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General Grodd
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
306
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 03:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
I have been shield tanking since the beginning of the open beta, though many do not know me because im no huge forum poster lol. I'm just gonna give my two cents on AV and armor vs shield tanks. First I will start off with AV... Enjoy!
Swarms are quite simply OP. Besides being invisible and turning corners, they cause ridiculous amounts of damage. My shield tank has passive 33.5% dmg reduction, and since explosives do 20% less damage to shields, I take roughly half damage (passively) from swarms. And I still can be soloed by one guy with a Proto swarm launcher, even if my booster is active. This is beyond illogical. Now consider the cost my tank versus the swarms, my large turret alone is worth more than 20 of entire Proto suit fittings. And of course the swarms are invisible and cover isn't an option because they just go over, under, around it or just warp to my tank in some odd way (that has literally happened to me a few times, but mainly due to lag.
Av grenades are OP. Obviously they do less damage to shields, so there's my one advantage. But Av grenades, quite simply, can be spammed. Nanohive+cover+homing capabilities make it completely impossible for me to attack a well experienced AV grenadier. They sit in a spot I can't shoot nor reach them, while throw they them relentlessly, because with the nanohive they have virtually infinite ammunition. finally the homing capabilities means they don't need to see me or get out of cover, just throw them like there's no tomorrow. And once and for all, the cost for AV grenades are ya know... Roughly up to 1000 times cheaper than my tank fitting (literally).
Forge guns is a tough one. They deal extreme damage over large distances. But did you know Proto forge guns are more powerful than Proto railguns? "Well forge guns have ammo n reload" says dummy 245. Well, according to these new charts... railguns will have ammo and have to reload. So... more power, less cost, it outdoes the railgun in every purpose the railgun has. On a side note, we have no Proto tanks, so it's not easy to judge with forge guns because the Proto ones are the only ones that truly pose a threat to me. Of course forge gunners mostly hide in cover, so we can't shoot them. Most forge gunners I know even agree vehicles are up, because they are normally full time forge gunners.
Armor vs. Shield tanks:
This is crraaaazzzzyy maaannnn!!!! But seriously, it is. I personally, cannot win in most situations against an armored rail madrugar of equal skill if with any turret. If the madrugar has bladders, however, I will win as long as I either sneak behind them, or stay at a distance with missile and rail turrets. I cannot win one on one against a blaster armor madrugar with a blaster turret of my own of equal skill unless I sneak up on them. And all comes down to this: with armor hardeners they have more passive resistance than I, their heavy reppers give more HP in a shorter amount of time than shield boosters, they have higher HP, and they can move faster, so no escape. |
Cy Clone1
Intara Direct Action Caldari State
259
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 03:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
yeah,pretty much sums it up. |
Xender17
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
730
|
Posted - 2013.10.06 03:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
The damage bonus/deduction when it come to shield/armor doesn't matter. The regenHP + 1000 more HP + plus even a bit of passive resistance nullifies the advantage of having shields. |
Prince Mahav's
Heavy Attack Vehicles Elite
12
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 21:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
General Grodd wrote:I have been shield tanking since the beginning of the open beta, though many do not know me because im no huge forum poster lol. I'm just gonna give my two cents on AV and armor vs shield tanks. First I will start off with AV... Enjoy!
Swarms are quite simply OP. Besides being invisible and turning corners, they cause ridiculous amounts of damage. My shield tank has passive 33.5% dmg reduction, and since explosives do 20% less damage to shields, I take roughly half damage (passively) from swarms. And I still can be soloed by one guy with a Proto swarm launcher, even if my booster is active. This is beyond illogical. Now consider the cost my tank versus the swarms, my large turret alone is worth more than 20 of entire Proto suit fittings. And of course the swarms are invisible and cover isn't an option because they just go over, under, around it or just warp to my tank in some odd way (that has literally happened to me a few times, but mainly due to lag.
Av grenades are OP. Obviously they do less damage to shields, so there's my one advantage. But Av grenades, quite simply, can be spammed. Nanohive+cover+homing capabilities make it completely impossible for me to attack a well experienced AV grenadier. They sit in a spot I can't shoot nor reach them, while throw they them relentlessly, because with the nanohive they have virtually infinite ammunition. finally the homing capabilities means they don't need to see me or get out of cover, just throw them like there's no tomorrow. And once and for all, the cost for AV grenades are ya know... Roughly up to 1000 times cheaper than my tank fitting (literally).
Forge guns is a tough one. They deal extreme damage over large distances. But did you know Proto forge guns are more powerful than Proto railguns? "Well forge guns have ammo n reload" says dummy 245. Well, according to these new charts... railguns will have ammo and have to reload. So... more power, less cost, it outdoes the railgun in every purpose the railgun has. On a side note, we have no Proto tanks, so it's not easy to judge with forge guns because the Proto ones are the only ones that truly pose a threat to me. Of course forge gunners mostly hide in cover, so we can't shoot them. Most forge gunners I know even agree vehicles are up, because they are normally full time forge gunners.
Armor vs. Shield tanks:
This is crraaaazzzzyy maaannnn!!!! But seriously, it is. I personally, cannot win in most situations against an armored rail madrugar of equal skill if with any turret. If the madrugar has blasters, however, I will win as long as I either sneak behind them, or stay at a distance with missile and rail turrets. I cannot win one on one against a blaster armor madrugar with a blaster turret of my own of equal skill unless I sneak up on them. And all comes down to this: with armor hardeners they have more passive resistance than I, their heavy reppers give more HP in a shorter amount of time than shield boosters, they have higher HP, and they can move faster, so no escape.
Free bump!.... We're NOT going to let this post die. It's a problem to shield tanks. We are seriously U.P. Armor tanks has a hell of an advantage. |
True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2760
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 21:35:00 -
[5] - Quote
I disagree with the swarms being OP somewhat. They are the long range, hard counter to my beloved Armour HAV.
However rather than simply nerfing them, can we make them more in keeping with the Caldari style of combat?
How?
Increasing the initial lock on time, possibly to the region of between 3-6 seconds. Now swarmer's need to consider strong positions when firing and not simply strafing the hell out of tanks.
I also feel like during this lock on time we must, as tankers have some means to breaking lock, either moving to within a certain distance, exposing ourselves to AV grenades or, to a longer distance where swarms cannot lock to, but can travel to. This could also pave the way for vehicle counter measures against swarms, and AV.
E.G Magnetic inversion fields to deny AV nades their locking, AMS to dislock swarms and force them to travel in a straight path (only useful for a single second of gameplay).
Swarms should retain their DPS though, keep them firing at the same rate for the same damage but lets put limits on the swarms auto locking capabilities. They should be very long range AV weapons, not something that can be easily spammed within say 20m by a strafing scout or Speed tanker.
I also think everyone knows how I feel about AV grenades, they make no sense.
However to rectify them lets reduce the carry capacity to 1-2, not allow grenade respawns from nanohives, and increase the Alpha of the grenades |
Benjamin Ciscko
S.e.V.e.N.
76
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 21:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
I'm an armor tanker and I say as far as armor vs shield double shield boost and make shield tanks distinctly faster than armor so their able to do what their supposed hit run and get the jump on people. |
True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2760
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 21:38:00 -
[7] - Quote
Benjamin Ciscko wrote:I'm an armor tanker and I say as far as armor vs shield double shield boost and make shield tanks distinctly faster than armor so their able to do what their supposed hit run and get the jump on people. They will be one day due to the new prospective change to HAV and vehicles, with the shield injector, as I have heard, allowing for 23K EHP, while armour tanks sit at something like 12K. |
Benjamin Ciscko
S.e.V.e.N.
76
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 21:45:00 -
[8] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:I disagree with the swarms being OP somewhat. They are the long range, hard counter to my beloved Armour HAV.
However rather than simply nerfing them, can we make them more in keeping with the Caldari style of combat?
How?
Increasing the initial lock on time, possibly to the region of between 3-6 seconds. Now swarmer's need to consider strong positions when firing and not simply strafing the hell out of tanks.
I also feel like during this lock on time we must, as tankers have some means to breaking lock, either moving to within a certain distance, exposing ourselves to AV grenades or, to a longer distance where swarms cannot lock to, but can travel to. This could also pave the way for vehicle counter measures against swarms, and AV.
E.G Magnetic inversion fields to deny AV nades their locking, AMS to dislock swarms and force them to travel in a straight path (only useful for a single second of gameplay).
Swarms should retain their DPS though, keep them firing at the same rate for the same damage but lets put limits on the swarms auto locking capabilities. They should be very long range AV weapons, not something that can be easily spammed within say 20m by a strafing scout or Speed tanker.
I also think everyone knows how I feel about AV grenades, they make no sense.
However to rectify them lets reduce the carry capacity to 1-2, not allow grenade respawns from nanohives, and increase the Alpha of the grenades. Maybe as soon as tank hits x miles an hour between 50-75% of max speed the swarm can not lock. This allows stupid tankers who think their tank is invincible to get soloed while also leaving tanks vulnerable as they slow down to round corners. And AV nades just lol they need a carry count nerf as you said how ever I think you they should be replenish able with a handicap of course such as 5 second wait in between grenade resupply's or make the nanite requirement so high you can only resupply 1-3 or employ both.
Shield Tanks should eat up Swarmers and AV grenades but suffer like armour tanks do against the new Amarr Heavy weapon, and the Forgegun.
|
Benjamin Ciscko
S.e.V.e.N.
76
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 21:48:00 -
[9] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Benjamin Ciscko wrote:I'm an armor tanker and I say as far as armor vs shield double shield boost and make shield tanks distinctly faster than armor so their able to do what their supposed hit run and get the jump on people. They will be one day due to the new prospective change to HAV and vehicles, with the shield injector, as I have heard, allowing for 23K EHP, while armour tanks sit at something like 12K. I thought they were trying to force they hit and run aspect of shield tanks now your telling me shield and armor tanks will be flipped. |
KING CHECKMATE
TEAM SATISFACTION
1648
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 21:49:00 -
[10] - Quote
General Grodd wrote:I have been shield tanking since the beginning of the open beta, though many do not know me because im no huge forum poster lol. I'm just gonna give my two cents on AV and armor vs shield tanks. First I will start off with AV... Enjoy!
Swarms are quite simply OP. Besides being invisible and turning corners, they cause ridiculous amounts of damage. My shield tank has passive 33.5% dmg reduction, and since explosives do 20% less damage to shields, I take roughly half damage (passively) from swarms. And I still can be soloed by one guy with a Proto swarm launcher, even if my booster is active. This is beyond illogical. Now consider the cost my tank versus the swarms, my large turret alone is worth more than 20 of entire Proto suit fittings. And of course the swarms are invisible and cover isn't an option because they just go over, under, around it or just warp to my tank in some odd way (that has literally happened to me a few times, but mainly due to lag.
Av grenades are OP. Obviously they do less damage to shields, so there's my one advantage. But Av grenades, quite simply, can be spammed. Nanohive+cover+homing capabilities make it completely impossible for me to attack a well experienced AV grenadier. They sit in a spot I can't shoot nor reach them, while throw they them relentlessly, because with the nanohive they have virtually infinite ammunition. finally the homing capabilities means they don't need to see me or get out of cover, just throw them like there's no tomorrow. And once and for all, the cost for AV grenades are ya know... Roughly up to 1000 times cheaper than my tank fitting (literally).
Forge guns is a tough one. They deal extreme damage over large distances. But did you know Proto forge guns are more powerful than Proto railguns? "Well forge guns have ammo n reload" says dummy 245. Well, according to these new charts... railguns will have ammo and have to reload. So... more power, less cost, it outdoes the railgun in every purpose the railgun has. On a side note, we have no Proto tanks, so it's not easy to judge with forge guns because the Proto ones are the only ones that truly pose a threat to me. Of course forge gunners mostly hide in cover, so we can't shoot them. Most forge gunners I know even agree vehicles are up, because they are normally full time forge gunners.
Armor vs. Shield tanks:
This is crraaaazzzzyy maaannnn!!!! But seriously, it is. I personally, cannot win in most situations against an armored rail madrugar of equal skill if with any turret. If the madrugar has blasters, however, I will win as long as I either sneak behind them, or stay at a distance with missile and rail turrets. I cannot win one on one against a blaster armor madrugar with a blaster turret of my own of equal skill unless I sneak up on them. And all comes down to this: with armor hardeners they have more passive resistance than I, their heavy reppers give more HP in a shorter amount of time than shield boosters, they have higher HP, and they can move faster, so no escape.
So basically ANOTHER Tanker QQ thread. Tsch... and i was looking on some advice on Shield tanks, all i got is tears... |
|
True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2762
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 22:24:00 -
[11] - Quote
Benjamin Ciscko wrote:True Adamance wrote:Benjamin Ciscko wrote:I'm an armor tanker and I say as far as armor vs shield double shield boost and make shield tanks distinctly faster than armor so their able to do what their supposed hit run and get the jump on people. They will be one day due to the new prospective change to HAV and vehicles, with the shield injector, as I have heard, allowing for 23K EHP, while armour tanks sit at something like 12K. I thought they were trying to force they hit and run aspect of shield tanks now your telling me shield and armor tanks will be flipped. Somebody worked this out on the forums, I would take it with a grain of salt, we aren't all maths majors like CCP.
But they are making Shield tanks very resilient in this sense, though I think this is to facilitate escapes rather than to enable straight up combat.
Basically I feel like CCP is reversing the role of vehicle shields vs armour.
Armour should/ is slated to be slow passive reps, rather than prodigious reps for a stand and deliver, while shields will be prodigious with no passive, so the rumours say. |
Evolution-8
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 06:21:00 -
[12] - Quote
Free dump |
Spkr4theDead
Red Star. EoN.
981
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 06:26:00 -
[13] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:General Grodd wrote:I have been shield tanking since the beginning of the open beta, though many do not know me because im no huge forum poster lol. I'm just gonna give my two cents on AV and armor vs shield tanks. First I will start off with AV... Enjoy!
Swarms are quite simply OP. Besides being invisible and turning corners, they cause ridiculous amounts of damage. My shield tank has passive 33.5% dmg reduction, and since explosives do 20% less damage to shields, I take roughly half damage (passively) from swarms. And I still can be soloed by one guy with a Proto swarm launcher, even if my booster is active. This is beyond illogical. Now consider the cost my tank versus the swarms, my large turret alone is worth more than 20 of entire Proto suit fittings. And of course the swarms are invisible and cover isn't an option because they just go over, under, around it or just warp to my tank in some odd way (that has literally happened to me a few times, but mainly due to lag.
Av grenades are OP. Obviously they do less damage to shields, so there's my one advantage. But Av grenades, quite simply, can be spammed. Nanohive+cover+homing capabilities make it completely impossible for me to attack a well experienced AV grenadier. They sit in a spot I can't shoot nor reach them, while throw they them relentlessly, because with the nanohive they have virtually infinite ammunition. finally the homing capabilities means they don't need to see me or get out of cover, just throw them like there's no tomorrow. And once and for all, the cost for AV grenades are ya know... Roughly up to 1000 times cheaper than my tank fitting (literally).
Forge guns is a tough one. They deal extreme damage over large distances. But did you know Proto forge guns are more powerful than Proto railguns? "Well forge guns have ammo n reload" says dummy 245. Well, according to these new charts... railguns will have ammo and have to reload. So... more power, less cost, it outdoes the railgun in every purpose the railgun has. On a side note, we have no Proto tanks, so it's not easy to judge with forge guns because the Proto ones are the only ones that truly pose a threat to me. Of course forge gunners mostly hide in cover, so we can't shoot them. Most forge gunners I know even agree vehicles are up, because they are normally full time forge gunners.
Armor vs. Shield tanks:
This is crraaaazzzzyy maaannnn!!!! But seriously, it is. I personally, cannot win in most situations against an armored rail madrugar of equal skill if with any turret. If the madrugar has blasters, however, I will win as long as I either sneak behind them, or stay at a distance with missile and rail turrets. I cannot win one on one against a blaster armor madrugar with a blaster turret of my own of equal skill unless I sneak up on them. And all comes down to this: with armor hardeners they have more passive resistance than I, their heavy reppers give more HP in a shorter amount of time than shield boosters, they have higher HP, and they can move faster, so no escape. So basically ANOTHER Tanker QQ thread. Tsch... and i was looking on some advice on Shield tanks, all i got is tears...OP your title is misleading, it actually makes us think you are special. Where's leukoplast? |
Spkr4theDead
Red Star. EoN.
981
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 06:27:00 -
[14] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Benjamin Ciscko wrote:True Adamance wrote:Benjamin Ciscko wrote:I'm an armor tanker and I say as far as armor vs shield double shield boost and make shield tanks distinctly faster than armor so their able to do what their supposed hit run and get the jump on people. They will be one day due to the new prospective change to HAV and vehicles, with the shield injector, as I have heard, allowing for 23K EHP, while armour tanks sit at something like 12K. I thought they were trying to force they hit and run aspect of shield tanks now your telling me shield and armor tanks will be flipped. Somebody worked this out on the forums, I would take it with a grain of salt, we aren't all maths majors like CCP. But they are making Shield tanks very resilient in this sense, though I think this is to facilitate escapes rather than to enable straight up combat. Basically I feel like CCP is reversing the role of vehicle shields vs armour. Armour should/ is slated to be slow passive reps, rather than prodigious reps for a stand and deliver, while shields will be prodigious with no passive, so the rumours say. I think passive rep rate for shield is going to be somewhere on the order of 160/sec. |
Obodiah Garro
Tech Guard RISE of LEGION
388
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 08:02:00 -
[15] - Quote
Swarms are OP?
Stop talking. |
Faquira Bleuetta
TeamPlayers EoN.
114
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 08:18:00 -
[16] - Quote
General Grodd wrote:I have been shield tanking since the beginning of the open beta, though many do not know me because im no huge forum poster lol. I'm just gonna give my two cents on AV and armor vs shield tanks. First I will start off with AV... Enjoy!
Swarms are quite simply OP. Besides being invisible and turning corners, they cause ridiculous amounts of damage. My shield tank has passive 33.5% dmg reduction, and since explosives do 20% less damage to shields, I take roughly half damage (passively) from swarms. And I still can be soloed by one guy with a Proto swarm launcher, even if my booster is active. This is beyond illogical. Now consider the cost my tank versus the swarms, my large turret alone is worth more than 20 of entire Proto suit fittings. And of course the swarms are invisible and cover isn't an option because they just go over, under, around it or just warp to my tank in some odd way (that has literally happened to me a few times, but mainly due to lag.
Av grenades are OP. Obviously they do less damage to shields, so there's my one advantage. But Av grenades, quite simply, can be spammed. Nanohive+cover+homing capabilities make it completely impossible for me to attack a well experienced AV grenadier. They sit in a spot I can't shoot nor reach them, while throw they them relentlessly, because with the nanohive they have virtually infinite ammunition. finally the homing capabilities means they don't need to see me or get out of cover, just throw them like there's no tomorrow. And once and for all, the cost for AV grenades are ya know... Roughly up to 1000 times cheaper than my tank fitting (literally).
Forge guns is a tough one. They deal extreme damage over large distances. But did you know Proto forge guns are more powerful than Proto railguns? "Well forge guns have ammo n reload" says dummy 245. Well, according to these new charts... railguns will have ammo and have to reload. So... more power, less cost, it outdoes the railgun in every purpose the railgun has. On a side note, we have no Proto tanks, so it's not easy to judge with forge guns because the Proto ones are the only ones that truly pose a threat to me. Of course forge gunners mostly hide in cover, so we can't shoot them. Most forge gunners I know even agree vehicles are up, because they are normally full time forge gunners.
Armor vs. Shield tanks:
This is crraaaazzzzyy maaannnn!!!! But seriously, it is. I personally, cannot win in most situations against an armored rail madrugar of equal skill if with any turret. If the madrugar has blasters, however, I will win as long as I either sneak behind them, or stay at a distance with missile and rail turrets. I cannot win one on one against a blaster armor madrugar with a blaster turret of my own of equal skill unless I sneak up on them. And all comes down to this: with armor hardeners they have more passive resistance than I, their heavy reppers give more HP in a shorter amount of time than shield boosters, they have higher HP, and they can move faster, so no escape.
unrustle your jimmies |
Jack McReady
DUST University Ivy League
655
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 08:26:00 -
[17] - Quote
another guy that cannot properly fit his tank and runs rambo into a squad |
chase rowland
The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo
32
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 16:39:00 -
[18] - Quote
Prince Mahav's wrote:General Grodd wrote:I have been shield tanking since the beginning of the open beta, though many do not know me because im no huge forum poster lol. I'm just gonna give my two cents on AV and armor vs shield tanks. First I will start off with AV... Enjoy!
Swarms are quite simply OP. Besides being invisible and turning corners, they cause ridiculous amounts of damage. My shield tank has passive 33.5% dmg reduction, and since explosives do 20% less damage to shields, I take roughly half damage (passively) from swarms. And I still can be soloed by one guy with a Proto swarm launcher, even if my booster is active. This is beyond illogical. Now consider the cost my tank versus the swarms, my large turret alone is worth more than 20 of entire Proto suit fittings. And of course the swarms are invisible and cover isn't an option because they just go over, under, around it or just warp to my tank in some odd way (that has literally happened to me a few times, but mainly due to lag.
Av grenades are OP. Obviously they do less damage to shields, so there's my one advantage. But Av grenades, quite simply, can be spammed. Nanohive+cover+homing capabilities make it completely impossible for me to attack a well experienced AV grenadier. They sit in a spot I can't shoot nor reach them, while throw they them relentlessly, because with the nanohive they have virtually infinite ammunition. finally the homing capabilities means they don't need to see me or get out of cover, just throw them like there's no tomorrow. And once and for all, the cost for AV grenades are ya know... Roughly up to 1000 times cheaper than my tank fitting (literally).
Forge guns is a tough one. They deal extreme damage over large distances. But did you know Proto forge guns are more powerful than Proto railguns? "Well forge guns have ammo n reload" says dummy 245. Well, according to these new charts... railguns will have ammo and have to reload. So... more power, less cost, it outdoes the railgun in every purpose the railgun has. On a side note, we have no Proto tanks, so it's not easy to judge with forge guns because the Proto ones are the only ones that truly pose a threat to me. Of course forge gunners mostly hide in cover, so we can't shoot them. Most forge gunners I know even agree vehicles are up, because they are normally full time forge gunners.
Armor vs. Shield tanks:
This is crraaaazzzzyy maaannnn!!!! But seriously, it is. I personally, cannot win in most situations against an armored rail madrugar of equal skill if with any turret. If the madrugar has blasters, however, I will win as long as I either sneak behind them, or stay at a distance with missile and rail turrets. I cannot win one on one against a blaster armor madrugar with a blaster turret of my own of equal skill unless I sneak up on them. And all comes down to this: with armor hardeners they have more passive resistance than I, their heavy reppers give more HP in a shorter amount of time than shield boosters, they have higher HP, and they can move faster, so no escape. Free bump!.... We're NOT going to let this post die. It's a problem to shield tanks. We are seriously U.P. Armor tanks has a hell of an advantage. armour is used for vehicle vs vehicle, sheild is for vehicle vs infantry. notice most close combat AV weapons are explosives (AV nade,s swarms, missiles), this means a disadvantage for armour while sheilds are devastated by hybrid weapons( like rail, forge gun, and blaster). if sheilds were better against armour then why would armour even exist? |
Tebu Gan
CrimeWave Syndicate
139
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 19:09:00 -
[19] - Quote
So, reading through this I have seen a lot of, hmm how to put this nicely, stupid posts.
For the matter of Shield tanks vs Armor tanks:
Rails Armor is greater than Shields, in nearly every single aspect. Clearly some of you do not play tanks with the rest of us. A well fit maddie with a rail, is impossible to drop before they would drop you. Yes I have dropped me some maddies, but those guys clearly were confused when it came to fitting.
I have used both a high mitigation rail fit and a glass cannon rail fit against the well fit maddies. In most every instance, I was forced to back off far before I came close to dropping the enemy maddie. The way things are now, gunnlogi's are meant for long range engagements, as the aur tank is prefit with a rail. Yet a maddie will excel in this area. A lot of this is due to the extreme healing they can do, coupled with a much higher resistance. In a straight up exchange of fire, a maddie will always be able to outlast a gunnlogi. This is were I feel the 2 should be balanced, one shouldn't excel over the other. But the maddie does.
Blaster When it comes to a blaster logi and a blaster maddie, maddie wins hands down. But I feel this is how it should be.
Missiles So natrually the counter to a blaster maddie is a missile logi or a rail logi. So let's look at the blaster maddie with a missile logi. In most every instance, the blaster maddie will take out the missile logi. Why? Again, higher resistance, better heals, and SPEED. Missiles have some pretty awesome range, roughly 250m to a blasters 150 m. So it would make sense to use the range to your advantage. But a maddie is far faster than the logi, and will catch up to a missile logi before the missile logi can drop the maddie. Gunnlogis are slooow, when compared to a maddie. If you don't believe me than you need to go out there and test this out yourself, it is a fact.
Being unable to keep any sort of range, coupled with the higher resistance, and higher healing potential, puts the gunnlogi at a serious disadvantage in these situations.
Nuff said on that.
AV vs Tanks Swarms, yes weak swarms below advanced are hardly an issue. Though, when you get to the proto tier, things change drastically. I do hear a lot of Swarmers complaining they can't drop tanks, to you I say you are doing it wrong. There have been several instances where a single swarmer has removed half of my shields from a single volley. This is not right, for that one guy can own a tank all on his own. Something that is far more expensive than his own setup is nullified just like that.
Forge gunners are more powerful than a rail gun, how does that make sense, really?
How is that even fair, as I have been running a logi suit these past few weeks, there have been a few things I have noticed with the infantry.
-Proto suits consistently have far fewer deaths, with far more kills than their counter parts. -Proto suits cost far less than a single tank, but they have the same mentality as good tankers do, don't die. -Isk is hardly an issue to infantry. If it is, again you are doing it wrong.
To run a single tank, I need to run 4 to 5 matches just to pay for one tank. Running anything less then the best is what I call suicide btw when it comes to tanks. It takes a LOT of SP investment into vehicles as well to run these bad boys. They are nothing like infantry where you can start reaping the benefits right away, you need several million to be a viable player on the field, where as my logi suit only has 1.5 to 2 million invested. And I can shred some faces.
Yes, there are games where my tank owns the field, but hey, guess what. I'm also a decent player with 8.5 mil SP. I've put in a fair amount of time to get to where I am. More often than not though I'm forced into hiding, or destroyed. Rarely have I had over a million isk.
And people actually complain about redline sniper tanks, hey there is a reason people do it, ISK. When all of your points are spent in tanking, I want to use a tank dammit when I play a game. But there have been times I simply could not afford to lose one. Though I will admit, I don't play from the redline anymore, and even back then, I would always pull my tank up at some point because it is very boring otherwise.
But when it only takes a single person to neutralize a tank, or send him running, I say there is a problem. I mean really, what is wrong with you infantry. 3 or 4 people using milita swarms of all things, can neutralize a tank! And you have a free freaking starter fit for that very purpose! Throw in a few AV grenades and you have a smoking husk of a former tank.
Quite honestly, to those that really think tanks are fine as they are, I can only shake my head in shame. For the most part, it's due to your lack of skills or understanding from my point of view.
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Sparta447
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
1
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Posted - 2013.10.19 18:49:00 -
[20] - Quote
General Grodd wrote:I have been shield tanking since the beginning of the open beta, though many do not know me because im no huge forum poster lol. I'm just gonna give my two cents on AV and armor vs shield tanks. First I will start off with AV... Enjoy!
Swarms are quite simply OP. Besides being invisible and turning corners, they cause ridiculous amounts of damage. My shield tank has passive 33.5% dmg reduction, and since explosives do 20% less damage to shields, I take roughly half damage (passively) from swarms. And I still can be soloed by one guy with a Proto swarm launcher, even if my booster is active. This is beyond illogical. Now consider the cost my tank versus the swarms, my large turret alone is worth more than 20 of entire Proto suit fittings. And of course the swarms are invisible and cover isn't an option because they just go over, under, around it or just warp to my tank in some odd way (that has literally happened to me a few times, but mainly due to lag.
Av grenades are OP. Obviously they do less damage to shields, so there's my one advantage. But Av grenades, quite simply, can be spammed. Nanohive+cover+homing capabilities make it completely impossible for me to attack a well experienced AV grenadier. They sit in a spot I can't shoot nor reach them, while throw they them relentlessly, because with the nanohive they have virtually infinite ammunition. finally the homing capabilities means they don't need to see me or get out of cover, just throw them like there's no tomorrow. And once and for all, the cost for AV grenades are ya know... Roughly up to 1000 times cheaper than my tank fitting (literally).
Forge guns is a tough one. They deal extreme damage over large distances. But did you know Proto forge guns are more powerful than Proto railguns? "Well forge guns have ammo n reload" says dummy 245. Well, according to these new charts... railguns will have ammo and have to reload. So... more power, less cost, it outdoes the railgun in every purpose the railgun has. On a side note, we have no Proto tanks, so it's not easy to judge with forge guns because the Proto ones are the only ones that truly pose a threat to me. Of course forge gunners mostly hide in cover, so we can't shoot them. Most forge gunners I know even agree vehicles are up, because they are normally full time forge gunners.
Armor vs. Shield tanks:
This is crraaaazzzzyy maaannnn!!!! But seriously, it is. I personally, cannot win in most situations against an armored rail madrugar of equal skill if with any turret. If the madrugar has blasters, however, I will win as long as I either sneak behind them, or stay at a distance with missile and rail turrets. I cannot win one on one against a blaster armor madrugar with a blaster turret of my own of equal skill unless I sneak up on them. And all comes down to this: with armor hardeners they have more passive resistance than I, their heavy reppers give more HP in a shorter amount of time than shield boosters, they have higher HP, and they can move faster, so no escape.
So i shield tank too! We get respec right? NO A bit of hp? NO Oh maybe since shield tanks are supposed to hit and run we have better boosters right? NO NO AND NO Shield tanks suck, AV weapons OP (except forge gun), OP AV plus CRAP shield tank equals a broke shield tanker like me :D |
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