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Mortedeamor
Internal Rebellion
409
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Posted - 2013.10.12 13:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
ccp..the original issue with the laser rifle was its range when combined with chromosome range skills + its high dmg rate made it op
for the longest time it was useless..and we can thank whoever came up with the brilliant (sarcasm) idea to put iron sights on a long range weapon.
and now you have given us the sights back so we can use it and judge the original laser nerf as overkill like always...really with the skills set that we have now the range difference is no big deal. i would like the following dmg adjustments
laser rifle 15 dmg (currently 17 all round through all tiers)
elm 17 dmg
viziam 19 dmg (op state was 22 dmg +huge range buff)
i have been waiting to get my adv amarian assault before making this thread..because i thought the combination of the suit +the weapon may scale it to glory..but it will not as is the scrambler rifle trumps the laser rifle for the choice as amarian assault main weapon. and it is not a matter of not using the laser rifle properly..i can successfully on proper terrain run 25/2 in a stnd laser amarian assault fit. but as i already have the viziam (proto laser) there is no point into skilling into lr for more than the skill bonuses you need to variate the dmg among the lvls of weapon.
the bonus of combining the amarian assault with the laser rifle is minimal when the weapon itself is so plain..exspecially when the market offers a better choice to run.
the laser rifle on stnd amarian assault with 15 dmg will be very doable vs its class of gear used properly
the elm would suffer no difference
and the viziam if used properly may just be balanced vs the other choices |
Mortedeamor
Internal Rebellion
410
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Posted - 2013.10.12 14:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
low genius wrote:if the laser rifle needs changed it only needs a little more range.
let's bring out some new weapons before we change the lr.
it def does not need more range it needs a clear reason to use anything other than standard elms and viziams are worthless |
Mortedeamor
Internal Rebellion
410
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Posted - 2013.10.12 15:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:I am surprised you are unhappy your STD Weapon is just as good as you proto weapon.
Shhh, keep it in the DL...
no it is unbalanced there is no shhh unbalanced means im unhappy |
Mortedeamor
Internal Rebellion
410
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Posted - 2013.10.12 18:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
Joel II X wrote:I get killed in 2 seconds sometimes with an ADV laser rifle, so maybe increase shield damage and lower armor damage? I only have used the Burnstalk Rifle for a few so I can't really contribute much to this thread.
I'm sorry. Don't hurt me.
engage your enemy ar's as if you were usng a tac ar ...engage just outside ar's optimum range |
Mortedeamor
Internal Rebellion
411
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Posted - 2013.10.12 19:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
BIind Shot wrote:You're doing 25/2 with it now yet you think it needs buffed.
if you read that post i was doing 25/2 with a std laser vs stnd suits..and what i suggested was actually a nerf for the stnd and a buff for the proto the adv would be left the same |
Mortedeamor
Internal Rebellion
411
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Posted - 2013.10.12 21:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
lol that over heat is a bit absurd |
Mortedeamor
Internal Rebellion
411
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Posted - 2013.10.12 22:32:00 -
[7] - Quote
Svaknai wrote:The basic laser is 53 CPU and 5 PG - The Viziam is 92 CPU and 10 PG. (39 CPU 5 PG difference)
Damage is the same on all tiers - 17.
Feedback damade on basic laser is 150 - The Viziam's feedback is 225. (75 Feedback damage difference)
Heat Build-up per second on basic is 21 - Viziam Heat Build-up is 18.9. (2.1 Heat Build-up difference)
ISK Cost of basic laser : 1.500isk - The Viziam costs 47.220isk. (45.720isk difference)
With Amarr Assault lvl5 (25% less Heat Build-up) heat Build-up on Basic/Proto Tiers would look like this :
Calculated like this --->[ Base Tier Heat Build-up - (Base Tier Heat Build-up * 0.25) ]
- Basic laser Heat Build-up : 15.75
- Proto laser Heat Build-up : 14.175
(1.575 Heat Build-up difference after maximum bonus applied)
With a full clip (100 ammo) if you shoot continuously with any Amarr Assault suit and Amarr Assault lvl5 this leaves you with this many munitions when gun overheats :
- Basic : around* 20 ammo *(Only have lvl4 on Amarr Assault atm so haven't seen the exact number)
- Proto : around* 11 ammo *(Same as the above)
- Estimated* difference in remaining ammo : 9 ammo
If we compare it all, Viziam versus basic laser gives us :
- Increased ressource cost : +39 CPU & + 5 PG
- Same base damage
- Increased feedback damage : +75
- Reduced Heat Build-up (No suit bonus) : -2.1 Heat Build-up per second
- Reduced Heat Build-up (With suit bonus) : -1.575 Heat Build-up per second
- Increased isk cost : +45.720isk
- Additionnal shots before overheating (With suit bonus) : "Estimated" +9 ammo
when you look at it like that the best way to run laser is stnd laser fully skilled on proto amarian assault specced and skilled terribad ccp no benefit to using proto over basic |
Mortedeamor
Internal Rebellion
412
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Posted - 2013.10.13 12:10:00 -
[8] - Quote
medomai grey wrote:Laser rifles are fine. The only thing that got changed was replacing the sight and increased ADS turning speed.
Higher tier laser rifles take longer to over heat but have harsher feedback damage when you do overheat them. Laser rifles also get stronger the longer they are fired, so technically the higher tiered laser rifles are capable of doing more damage than lower tier laser rifles. Laser rifles are very powerful in their small optimal range and utter crap outside it.
Laser rifles are fine.
we are talking about a change that must be older than your dust knowledge the laser rifle sight change was only the MOST RECENT change i am talking about the nerf from chromosome to uprising..no one could really tell if it was over kill or not since they ruined the sights at the same time. |
Mortedeamor
Internal Rebellion
412
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Posted - 2013.10.13 12:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
they may not have ruined the lasr in general..but they have ruined the elm and viziam because there really is no reason tto use anything other than stnd laser on proto amarian assault |
Mortedeamor
Internal Rebellion
434
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Posted - 2013.10.13 23:34:00 -
[10] - Quote
Denn Maell wrote:Joel II X wrote:I get killed in 2 seconds sometimes with an ADV laser rifle, so maybe increase shield damage and lower armor damage? I only have used the Burnstalk Rifle for a few so I can't really contribute much to this thread.
I'm sorry. Don't hurt me. Maybe if the armor/plates really did have a better resistance to energy weapons (and feedback) armor tanking would be more viable. Not suggesting base-armor resistances, but if the plates were buffed to EM damage that would be pretty good. As it is Shields and Armor seem to be eaten away at the same rate under laser fire...
incorrect it only seems that way because with most suits that are shield tanked at all by the time we get to 20% of your armor down the laser is close to over heat ...which means it is a death beam...when engaging soley armor tanked suits with dmg mods..the laser is noticeably less effective. |
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Mortedeamor
Internal Rebellion
434
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Posted - 2013.10.13 23:36:00 -
[11] - Quote
medomai grey wrote:Echoist wrote:First off we never said the laser was a bad weapon it's fantastic, what we're asking for is incentive to use the higher tiered lasers. Anybody who consistently runs lasers will say it's not worth running anything above the standard. There actually is an incentive to use higher tier laser rifles that I already explained in my post that you replied to. medomai grey wrote:Higher tier laser rifles take longer to over heat but have harsher feedback damage when you do overheat them. Laser rifles also get stronger the longer they are fired, so technically the higher tiered laser rifles are capable of doing more damage than lower tier laser rifles. Now whether or not people are smart enough to recognize the actual value of higher tier laser rifles is a different story. Too many noobs only see the damage stat of a weapon. They don't take into account the rate of fire, spread, ammo, reload, effective range, heat build up, etc... PS: How is Lonnie? I see he finally ditched that rude Russian alliance. Good for him.  ________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Mortedeamor wrote:
We are talking about a change that must be older than your dust knowledge. The laser rifle sight change was only the MOST RECENT change, I am talking about the nerf from chromosome to uprising. No one could really tell if it was over kill or not since they ruined the sights at the same time.
Right... Again, all they changed most recently was the sight and ADS turning speed. It's funny but even though they changed just 2 things, people rejoiced that the laser rifle was usable again. Despite people crying on the forum that the laser rifle needed a damage buff, the weapon became usable with just two changes that had nothing to do with damage. mmm... So it can be concluded that the nerfed damage on laser rifles was fine the entire time. Why the heck is something so obvious even up for debate?
the sight change is what made the difference..there still is not enough variation between stnd and proto |
Mortedeamor
Internal Rebellion
436
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Posted - 2013.10.13 23:42:00 -
[12] - Quote
the removal of iron sights as laser is a long range weapon has made it usable..and it is a good weapon if you use it right..but there is not enough variation between the proto laser and stnd..there is reason to skill for skill bonuses..and the proto amarian assault is def worth getting ..but i would put a stnd laser rifle ona proto amarian suit with 100% laser skills anyday over viziam on proto assault...the cost and fitting requirements are not worth the difference it will make |
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