DUST Search - Aren't respecs just fancy ways to ask for more SP?

Ivan Avogadro wrote:

Allowing you to move your SP around doesn't give you more of it, and it doesn't make you more competent either. Assume a 6 mil SP player:

One day, Player goes into PRO logi suit, PRO drop uplink, PRO AR. He does some basic core work on armor and shields. Then he maybe goes ADV in scanners and hives, to round out his equip slots. All in all, the start of an okay Logi. Player plays this way for a day and hates it. Or plays this way for 3 months and gets bored. Whatever. Point is, he doesn't want to be a Logi anymore.

So, Player respecs. Gets all 6 mil SP back. Goes Heavy this time. Heavies can't use equip, so he keeps core skills but puts all that extra stuff into a sidearm and a LAV. Now he can't lay PRO Uplinks anymore. He can't revive teammates anymore, and he can't put out ammo anymore. But he can shoot down dropships from across the map.

The point being, the player is now in a different role. He's not filling both roles, he's filling one AT THE EXPENSE of the other. And in another 3 months, maybe he'll get bored again and want to try tanks this time.

Tack on an AURUM fee, like $5 per respec, and let players role what they want. CCP makes tons of money with this. Players are fluid without having to grind.

If Player wants to have situational suits at all times, like PRO Logi for support and PRO Heavy for AV, he still needs 12 mil+ SP. But even with respecs available, one guy is limited to one build per fight. What do you care if he changes builds in between fights? It's not like they mean anything in the long run.

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8213 Grade No.2 311	Posted - 2013.10.02 13:37:00 - [1] - Quote If you had more SP, you wouldn't want a respec, am I correct? The only thing I'd like to take SP back on is what I put into the Shotgun. But to revamp my whole character and want a complete do over to be little more effective seems a little ridiculous. I know one of the major arguments is Scout suites. How people stuffed millions into them, and then CCP turned around and changed them(i.e.- balanced them). But shouldn't you just want whatever you put into Scout/Light frames refunded? I think people would just take the respec and put it into whatever is OP at the time (which right now, is less & less), then complain when it gets balanced, and they'll want to dump into the next OP thing. I think the problem is, people didn't plan their SP for the longer term. When Uprising came out, I had a "do-over" and to be honest, I became a better player instantly because I knew exactly what to put my SP into to make myself the most effective. Had that respec NOT been issued, I'd probably be in a hole climbing a steep grade with no end in sight. But the Uprising respec was proper, because so much changed in the way of the game itself. Skills were added, taken away, changed, etc. But to cry respec for ONE Skill Branch not being worth it to you, in your eyes, seems a little much.
Banning Hammer Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 1557	Posted - 2013.10.02 13:41:00 - [2] - Quote If i get a Respec i'll probably end up doing exactly the same thing, specialize in every single weapon... i'm kitten tired of CCP nerfing every weapon that i spec into... call it... my Anti-nerfing strategy.
trraacx DUST University Ivy League 2	Posted - 2013.10.02 13:43:00 - [3] - Quote Allowing respecs would be a simple way to make the game more interesting. To be really competitive you pretty much need to be 4 or 5 on any place of the tree that matters to the skill you chose. Skilling up on something new pretty much means a few months of slogging along at something you are bored with to get the SP on something else. I don't understand the resistance to respecs. Some people seem to think this is a second life and not a game.
Kigurosaka Laaksonen DUST University Ivy League 16	Posted - 2013.10.02 13:44:00 - [4] - Quote You're incorrect. The amount of SP I have is irrelevant to my (not) wanting a respec. The ONLY factor in wanting a respec should be how much basic content CCP hasn't delivered. Currently CCP hasn't delivered quite a bit of basic content. No one gains or loses SP by respec'ing. If a player is able to get proto gear by putting all of his SP into something specific, that's fine. However, if that thing gets nerfed after all the basic content is available in the game, then that's not CCP's problem. To reiterate, addition of basic content is a good grounds for wanting a respec. Your proto stuff getting nerfed and you only being able to use militia anything else is your own problem.
Hexen Trickster Industrial removal service 83	Posted - 2013.10.02 14:07:00 - [5] - Quote I cry respec because im dedicated to something that (at the current time) sucks I also cry respec because there is a feature i want to be 100% invested in but i cant because its not in the game at the moment (Heavy Assult Aircraft where art thou) or race im dedicated to ( amarrian gold plated laser of death tank ) I cry respec because i dont want to spend another 8 months getting sp for something that was omitted from the game due to time constraints "But hexen tier 3 battlecruisers didnt need a respec" Those are a tad different they didnt release 2 of them on month and the rest a year later.
Cosgar ParagonX 5591	Posted - 2013.10.02 14:12:00 - [6] - Quote The real reason why people want respecs is because the skill tree isn't a skill tree at all. It's just series of linear SP sinks, littered with pointless suits that you'll probably never use and blank skills, only there to sponge up your hard earned SP. Fix the skill tree and nobody will ever want respecs.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6637	Posted - 2013.10.02 14:21:00 - [7] - Quote 10 million SP player respecs. Has 1 Billion SP Seems legit
Lightning xVx R 0 N 1 N 233	Posted - 2013.10.02 14:23:00 - [8] - Quote 8213 wrote: If you had more SP, you wouldn't want a respec, am I correct? The only thing I'd like to take SP back on is what I put into the Shotgun. But to revamp my whole character and want a complete do over to be little more effective seems a little ridiculous. I know one of the major arguments is Scout suites. How people stuffed millions into them, and then CCP turned around and changed them(i.e.- balanced them). But shouldn't you just want whatever you put into Scout/Light frames refunded? I think people would just take the respec and put it into whatever is OP at the time (which right now, is less & less), then complain when it gets balanced, and they'll want to dump into the next OP thing. I think the problem is, people didn't plan their SP for the longer term. When Uprising came out, I had a "do-over" and to be honest, I became a better player instantly because I knew exactly what to put my SP into to make myself the most effective. Had that respec NOT been issued, I'd probably be in a hole climbing a steep grade with no end in sight. But the Uprising respec was proper, because so much changed in the way of the game itself. Skills were added, taken away, changed, etc. But to cry respec for ONE Skill Branch not being worth it to you, in your eyes, seems a little much. I honestly would RESPEC right back into Scouts and Shotguns, it's who I am and my playstyle. The only thing I change is make it more "focused" for my role as opposed to branching on 1-3 other small things that don't effect me anymore. And I swear to god that the Sidearm CPU skill doesn't do ANYTHING.
Rogatien Merc Red Star. EoN. 1322	Posted - 2013.10.02 14:25:00 - [9] - Quote People who cry for RESPEC when something like a single weapon is changed are... challenged. But for something like vehicles where the entire line of skills is being redesigned (Veh Elec before gives 5% CPU ... after it only unlocks active scanners) then I think a REFUND of SP allocated to affected skills is warranted. Tweaking a few stats on Cal Logi, no. Removing ADS from the game, then yes refund the prereq dropship skill.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6637	Posted - 2013.10.02 14:27:00 - [10] - Quote Rogatien Merc wrote: Removing ADS from the game, then yes refund the prereq dropship skill. What if that pilot no longer wants to fly? What happens to all his vehicle module skills and turret skills? What happens to all of his assets?

Ivan Avogadro Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 627	Posted - 2013.10.02 14:47:00 - [11] - Quote Allowing you to move your SP around doesn't give you more of it, and it doesn't make you more competent either. Assume a 6 mil SP player: One day, Player goes into PRO logi suit, PRO drop uplink, PRO AR. He does some basic core work on armor and shields. Then he maybe goes ADV in scanners and hives, to round out his equip slots. All in all, the start of an okay Logi. Player plays this way for a day and hates it. Or plays this way for 3 months and gets bored. Whatever. Point is, he doesn't want to be a Logi anymore. So, Player respecs. Gets all 6 mil SP back. Goes Heavy this time. Heavies can't use equip, so he keeps core skills but puts all that extra stuff into a sidearm and a LAV. Now he can't lay PRO Uplinks anymore. He can't revive teammates anymore, and he can't put out ammo anymore. But he can shoot down dropships from across the map. The point being, the player is now in a different role. He's not filling both roles, he's filling one AT THE EXPENSE of the other. And in another 3 months, maybe he'll get bored again and want to try tanks this time. Tack on an AURUM fee, like $5 per respec, and let players role what they want. CCP makes tons of money with this. Players are fluid without having to grind. If Player wants to have situational suits at all times, like PRO Logi for support and PRO Heavy for AV, he still needs 12 mil+ SP. But even with respecs available, one guy is limited to one build per fight. What do you care if he changes builds in between fights? It's not like they mean anything in the long run.
PEW JACKSON s i n g u l a r i t y 60	Posted - 2013.10.02 14:50:00 - [12] - Quote I want a respec to further spec into things I enjoy and know are proved to work. I believe CCP is finished tinkering with the LR so I'd spec into Ammo cap, fitting, rapid reload instead of just the proficiency 5. I'd also max out SMG sharpshooter, proficiency, and ammo since rapid reload is borderline useless. Maybe I'll max light weapon op and sidearm op for the CPU reduction. I'd take the scattered SP I have and completely spec into my nerfed scouts and enjoy melting faces with my LR and popping heads with my SMG. I may even bust out my good ole scramblersand Novas for lolz. Other than taking the SP from things I no longer use or things that are utterly useless to me, (how useful is a Forge gun and HMG to a scout?) I'd spec right back into the things I do now with a little more effectiveness.
PEW JACKSON s i n g u l a r i t y 60	Posted - 2013.10.02 14:54:00 - [13] - Quote @ Ivan Avogadro You deserve a lifetime supply of bacon for that post
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 1658	Posted - 2013.10.02 15:38:00 - [14] - Quote 8213 wrote: If you had more SP, you wouldn't want a respec, am I correct? The only thing I'd like to take SP back on is what I put into the Shotgun. But to revamp my whole character and want a complete do over to be little more effective seems a little ridiculous. I know one of the major arguments is Scout suites. How people stuffed millions into them, and then CCP turned around and changed them(i.e.- balanced them). But shouldn't you just want whatever you put into Scout/Light frames refunded? I think people would just take the respec and put it into whatever is OP at the time (which right now, is less & less), then complain when it gets balanced, and they'll want to dump into the next OP thing. I think the problem is, people didn't plan their SP for the longer term. When Uprising came out, I had a "do-over" and to be honest, I became a better player instantly because I knew exactly what to put my SP into to make myself the most effective. Had that respec NOT been issued, I'd probably be in a hole climbing a steep grade with no end in sight. But the Uprising respec was proper, because so much changed in the way of the game itself. Skills were added, taken away, changed, etc. But to cry respec for ONE Skill Branch not being worth it to you, in your eyes, seems a little much. Many of us vets have the luxury of knowing enough about the game to make an informed choice on what we want. Many newer players probably spent anywhere up to 5million sp spreading themselves too thin trying things out. Even I have a couple of 100k wasted in the SCR and AR. Some kind of respec system would at least make the decision final for people.
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 603	Posted - 2013.10.02 15:42:00 - [15] - Quote 8213 wrote: If you had more SP, you wouldn't want a respec, am I correct? The only thing I'd like to take SP back on is what I put into the Shotgun. But to revamp my whole character and want a complete do over to be little more effective seems a little ridiculous. I know one of the major arguments is Scout suites. How people stuffed millions into them, and then CCP turned around and changed them(i.e.- balanced them). But shouldn't you just want whatever you put into Scout/Light frames refunded? I think people would just take the respec and put it into whatever is OP at the time (which right now, is less & less), then complain when it gets balanced, and they'll want to dump into the next OP thing. I think the problem is, people didn't plan their SP for the longer term. When Uprising came out, I had a "do-over" and to be honest, I became a better player instantly because I knew exactly what to put my SP into to make myself the most effective. Had that respec NOT been issued, I'd probably be in a hole climbing a steep grade with no end in sight. But the Uprising respec was proper, because so much changed in the way of the game itself. Skills were added, taken away, changed, etc. But to cry respec for ONE Skill Branch not being worth it to you, in your eyes, seems a little much. the answer is no. we are still in beta despite not having a beta flag. content is missing, gameplay is not polished, balance is not give and that is why everyone skills into AR, it is known as working and reliable in most situations. a respec is done to bring fresh air and speed up development process.
Kam Elto KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 80	Posted - 2013.10.02 15:54:00 - [16] - Quote make respecs available every 4 months at $10 a pop. this helps the new players that made SP mistakes, keeps the game fresh for vets who want to play other roles and brings in income for CCP. if not then drastically increase the weekly cap. the grind is just too much right now.
Xender17 Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 713	Posted - 2013.10.02 15:57:00 - [17] - Quote Not when you realized how wasted the sp you used is... I skilled into ADSes last night... I'm already regretting it. (Anything other that AR and FG)
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6648	Posted - 2013.10.02 16:13:00 - [18] - Quote Xender17 wrote: Not when you realized how wasted the sp you used is... I skilled into ADSes last night... I'm already regretting it. (Anything other that AR and FG) You never know, with how bad the new vehicle changes are looking, the FG is going to have be nerfed if vehicles want to survive, so you're just praying that CCP does a proper balance pass instead of trivializing yet another weapon with yet another knee jerk change. Only people against respecs are trying to lower our player base :/
Rogue Saint Science For Death The Shadow Eclipse 270	Posted - 2013.10.02 16:25:00 - [19] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Only people against respecs are trying to lower our player base :/ Oh really? I can tell you now, if we did have a respec we would lose more players because all the vets would take all those mis-placed skill points and dump them into what they know is pure win. We would then have even more OP players, that could have been countered before, completely dominating the game and causing more to leave. You are so blind if you can't see this. My scout char has probably 3m SP in "mis-placed" skills... I'm no dust vet, but I can say with certainty that if I got those mis-placed SP back I'd have a better scout build. I made the choices I have, I'll live with them, so should the rest of you.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6649	Posted - 2013.10.02 16:28:00 - [20] - Quote Rogue Saint wrote: You are so blind if you can't see this. My scout char has probably 3m SP in "mis-placed" skills... I'm no dust vet, but I can say with certainty that if I got those mis-placed SP back I'd have a better scout build. I made the choices I have, I'll live with them, so should the rest of you. I'm not the blind one if you think people with 15 million + SP don't already have the best builds in their chosen focus.

Rogue Saint Science For Death The Shadow Eclipse 270	Posted - 2013.10.02 16:33:00 - [21] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: I'm not the blind one if you think people with 15 million + SP don't already have the best builds in their chosen focus. I can guarantee of those 15M SP, a good portion will be in a tree they don't use now (e.g. Murder taxi?). Of course skill/fittings count for a lot, but SP makes that easier.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6649	Posted - 2013.10.02 16:35:00 - [22] - Quote Rogue Saint wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I'm not the blind one if you think people with 15 million + SP don't already have the best builds in their chosen focus. I can guarantee of those 15M SP, a good portion will be in a tree they don't use now (e.g. Murder taxi?). And how people don't look at that and see a flaw in the skill system is beyond me. What good are skill points that you have no interest in using? And before you FOTM lapdogs hop in here and yell that people only grow bored because they abused imbalances, get a life. People get bored and change their mind, playstyles evolve, players adapt. Skill points do not adapt. They are static and useless if you ever decide to change your mind. Believe it or not, DUST is not real life, and it is also nothing but a vague shadow of EVE. When you start removing 10 entire vehicles from the game for unknown amounts of time, drastically altering the stats and function of the remaining vehicles, while leaving AV alone (though likely these will be nerfed as well) you are in BETA, and your choices cannot have weight when they are being changed and made for you by CCP.
calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 1055	Posted - 2013.10.02 16:35:00 - [23] - Quote correct OP. as I have more sp I don't care about respecs, those that don't cry for it a lot. for some reason alot of people cry like little babies in dust, fiends like them seem to have no patience.
Rogatien Merc Red Star. EoN. 1330	Posted - 2013.10.02 16:37:00 - [24] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Rogue Saint wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I'm not the blind one if you think people with 15 million + SP don't already have the best builds in their chosen focus. I can guarantee of those 15M SP, a good portion will be in a tree they don't use now (e.g. Murder taxi?). And how people don't look at that and see a flaw in the skill system is beyond me. What good are skill points that you have no interest in using? And before you FOTM lapdogs hop in here and yell that people only grow bored because they abused imbalances, get a life. People get bored and change their mind, playstyles evolve, players adapt. Skill points do not adapt. They are static and useless if you ever decide to change your mind. Believe it or not, DUST is not real life, and it is also nothing but a vague shadow of EVE. Actually what you described is very similar to real life. College degree in basket weaving just ain't helping me write the great american novel that i want to be my life's work this week. and it didn't do **** for my goal of designing a competitor for Google last week. :-/
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6649	Posted - 2013.10.02 16:37:00 - [25] - Quote calisk galern wrote: fiends like them seem to have no patience. Because a year and half of dedicated play and testing indicates a lack of patience.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 6649	Posted - 2013.10.02 16:38:00 - [26] - Quote Rogatien Merc wrote: Actually what you described is very similar to real life. College degree in basket weaving just ain't helping me write the great american novel that i want to be my life's work this week. and it didn't do **** for my goal of designing a competitor for Google last week. :-/ Cool, you let me know when you go to college for Engineering, and reality removes Engineering from existence. Let me know how that goes
Rogue Saint Science For Death The Shadow Eclipse 270	Posted - 2013.10.02 16:46:00 - [27] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: And how people don't look at that and see a flaw in the skill system is beyond me. The skill system isn't flawed, you state the counter argument below: DUST Fiend wrote: People get bored and change their mind, playstyles evolve, players adapt. I don't fly mining vessels in EvE any more, I don't see that has wasted training time! DUST Fiend wrote: What good are skill points that you have no interest in using? And before you FOTM lapdogs hop in here and yell that people only grow bored because they abused imbalances, get a life. People get bored and change their mind, playstyles evolve, players adapt. Skill points do not adapt. They are static and useless if you ever decide to change your mind. So, you skill into something, you get bored of it, demand a respec, get your wish, respec into something you want, get bored with that then what? Oh, then CCP release jet fighters that are part of the tree you QQ'd for a respec for so what? You QQ for a respec again? DUST Fiend wrote: Believe it or not, DUST is not real life, and it is also nothing but a vague shadow of EVE. Odd comment, clearly some deep issues going on there. DUST Fiend wrote: When you start removing 10 entire vehicles from the game for unknown amounts of time, drastically altering the stats and function of the remaining vehicles, while leaving AV alone (though likely these will be nerfed as well) you are in BETA, and your choices cannot have weight when they are being changed and made for you by CCP. The game will always change, and to go back to your EvE analog, the entire ship inventory has/is being re-worked/balanced. This will be the same for dust, just get used to it and grind.
Jinx Rollin Commando Perkone Caldari State 22	Posted - 2013.10.02 17:33:00 - [28] - Quote My main has 27 mil SP - I have 3 varieties of proto suits available to me, 3 proto light weapons, 2 proto sidearms, proto nades, and 1 proto heavy weapon + maxed core skills. I don't use any of the proto suits I'm skilled into since 1.4 - cal logi/mini assault/heavy I run around with an Assault starter fit, exile ar, toxin smg, militia nades, nanohive and 3 armour plates - I have 700+ ehp and i cost 20x less isk than my proto fits and i have just as much survivability (fyi I have over 50,000 kills and a 4+kdr) If I had a full respec today I wouldn't even bother speccing back into proto suits as they are trash at the moment TBH
8213 Grade No.2 312	Posted - 2013.10.02 17:39:00 - [29] - Quote Ivan Avogadro wrote: Allowing you to move your SP around doesn't give you more of it, and it doesn't make you more competent either. Assume a 6 mil SP player: One day, Player goes into PRO logi suit, PRO drop uplink, PRO AR. He does some basic core work on armor and shields. Then he maybe goes ADV in scanners and hives, to round out his equip slots. All in all, the start of an okay Logi. Player plays this way for a day and hates it. Or plays this way for 3 months and gets bored. Whatever. Point is, he doesn't want to be a Logi anymore. So, Player respecs. Gets all 6 mil SP back. Goes Heavy this time. Heavies can't use equip, so he keeps core skills but puts all that extra stuff into a sidearm and a LAV. Now he can't lay PRO Uplinks anymore. He can't revive teammates anymore, and he can't put out ammo anymore. But he can shoot down dropships from across the map. The point being, the player is now in a different role. He's not filling both roles, he's filling one AT THE EXPENSE of the other. And in another 3 months, maybe he'll get bored again and want to try tanks this time. Tack on an AURUM fee, like $5 per respec, and let players role what they want. CCP makes tons of money with this. Players are fluid without having to grind. If Player wants to have situational suits at all times, like PRO Logi for support and PRO Heavy for AV, he still needs 12 mil+ SP. But even with respecs available, one guy is limited to one build per fight. What do you care if he changes builds in between fights? It's not like they mean anything in the long run.
8213 Grade No.2 312	Posted - 2013.10.02 17:39:00 - [30] - Quote Okay... I just worte a lengthy response, hit post and it all disappeared... Should I be surprised CCP?

Bethhy Ancient Exiles 152	Posted - 2013.10.02 18:08:00 - [31] - Quote trraacx wrote: Allowing respecs would be a simple way to make the game more interesting. To be really competitive you pretty much need to be 4 or 5 on any place of the tree that matters to the skill you chose. Skilling up on something new pretty much means a few months of slogging along at something you are bored with to get the SP on something else. I don't understand the resistance to respecs. Some people seem to think this is a second life and not a game. Aim assist made this an equipment and SP based game... and took away from player skill. That's another issue. Bethhy wrote: Respec's are stupid... I Won't say that I will not re-perfect skills for the current times if they are offered... but that really changes the game drastically... Respec's will only hurt new players more... and benefit high skill point characters to stupid amounts... We have done this and that is what happened... not to say we didn't like it ;) If skill multiplyer's are tweaked or how the hierarchy works? CCP is always good at Reimbursing those skill point's so players can re allocate... But nothing more then that should ever be offered... It's game breaking... and all of you that can't see you are selfish.
Tallen Ellecon KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 759	Posted - 2013.10.02 18:21:00 - [32] - Quote Ivan Avogadro wrote: Allowing you to move your SP around doesn't give you more of it, and it doesn't make you more competent either. Assume a 6 mil SP player: One day, Player goes into PRO logi suit, PRO drop uplink, PRO AR. He does some basic core work on armor and shields. Then he maybe goes ADV in scanners and hives, to round out his equip slots. All in all, the start of an okay Logi. Player plays this way for a day and hates it. Or plays this way for 3 months and gets bored. Whatever. Point is, he doesn't want to be a Logi anymore. So, Player respecs. Gets all 6 mil SP back. Goes Heavy this time. Heavies can't use equip, so he keeps core skills but puts all that extra stuff into a sidearm and a LAV. Now he can't lay PRO Uplinks anymore. He can't revive teammates anymore, and he can't put out ammo anymore. But he can shoot down dropships from across the map. The point being, the player is now in a different role. He's not filling both roles, he's filling one AT THE EXPENSE of the other. And in another 3 months, maybe he'll get bored again and want to try tanks this time. Tack on an AURUM fee, like $5 per respec, and let players role what they want. CCP makes tons of money with this. Players are fluid without having to grind. If Player wants to have situational suits at all times, like PRO Logi for support and PRO Heavy for AV, he still needs 12 mil+ SP. But even with respecs available, one guy is limited to one build per fight. What do you care if he changes builds in between fights? It's not like they mean anything in the long run. If you want to try out new things what is wrong with running standard? I invest in core skills fully, I have only one suit fully specced and two weapons, for everything else I can run standard just fine. If you need everything to be proto to be viable with something new, then you probably shouldn't be running with it.


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