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S Park Finner DUST University Ivy League 313	Posted - 2013.10.07 13:21:00 - [1] - Quote CEOPyrex argues that DUST 514 can't compete in it's current design with BF4 and GTAOnline. Do you agree?
Cosgar ParagonX 5681	Posted - 2013.10.07 13:31:00 - [2] - Quote Compete with BF and GTA? This game still has issues that should have been resolved in early alpha, beta at the latest. I'd rather see CCP clean up their own yard before looking at what's in their neighbor's.
calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 1069	Posted - 2013.10.07 13:38:00 - [3] - Quote ya this game isn't even relatively in the same area to be competing with triple A games, lucikly it doesn't really matter what they do as long as they keep their player base up.
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 1698	Posted - 2013.10.07 13:51:00 - [4] - Quote S Park Finner wrote: CEOPyrex argues that DUST 514 can't compete in it's current design with BF4 and GTAOnline. Do you agree? And Eve can't compete with WoW. So f*ing what?
S Park Finner DUST University Ivy League 313	Posted - 2013.10.07 14:00:00 - [5] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: S Park Finner wrote: CEOPyrex argues that DUST 514 can't compete in it's current design with BF4 and GTAOnline. Do you agree? And Eve can't compete with WoW. So fing what? That's an excellent point. Does it have to? He can certainly speak for himself -- but I think the point of the video is that like it or not, with the current feature set and game types DUST 514 provides, those other games compete with it. And though EVE does not compete head-on with WoW, DUST 514 isn't different enough to avoid competition with the likes of BF4*. If I understand you correctly, it sounds like you believe DUST 514 is different enough to stand on it's own in the face of those games. Which of it's features -- current or projected -- leads you to think that?
Karl Koekwaus Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 191	Posted - 2013.10.07 14:02:00 - [6] - Quote at least in Dust your progress gets saved and logging in works. You can even start a battle and it works. GTA online has a lot going for it, but like with dust at this point it's all potential as nothing works reliable yet. Played BF4 for a bit, but for all the hype the game receives, i found it underwhelming :(
Anarchide Greedy Bastards 763	Posted - 2013.10.07 14:18:00 - [7] - Quote It's not about competition or having the biggeest E-Stick, it's about playing the games you like. BF4 and GTA are simply not my cup of Quafe.
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 819	Posted - 2013.10.07 14:35:00 - [8] - Quote S Park Finner wrote: Chunky Munkey wrote: S Park Finner wrote: CEOPyrex argues that DUST 514 can't compete in it's current design with BF4 and GTAOnline. Do you agree? And Eve can't compete with WoW. So fing what? That's an excellent point. Does it have to? He can certainly speak for himself -- but I think the point of the video is that like it or not, with the current feature set and game types DUST 514 provides, those other games compete with it. And though EVE does not compete head-on with WoW, DUST 514 isn't different enough to avoid competition with the likes of BF4*. If I understand you correctly, it sounds like you believe DUST 514 is different enough to stand on it's own in the face of those games. Which of it's features -- current or projected -- leads you to think that? For now, its in direct competition! The formulamis the same just with a few extra twists! Until DUST becomes truely unique, it can't compete, be when it does, it won't have to!
S Park Finner DUST University Ivy League 313	Posted - 2013.10.07 14:35:00 - [9] - Quote Anarchide wrote: It's not about competition or having the biggeest E-Stick, it's about playing the games you like. BF4 and GTA are simply not my cup of Quafe. That seems completely fair from an individual point of view. Even so, CCP is a business. Their stated intent is to continue to support DUST 514 and it's development. The smaller the number of players the lower the on-going revenue and the slower the development. Everyone has to run on a budget. While that is going on with DUST 514 the other developers are driving ahead with their own new initiatives. To return to the original question... what are the things about DUST 514 that make it attractive to you that the other games don't provide? As something of an aside... studies of free-to-play games suggest that only about 4% of players ever buy anything from the developer. Of those, 80% only buy "deals" that they feel are especially worth while. The remaining 20% -- 1% or less of total players -- are the "whales" that fund the game. I suspect all those percentages are higher for DUST 514 because the remaining players are those distilled from all the casual players.
ChromeBreaker SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1372	Posted - 2013.10.07 14:39:00 - [10] - Quote Its the $$$ thats holding me off right GTA/BF now. I never get a game off the bat, too many issues. Dust on the other hand... why not... not like ive lost anything lol
Void Echo Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 1645	Posted - 2013.10.07 14:55:00 - [11] - Quote I think that most game companies are taking the example from CCP and are creating more sandbox games, if there are more sandbox games in the market, dust wont survive the 1st week in the current state its in.
CLONE117 Planetary Response Organization Test Friends Please Ignore 395	Posted - 2013.10.07 14:57:00 - [12] - Quote make gta v free and ill play it instead of dust....
S Park Finner DUST University Ivy League 313	Posted - 2013.10.07 16:37:00 - [13] - Quote ChromeBreaker wrote: Its the $$$ thats holding me off right GTA/BF now. I never get a game off the bat, too many issues. Dust on the other hand... why not... not like ive lost anything lol There are a lot of threads that agree with this. If I understand the argument it's that being free-to-play will give DUST 514 an edge up because players will drop in once and a while for a few games or to see what's changed recently. As the game gets better they stick around longer and over the long run the player base increases. But clone117 says Quote: make gta v free and ill play it instead of dust.... and void echo said Quote: I think that most game companies are taking the example from CCP and are creating more sandbox games, if there are more sandbox games in the market, dust wont survive the 1st week in the current state its in. Since there is reputed to be an industry trend to free-to-play games that -- in and of itself -- isn't a sustainable differentiator. What else about DUST 514 do you get that you don't get from other games? What has CCP promised that will keep them different in the future and will keep you playing the game?
Anarchide Greedy Bastards 767	Posted - 2013.10.07 17:06:00 - [14] - Quote ...it's about EVE?
S Park Finner DUST University Ivy League 313	Posted - 2013.10.07 17:14:00 - [15] - Quote Anarchide wrote: ...it's about EVE? OK! The only FPS in the EVE Universe. That brings back story and with it a pile of reasons for things rather than their being magic. So people who like the idea of having a game make a kind of sense could prefer DUST 514 over other games because of that. What else?
GTA-V FTW Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 378	Posted - 2013.10.07 17:14:00 - [16] - Quote GTA V and BF4 will never be DUST's compotetion. They would have to be a garbage, broken, lobby FPS in order to be in the same league as DUST first. Considering they are both AAA's made by Devs who know what they are doing, CCP should not have to worry about them.
jin foxdale Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 67	Posted - 2013.10.07 17:22:00 - [17] - Quote <-------- he's what will will keep me coming back. I've poured blood, sweat, tears and a small amount of money into getting him to where he is today, and have no intention of leaving him to fester whilst I grind through the motions of another e-character. Its this reason I don't have an alt. I'm fully, 100% invested in jin foxdale. (as far as video games go anyway - in the real world its all about the wife and kids - now theres a time sink!)
Smooth Assassin Stardust incorporation 218	Posted - 2013.10.07 17:24:00 - [18] - Quote No grief on CCP but i'm positive they will improve!
Cosgar ParagonX 5695	Posted - 2013.10.07 17:25:00 - [19] - Quote GTA-V FTW wrote: GTA V and BF4 will never be DUST's compotetion. They would have to be a garbage, broken, lobby FPS in order to be in the same league as DUST first. Considering they are both AAA's made by Devs who know what they are doing, CCP should not have to worry about them. Shouldn't you be struggling to get online with GTA V?
S Park Finner DUST University Ivy League 313	Posted - 2013.10.07 17:26:00 - [20] - Quote GTA-V FTW wrote: GTA V and BF4 will never be DUST's compotetion. They would have to be a garbage, broken, lobby FPS in order to be in the same league as DUST first. Considering they are both AAA's made by Devs who know what they are doing, CCP should not have to worry about them. Your underlying point about the experience of the various studios is well taken -- if not very elegantly expressed. DICE has had 21 years (I believe they started out in 1992) to polish their objectives and tools and they've been focusing on FPSs for, what, the last 10 years? With a 15 year head start, a team almost as big as all of CCP, their own game engine and tools, and several years of BF4 development there's good reason their product should be more polished than CCP's. That doesn't mean, though, that CCP can't carve out a space for itself if it delivers things people want that other entrants in the market place don't provide. It's those things -- either delivered or promised -- that I'm looking for the community to bring up.
crazy space 1 Unkn0wn Killers 1803	Posted - 2013.10.07 17:30:00 - [21] - Quote It was able to when we had skirmish 1.0 Bases would fly out the sky, matches had muliple ways to win and lose. Oh man dust WAS such a good game, like, oh man, so good.
GTA-V FTW Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 378	Posted - 2013.10.07 17:35:00 - [22] - Quote Cosgar wrote: GTA-V FTW wrote: GTA V and BF4 will never be DUST's compotetion. They would have to be a garbage, broken, lobby FPS in order to be in the same league as DUST first. Considering they are both AAA's made by Devs who know what they are doing, CCP should not have to worry about them. Shouldn't you be struggling to get online with GTA V? Nope GTA V is SP, GTA O is MP. GTA V has worked for me since day one.
crazy space 1 Unkn0wn Killers 1803	Posted - 2013.10.07 17:35:00 - [23] - Quote S Park Finner wrote: ChromeBreaker wrote: Its the $$$ thats holding me off right GTA/BF now. I never get a game off the bat, too many issues. Dust on the other hand... why not... not like ive lost anything lol There are a lot of threads that agree with this. If I understand the argument it's that being free-to-play will give DUST 514 an edge up because players will drop in once and a while for a few games or to see what's changed recently. As the game gets better they stick around longer and over the long run the player base increases. But clone117 says Quote: make gta v free and ill play it instead of dust.... and void echo said Quote: I think that most game companies are taking the example from CCP and are creating more sandbox games, if there are more sandbox games in the market, dust wont survive the 1st week in the current state its in. Since there is reputed to be an industry trend to free-to-play games that -- in and of itself -- isn't a sustainable differentiator. What else about DUST 514 do you get that you don't get from other games? What has CCP promised that will keep them different in the future and will keep you playing the game? -A real player market -You can call in small mini turrets or large turrrets and depots, and use them to dish out some extra damage or create your own fortified base in the middle of a match -Every map you capture in PC will be different and you can run around in a huge sandbox PvE world, but it's own YOUR map hat YOU defend. It's the only one of it's kind and you learn the massive layout while cruising in your fighter jet looking over the land you've captured -Waterless world just because I can see a planet is 80% water doesn't mean I want water on the map like GTA 5 or BF4! water is dumb and far to hard to program anyways, as long as I play dust I get to play a dusty fps.
S Park Finner DUST University Ivy League 313	Posted - 2013.10.07 17:36:00 - [24] - Quote jin foxdale wrote: (Points at his character) ... he's what will will keep me coming back. I've poured blood, sweat, tears and a small amount of money into getting him to where he is today, and have no intention of leaving him to fester whilst I grind through the motions of another e-character. Its this reason I don't have an alt. I'm fully, 100% invested in jin foxdale. (as far as video games go anyway - in the real world its all about the wife and kids - now theres a time sink!) All right -- commitment to the character you create in DUST 514 in a way other games don't provide. I'd argue that comes from more flexible customization and less forced character classes tied with the SP investment and time it takes to build just the character you want so you can play just the way you want.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 1186	Posted - 2013.10.07 17:57:00 - [25] - Quote What happens to my BF4 character when BF5 comes out?
S Park Finner DUST University Ivy League 313	Posted - 2013.10.07 18:00:00 - [26] - Quote crazy space 1 wrote: -A real player market -You can call in small mini turrets or large turrrets and depots, and use them to dish out some extra damage or create your own fortified base in the middle of a match -Every map you capture in PC will be different and you can run around in a huge sandbox PvE world, but it's own YOUR map hat YOU defend. It's the only one of it's kind and you learn the massive layout while cruising in your fighter jet looking over the land you've captured -Waterless world just because I can see a planet is 80% water doesn't mean I want water on the map like GTA 5 or BF4! water is dumb and far to hard to program anyways, as long as I play dust I get to play a dusty fps. Just to keep the list going... Some of these are futures but they've been discussed as "on the roadmap/backlog" Player market (in a EVE based FPS) Calling in persistent game assets - - The difference between DUST 514 and others is the difference between player control over calling in your own tank/turret/what-ever as opposed to having them spawn / respawn on the battlefield. Greater variation in maps with mix-and-match installations and terrain which will build over time as new assets are created. Potential for ownership of territory. - - Though this isn't visible to the troops on the ground in any plans I've seen. Players can't go to a location their corporation owns and just fly/walk/drive around and have the place have the same layout it had the last time they were there. Things I didn't include... Fighter jets -- certainly a thing lots of folks like and would want but not different for DUST 514 than for other similar games. Waterless world -- just because lack of an option doesn't seem like a differentiating feature.
Cyrius Li-Moody The New Age Outlaws 1158	Posted - 2013.10.07 18:00:00 - [27] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: What happens to my BF4 character when BF5 comes out? Back to grinding for barrels, sights, and equipment. ^_^
Vrain Matari ZionTCD 1045	Posted - 2013.10.07 18:07:00 - [28] - Quote I think of GTA V and BF4 as high rpm, short-stroke, high horsepower products. I think of EVE & DUST as low rpm, long-stroke, high torque products. I like them both, but it's pretty hard to mistake one for the other, once you know what to look for.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 1186	Posted - 2013.10.07 18:11:00 - [29] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: What happens to my BF4 character when BF5 comes out? Back to grinding for barrels, sights, and equipment. ^_^ Exactly... All the time I put into BF4 means nothing when BF5 comes out. Edit: Add to this the ability to leave for days, months, even years, then come back and take up exactly where you left off. No, wait, it would be beyond where you left off since you donGÇÖt have to cancel your account on a Free to Play game, my characters would be accumulating skill points while I am gone. DUST is a really easy game to come back to. You donGÇÖt have to grind for a week to become competitive again. ____________________________________________________________________________ Immortal Guides, supporting knowledge dissemination in New Eden since August 31, 2013.
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 1700	Posted - 2013.10.07 18:16:00 - [30] - Quote S Park Finner wrote: Chunky Munkey wrote: S Park Finner wrote: CEOPyrex argues that DUST 514 can't compete in it's current design with BF4 and GTAOnline. Do you agree? And Eve can't compete with WoW. So fing what? That's an excellent point. Does it have to? He can certainly speak for himself -- but I think the point of the video is that like it or not, with the current feature set and game types DUST 514 provides, those other games compete with it. And though EVE does not compete head-on with WoW, DUST 514 isn't different enough to avoid competition with the likes of BF4. If I understand you correctly, it sounds like you believe DUST 514 is different enough to stand on it's own in the face of those games. Which of it's features -- current or projected -- leads you to think that? I don't think it has anything to set it apart right now. It's the central theme of this game to look forward to what might be, rather than accept the sub-standard there is, but its potential connection to another MMO, its potential for more meaningful team & clan-based combat, and its potential for meta-gaming & broader strategy elements sets it apart from other games. Even though right now it is just another lobby shooter, we can't go comparing it to other lobby shooters like it should be competing with them. That'd be like comparing a decathlete's performance in the 100m to Usain Bolt and telling them they'll never win gold. We still have 9 events to go yet.
low genius the sound of freedom Renegade Alliance 638	Posted - 2013.10.07 18:17:00 - [31] - Quote S Park Finner wrote: CEOPyrex argues that DUST 514 can't compete in it's current design with BF4 and GTAOnline. Do you agree? we'll see. the gta5 on my friendslist has already dropped by 80%
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 1187	Posted - 2013.10.07 18:28:00 - [32] - Quote S Park Finner, you are doing a good job facilitating this discussion.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 9260	Posted - 2013.10.07 18:32:00 - [33] - Quote Someone told me he beat GTA Online already and I was like wtf how did you manage that with the server issues? Also the time to do all of it... I mean I still haven't beaten FFXIV yet though slowly getting there.
ladwar Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 1875	Posted - 2013.10.07 18:33:00 - [34] - Quote totally disagree.. unless you want to wait 4 years for that beta to come out and start the process over again.
ladwar Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 1875	Posted - 2013.10.07 18:36:00 - [35] - Quote low genius wrote: S Park Finner wrote: CEOPyrex argues that DUST 514 can't compete in it's current design with BF4 and GTAOnline. Do you agree? we'll see. the gta5 on my friendslist has already dropped by 80% most people see gta games as solo maybe co-op games so yea...they slated themselves for an uphill battle for online content. personally i could careless about their online side.
S Park Finner DUST University Ivy League 313	Posted - 2013.10.07 18:47:00 - [36] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: I think of GTA V and BF4 as high rpm, short-stroke, high horsepower products. I think of EVE & DUST as low rpm, long-stroke, high torque products. .... and Fox Gaden wrote: GÇª Add to this the ability to leave for days, months, even years, then come back and take up exactly where you left off. No, wait, it would be beyond where you left off since you donGÇÖt have to cancel your account on a Free to Play game, my characters would be accumulating skill points while I am gone. DUST is a really easy game to come back to. You donGÇÖt have to grind for a week to become competitive again. ... This is a really neat point. DUST 514 might not be the most accessible game. It's hard to get started. But once you get started it's easier to get back into and you aren't penalized (too much) for stepping away and coming back. As far as I know there isn't any FPS that has a similar mechanism and something fresh to come back to without paying real money to get the update. Chunky Munkey wrote: ... potential connection to another MMO, potential for more meaningful team & clan-based combat potential for meta-gaming & broader strategy elements Futures keeping people in the game GÇô and variations, I'd suggest, of the point about character building. The character you create has a place in a bigger world and once it has it you don't want to give it up. Of course it means the game has to be there and the path for players has to be hard enough to be meaningful but not so hard that people give up.
S Park Finner DUST University Ivy League 313	Posted - 2013.10.07 18:49:00 - [37] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: S Park Finner, you are doing a good job facilitating this discussion. Thanks -- but people have been stepping up with good stuff so it's easy to keep it together.
Needless Sacermendor Red Fox Brigade 510	Posted - 2013.10.07 18:55:00 - [38] - Quote GTA-V FTW wrote: Nope GTA V is SP, GTA O is MP. GTA V has worked for me since day one. You must be THE lucky one ... since EVERYONE I know has lost modded cars out of their garages AND I guess you must be one of the tards with an iphone since their app isn't available on any other device and I believe is STILL buggy as hell on ios. Didn't think you'd still be trying to claim GTA was so great after all the problems it's had since launch.
The legend345 TeamPlayers EoN. 1159	Posted - 2013.10.07 19:12:00 - [39] - Quote S Park Finner wrote: CEOPyrex argues that DUST 514 can't compete in it's current design with BF4 and GTAOnline. Do you agree? Do i agree? Its not competing now what kind of questions is this
GTA-V FTW Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 379	Posted - 2013.10.07 19:39:00 - [40] - Quote Needless Sacermendor wrote: GTA-V FTW wrote: Nope GTA V is SP, GTA O is MP. GTA V has worked for me since day one. You must be THE lucky one ... since EVERYONE I know has lost modded cars out of their garages AND I guess you must be one of the tards with an iphone since their app isn't available on any other device and I believe is STILL buggy as hell on ios. Didn't think you'd still be trying to claim GTA was so great after all the problems it's had since launch. LOL You fanbois crack me up. Hows that DUST Vita app coming along? Pffff please! BTW sorry all your frinds are tards, you know everyone you know and all.
Needless Sacermendor Red Fox Brigade 510	Posted - 2013.10.07 19:50:00 - [41] - Quote S Park Finner wrote: what are the things about DUST 514 that make it attractive to you that the other games don't provide? The connection to Eve is what sets it aside ... and always will. The metagaming we've already seen on a small scale of corporations being infiltrated and robbed and disbanded, imagine when that happens to one of the major corps ... it might not make news headlines like Eve does, but it'll certainly make legends new players will hear about in conversations for years to come. The new corp roles coming tomorrow are opening up more of this side of the gameplay. How about the 'future roadmap' stuff related to skyfire cannons and the ability to shoot down Eve ships ... how many other games do you expect will be able to connect 2 different genres of game on 2 different platforms (not just different consoles, which I don't imagine Rockstar is even contemplating with GTA ... PS3 and Xbox are completely isolated) ... DUST already does this with Eve players currently able to fire Orbital support down onto the DUST battlefield in real time ! There's also the whole different ways to play side of things ... I know most will scoff at these since they just want to PVP in an FPS (lets face it that's all they're doing in GTA online ! ) ... but there are many people in Eve who never leave Jita 4.4 and spend all their time buying and selling stuff on the market for profit ... people who do nothing but manufacture stuff to sell to the people who go getting themselves blown up using it ... or the people who sit in asteroid belts cycling lazers onto asteroids ... or people who simply make copies of their researched BPOs and sell them in contracts ... the list goes on ... but there will be different 'ways to play' DUST when we have manufacture and secondary market and PVE and command dropsuits (which are the ones ment to control the MCC and strategise placement of vehicles n turrets etc.)...(not sure if this one is still planned or abandonded). Ohh and not forgetting the most important one ... as someone else has already touched on ... DUST is a persistent game ... there will NEVER be a DUST 2 or a DUST 515 ... there will only ever be DUST 514 ... and as someone mentioned your character will still be here when DUST begins it's second decade and T3 HAVs are roaming round with customizable slot loadouts and ewar setups and who knows what else, maybe even transformer style vehicles that can fly and drive and enter siege mode costing hundreds of million isk and 50 mil sp just to operate. DUST will persist while there are people who want more depth to their gaming than just shoot everything that moves ... and there are lots of those people waiting for it's foundations to set.
S Park Finner DUST University Ivy League 313	Posted - 2013.10.07 19:51:00 - [42] - Quote ladwar wrote: low genius wrote: ... we'll see. the gta5 on my friendslist has already dropped by 80% most people see gta games as solo maybe co-op games so yea...they slated themselves for an uphill battle for online content. personally i could careless about their online side. In fairness to CEOPyrex, his point about GTA5O has to do with the way they handle open worlds rather than other aspects of the game. He's suggesting that kind of change is what DUST 514 needs. There is an echo of that direction in the comments about commitment to the game, the nostalgia for Skirmish 1.0 and wanting to walk around on one's own planet. If CCP could engineer that with an eye to giving players more sense of place I believe it would be a big win and contribute significantly to DUST 514's success.
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 517	Posted - 2013.10.07 19:58:00 - [43] - Quote Anarchide wrote: ...it's about EVE? It's supposed to be about EVE. Not a game in its own right. That makes it J.O.F.F.P.S.
Needless Sacermendor Red Fox Brigade 511	Posted - 2013.10.07 20:02:00 - [44] - Quote GTA-V FTW wrote: LOL You fanbois crack me up. Hows that DUST Vita app coming along? Pffff please! BTW sorry all your frinds are tards, you know everyone you know and all. DUST Vita app is being developed ... by a small development company with little experience with consoles. GTA V's ios app was developed by people who clearly have something going on with apple ... I'd imagine (knowing how apple operate) an expensive lawsuit pending for use of a phone that "looks like" the iphone ... which they're holding off providing they don't release the app on any other device for a month or more. Yet GTA V's ios app is still buggy as hell. People still can't get the license plates they've ordered, and peoples dogs are dead (or whatever) from not being able to use the app. and the last part just makes me laugh ... school yard retorts ... "well if I'm one then you must be one", "it takes one to know one", "my dads bigger than your dad" ... Grow up !
Guilbert 515 United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 18	Posted - 2013.10.07 20:09:00 - [45] - Quote CLONE117 wrote: make gta v free and ill play it instead of dust.... I wouldnt even play gta v if it was for free. I mean if i wanna be a gangster protecting my hood, id just go out on the street and act. But becoming an immortal soldier, flying dropships and stuff is not so easilly accomplished. This is sci fi, and i love it, an entire universe at my hands, running a corporation, playing nice and foul on a massive scale.. **** id wish it die and be reborn again in the eve universe... Please take me in your battleship across the galaxy and deploy me!
S Park Finner DUST University Ivy League 319	Posted - 2013.10.07 20:14:00 - [46] - Quote Needless Sacermendor wrote: S Park Finner wrote: what are the things about DUST 514 that make it attractive to you that the other games don't provide? The connection to Eve is what sets it aside ... and always will.... How about the 'future roadmap' stuff related to skyfire cannons and the ability to shoot down Eve ships ... how many other games do you expect will be able to connect 2 different genres of game on 2 different platforms (not just different consoles, which I don't imagine Rockstar is even contemplating with GTA ... PS3 and Xbox are completely isolated) ... DUST already does this with Eve players currently able to fire Orbital support down onto the DUST battlefield in real time ! There's also the whole different ways to play side of things ... I know most will scoff at these since they just want to PVP in an FPS (lets face it that's all they're doing in GTA online ! ) ... but there are many people in Eve who never leave Jita 4.4 and spend all their time buying and selling stuff on the market for profit ... people who do nothing but manufacture stuff to sell to the people who go getting themselves blown up using it ... or the people who sit in asteroid belts cycling lazers onto asteroids ... or people who simply make copies of their researched BPOs and sell them in contracts ... the list goes on ... but there will be different 'ways to play' DUST when we have manufacture and secondary market and PVE and command dropsuits (which are the ones ment to control the MCC and strategise placement of vehicles n turrets etc.)...(not sure if this one is still planned or abandonded).... I especially like your first point about firing from the ground into space. I'd forgotten about that. It does depend on CCP designing a way to make DUST 514 relevant to EVE players and that has been elusive so far. Without that there won't be any ships up there to shoot or be shot by. With regard to different ways to play I'm less certain of the points you've made. CCP have emphasized that DUST 514 must stand on its own -- be viable without EVE. Given that, if manufacturing is introduced (or many of the other options you suggest) it would have to be in a way which, if eve was not there, would not disrupt DUST 514. That could mean allowing all those things to exist in DUST 514 or it might mean only allowing them to exist in EVE with NPC corps providing those services if EVE players don't step up. It might well be something else entirely. That being said, there are a lot of ways to play DUST 514 right now within the scope of an FPS with RPG elements. And as you point out that's one of the things players say they like best.
S Park Finner DUST University Ivy League 319	Posted - 2013.10.07 20:21:00 - [47] - Quote Guilbert 515 wrote: CLONE117 wrote: make gta v free and ill play it instead of dust.... I wouldnGÇÖt even play gta v if it was for free. I mean if i wanna be a gangster protecting my hood, id just go out on the street and act. But becoming an immortal soldier, flying dropships and stuff is not so easily accomplished. This is sci fi, and i love it, an entire universe at my hands, running a corporation, playing nice and foul on a massive scale.. **** id wish it die and be reborn again in the eve universe... Please take me in your battleship across the galaxy and deploy me! I think Guilbert 515 makes a point that should be emphasized. EVE has a big story and if CCP succeeds in showing how DUST 514 players can live in it in some immersive way it will be a big win. We've seen threads of this running though this whole discussion.
Vrain Matari ZionTCD 1047	Posted - 2013.10.07 20:29:00 - [48] - Quote In regards to the relevance of DUST to EVE, that is not a problem. There's a lot of pilots really hoping DUST isn't too relevant to EVE, tbh. In exactly the same way that a lot of us mercs are hoping that EVE doesn't become too relevant to DUST ;) This hasn't happened yet because CCP doesn't want it to happen yet. I applaud their priorities here and making the hard decisions required to establish a solid foundation for DUST and sticking with those decisions - 'eating their vergetables', some might call it.
GTA-V FTW Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 380	Posted - 2013.10.07 21:09:00 - [49] - Quote Needless Sacermendor wrote: GTA-V FTW wrote: LOL You fanbois crack me up. Hows that DUST Vita app coming along? Pffff please! BTW sorry all your frinds are tards, you know everyone you know and all. DUST Vita app is being developed ... by a small development company with little experience with consoles. GTA V's ios app was developed by people who clearly have something going on with apple ... I'd imagine (knowing how apple operate) an expensive lawsuit pending for use of a phone that "looks like" the iphone ... which they're holding off providing they don't release the app on any other device for a month or more. Yet GTA V's ios app is still buggy as hell. People still can't get the license plates they've ordered, and peoples dogs are dead (or whatever) from not being able to use the app. and the last part just makes me laugh ... school yard retorts ... "well if I'm one then you must be one", "it takes one to know one", "my dads bigger than your dad" ... Grow up ! LOL whatever fanboi. Keep telling yourself whatever you need to. Just like the game you defend you are boring so I am done with you. So run along now little fanboi run along and play your lol lobby FPS.
Needless Sacermendor Red Fox Brigade 512	Posted - 2013.10.07 21:23:00 - [50] - Quote Yeah I agree ... a lot of this integration can't even be considered until DUST is in a stable position with very little imbalance and a solid PVE setup to generate it's own wealth and it's own stable player run economy ... it's like the 'set foundation' metaphor I used ... you can't build on wet concrete and if you try to start building bridges across to phase 1 you'll only be tearing chunks off that structure if your new building isn't stable. Yes some of it does depend on the 2 games being relevant to each other, the seeds for this have been sown with Eve pilots getting bonuses to structures orbiting planets controlled by their corp in PC ... second to that will be integration of contracts allowing Eve corps to contract DUST corps, or viceversa, to take control of planets on their behalf ... this will provide the incentive for the Eve corp to support the attack, while the defending corp, be it DUST or Eve, can hire pilots or mercs to help fend off the attack to maintain control for their, either Eve or DUST, bonuses. Hope that makes sense, there's too many possibilities I'm trying to include ... maybe a DUST corp owns a planet and is getting bonuses to clone count in neighbouring PC battles (for example) but an Eve corp wants to control this planet to bonus their moon harvesting nearby, so the DUST corp hires an Eve corp to defend from the attack in space and the Eve corp hires a DUST corp to launch the ground attack. But then (metagaming) the defending DUST corp pays a few billion isk to the hired attacking DUST corp not to complete their contract ... or the attacking Eve corp pays the hired defending Eve corp to warp away and void their contract ... AND in both cases ... they could double bluff taking the isk AND completing the contract, thus fulfilling their role as a true Mercenary corp or griefing Eve corp. But the bonuses need to be worthwhile, and the contracts need to be integrated, and PC needs to be opened New Eden wide ... then we have a worthwhile connection.
Needless Sacermendor Red Fox Brigade 512	Posted - 2013.10.07 22:06:00 - [51] - Quote GTA-V FTW wrote: LOL whatever fanboi. Keep telling yourself whatever you need to. Just like the game you defend you are boring so I am done with you. So run along now little fanboi run along and play your lol lobby FPS. Hahaha ... kids make me laugh. I haven't played DUST in ... let's see now ... about 2 weeks ! ... before that I hadn't played nearly as often as I used to. Funny that ... 2 weeks ago is about the time another game released ... what was it now !? I've played GTA V ... I bought it on release day ... I hadn't planned to, but I impulse bought it cos I liked GTA 3 ... 4 was utter rubbish but someone told me on release day 5 was more like 3 so I went n got it. I was already getting bored of my AV being unchallenging so I'd not been DUSTing so much n GTA V put an end to it. It made me laugh when day 1 people were losing cars and properties and there was no android app and the ios app didn't work at all while Rockstar were counting their billion profits, but hey, I enjoyed the offline game. Then the online started ... for a select few ... while the majority couldn't log in due to "a PlayStation Network server issue" "that was limiting the amount of possible concurrent users." ... yeah I'm sure it was an issue with the servers ... not an issue with how you were trying to use them ... I'm sure Sony jumped out of bed to sort that problem out for you !! It's all here on their website in the last 2 news pages. The latest one being a list of fixes ... temp characters overwriting main characters, money and property disappearing, removal of the autosave cos it was corrupting GTA V save files and "improving overall stability" ... lol, yet it still takes ages to load anything and still fails to connect and still doesn't show either of the characters I've created and played to level 5ish. You seriously think GTA V isn't a lobby shooter ... have you read ANY of this thread, or even watched the video in the OP ... perhaps you didn't understand the big words ... or maybe you got bored after the intro music ... but there's been a discussion here about the FACT that GTA V is just the same as a lobby game in that you are instanced with around 20 other players and in order to interact with others you have to leave one session and join another ... there's NOTHING different about that than joining a different battle in DUST ... they've just taken the 'lobby list' and hidden it away in the menu / online / players submenu. If you can't handle a proper, reasoned, adult argument then I can understand your boredom and reluctance to continue ... I used to do the same when I was immature, thankfully I grew out of it like most people do when you start big school.
Magnus Amadeuss DUST University Ivy League 88	Posted - 2013.10.07 22:10:00 - [52] - Quote First I want to thank CEOPyrex for the video series he does, it is awesome and I do watch them from time to time. You can tell he genuinely loves Dust and the whole EVE universe, and that he wants to see the game succeed. I think he is right in that CCP does need something more for Dust, I just think he latched on to the GTA model because it is the most recent "new" thing. I do hope that CCP does realize that content is king, and that not all content is created equally. Some content, such as player run economies, will add to your game forever because they allow emergent gameplay. Other content, such as suits and UI's, will add some to the game but not indefinitely. Of course this is not to say that new items and UI's are not important because of course they are. I just hope that CCP realizes the need to also heavily focus on incorporating ways for us to create gameplay in a PERSISTANT way.
Maximus Stryker Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 626	Posted - 2013.10.07 22:29:00 - [53] - Quote Really hoping we get Battle Arenas soon with game modes like Capture the Flag, King of the Hill, Free For All and Demolition Imagine a world were you had: Small Battle Arenas with 4v4, 6v6 or 8v8 Faction Warfare and PC for 16v16 Null Sec for 32v32 or 64v64
S Park Finner DUST University Ivy League 321	Posted - 2013.10.07 22:38:00 - [54] - Quote Maximus Stryker wrote: Really hoping we get Battle Arenas soon with game modes like Capture the Flag, King of the Hill, Free For All and Demolition Imagine a world were you had: Small Battle Arenas with 4v4, 6v6 or 8v8 Faction Warfare and PC for 16v16 Null Sec for 32v32 or 64v64 This is an area of FPS's I don't know much about. Are there ad hoc player-arranged team matches in other FPS games? I know there has been a lot of forum call for this kind of thing but I don't know if CCP have said it is on the list. If it's not common in other games and CCP has said something about including it then it should go on the list!
GTA-V FTW Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 380	Posted - 2013.10.07 23:24:00 - [55] - Quote S Park Finner wrote: Maximus Stryker wrote: Really hoping we get Battle Arenas soon with game modes like Capture the Flag, King of the Hill, Free For All and Demolition Imagine a world were you had: Small Battle Arenas with 4v4, 6v6 or 8v8 Faction Warfare and PC for 16v16 Null Sec for 32v32 or 64v64 This is an area of FPS's I don't know much about. Are there ad hoc player-arranged team matches in other FPS games? I know there has been a lot of forum call for this kind of thing but I don't know if CCP have said it is on the list. If it's not common in other games and CCP has said something about including it then it should go on the list! In March of this year CCP_Foxfour said Quote: Hope this is not too divergent from the OP, but arena matches between groups of players (not necessarily corporations) with agreed upon terms (reward, match type, map, etc.) and that allows betting from others. Discuss. I am interested in hearing what you guys think. Hope I don't need to say this, but I am: This is just something I would love to see, not something we are doing. I just want to get your guys opinion and feedback on it. So I don't think it's in-plan. Anymore game modes would just split this already tiny playerbase and create even more match making issues. We will be lucky to even see skirmish 1.0 come back any time soon. CCP needs to get people to start playing this game before we get anymore game modes.
S Park Finner DUST University Ivy League 321	Posted - 2013.10.08 00:09:00 - [56] - Quote GTA-V FTW wrote: ... Anymore game modes would just split this already tiny playerbase and create even more match making issues. We will be lucky to even see skirmish 1.0 come back any time soon. CCP needs to get people to start playing this game before we get anymore game modes. I'm in complete agreement. But the flavour of the thread has been "What features of DUST 514 that players like -- current or promised for the future -- will differentiate it from potential competitors". So if a suggestion meets those criteria it would be worth putting on the list. Unfortunately for arenas, since CCP seems to have indicated they are not in plan, they don't fit.
GTA-V FTW Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 381	Posted - 2013.10.08 00:13:00 - [57] - Quote S Park Finner wrote: GTA-V FTW wrote: ... Anymore game modes would just split this already tiny playerbase and create even more match making issues. We will be lucky to even see skirmish 1.0 come back any time soon. CCP needs to get people to start playing this game before we get anymore game modes. I'm in complete agreement. But the flavour of the thread has been "What features of DUST 514 that players like -- current or promised for the future -- will differentiate it from potential competitors". So if a suggestion meets those criteria it would be worth putting on the list. Unfortunately for arenas, since CCP seems to have indicated they are not in plan, they don't fit. Arena use to be in CCP's plan.
S Park Finner DUST University Ivy League 321	Posted - 2013.10.08 00:21:00 - [58] - Quote GTA-V FTW wrote: ... Arena use to be in CCP's plan. What can I say? I couldn't find any CCP referene later than this one I quoted before from CCP_Wolfman in March: Quote: Hope I don't need to say this, but I am: This is just something I would love to see, not something we are doing. I just want to get your guys opinion and feedback on it Do you know of any later reference?
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1075	Posted - 2013.10.08 00:29:00 - [59] - Quote Void Echo wrote: I think that most game companies are taking the example from CCP and are creating more sandbox games, if there are more sandbox games in the market, dust wont survive the 1st week in the current state its in. What do sandbox games have to do with DUST? It's a lobby shooter with Sci-Fi elements, vehicles, and Strafe Shooter mechanics. This puts it up against CoD or Halo, not sansbox games like Just Case, GTA, Saints Row, Prototype, etcetcetc. If anything, I think the PvE will set it apart as long as it's deeper than just a Horde mode. Hopefully it'll be infiltration and extermination of drone-held territory. At least until Warframe comes out of beta. Even then, Warframe isn't a PvP game, where DUST will have PvP and PvE. Not to say Warframe doesn't have PvP, but it is and shall always remain a joke.
S Park Finner DUST University Ivy League 321	Posted - 2013.10.08 02:09:00 - [60] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: ... What do sandbox games have to do with DUST? It's a lobby shooter with Sci-Fi elements, vehicles, and Strafe Shooter mechanics. This puts it up against CoD or Halo, not sansbox games like Just Case, GTA, Saints Row, Prototype, etcetcetc. If anything, I think the PvE will set it apart as long as it's deeper than just a Horde mode. Hopefully it'll be infiltration and extermination of drone-held territory. At least until Warframe comes out of beta. Even then, Warframe isn't a PvP game, where DUST will have PvP and PvE. Not to say Warframe doesn't have PvP, but it is and shall always remain a joke. PvE tied to the back story and with an impact on the world would be uniquely DUST 514. Its a great idea and I know CCP has committed to it even though they say it won't be real soon. To your point about sandbox games -- some players in this thread have talked about being able to roam around the territories they occupy. And if it goes that way, interaction between players in other-than-combat situations could add more of a sandbox element. Also, sandbox doesn't have to mean open world investigation in the style of Skyrim -- it could me less constrained exploration of other game elements like combinations of skills or fitting variation. Still, your point is well taken. It doesn't seem to be evolving in the direction of GTAO's kind of sandbox.
Arirana Ancient Exiles 153	Posted - 2013.10.08 02:15:00 - [61] - Quote Compete with BF4/GTA O? As a FPS Dust couldn't compete with Call of Duty 4, and COD 4 is 6 years old. Dust is the ugly duckling of FPS. Most console FPS players won't touch it because of its poor core mechanics and graphics, and most Eve players won't touch it because its a FPS, and on the console. Dust is just that game thats looked at by everyone in confusion.
Flux Raeder WarRavens League of Infamy 297	Posted - 2013.10.08 02:31:00 - [62] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: I think of GTA V and BF4 as high rpm, short-stroke, high horsepower products. I think of EVE & DUST as low rpm, long-stroke, high torque products. I like them both, but it's pretty hard to mistake one for the other, once you know what to look for. Great analogy ^^^
Jack Kittinger DUST University Ivy League 51	Posted - 2013.10.08 03:02:00 - [63] - Quote Just bidding my time til MGSV and it's online gameplay
S Park Finner DUST University Ivy League 322	Posted - 2013.10.08 21:46:00 - [64] - Quote Results of what's in the thread here.

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