifles was fine the entire time. Why the heck is something so obvious even up for debate?

Right... Again, all they changed most recently was the sight and ADS turning speed. It's funny but even though they changed just 2 things, people rejoiced that the laser rifle was usable again.?

the removal of iron sights as laser is a long range weapon has made it usable..and it is a good weapon if you use it right..but there is not enough variation between the proto laser and stnd..there is reason to skill for skill bonuses..and the proto amarian assault is def worth getting ..but i would put a stnd laser rifle ona proto amarian suit with 100% laser skills anyday over viziam on proto assault...the cost and fitting requirements are not worth the difference it will make

Laser never way unusable. It was always a good weapon, it just had design flaws.

There actually is an incentive to use higher tier laser rifles that I already explained in my post that you replied to.
Now whether or not people are smart enough to recognize the actual value of higher tier laser rifles is a different story. Too many noobs only see the damage stat of a weapon. They don't take into account the rate of fire, spread, ammo, reload, effective range, heat build up, etc...

PS: How is Lonnie? I see he finally ditched that rude Russian alliance. Good for him.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Right... Again, all they changed most recently was the sight and ADS turning speed. It's funny but even though they changed just 2 things, people rejoiced that the laser rifle was usable again. Despite people crying on the forum that the laser rifle needed a damage buff, the weapon became usable with just two changes that had nothing to do with damage. mmm...

So it can be concluded that the nerfed damage on laser rifles was fine the entire time. Why the heck is something so obvious even up for debate?

The laser rifle users(myself included) don't want a buff. We want a better reason to use higher tier rifles. To many people, the Viziam is no better than the standard one because it has 3 drawbacks that far outweigh its single benefit.