this is a very possible theory. I never thought it works like that though, i always thought the total resist would subtract from the damage you take instead of multiply. I.E: 60% resist (armor hardner) would negate 60% of 1000 damage so we would take 400 damage.
40% resist (shield hardner) would negate 40% of the 1000 damage so we would take 600 damage. We really dont know how it works huh

Shield
Low HP ceiling, fast regen, hit-and-run.
More shields increases shield regen delay.
Once depleted, shields take a long time to kick back in

That's how resists work.

If I have 10% resists then I take 90% of the damage. So 1000 damage becomes 900.

If I have two skills each giving 10% resists then I take 0.9 * 0.9 = 0.81 = 81% of the damage. So 1000 damage becomes 810.

So those modules listed as 0.6 are giving 40% resists.

Unless CCP is doing something weird which never happens... right?

Why did they even set the speeds up like that? Gallente is most of the time faster than Caldari......

Make base vehicles susceptible. An unfitted vehicle is little more than a weak hull. Base HP does not make a vehicle powerful. Only through fitting can a vehicle become a true threat on the battlefield.

wich in and of itself makes no sense. Armor tanks are faster than weightless shields because armor plates make you slower.... okay. Now as a joke wel call the slower tank the "hit and run tank". Okay good job. Now lets make them both even, break common scene/good game mechanics and lore now

it does make sense if you understand the eve universe. in eve gallente are faster than caldari in almost every situation, if they are superior in speed in space, why cant they be on the ground?

it does make sense if you understand the eve universe. in eve gallente are faster than caldari in almost every situation, if they are superior in speed in space, why cant they be on the ground?

then they messed up the hit-and-run tanks with brawler
gallente should be hit-and-run while the
caldari should brawlers.
not the other way round.

because space has zero gravity, it does not matter that their armor is heavy and has more mass than the shield ships of caldari. But on planets weight does matter, and gallante tanks would weight many more tons over caldari tanks.
But who cares? This is a classic Exmaple of:
Real life < Lore < game mechanics
It does not fit the balance of the game for the weak "hit and run tank" (caldari) to be slower or even just as fast as the stronger, more effective brawler tank (gallante). Its horrendous for game balance, f*ck lore. Now their both inconsistant and out of wack

because space has zero gravity, it does not matter that their armor is heavy and has more mass than the shield ships of caldari. But on planets weight does matter, and gallante tanks would weight many more tons over caldari tanks.

tell that to CCP and watch them kill the gallente race because it doesn't follow earthly physics.

You might have missed this in the list, but armor plates are giving a speed penalty. That's where shield tanks get their speed advantage from.

Mass does matter in space. More mass would mean decreased acceleration.

Also the better speeds could be explained by the fact the Gal tank's engine isn't having to devote energy to powering the shields allowing it to put more power into moving the tank.

Anyways, going by EVE lore, wouldn't the Cal tank specialize in long range bombardments?
The Minmatar tank should be the hit-n-run tank.

So CCP is saying the base hull needs to be weaker and the fitting, the actual mods you throw on the tank, should be the part that makes the vehicle truly useful.
Thats why the base hulls were given an increase in HP (gunlogi increased from 1800 to 2600 and madrugar from 2000 to 4000) the fitting stats (CPU/PG) were reduced AND slots were taken away?? Gunlogi decreased from 5/2 to 3/2 and madrugar from 2/5 to 2/3.
Yeah. this really reflects what you guys are trying to do. good job
The last one that concerns me is "the goal is to make tanks fun" would this be fun to you guys? All the changes in general. Armor looks like its nerfed less harder

This is a seriously good point. They did not make the hulls weaker at all it's like the numbers they came up with are a big "F you" from some designer who didn't want to play along and they didn't notice the numbers don't match what they are promising.

Also while speed is the same on all tans I'd like to see shield tanks have less mass so afterburners give more of an effect on them.

i think you're wasting your time telling ccp that tanks are broken bc after a nerf every build, i think they're tryna say they dnt care

Mass does matter in space. More mass would mean decreased acceleration.

Also the better speeds could be explained by the fact the Gal tank's engine isn't having to devote energy to powering the shields allowing it to put more power into moving the tank.

Anyways, going by EVE lore, wouldn't the Cal tank specialize in long range bombardments?
The Minmatar tank should be the hit-n-run tank.

yeah your right. I should kill myself

need any help with that?

So CCP is saying the base hull needs to be weaker and the fitting, the actual mods you throw on the tank, should be the part that makes the vehicle truly useful.
Thats why the base hulls were given an increase in HP (gunlogi increased from 1800 to 2600 and madrugar from 2000 to 4000) the fitting stats (CPU/PG) were reduced AND slots were taken away?? Gunlogi decreased from 5/2 to 3/2 and madrugar from 2/5 to 2/3.
Yeah. this really reflects what you guys are trying to do. good job
Btw, adding this to the OP

i think you're wasting your time telling ccp that tanks are broken bc after a nerf every build, i think they're tryna say they dnt care

wich in and of itself makes no sense. Armor tanks are faster than weightless shields because armor plates make you slower.... okay. Now as a joke wel call the slower tank the "hit and run tank". Okay good job. Now lets make them both even, break common scene/good game mechanics and lore now

first, shield generators are heavy :)

and second caldari specialize in long range, their war doctrine is similar to the old german WW2 doctrine aka you are slow, durable, just sit back and fire your guns at range. you dont need speed to sit there and shoot stuff.

psss... hit and run are not meant to be durable thats why they hit and run but CCP think thats caldari should be that type of tank.

if you sit back at long range you dont need to run fast to hide ;P

isn't armor always better off than shield in dust ? has been for a long time dunno what tanker gave ccp this buthurt with their saggy but shame on you. see now we suffer and continue to suffer. ccp this is ludicrous ..these numbers are ludicrous...and by the time you bring out proto equivalence they're wont be any vehicle specs in dust anymore.

btw SHIELDS SHOULD NOT HAVE WEIGHT ...raising the hp on your shield tank should NOT effect its movement abilities.

You guys are getting exactly what you asked for.

You screamed and whined and cried for proto tanks... what did you expect them to do?

They took what they wanted a std (tierless) tank to be... and now they have to call that proto, and nerf it twice to give you the standard tank.

5 Primary Slots and 2 Secondary Slots - Proto
4 Primary Slots and 2 Secondary Slots - Advanced
3 Primary Slots and 2 Secondary Slots - Standard

Health and fitting reduction from Proto down to Standard? Check

Yep... this looks about right to me.

You got EXACTLY what you wanted!

yeah man! This way, our proto tanks after 1.6 will be EXACTLY what we have right now!! dude, oh mia gee were so lucky to be holding our future proto tanks right now, these are so good...
Btw, they ignored our suggestions about alternative ways to make a proto tank other than slot use. I made this post twice:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1351523#post1351523
so yeah as you can see in this thread, its EXACTLY what we wanted!! Good job CCP

oh come on... it was completely dellusional to expect they were gonna try to bring in passive bonuses to have to balance for tanks.

Plus... those kind of perks are reserved for new classifications of tanks and shouldn't be use for tier distinction (imo).

This way they can bring back the marauder, black ops, enforcer, destroyer etc etc HAVs which all have passive bonuses and their own distinctive flavors and, most importantly, SP costs.

This is why IWS was saying we shouldn't be asking for tiered tank frames... cause in the end this is the only thing you were gonna get... double nerfed tanks to fit the 'proto gear is only gear' mantra that CCP has been pushing for a while.

Its a F2P game afterall , how else are they going to drive booster sales if not by forcing you to get proto anything to be worthwhile?

Also... be careful comparing them to pre 1.7 tanks... if 1.7 comes with an AV nerf, then the tanks may feel really balanced and the proto 5/2 variants could be wicked with the new modules).

Yes im aware that they can reduce some numbers of the AV but it would not be reasonable to assume that proto AV will suddenly stop anhialting standard tanks. If anything, it would horribly break the balance of the game if standard tanks can stand up to proto AV. No matter what happens to the AV in 1.7, our standard tanks will be crushed by proto AV like they are being today, and all of the past 8 months.
But that is the only way to make proto tanks, it is clear by what their doing now. Look at it, we are litterally driving our own future proto tanks. This gunlogi with 5 highs and 2 lows that gets blown up by 4 rounds of proto forges is my future proto tank. Today my tank is standard, and next year this peice of poop is going to be the very BEST shield tank available in dust?
No the only way to make a proto tank is how i described, you and IWS were right you can not create a proot tank the traditional way and use slots. The only way is to use other bonus, unorthodoxwas i described. But i geuss we wont have it because were doing the slot way.
When they respec us, there will be less than 50 tankers in the entire game remaining. I promise

If these changes come with a AV DPS output reduction then they could definitely be balanced. Now... balancing tank v tank? Yes I totally agree with the points in your other thread... shield tank vs armor tank shoulds poorly balanced atm.

Also... a 5/2 tank in 1.6 will not be a 5/2 tank in 1.7... apples to oranges. Whole new module layout. They will be similar but sounds like the numbers will be quite different.. that honestly may require play testing to really make right.

But yes.. 1.6 AV vs 1.7 tanks? No brainer... but what happens if they reduced AV DPS output by 40%? How would tanks fare then?

it doesent matter what they do to Advanced level AV weapons, who even chooses to use their adv forge/swarms over their proto versions anyways? People are nearing on 30mill SP now everyone has profficentcy 5 forge/swarms with double/triple damage mods. Who cares about ADV level AV? Everyone runs proto. It will only be encouraged if advanced level AV gets a 40% damage reduction but proto? Nah. If they continue their trend, if CCP continues the patteren theyve been doing these past 8 months scence uprising release, they are going to buff AV again. Big if, they should be releasing their screwing up harder than what they did to the heavy post uprising. Remember i through a temper tantrum on these froums about it before it happened? This is sighn

I never said anything about tiered AV... I just said AV dps... so blanket dps reduction to all sources of AV by 40%.

Where are heat syncs, nanofibers, or skills to increase your damage?

Damage increase skill are where they are supposed to be - down the toilet.

so thats what caused the speed nerf!

woe to the caldari tankers that have to suffer ccp's lack of understanding of gravity shields have weight in dust first game ever to be this stupid

i think you're wasting your time telling ccp that tanks are broken bc after a nerf every build, i think they're tryna say they dnt care

shield generators are heavy