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Himiko Kuronaga
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
1669
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Posted - 2013.09.29 18:38:00 -
[31] - Quote
We don't need CPM members who chat with the community every day, we just need CPM members who actually play the same damn game as the rest of us.
If they can do that much, they know which issues actually need to be fixed.
Talking with lesser players isn't going to solve a lot of problems. It just gets a lot of really dumb suggestions put on the table. |
Lightning xVx
R 0 N 1 N
213
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Posted - 2013.09.29 18:39:00 -
[32] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Crash Monster wrote:Bunch of idiots thinking the CPM is there to hold their hands and make everything ok. I am still waiting to get dragged around a bit by the community and get my nosed shoved into some waste pile on issues I might have missed and someone yelling bad wolf. Anyways Nomination Process I would still like to hear about from the community. I was wondering how many seats should the CPM have? current roster is 6 seats should more be added?
Shotty Go Bang on behalf of scouts/stealth has my vote. |
Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
1499
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Posted - 2013.09.29 18:44:00 -
[33] - Quote
Well, if I put on my pessimist hat we're just going to get CEO's of larger corporations put in place. These are a group of folks that can get people to nominate them and vote for them.
Frankly, I worry that we have some group think going on when it comes to "what an FPS should be" and "it's a great idea to drive away the new players so that we end up with good ones" when that isn't going to grow the game. Of course players will have to toughen up -- but it doesn't mean they need a trial by fire before they figure out which end is up. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
9065
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Posted - 2013.09.29 18:45:00 -
[34] - Quote
Lightning xVx wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Crash Monster wrote:Bunch of idiots thinking the CPM is there to hold their hands and make everything ok. I am still waiting to get dragged around a bit by the community and get my nosed shoved into some waste pile on issues I might have missed and someone yelling bad wolf. Anyways Nomination Process I would still like to hear about from the community. I was wondering how many seats should the CPM have? current roster is 6 seats should more be added? Shotty Go Bang on behalf of scouts/stealth has my vote.
CCP Wolfman mentioned about shotty and knife hit detection improvements in a post last night.
His team are still cooking some scout love but no details or numbers yet so they're still probably exploring possibilities.
I mentioned scout issues since 1.3 I believe. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
9066
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Posted - 2013.09.29 18:49:00 -
[35] - Quote
Crash Monster wrote:Django Quik wrote:We've had similar suggestions for nominations before but I vociferously reject the idea of specific specialists being on the CPM for the purpose or representing a narrow band of players. At worst this would only create a group of highly partisan people on the CPM all arguing their own corner and not taking into consideration the views of other roles played in the game. At best it would give us a group of people where each could only be at all useful for talking about 10% of issues because they have no knowledge of anything but their own speciality.
What we need on the CPM are people who are good communicators, impartial analysts and mediators. Most importantly we need people who will listen to the playerbase and investigate to find all sides of all issues raised to them, so that they can give CCP the clearest representation of the playerbase that they can. I don't know... if the people who get on the panel take their position seriously then you'd have discussions concerning how doing one thing may impact another group for which the proposing party does not have any background. The people we need on the panel can have the qualities you suggest and still have a specialization for which they are most knowledgeable. If the people we get on the panel don't take their role seriously, to represent the community for the greater good of the game, then it really won't matter how it is structured.
Well squad leaders can take their role seriously, as could a boot camp sargent as well and those roles are not really tied to any one weapon or aspect of the game. Another discipline I see popping up and its probably going to be trending is the reluctance to go full proto and that is going to get exacerbated more and more as CCP does continue to swing the nerf hammer. There is also the players that are getting much older now and capping out a specialization and that they are going have to start spending their SP elsewhere. |
SgtDoughnut
Red Star Jr. EoN.
216
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Posted - 2013.09.29 18:50:00 -
[36] - Quote
Meh it does not matter how you do it, the leaders of the mega corps are going to take over for a little while, accomplish absolutely nothing because its just a popularity contest, everyone will say the CPM is a massive fail. In fact many are already saying that. Then after a year of recovery some smaller people who are actually intelligent instead of just being able to get masses of braindead minions to vote for them will get seats, CPM will be successful and then the megacorps will take over again because the prestige is back. Its the cycle of the csm after all. |
CommanderBolt
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
330
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Posted - 2013.09.29 18:55:00 -
[37] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I hope you guys realize that I am the most untypical council member to come along in a very long time. Most CSMs when elected disappear from the forums almost entirely. KenKaniff69 wrote:Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:They're doing just fine. In case you guys forget IWS passed the melee thing along a long time ago. Thus it got fixed. It seems a lot of you want the cpm to play mommy and daddy and that is not their job. What exactly is their job? Oh wait here it is. During my interview I asked additional duties the council would have, CCP Dolan was nice to answer basically saying I would basically on top of that post's outline would also be fulfilling the CSM's job for the Dust 514 community. I knew before I said yes that this was going to be the hardest term of all CPMs and felt I was up for the challenge. It was all fine and dandy until uprising 1.0 hit the fan that the game somehow got far worse than what the CPM enjoyed at the fanfest. The Charter is still being drafted and passed around the office. It's probably waiting on some big folk signatures because the actions within that charter WILL be expensive to the business. The White papers haven't passed even a first showable draft to the CPM yet. Let me then finally say any sort of election is going to likely require a patch into the game to make it work and right now that is not on the foreseeable burn logs of things to do but near end of CPM 0's term i can see it being possible. While the election system is very easy to understand and implement and most of it is rule policy such as qualified to vote or not; I am far far far more interested to hear what you guys come up with for a nomination process. How does a regular joe say he is up for election, then him saying to him getting to be on the ballot? How would that process handle out? Who nay or yeas his nominations? This is where I would have opt for some handholding until the CPM's tasks are made much clearer to the Dust 514 community, expectation setting for the people getting involved to be become members. That anyone running would need CCP approval after meeting minimal requirements which includes a cadre of things from having a passport and being legal over self. This is however my opinion and I already know the drawback is that voters would still feel disenfranchised because they're still ccp picked heads and it could remove any sense of 'freedom of the vote' and ultimately takes a lot of time out of CCPs own hands. CPM 0 originally had 200 candidates selected give or take which is very similar to CSM election nominees in which a large number can get filtered out due to failure in qualifications (not old enough, no passport usually). One has to wonder what merits each one had, I only know of a small handful of people who did turn down the CPM 0 positions and for the reasons I have cited before, They knew the CPM is not fun and games and was very serious business. But anyways come up with your own nomination process, pro and con it and debate others. I would like to see the path of least harm most good emerge.
I'll be honest and without using vulgarity, I along with lots of others disagree with you on lots of subjects. However YOU DO at least have a presence on the forums.
This DUST council thing is the biggest load of crap. To go along with a lacklustre game I suppose. So much talk, so many promises and so little action.
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CommanderBolt
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
330
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Posted - 2013.09.29 18:57:00 -
[38] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Big Popa Smurff wrote:+1 to Iron wolf saber! The only good CPM who is actually doing his job. Where are the other CPMs at? More appropriation should be showed to him for having to sift thew the crap that gets posted on these forums. They're still doing their job their own way which is very similar and more CSM like.
So they are being our reps, by not representing or communicating with us? Ha JOKE of a game. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
9067
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Posted - 2013.09.29 19:00:00 -
[39] - Quote
CommanderBolt wrote:
I'll be honest and without using vulgarity, I along with lots of others disagree with you on lots of subjects. However YOU DO at least have a presence on the forums.
This DUST council thing is the biggest load of crap. To go along with a lacklustre game I suppose. So much talk, so many promises and so little action.
It is really hard to see the action though, its there but I cannot share most of it. It's slow, its methodical, things have to be nearly planned months in advanced around here and that itself is a problem in its own right. Its terrible turn around time is very bad but it cannot be really helped and the studio is still evolving to adapt far better into making a game. Console environment makes this far more difficult, had we been first on pc we would be experiencing probably patches as fast and minorly as they can crank them out. Instead of oh say 1.3 launching with a bad bug and having to wait until 1.5 for it to get fixed because 1.4 locked and is off to QA for trimming.
CommanderBolt wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Big Popa Smurff wrote:+1 to Iron wolf saber! The only good CPM who is actually doing his job. Where are the other CPMs at? More appropriation should be showed to him for having to sift thew the crap that gets posted on these forums. They're still doing their job their own way which is very similar and more CSM like. So they are being our reps, by not representing or communicating with us? Ha JOKE of a game.
Sit down and talk with one of them. You'll be pleasantly surprised and no you're not by far the only person that ever talks to them by a long shot. |
SgtDoughnut
Red Star Jr. EoN.
216
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Posted - 2013.09.29 19:07:00 -
[40] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:CommanderBolt wrote:
I'll be honest and without using vulgarity, I along with lots of others disagree with you on lots of subjects. However YOU DO at least have a presence on the forums.
This DUST council thing is the biggest load of crap. To go along with a lacklustre game I suppose. So much talk, so many promises and so little action.
It is really hard to see the action though, its there but I cannot share most of it. It's slow, its methodical, things have to be nearly planned months in advanced around here and that itself is a problem in its own right. Its terrible turn around time is very bad but it cannot be really helped and the studio is still evolving to adapt far better into making a game. Console environment makes this far more difficult, had we been first on pc we would be experiencing probably patches as fast and minorly as they can crank them out. Instead of oh say 1.3 launching with a bad bug and having to wait until 1.5 for it to get fixed because 1.4 locked and is off to QA for trimming. CommanderBolt wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Big Popa Smurff wrote:+1 to Iron wolf saber! The only good CPM who is actually doing his job. Where are the other CPMs at? More appropriation should be showed to him for having to sift thew the crap that gets posted on these forums. They're still doing their job their own way which is very similar and more CSM like. So they are being our reps, by not representing or communicating with us? Ha JOKE of a game. Sit down and talk with one of them. You'll be pleasantly surprised and no you're not by far the only person that ever talks to them by a long shot. Id love to sit down and talk with quite a few of you, understand your processes and what you propose...no idea how to do that though. |
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Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
1501
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Posted - 2013.09.29 19:11:00 -
[41] - Quote
SgtDoughnut wrote:Meh it does not matter how you do it, the leaders of the mega corps are going to take over for a little while, accomplish absolutely nothing because its just a popularity contest, everyone will say the CPM is a massive fail. In fact many are already saying that. Then after a year of recovery some smaller people who are actually intelligent instead of just being able to get masses of braindead minions to vote for them will get seats, CPM will be successful and then the megacorps will take over again because the prestige is back. Its the cycle of the csm after all.
Sounds about right.
Part of the idea of trying to delineate partitions that people fit into is to help spread the amount of game "covered" by the people taking part.
While we need the qualities that Django mentioned I still think it's important that we try to find a way to get a decent spread of viewpoints at the same time. For example, I'm not sure veterans from a long tradition of FPS domination in various games are a good group for figuring out how to retain and grow a player base.
Basically, this is something I've said at work before, the more people I talk to (the more viewpoints I get input from) the better a solution we can end up with. Yes, sure, things can go wrong, but getting more eyes on the problem -- get a wider spread of views -- usually uncovers new ideas or risks that otherwise would be overlooked.
Hopefully when we are doing this by some voting scheme we don't end up with too homogeneous a group. Maybe CCP can look at the elected group and appoint 1 or 2 based on the feedback of the outgoing group? |
Django Quik
Dust2Dust. Top Men.
1571
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Posted - 2013.09.29 19:18:00 -
[42] - Quote
Nothing like giving a popular figure an official position to turn him into a figure of hate. Before he was made a CPM (even this fake pre-CPM0 beta set up thing) IWS was a hugely popular guy and would likely have gotten the position if a vote had been done in the first place. Now, because he has had this little white tag next to his name for so long, everything he has ever said is scrutinised to death by the community and his opinions ripped to shreds by people who disagree with him.
Point is, whoever is ever on the CPM and chooses to actually engage with the community, especially on these forums, will be a focus of both love and hate across the playerbase. Everyone has to realise that everyone has opinions, whether we agree or not. When CPM1 is eventually elected, there'll certainly be people on it that others disagree with and you'll have to wait a full year to get them replaced no matter what sh*t talk they give anyone on the forums.
IWS detractors take note: count yourselves lucky that there wasn't a CPM0 election because you'd be stuck with him until May if there had been. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
9069
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 19:20:00 -
[43] - Quote
SgtDoughnut wrote: I'd love to sit down and talk with quite a few of you, understand your processes and what you propose...no idea how to do that though.
Let me help you there then.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=1334
This forum section is the Council's chambers, you can use it to raise issues, and discuss about the CPM such as how the government is going to be setup and proposals on changes or suggestions for CPM events and the sorts or getting a gauge of what the CPM thinks but in no hurry. All I ask is be thoughtful, make your objective as unbiased as possible to seek answers and not means of attack. Understand not all CPMs can think like you but feel free to shop around for a CPM that can and I am sure you will get much more results there. I know Nova Knife has said things that made people mad in the past and people did not exactly understand his reasonings.
This avenue is a bit slow at times though and some threads have caused the CPM to take a step back to come up with a proper statement due to the touchy nature of the subject then a plan of action.
This means of communication should be treated formally as possible.
Less informal means can be found here.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=83435&find=unread these here have contact information Mine's out of date but my Skype name is
Iron Wolf // Tony Adkins
and Twitter is http://twitter.com/IronWolfSaber
Just note I will block you in a heartbeat if you try to stab me in those places, you're better off linking me threads I can go read or shooting the wind there. |
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