Then that is your problem. When you choose shields you choose an ideology, you guys are going to have to live with the hit and run choice. Now the reason most of you can't picture a hit and run HAV is because HAV's are slow and cumbersome, high HP but made to dish out damage. Shield tanks are going to be Weapon Platforms, basically glass cannons. The Gunnloggi supports Missile and Rail turrets best though, which are longer range, in essence keeping you farther from your enemies. So that's one minor thing (that you will no doubt dismiss) that shield tanks really have, they support long range weapons.

Also take note of vehicle skill changes. You can see that under Armor Composition that it gives a -10% to speed penalty of Armor plates. That right there is CCP hinting that Armor plates will have such noticeable mobility penalty that there will be a skill to lessen the penalty. CCP stated that armor is going to be your High HP sit down and shoot kind of vehicle. I don't think Madrugars will be able to keep up with Gunnloggis. Also they support blasters best so in order to maintain a high tank they're going to want to fit blasters so their lower CPU doesn't get too sliced for modules. Armor tanks will be buying into an ideology too, one that can be countered by mobility and range. Use that to your-future advantage.

The way i currently beat shield tank with armor is to ram into them at full speed, i either instapop them or take of anywhere from 1k to 3k shield

With the new stats that might still be possible but Wolfman is looking at collision damage

Also the armor doesnt have active reps no more, its all passive 145 a sec i think just like reppers on dropsuits so its consistantly reps

Take both a shield missile tank vs a armor blaster tank with same fits

The shield tank can put back nearly 2k with its booster, that would be about 15secs for armor

At each optimals missiles can fire 1st and waste a full clip, but 7.5 reload, blaster is 6, armor can close down but with reload a possiblity it could be wasted

Tanks vs tank its more tactics this time around espc with the limits on everything, thats not including AV getting involved

We need hands on but missiles could be back

I would assume that the armor tank will be slower because fitting and armor tank slows the actual tank....just saying

In their new update on how their ruining our vehicles somehow even harder than they have done, they continue to claim that shield tanks are made to hit and run, and armor is made to stand and slug it out. In this endevor, both tanks are given a speed reduction from their current state and are now the same speed. So how is the cute little shield tank that could deal with the big bad armor tank?

Well, they dont. If the shield tank pushes head on he cant compete with the superior galante active resist and dies. But if the shield tank rolls up behind the armor tank and shoots at him then runs away, the armor tank chases him down and kills him. So.... how does the shield tank beat it??

Missiles look promising, they are certainly terrorfiing beyond a reasonable doubt, expesically to an armor tank. It can fire 4-6 missiles a second and the proto ones do 500 damage each. Thats insaine! plus a clip of 12 but with 2 hardners and a heavy rep the armor tanks will eat it no promblem. Then the shield tank has to reload and the armor tank will easily close the distance in 10 seconds and kill him.

Blasters? duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh

Rails? Maby once but its an anti tank weapon. If the armor tanker is using cover it will be impossible. And if you do kill the armor tanker than hed come out with a railgun and murder you.

So... what hope will a shield tank have?

Nice try bojo, but you yourself have twisted your facts and dismissed things. Prepare to be dismantled because there is no hope for the gunlogi, i wouldent be saying this if it wasent true.
Firstly you said shield tanks have long range rails going for them. This is not ture, currently, today it is because shield tanks can throw damage mods on their low slots and only sacrifice one high slot for an active heat sink. Today, armor tanks can only fit the active heat sink in their high slot because they need their lows to be an armor tank. So yes, by todays standards you are correct but the damage mods are now high slots, and the active heat sink is staying a high as well. This means that shield tanks will only have one shield modual to effectively hunt armor tanks with. No rep? no resist? no extender? wich one gos? None of it for armor tanks! they can retain all of their tanking ability and fit the damage mods and heat sinks, so it is actually them who are more adept at long range. No madrugar will loose to a gunlogi in a rail fight, ever.
And in a blaster fight the armor tank can throw fuel injectors on its high slots to pace over the gunlogi. If the maddy wants to be faster than the hit and run tank, than it only sacrifices a high slot, it is now hit and run, tanking AND powerful. If a gunlogi throws on a fuel injector it becomes less tanky and killy.
So no. The gunnlogi can not preform hit and run or win at long range

Look at Shield Boosters. Heavy Shield booster looks like it reps 1950 shields in one second then the natural shield regen of 168 Shields per second can take over. And looking at Shield Hardeners, it looks like they will negate 60% Damage while an armor hardener only negates 40. Although it has a shorter active duration, that plays into the hit and run ideology.

I also said that CCP is most likely going to put a severe mobility penalty to armor, so bad that there is a skill there to lessen the load. So what if a maddy can outrun a gunnloggi now, it probably won't be able tomorrow (as in when these changes apply). The Gunnlogi looks like a kickass regnerative set up, so you can quickly regen what little HP you shield tankers will have and get right back out there.


Even with a Comp. Armor repper a Madrugar won't be able to regenerate the same amount of armor as a Gunnlogi can regenerate the same amount of shields. Yes shields will have a Delay but really that sort of needed to happen, so shields could have a much better regen rate.

Also just at a glance, a basic Large Railgun and Damage Amp on a Maddy uses 1/2 of it's available CPU. It could fit a Comp Armor hardener but then it's tough choices between reps or plates.

no matter how bad the penalty will be its the speed booster will solve the promblem so no matter what they can still be better hit and run tanks then the gunlogis. Its great that you found the confirmation that small arms fire wont impair a tanks ability to naturally regen itself, srly that was needed. But it wont be regening in a tank battle, the tanks will be doing enough damage to offset the regen. Admitively yes the shield booster is pretty sexy but we dont know who has the better resist set up, i put it on one of my threads still awaiting for CCP to give us a clear answer. If the shield hardner is indeed the 60% resist one then it can be kinda balanced, they wont be able to hit and run if the armor tank decides he doesent want to be slow but may be able to stand his ground in a brawl. Maby. doubt it, armor tanks have always been beating shields in brawls

As for fitting, there are skills that reduce CPU and PG fitting cost by 25% total so its possible

This is counting no resist though, or the 1200 shields of the madrugar OR the damage mods on its high slots OR the shield rep the armor tank has in addition to its armor rep, your counter argument left out 2 of its high slots. Not to mention the active resist of the armor tank is 60% with perma reps. Damage modded maddy with shield extender/rep with perma rep with 60% resist with plate will beat a missile gunny with 3 shield mods any day, like they do now

Nice try bojo, but you yourself have twisted your facts and dismissed things. Prepare to be dismantled because there is no hope for the gunlogi, i wouldent be saying this if it wasent true.
Firstly you said shield tanks have long range rails going for them. This is not ture, currently, today it is because shield tanks can throw damage mods on their low slots and only sacrifice one high slot for an active heat sink. Today, armor tanks can only fit the active heat sink in their high slot because they need their lows to be an armor tank. So yes, by todays standards you are correct but the damage mods are now high slots, and the active heat sink is staying a high as well. This means that shield tanks will only have one shield modual to effectively hunt armor tanks with. No rep? no resist? no extender? wich one gos? None of it for armor tanks! they can retain all of their tanking ability and fit the damage mods and heat sinks, so it is actually them who are more adept at long range. No madrugar will loose to a gunlogi in a rail fight, ever.
And in a blaster fight the armor tank can throw fuel injectors on its high slots to pace over the gunlogi. If the maddy wants to be faster than the hit and run tank, than it only sacrifices a high slot, it is now hit and run, tanking AND powerful. If a gunlogi throws on a fuel injector it becomes less tanky and killy.
So no. The gunnlogi can not preform hit and run or win at long range

I would assume that the armor tank will be slower because fitting and armor tank slows the actual tank....just saying

the base speed of both havs will still be similar and shields slow shield vehilces down just as much as armor does currently ..i see no mention of changing this..while it makes no sense ccp think shields should have weight. with gallente able to use active propulsion without sacrificing tanking ability their speed will trump the so called hit and run caldari tanks..AS THEY DO CURRENTLY ..also as far as i am aware minmatar are supposed to be speedy and caldari are supposed to be SHIELD TANKED they are supposed to be the strongest of the shield tanked vehicles..and they're survivability isnt supposed to depend on speed to begin with.by eve standards this game makes no sense. by dust standards it still makes no sense..

even assuming ccp was never going to give us amarian tanks or minmatar..what we have currently is a hit and run armor tank and a sit and hide long range expensive coffin.

...they are going so far off what caldari are meant to be it makes me wonder if they even plan on giving us the other racial variants and this ..vehicle change in 1.7 will only further the gap between the two races of vehicles.

ccp why do you hate the caldari? it is obviously inferior to the gallente in every way..and these changes wont fix that. you may balance stnd tanks vs stnd av but ..the gallente tanks will still trump the caldari.and proto av will still insta pop all..do you really think people will stay around as vehicle specs for another year? (time frame pulled from the rate at which you update dust)

ps. note i say update dust not BALANCE OR IMPROVE