DUST Search - Dust no skill game?

Himiko Kuronaga wrote:

Iron Wolf Saber wrote:

All subjective. Low end skill of just about any game feels like a challenge, the question is what does it take to hit the ceiling.

Star Craft 2 for example is bad on this as there is only one ladder to climb to the ceiling and its name is APM. Intellect or smartly deployed tactics rarely has a chance against someone with 100+ more APM. Where as Annihilation type strategy games are far better because you can over strategize your next 10 minutes because you can queue your entire plans at a time. While faster AMP would help out there when the plans fail recovery is not as hard or when a plan fails it is typically a death blow.

Shooters are entirely different bag of nuts because most shooters rewards both reflexive or smart or both styles of play at the same time. Dust 514 and BF series capitalize being able to being smarter, but still rewards being good at the gun game as well. Call of Duty strongly emphasizes the gun reflex game however which is why it is constantly branded as an arcade shooter; to which most arcade games are what it is, a reflex game.

Now if you asked me where planetside 2 is, it should be in the tactical field, the tools are there, as are the means and execution but the way players are currently forcing it to play nearly punishes being smarter as being too time costly and time is the only real resource in that game. Stupid and large numbers pays off entirely too much over smart and efficient.

Also if you want to talk about how much perfectly balanced PS2 is versus Dust 514, why does it take a light tank nearly 20 tank shells to die, but 4 infantry rockets or one aircraft mounted cannon to kill? Railguns in dust guts just about any other tank in 5 shots or less, blasters one heat cycle, missiles 5 or less direct hit vollies.

Meanwhile, Counter-Strike master race looks at our silly evolution and thinks we're all a bunch of pussies.

And they would be right.

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Eris Ernaga Super Nerds 608	Posted - 2013.10.05 20:07:00 - [1] - Quote Just played the battlefield 4 beta it's not final work so it's not that great but I realized how easy Dust is. 0 recoil guns with overly powerful aim assist. In bf4 the recoil on the gun I am using is so insane I can't even hit anything unless I am close to the enemy I also don't feel aim assist is helping. So is Dust to easy? I would say yes.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 6419	Posted - 2013.10.05 20:14:00 - [2] - Quote Its not as simple as recoil = more skill. Dust requires a different set of skills. Being a high health shooter means you have to be able to maintain your aim on a target for much longer than a game like BF or CoD, and the prevalence of strafing means that both players in the fight may be moving targets mean you have to keep your aim on a moving target for a long period of time while also moving yourself. Having to maintain aim for a long time while simultaneously moving against a moving target is something many new players in Dust struggle with when coming from low-health games. No skill or not, I actually enjoy Dust's style of gameplay better. I LOVE being able to accurately hipfire, and guns taking relatively long to kill. Killzone 2 did a great job with recoil, hipfire, and damage though; I wouldn't mind if Dust was more like that.
J Lav OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 236	Posted - 2013.10.05 20:17:00 - [3] - Quote Of course if you play the support class in BF4 Beta, you'll feel like everyone has a lot of health... That starter LMG is terrible. :P On the topic of aim assist, I'll be blunt, you'd have to be plain ignorant to not notice the aim assist in BF4. It's a faster pace, so you may get caught in the smoke and mirrors.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 6419	Posted - 2013.10.05 20:19:00 - [4] - Quote I'll see if I can get into the beta to test if this "not feeling aim assist" claim is true. It sounds extremely dubious.
DJINN Marauder Ancient Exiles 1632	Posted - 2013.10.05 20:24:00 - [5] - Quote My dust problems after Bf4: I keep trying to switch weapons with triangle. I keep trying to mark enemies for my team with r2. I'm bursting my shots at med range thinking there's recoil I'm having trouble aiming BECAUSE there's no recoil (lol) I keep trying to go prone
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 6421	Posted - 2013.10.05 20:40:00 - [6] - Quote DJINN Marauder wrote: My dust problems after Bf4: I keep trying to switch weapons with triangle. I keep trying to mark enemies for my team with r2. I'm bursting my shots at med range thinking there's recoil I'm having trouble aiming BECAUSE there's no recoil (lol) I keep trying to go prone There is a Battleground control scheme based on battlefield's (which I use), it lets you switch with triangle, among other things.
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 1226	Posted - 2013.10.05 20:55:00 - [7] - Quote Eris Ernaga wrote: In bf4 the recoil on the gun I am using is so insane I can't even hit anything unless I am close to the enemy You need to learn to control your recoil and only feather-tap your trigger and stop spray-and-pray if you have trouble with the recoil in BF4.
Wey Yu Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 1	Posted - 2013.10.05 20:59:00 - [8] - Quote Sorry man but ive been playing DUST514 for 3 days now, and to be honest as a sniper having to double tap someone and quite possibly use a third shot if you did not finish them at 400-500m with a tactical sniper takes a great deal of skill.
Eris Ernaga Super Nerds 610	Posted - 2013.10.06 18:26:00 - [9] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Its not as simple as recoil = more skill. Dust requires a different set of skills. Being a high health shooter means you have to be able to maintain your aim on a target for much longer than a game like BF or CoD, and the prevalence of strafing means that both players in the fight may be moving targets, so you have to keep your aim on a moving target for a long period of time while also moving yourself. Having to maintain aim for a long time while simultaneously moving against a moving target is something many new players in Dust struggle with when coming from low-health games. No skill or not, I actually enjoy Dust's style of gameplay better. I LOVE being able to accurately hipfire, and guns taking relatively long to kill. Killzone 2 did a great job with recoil, hipfire, and damage though; I wouldn't mind if Dust was more like that. Strafing is an annoying tactic and it doesn't work in bf4 which I like. And honestly most enemys don't take more then a clip to kill in Dust especially with AA the survivability really isn't much higher then in BF one grenade can kill just about anything in Dust.
Eris Ernaga Super Nerds 610	Posted - 2013.10.06 18:27:00 - [10] - Quote J Lav wrote: Of course if you play the support class in BF4 Beta, you'll feel like everyone has a lot of health... That starter LMG is terrible. :P On the topic of aim assist, I'll be blunt, you'd have to be plain ignorant to not notice the aim assist in BF4. It's a faster pace, so you may get caught in the smoke and mirrors. Yeah I am using it hate it because of the terrible damage in BF3 the LMGs had a huge clip but also good damage loved mowing through people. Also yes the AA can be noticed sometimes but it isn't overwhelming and a game breaker. In a game where you have to pay for your suits AA has to be rethought in Dust especially when it gives a boost to weapons like AR.

Eris Ernaga Super Nerds 610	Posted - 2013.10.06 18:28:00 - [11] - Quote DJINN Marauder wrote: My dust problems after Bf4: I keep trying to switch weapons with triangle. I keep trying to mark enemies for my team with r2. I'm bursting my shots at med range thinking there's recoil I'm having trouble aiming BECAUSE there's no recoil (lol) I keep trying to go prone XD I can agree with all of these. I love BF4 movement options though parachuting in which you can kinda land where you want, prone and crawling in prone, leaning (needs polish) and the big one vaulting plus unlimited jump and sprint the movement options are amazing.
Eris Ernaga Super Nerds 610	Posted - 2013.10.06 18:29:00 - [12] - Quote Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: Eris Ernaga wrote: In bf4 the recoil on the gun I am using is so insane I can't even hit anything unless I am close to the enemy You need to learn to control your recoil and only feather-tap your trigger and stop spray-and-pray if you have trouble with the recoil in BF4. Doesn't really work for LMGs I have kinda switched over to shotguns they are amazing they just eat through ammo so quickly. Also going for a carbine really close to it.
Eris Ernaga Super Nerds 610	Posted - 2013.10.06 18:31:00 - [13] - Quote Wey Yu wrote: Sorry man but ive been playing DUST514 for 3 days now, and to be honest as a sniper having to double tap someone and quite possibly use a third shot if you did not finish them at 400-500m with a tactical sniper takes a great deal of skill. Sniping is broken in Dust well not broken but needs some serious improvements. Plus no bullet drop insta hit weapons don't take much skill considering in other games there is bullet drop and bullet travel time. Rendering distance problems, frame rate drops, lagg spikes, graphical glitches, bad hit detection, and bullets not registering at valid shots is just irritating sniping in Dust for me.
Aero Yassavi PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 2612	Posted - 2013.10.06 18:32:00 - [14] - Quote Because aiming is the only skill involved in an FPS
Azura Sakura Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 520	Posted - 2013.10.06 19:24:00 - [15] - Quote Eris Ernaga wrote: Just played the battlefield 4 beta it's not final work so it's not that great but I realized how easy Dust is. 0 recoil guns with overly powerful aim assist. In bf4 the recoil on the gun I am using is so insane I can't even hit anything unless I am close to the enemy I also don't feel aim assist is helping. So is Dust to easy? I would say yes. Any game becomes easy once you played it enough. All about them muscle memories.
Ranger SnakeBlood OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 214	Posted - 2013.10.06 19:38:00 - [16] - Quote Having fun trying out stuff in Battlefield 4 beta must admit i have missed the playstyle i find it is much more enjoyable than dust weapons feel more violent and you always feel in danger unlike dust were you feel over confident most of the time due to long ttks, battlefield definatly do weapon balence better perhaps carbines need some work as they can make any class a assualt class, but there is nothing i feel is useless tanks perform well despite powerful AV weapons and other tanks if used right, choppers are dangerous and hard to kill for now at least, i can see them getting less frequent once more people get stinger missiles. Also a noticable improvement on destruction compared to B3 not quite BC2 levels but its a good direction.
S Park Finner DUST University Ivy League 312	Posted - 2013.10.06 19:57:00 - [17] - Quote I think the DUST 514 ability to call in vehicles is a plus over the BF series. I've heard a lot of folks complaining they don't get a chance at the vehicles in BF. Another thing is being able to pretty much build your own class in DUST 514. It's a lot harder in BF. Since I can't shoot worth snot building up a support class is a lot more fun for me. On the the other hand, the commo-rose implementation in BF is a lot better than DUST 514. If I am seeing it right it tries to pick the most likely option for the thing you are aiming at when you bring up the wheel. It makes tagging a target or asking for a ride a lot easier. I was struck by how many of the problems the BF4 demo has that DUST 514 has/has-had -- flagging team members inconsistently, draw distance issues, tacky textures and the like. To the OPs point -- I do think it's easier to kill things BF4 but easier to avoid being killed in DUST 514 -- mostly because of the combination of tracking vs twitch and DUST 514's ability to fit for defence.
Athena Sentinel Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 117	Posted - 2013.10.06 20:09:00 - [18] - Quote DJINN Marauder wrote: I keep trying to go prone LOL
Rei Shepard Spectre II 658	Posted - 2013.10.06 21:12:00 - [19] - Quote Eris Ernaga wrote: Just played the battlefield 4 beta it's not final work so it's not that great but I realized how easy Dust is. 0 recoil guns with overly powerful aim assist. In bf4 the recoil on the gun I am using is so insane I can't even hit anything unless I am close to the enemy I also don't feel aim assist is helping. So is Dust to easy? I would say yes. BF4 guns got recoil ? In a game where a few rounds are deadly ? No they don't.
itsmellslikefish DIOS EX. Top Men. 278	Posted - 2013.10.06 21:28:00 - [20] - Quote Eris Ernaga wrote: Just played the battlefield 4 beta it's not final work so it's not that great but I realized how easy Dust is. 0 recoil guns with overly powerful aim assist. In bf4 the recoil on the gun I am using is so insane I can't even hit anything unless I am close to the enemy I also don't feel aim assist is helping. So is Dust to easy? I would say yes. Played it too, the true reason is that dust has space guns, its a futuaristic game so wepons ance to be better than puny earth wepons. The only thing I noticed was that I die faster in dust then in Be4

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 9238	Posted - 2013.10.06 21:36:00 - [21] - Quote All subjective. Low end skill of just about any game feels like a challenge, the question is what does it take to hit the ceiling. Star Craft 2 for example is bad on this as there is only one ladder to climb to the ceiling and its name is APM. Intellect or smartly deployed tactics rarely has a chance against someone with 100+ more APM. Where as Annihilation type strategy games are far better because you can over strategize your next 10 minutes because you can queue your entire plans at a time. While faster AMP would help out there when the plans fail recovery is not as hard or when a plan fails it is typically a death blow. Shooters are entirely different bag of nuts because most shooters rewards both reflexive or smart or both styles of play at the same time. Dust 514 and BF series capitalize being able to being smarter, but still rewards being good at the gun game as well. Call of Duty strongly emphasizes the gun reflex game however which is why it is constantly branded as an arcade shooter; to which most arcade games are what it is, a reflex game. Now if you asked me where planetside 2 is, it should be in the tactical field, the tools are there, as are the means and execution but the way players are currently forcing it to play nearly punishes being smarter as being too time costly and time is the only real resource in that game. Stupid and large numbers pays off entirely too much over smart and efficient. Also if you want to talk about how much perfectly balanced PS2 is versus Dust 514, why does it take a light tank nearly 20 tank shells to die, but 4 infantry rockets or one aircraft mounted cannon to kill? Railguns in dust guts just about any other tank in 5 shots or less, blasters one heat cycle, missiles 5 or less direct hit vollies.
Crash Monster Snipers Anonymous 1574	Posted - 2013.10.06 21:38:00 - [22] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Shooters are entirely different bag of nuts I hate to take your words out of context but that does describe some portion of the player base...
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 9238	Posted - 2013.10.06 21:39:00 - [23] - Quote Crash Monster wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Shooters are entirely different bag of nuts I hate to take your words out of context but that does describe some portion of the player base...
Himiko Kuronaga SyNergy Gaming EoN. 1759	Posted - 2013.10.06 21:40:00 - [24] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: All subjective. Low end skill of just about any game feels like a challenge, the question is what does it take to hit the ceiling. Star Craft 2 for example is bad on this as there is only one ladder to climb to the ceiling and its name is APM. Intellect or smartly deployed tactics rarely has a chance against someone with 100+ more APM. Where as Annihilation type strategy games are far better because you can over strategize your next 10 minutes because you can queue your entire plans at a time. While faster AMP would help out there when the plans fail recovery is not as hard or when a plan fails it is typically a death blow. Shooters are entirely different bag of nuts because most shooters rewards both reflexive or smart or both styles of play at the same time. Dust 514 and BF series capitalize being able to being smarter, but still rewards being good at the gun game as well. Call of Duty strongly emphasizes the gun reflex game however which is why it is constantly branded as an arcade shooter; to which most arcade games are what it is, a reflex game. Now if you asked me where planetside 2 is, it should be in the tactical field, the tools are there, as are the means and execution but the way players are currently forcing it to play nearly punishes being smarter as being too time costly and time is the only real resource in that game. Stupid and large numbers pays off entirely too much over smart and efficient. Also if you want to talk about how much perfectly balanced PS2 is versus Dust 514, why does it take a light tank nearly 20 tank shells to die, but 4 infantry rockets or one aircraft mounted cannon to kill? Railguns in dust guts just about any other tank in 5 shots or less, blasters one heat cycle, missiles 5 or less direct hit vollies. Meanwhile, Counter-Strike master race looks at our silly evolution and thinks we're all a bunch of pussies. And they would be right.
Eris Ernaga Super Nerds 612	Posted - 2013.10.07 07:10:00 - [25] - Quote S Park Finner wrote: I think the DUST 514 ability to call in vehicles is a plus over the BF series. I've heard a lot of folks complaining they don't get a chance at the vehicles in BF. Another thing is being able to pretty much build your own class in DUST 514. It's a lot harder in BF. Since I can't shoot worth snot building up a support class is a lot more fun for me. On the the other hand, the commo-rose implementation in BF is a lot better than DUST 514. If I am seeing it right it tries to pick the most likely option for the thing you are aiming at when you bring up the wheel. It makes tagging a target or asking for a ride a lot easier. I was struck by how many of the problems the BF4 demo has that DUST 514 has/has-had -- flagging team members inconsistently, draw distance issues, tacky textures and the like. To the OPs point -- I do think it's easier to kill things BF4 but easier to avoid being killed in DUST 514 -- mostly because of the combination of tracking vs twitch and DUST 514's ability to fit for defence. Could agree with your entire post.
Rei Shepard Spectre II 658	Posted - 2013.10.07 07:14:00 - [26] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: All subjective. Low end skill of just about any game feels like a challenge, the question is what does it take to hit the ceiling. Star Craft 2 for example is bad on this as there is only one ladder to climb to the ceiling and its name is APM. Intellect or smartly deployed tactics rarely has a chance against someone with 100+ more APM. Where as Annihilation type strategy games are far better because you can over strategize your next 10 minutes because you can queue your entire plans at a time. While faster AMP would help out there when the plans fail recovery is not as hard or when a plan fails it is typically a death blow. Shooters are entirely different bag of nuts because most shooters rewards both reflexive or smart or both styles of play at the same time. Dust 514 and BF series capitalize being able to being smarter, but still rewards being good at the gun game as well. Call of Duty strongly emphasizes the gun reflex game however which is why it is constantly branded as an arcade shooter; to which most arcade games are what it is, a reflex game. Now if you asked me where planetside 2 is, it should be in the tactical field, the tools are there, as are the means and execution but the way players are currently forcing it to play nearly punishes being smarter as being too time costly and time is the only real resource in that game. Stupid and large numbers pays off entirely too much over smart and efficient. Also if you want to talk about how much perfectly balanced PS2 is versus Dust 514, why does it take a light tank nearly 20 tank shells to die, but 4 infantry rockets or one aircraft mounted cannon to kill? Railguns in dust guts just about any other tank in 5 shots or less, blasters one heat cycle, missiles 5 or less direct hit vollies. Meanwhile, Counter-Strike master race looks at our silly evolution and thinks we're all a bunch of pussies. And they would be right. Yeah where's my good old Tactical Ops & Counterstrike days where i joined a server and people cringed at Cobra getting in on their little backyard, lucky for you guys time is really unfriendly for aged FPS skills, even more so if you quit the FPS scene for 10 years (got bitten by the EverCrack virus back in 1999 and played mmo's the next 10 years), but man did we put in hours and hours to no end with no actual character progression at all, we did however got to progress and polish our own core skills to ungodly levels.
Eris Ernaga Super Nerds 612	Posted - 2013.10.07 07:15:00 - [27] - Quote Rei Shepard wrote: Eris Ernaga wrote: Just played the battlefield 4 beta it's not final work so it's not that great but I realized how easy Dust is. 0 recoil guns with overly powerful aim assist. In bf4 the recoil on the gun I am using is so insane I can't even hit anything unless I am close to the enemy I also don't feel aim assist is helping. So is Dust to easy? I would say yes. BF4 guns got recoil ? In a game where a few rounds are deadly ? No they don't. Not true depends on the weapons light machine guns are actually very weak ecspecially when comparing to their damage in BF3 but they have large clips and great suppression. Shotguns are deadly but have a slower reload assault rifles have a smaller clip a bit of recoil but are pretty deadly. In Dust it's odd to say these but I can just chop through people in less then 1 - 2 seconds. Think about it 60 bullets in a clip 72 in the Carthum and Balacs, almost 0 recoil, and very very strong AA it is just to easy it's point and click. Maybe I am just feeling the bad balancing of Dust, Dust really needs a better balancing system.
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 628	Posted - 2013.10.07 07:29:00 - [28] - Quote it really depends on the weapon you use. PLC is hit+kill or miss+die, even with high SP the weapon is just too binary and contains alot of bugs. if you can dominate with this weapon against good players you can call yourself good. with AR/ScR, you it point towards enemy, aim assists helps, pull trigger and he dies in 2 seconds even with zero SP placed into those weapons.
Jinx Rollin Commando Perkone Caldari State 23	Posted - 2013.10.07 07:32:00 - [29] - Quote J Lav wrote: Of course if you play the support class in BF4 Beta, you'll feel like everyone has a lot of health... That starter LMG is terrible. :P On the topic of aim assist, I'll be blunt, you'd have to be plain ignorant to not notice the aim assist in BF4. It's a faster pace, so you may get caught in the smoke and mirrors. Eh? I found that the only starter weapon I could kill with was the support LMG - get gud? Lol
Rei Shepard Spectre II 658	Posted - 2013.10.07 07:34:00 - [30] - Quote Quote: In Dust it's odd to say these but I can just chop through people in less then 1 - 2 seconds. Think about it 60 bullets in a clip 72 in the Carthum and Balacs, almost 0 recoil, and very very strong AA it is just to easy it's point and click. Maybe I am just feeling the bad balancing of Dust, Dust really needs a better balancing system. the coin goes both ways, if you have no recoil, the other guy isnt going to have any recoil either, if you can kill someone in 1 - 2 seconds thats ....well very slow most people i shoot at have at most 0.3 - 0.5 seconds alive time, most don't even get to react. On average i use 4-5 rounds per person for Medium frame dropsuits. And if you have issues with the AA, play like me and get a KBM or turn it off, noone is forcing you to use the AA, youve never played on PC it seems where most guys resort to a real aimbot @ 100% headshots with 360 degree snaps, the AA here is a crutch most DS3 guys can use.



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