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[request] Dren Weapon stat inconsistencies, and upcoming Templar gear

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Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2518	Posted - 2013.09.28 09:45:00 - [1] - Quote So, almost two months ago now (Aug 2.) we heard in weekly feedback that Team Kong was looking into the stat discrepancies with Dren items (a $100 set). In particular, this regards what are otherwise STD items (Scrambler Pistol and Swarm Launcher) that have MLT-grade fittings. The weekly update post was here. The numerical difference here is pretty cut and dry between MLT and STD grade fittings, but it hasn't been mentioned since. You would think something like this could get shoved in a hotfix or update pretty easily. On the same note, the briefly experienced Templar gear in the Templar event had the same issue with its Scrambler Pistol - it had MLT-grade fitting. That's effectively a $150 BPO bundle there. Now, I'd like to believe the Templar stuff would be fixed as well before launching, but the Dren stuff released with Uprising basically - and despite the issue being brought up and acknowledged, it's still wrong as far as I know coming up on 5 months later. This is a fix. This is a stat correction. The in-game stats for a Scrambler Pistol (and a Swarm Launcher) are not tightly kept secrets known only to CEOs. Anyone can pull them up. It shouldn't have taken over two months to get attention on a stat discrepancy in the first place, and shouldn't take over two months to get it fixed after it's been recognized. Please fix the stats on these items in the $100 bundle you sell, and make sure the Templar gear has the correct (fixed) stats when it launched in a few weeks as well.
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 670	Posted - 2013.09.28 10:32:00 - [2] - Quote I want those bpo dropsuits so bad but I only have a ps3 and all the eve pilots want billions of isk.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2524	Posted - 2013.09.28 16:10:00 - [3] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: I want those bpo dropsuits so bad but I only have a ps3 and all the eve pilots want billions of isk. Billions?! Sheesh.
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 2359	Posted - 2013.09.28 16:34:00 - [4] - Quote I cannot wait to get my hands of them when they drop. TEMPLAR ME UP!
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2531	Posted - 2013.09.29 05:55:00 - [5] - Quote It should be as simple as adjusting a few values in a database to ensure that the weapon stats are consistent with STD weaponry. Having stats correct should be a goal regardless of what's going on, as it's a low effort fix. Having stats accurate on bundles that cost $100 or $150 is common sense as showing respect for customers that choose to support you.
Kelrie Nae'bre not in a corporation 156	Posted - 2013.09.30 02:58:00 - [6] - Quote I guess in that case it becomes P2GF (Pay to get fixes) as opposed to P2W (pay-to-win).
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2545	Posted - 2013.09.30 03:12:00 - [7] - Quote Kelrie Nae'bre wrote: I guess in that case it becomes P2GF (Pay to get fixes) as opposed to P2W (pay-to-win). Well, my primary point is that it's a simple fix either way, and it's the sort of thing that "SHOULD" be a no-brainer. However, the fact it's "paid" gear is worth mentioning either way, as it amounts to selling a faulty product (and you can't accuse them of "selling a faulty product" for the free elements of the game). There's a straightforward element of not wanting to get more "win" because you paid money, but having the stuff you paid for be what it's supposed to be. Sort of like if you paid for a booster and it didn't work for half of the time. You got "something", but it doesn't work as it should. You paid money for it, and the product should work as advertised. Really, it's silly that we should even be talking about the stats being wrong on Dren stuff this long after release because the discrepancy was obvious and caught quickly by players. I thought it bore repeating now because it's possibly about to be a repeat event with the Templar Scrambler Pistol's stats if they didn't fix those either. In both cases it's giving substandard service to people that bothered to support the game in the largest possible way. Should they get better service because they paid more? No. But the level of service they've received is below what you'd expect for any product.
I-Shayz-I Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 967	Posted - 2013.09.30 03:48:00 - [8] - Quote It's also obvious that the underground turrets are STILL underground for some reason, yet they haven't put out a hotfix for this either.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2548	Posted - 2013.09.30 04:34:00 - [9] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: It's also obvious that the underground turrets are STILL underground for some reason, yet they haven't put out a hotfix for this either. Not to diminish the importance of that silliness, but I'd imagine changing the values of 2-3 weapons to be consistent in a database would be quicker fix than the spawn position of the turret. Given access to their weapons database, any Dust forum user with Excel experience could administer this fitting fix in under 5 minutes. I don't know that the installation position would take a long time, but it's likely not as easy (and hasn't been present as long).
GHOSTLY ANNIHILATOR The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 499	Posted - 2013.09.30 06:12:00 - [10] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: It's also obvious that the underground turrets are STILL underground for some reason, yet they haven't put out a hotfix for this either. I find this very strange too because most of them are spawning from sky or usually already there

Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2554	Posted - 2013.09.30 09:56:00 - [11] - Quote I'd keep in mind that the weapons with incorrect stats in this situation account for HALF of the weapons in the Dren bundle. The Dren pack comes with: Swarm Launcher Assault Rifle Shotgun Scrambler pistol ..weapon-wise. That's 2/4 (Swarm Launcher and Scrambler Pistol) that were given MLT fitting. It's actually worse than that in some respects if people purchased them looking for STD weapons that had yet to be released. Prior to the release of the Dren pack, there were no options for STD-level Scrambler Pistols or Swarm Launchers BPO-wise. On the other hand, players had opportunities to get a BPO STD Shotgun elsewhere and multiple BPO Assault Rifles have been released. They broke/mismanaged some of the most desirable elements of the bundle.
Aikuchi Tomaru Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1000	Posted - 2013.09.30 11:22:00 - [12] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: I want those bpo dropsuits so bad but I only have a ps3 and all the eve pilots want billions of isk. They probably have problems selling this stuff. I mean: The only people who want that stuff ae Dusties. They want the ISK in Eve Online. People who play Eve Online AND play Dust 514 AND want these Items are most likely also people who buy the Collectors Edition. So well. There's probably not that much of a market there.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2558	Posted - 2013.09.30 14:01:00 - [13] - Quote ...and now they're about to take the Elite pack/Dren items off the market and they still haven't fixed them. Disgusting.
Viktor Hadah Jr Negative-Impact Cult of War 346	Posted - 2013.09.30 14:09:00 - [14] - Quote Please fix or at least make sure template is correct.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2564	Posted - 2013.09.30 16:25:00 - [15] - Quote That would be nice, yes.
Kelrie Nae'bre not in a corporation 156	Posted - 2013.10.01 00:40:00 - [16] - Quote In case they need a reminder: Dren Swarm Launcher 30 CPU, 5 PG Swarm Launcher 23 CPU, 3 PG Dren Swarm Description: A variant of the standard swarm launcher issued to Ishukone Watch's elite forces. Dren Scrambler Pistol 20 CPU, 5 PG Scrambler Pistol 11 CPU, 2 PG Dren Scrambler Description: A variant of the standard scrambler pistol issued to Ishukone Watch's elite forces. Wooo... logic.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2570	Posted - 2013.10.01 01:10:00 - [17] - Quote Kelrie Nae'bre wrote: In case they need a reminder: Dren Swarm Launcher 30 CPU, 5 PG Swarm Launcher 23 CPU, 3 PG Dren Swarm Description: A variant of the standard swarm launcher issued to Ishukone Watch's elite forces. Dren Scrambler Pistol 20 CPU, 5 PG Scrambler Pistol 11 CPU, 2 PG Dren Scrambler Description: A variant of the standard scrambler pistol issued to Ishukone Watch's elite forces. Wooo... logic. Perfect, you made it even easier for them to find the standard stats to go with the standard gear.
KING CHECKMATE TEAM SATISFACTION 1428	Posted - 2013.10.01 01:23:00 - [18] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: So, almost two months ago now (Aug 2.) we heard in weekly feedback that Team Kong was looking into the stat discrepancies with Dren items (a $100 set). In particular, this regards what are otherwise STD items (Scrambler Pistol and Swarm Launcher) that have MLT-grade fittings. The weekly update post was here. The numerical difference here is pretty cut and dry between MLT and STD grade fittings, but it hasn't been mentioned since. You would think something like this could get shoved in a hotfix or update pretty easily. On the same note, the briefly experienced Templar gear in the Templar event had the same issue with its Scrambler Pistol - it had MLT-grade fitting. That's effectively a $150 BPO bundle there. Now, I'd like to believe the Templar stuff would be fixed as well before launching, but the Dren stuff released with Uprising basically - and despite the issue being brought up and acknowledged, it's still wrong as far as I know coming up on 5 months later. This is a fix. This is a stat correction. The in-game stats for a Scrambler Pistol (and a Swarm Launcher) are not tightly kept secrets known only to CEOs. Anyone can pull them up. It shouldn't have taken over two months to get attention on a stat discrepancy in the first place, and shouldn't take over two months to get it fixed after it's been recognized. Please fix the stats on these items in the $100 bundle you sell, and make sure the Templar gear has the correct (fixed) stats when it launches in a few weeks as well. Where did you read about this Templar gear and do you know what they include? Sorry a little of topic questin i know.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2570	Posted - 2013.10.01 01:40:00 - [19] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Where did you read about this Templar gear and do you know what they include? Sorry a little of topic questin i know. It's fine. When the event happened, I queried the people in our corp about the items they had on the Templar characters. Lowratehitman made a video at the time as well, which made it pretty easy to look at the items as he went over the gear. It's all standard stuff for the most part, and just as advertised in the collector's edition: STD Heavy Amarr Sentinel STD Amarr Assault STD Amarr Logistics STD Laser Rifle STD Scrambler Rifle and... a Scrambler Pistol that says it's standard, but has MLT fitting (like the Dren one). This assuming they haven't fixed it of course. Though it would be odd if they fixed this pistol, but not the Dren that was out for several months. I guess it would be a "minor" victory if it was fixed, since they said they couldn't comment on unreleased items when it was brought up at the time. I'm not sure if I'm missing anything else. Basically, everything but the pistol was STD, and the pistol claimed to be STD but was not. Oh, there's that STD droplink BPO as well (that's already been released as a preorder bonus).
KING CHECKMATE TEAM SATISFACTION 1444	Posted - 2013.10.01 02:51:00 - [20] - Quote ah ok got it. So this Templar stuff was already given out. I thought they would be something like the next elite pack or something XD my bad. Ty for clarifying.

Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2581	Posted - 2013.10.01 04:55:00 - [21] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: ah ok got it. So this Templar stuff was already given out. I thought they would be something like the next elite pack or something XD my bad. Ty for clarifying. It was temporary for an event, but it was meant to be a "teaser" for the items in the Collector's Edition. So, having seen the items that will be released; I'm expressing my concern about them being properly fixed first. The Collector's Edition lands later this month, so you'll see (possibly) the people that bothered buying the Collector's Edition on the field in Templar stuff (possibly) after that. Since the Collector's edition is $150, it's sort of like a super-elite pack... though the focus is actually on the EVE materials.
Kelrie Nae'bre not in a corporation 157	Posted - 2013.10.01 09:40:00 - [22] - Quote Got to love those $100 mistakes.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2596	Posted - 2013.10.01 18:04:00 - [23] - Quote I would like to think, that compared to balance issues, hard to track bugs, and things that might involve the game engine in some way.... a fix that's just slotting a few numbers in a database would be a simple, straight-forward, and easy thing to go ahead and push into a patch/hotfix. Especially when it impacts a product that is sold...
Lucrezia LeGrand Delta Enterprise 71	Posted - 2013.10.01 18:26:00 - [24] - Quote I think it would have been cool if those who played as Templars were given a BPO of something as proof of the event. Btw, I was Templar Renegade 215. ^-^ Oh well. Guess I better save a billion ISK.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2605	Posted - 2013.10.02 09:45:00 - [25] - Quote I'm hoping faction stores or something like that might eventually have BPO gear. Or special faction gear you can buy with ISK. Either of those options is good, but if faction reward stores had optional AUR-gear that would suck. You earn your place in a faction, but you can only reap your rewards if you pay real money, and those rewards aren't permanent. Really, I dislike expendable AUR gear in general. If you're going to pay money for "virtual" items, they should be permanent. Anyhow, that's a tangent I guess. Since, as the topic suggests, the items we have paid for are not as advertised.
Kelrie Nae'bre not in a corporation 158	Posted - 2013.10.02 20:39:00 - [26] - Quote Only, like, three weeks till the Collector's Ed. launches. Let's hope the stats are right out of the box!
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2626	Posted - 2013.10.03 16:39:00 - [27] - Quote Kelrie Nae'bre wrote: Only, like, three weeks till the Collector's Ed. launches. Let's hope the stats are right out of the box! ...Let's see if we can get the Dren fixed before that.
Kelrie Nae'bre not in a corporation 158	Posted - 2013.10.04 11:11:00 - [28] - Quote When is that exactly?
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2639	Posted - 2013.10.04 17:03:00 - [29] - Quote Kelrie Nae'bre wrote: When is that exactly? Collector's ships out on the 24th of this month. I have no idea if it ships from Iceland, or how long it takes.
Magnus Amadeuss DUST University Ivy League 76	Posted - 2013.10.04 19:08:00 - [30] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: Kelrie Nae'bre wrote: When is that exactly? Collector's ships out on the 24th of this month. I have no idea if it ships from Iceland, or how long it takes. CCP wrote: We have two distribution centres to ship these beautiful boxes. All North American orders will be shipped from Atlanta, USA whilst European orders will be shipped from Nortorf, Germany. Delivery timings will vary depending on your location so you may have to wait a couple of days before it arrives but it WILL be worth the wait.

Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2642	Posted - 2013.10.04 22:24:00 - [31] - Quote Good to know! Thanks! Though this: "CCP Mystery Code" etc. Is a bit disappointing on my end as the Dust bonuses dried up from the original announcement, while EVE rewards have been updated several times with other additions. I doubt anything not yet revealed has any connection to Dust.
Kelrie Nae'bre not in a corporation 158	Posted - 2013.10.07 11:29:00 - [32] - Quote It's an "EVE Collector's Edition" not a Dust one I guess. Still, it would've been nice if some surprise bonuses had been announced for Dust as well.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2672	Posted - 2013.10.07 13:38:00 - [33] - Quote Kelrie Nae'bre wrote: It's an "EVE Collector's Edition" not a Dust one I guess. Still, it would've been nice if some surprise bonuses had been announced for Dust as well. I'd be pleased if we got a "suprise" Templar Scout BPO down the road.
Kelrie Nae'bre not in a corporation 169	Posted - 2013.10.08 11:15:00 - [34] - Quote Stealth fix in the patch today maybe?
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2686	Posted - 2013.10.08 11:40:00 - [35] - Quote Kelrie Nae'bre wrote: Stealth fix in the patch today maybe? Err... no. Dren Scrambler Pistol is still 20 CPU 5 PG. As an aside, same PG req as an ADV Scrambler, but with STD stats.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2693	Posted - 2013.10.09 11:49:00 - [36] - Quote I'd add that there's no fix, and there's are only two sources of BPOs now: Vet pack and Elite pack. You could say that half the packs have issues now (since the Dren weapons are wrong, and they're one of only two options), and that they've been wrong since release back in May.
Kelrie Nae'bre not in a corporation 172	Posted - 2013.10.09 16:58:00 - [37] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: I'd add that there's no fix, and there's are only two sources of BPOs now: Vet pack and Elite pack. You could say that half the packs have issues now (since the Dren weapons are wrong, and they're one of only two options), and that they've been wrong since release back in May. If it wasn't getting fixed in 5 months, I don't know why fewer BPOs would make them more likely to fix it now.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2693	Posted - 2013.10.09 17:12:00 - [38] - Quote Kelrie Nae'bre wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: I'd add that there's no fix, and there's are only two sources of BPOs now: Vet pack and Elite pack. You could say that half the packs have issues now (since the Dren weapons are wrong, and they're one of only two options), and that they've been wrong since release back in May. If it wasn't getting fixed in 5 months, I don't know why fewer BPOs would make them more likely to fix it now. The recruit SMG stats remain broken as well I believe (Described as improvement on MLT, has lower stats than MLT - herp-derp). I would think the fact that there are FEWER BPOs would make it more obvious that some of the few there are have incorrect stats. Kinda like if someone asked you "Where's Waldo" in a crowd of 30-40 people (I forget how many BPOs we had), that... well, ok that's not difficult. BUT, if they asked you to find Waldo in a "crowd" of like five people... it's a no-brainer.
Kelrie Nae'bre not in a corporation 172	Posted - 2013.10.10 12:49:00 - [39] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: Kelrie Nae'bre wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: I'd add that there's no fix, and there's are only two sources of BPOs now: Vet pack and Elite pack. You could say that half the packs have issues now (since the Dren weapons are wrong, and they're one of only two options), and that they've been wrong since release back in May. If it wasn't getting fixed in 5 months, I don't know why fewer BPOs would make them more likely to fix it now. The recruit SMG stats remain broken as well I believe (Described as improvement on MLT, has lower stats than MLT - herp-derp). I would think the fact that there are FEWER BPOs would make it more obvious that some of the few there are have incorrect stats. Kinda like if someone asked you "Where's Waldo" in a crowd of 30-40 people (I forget how many BPOs we had), that... well, ok that's not difficult. BUT, if they asked you to find Waldo in a "crowd" of like five people... it's a no-brainer. So, the most expensive BPOs have incorrect stats, but the gratis ones also have issues.
Vell0cet Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 421	Posted - 2013.10.10 14:42:00 - [40] - Quote I'm also hoping they make these fixes. I can't wait for my templar gear. I also agree that the surprise code should be good for a BPO Templar scout suit when they release Amar scouts.

Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2725	Posted - 2013.10.11 05:05:00 - [41] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: I'm also hoping they make these fixes. I can't wait for my templar gear. I also agree that the surprise code should be good for a BPO Templar scout suit when they release Amar scouts. They released a DEV Blog in EVE about the mystery code, they're making it like a season-pass sort of thing almost that gets people that have it stuff in the future as well, it included this note: Quote: This is just the beginning of what the Mystery Code will unlock. In the future, whenever we have big things happeningGÇönot just across the EVE Universe but across all CCP gamesGÇöyou will find a Mystery Code element to enjoy. About 2 weeks till the Templar stuff comes out. This issue is ultimately small compared to time-to-kill, balancing, etc. It's frustrating because of the many rendering/memory management/etc. issues that can be hard to track down... this one isn't like that. It's literally numbers in a database. It would take anyone with any database experience a few minutes to correct the numbers to go into a patch/hotfix, and yet the problem persists for half a year.... It's mind boggling. It's not the sort of thing you'd think you'd even need to post about because it's the most obvious, easy sort of thing to fix... and it's present on a $100 product.... that's like a full collector's edition of a retail game that comes with a bust and gadgets. In this case, it's just a few in-game items... AND THEY DON'T EVEN WORK AS ADVERTISED.
Kelrie Nae'bre not in a corporation 174	Posted - 2013.10.12 21:02:00 - [42] - Quote Also worth noting that this isn't really a Caveat Emptor sort of situation, as you don't post the stats for packs ahead of time - so we'd go by the text descriptions. Unless the message here is that we should assume you're lying or the items will be broken when we pay actual money, so we should stick to ISK...
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2748	Posted - 2013.10.14 13:07:00 - [43] - Quote Kelrie Nae'bre wrote: Also worth noting that this isn't really a Caveat Emptor sort of situation, as you don't post the stats for packs ahead of time - so we'd go by the text descriptions. Unless the message here is that we should assume you're lying or the items will be broken when we pay actual money, so we should stick to ISK... 10 more days till the Collector's stuff ships out!
Kelrie Nae'bre not in a corporation 176	Posted - 2013.10.15 16:38:00 - [44] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: Kelrie Nae'bre wrote: Also worth noting that this isn't really a Caveat Emptor sort of situation, as you don't post the stats for packs ahead of time - so we'd go by the text descriptions. Unless the message here is that we should assume you're lying or the items will be broken when we pay actual money, so we should stick to ISK... 10 more days till the Collector's stuff ships out! The Collector's with the possibly incorrect stats you mean?
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Kinsho Swords Caldari State 6	Posted - 2013.10.15 17:04:00 - [45] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: [quote=Kelrie Nae'bre]I guess in that case it becomes P2GF (Pay to get fixes) as opposed to P2W (pay-to-win). it amounts to selling a faulty product (and you can't accuse them of "selling a faulty product" for the free elements of the game). You paid money for it, and the product should work as advertised Are you kidding me??? That is faulty and even more so coming off of one hundred bucks. I was reading about three more bundles that they have coming out soon and people were writing , saying basically the same thing you just did about , how they pay for things and they are not like advertised. Bashing the system. Also talking about the suits that they were giving people who just reactivated their accounts and asking , " what do those who play everyday get for their faithfulness??? " I totally agree with that , but I can see that they want the previous players to experience the changes that they made ... but it's still kind of unfair ... not to sound like I'm crying. I'm glad I seen this because it makes me think about what I spend my money on even more. And the game is free to play yes but that's why they sell items. Try making a character that doesn't use boosters , buys the Aurum items or vehicles and drop suits because you don't have the skill set yet and see how much fun that would be and how long you would play with that character. Look at the reality .... IT'S NOT REALLY FREE. I appreciate you Dust 514 but I have to call it like I see it.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2774	Posted - 2013.10.16 14:44:00 - [46] - Quote That's the idea I guess. People need to be aware of the issues with the things they could be spending money on. That, or they could fix it...
Kelrie Nae'bre not in a corporation 177	Posted - 2013.10.17 16:03:00 - [47] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: That's the idea I guess. People need to be aware of the issues with the things they could be spending money on. That, or they could fix it... Crazy talk.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2788	Posted - 2013.10.18 03:50:00 - [48] - Quote Collector's Edition came, the TEMPLAR PISTOL'S STATS HAVE THE EXACT SAME PROBLEM. "Standard-issue", Meta "3", MLT friggin stats.
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 408	Posted - 2013.10.18 04:35:00 - [49] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: Collector's Edition came, the TEMPLAR PISTOL'S STATS HAVE THE EXACT SAME PROBLEM. "Standard-issue", Meta "3", MLT friggin stats. Are the rest OK?
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2790	Posted - 2013.10.18 06:40:00 - [50] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: Collector's Edition came, the TEMPLAR PISTOL'S STATS HAVE THE EXACT SAME PROBLEM. "Standard-issue", Meta "3", MLT friggin stats. Are the rest OK? Nothing changed from the Templar Manhunt, exact same stats. They got told the Templar Pistol had MILITIA stats back then, they had MONTHS to fix that.

Kelrie Nae'bre not in a corporation 178	Posted - 2013.10.18 15:45:00 - [51] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: SponkSponkSponk wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: Collector's Edition came, the TEMPLAR PISTOL'S STATS HAVE THE EXACT SAME PROBLEM. "Standard-issue", Meta "3", MLT friggin stats. Are the rest OK? Nothing changed from the Templar Manhunt, exact same stats. They got told the Templar Pistol had MILITIA stats back then, they had MONTHS to fix that.
Iskandar Zul Karnain Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 2003	Posted - 2013.10.18 16:40:00 - [52] - Quote Well that's pretty disappointing.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2793	Posted - 2013.10.18 16:48:00 - [53] - Quote Iskandar Zul Karnain wrote: Well that's pretty disappointing. If it makes you feel better, the Laser Rifle inexplicably requires 50 CPU instead of 53 (The normal req for a STD Laser Rifle), so they apparently broke something in favor of the player as well. I'm still annoyed, even though I should've expected it really.
Iskandar Zul Karnain Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 2004	Posted - 2013.10.18 17:40:00 - [54] - Quote I love my laser rifle. That makes me feel better. I hope they fix that pistol soon!
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2798	Posted - 2013.10.19 05:31:00 - [55] - Quote It would be ironic if they rushed to fix that.
Kelrie Nae'bre not in a corporation 179	Posted - 2013.10.20 04:19:00 - [56] - Quote I think we're past the point where "speed" is something we can attribute here.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2804	Posted - 2013.10.20 22:36:00 - [57] - Quote Kelrie Nae'bre wrote: I think we're past the point where "speed" is something we can attribute here. Maybe in 1.6.
Teeee Bone C0M8AT V3T3RANS 8	Posted - 2013.10.20 22:46:00 - [58] - Quote They gotta fix these stats. Drive's me nuts. I got bpo's that I never use because of this. Really the only part that really gets me is the scrambler pistol stats.. They require more cpu/pg than the smg's duh!!
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2809	Posted - 2013.10.21 17:13:00 - [59] - Quote The difference with the SMGs has always be interesting because it's a double-screw. The Scrambler STD has easier fittings than a STD SMG, but for some reason they both have the exact same inflated MLT fittings. The Dren Swarm Launcher is also irritating, mind you, but it's especially aggravating that they'd give a "Standard" pistol MLT stats... twice.
Kelrie Nae'bre not in a corporation 179	Posted - 2013.10.22 01:18:00 - [60] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: Kelrie Nae'bre wrote: I think we're past the point where "speed" is something we can attribute here. Maybe in 1.6. Hilarious.

Aqua-Regia MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN. 454	Posted - 2013.10.22 02:33:00 - [61] - Quote look like CCP don't give a flying rat ass anymore about BPO or fixing it.
Teeee Bone C0M8AT V3T3RANS 8	Posted - 2013.10.22 11:25:00 - [62] - Quote bump
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2821	Posted - 2013.10.22 20:30:00 - [63] - Quote Aqua-Regia wrote: look like CCP don't give a flying rat ass anymore about BPO or fixing it. Seems that way.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2825	Posted - 2013.10.23 09:14:00 - [64] - Quote Apparently if the colors are wrong in the W.A.R. kit, it gets hotfixed in 24 hours. Stats wrong on weapons since May? It can wait. Weapon stats? Unimportant. Color Schemes? Super important (except for the Burnscar which lost its color scheme when it went off market... funny that).
Kelrie Nae'bre not in a corporation 182	Posted - 2013.10.23 18:28:00 - [65] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: Apparently if the colors are wrong in the W.A.R. kit, it gets hotfixed in 24 hours. Stats wrong on weapons since May? It can wait. Weapon stats? Unimportant. Color Schemes? Super important (except for the Burnscar which lost its color scheme when it went off market... funny that). So they can do quick fixes on weapons, they have the technology... we've pointed out exactly what's wrong... they just choose not to, because... "screw you"? I guess.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2831	Posted - 2013.10.23 23:51:00 - [66] - Quote Kelrie Nae'bre wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: Apparently if the colors are wrong in the W.A.R. kit, it gets hotfixed in 24 hours. Stats wrong on weapons since May? It can wait. Weapon stats? Unimportant. Color Schemes? Super important (except for the Burnscar which lost its color scheme when it went off market... funny that). So they can do quick fixes on weapons, they have the technology... we've pointed out exactly what's wrong... they just choose not to, because... "screw you"? I guess. Malice as opposed to incompetence?
Kelrie Nae'bre not in a corporation 183	Posted - 2013.10.24 19:49:00 - [67] - Quote If you bought both for Dust, that's $250 spent towards Dust items that they put incorrect stats on. If company sells you a $250 product and seems to have no intent of correct a simple issue in the course of 5-6 months, then I don't think I would want to use their products anymore.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2842	Posted - 2013.10.25 09:18:00 - [68] - Quote I'd prefer not to think about the amount of money I've spent for a complete lack of basic bug-fixes.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2849	Posted - 2013.10.26 19:25:00 - [69] - Quote What's another day not playing, really?
Kelrie Nae'bre not in a corporation 184	Posted - 2013.10.27 06:33:00 - [70] - Quote When will the madness end?

Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2868	Posted - 2013.10.28 07:39:00 - [71] - Quote Kelrie Nae'bre wrote: When will the madness end? Not soon, or at least it doesn't seem like it.
Kelrie Nae'bre not in a corporation 184	Posted - 2013.10.28 18:40:00 - [72] - Quote The recruit SMG differences (slight improvement over MLT that actually has less damage than MLT making it the worst possible weapon in the entire game) were chalked up as "by design" in the weekly bug report.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2886	Posted - 2013.10.29 16:31:00 - [73] - Quote Maybe a stealth fix in 1.6...
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2887	Posted - 2013.10.30 06:18:00 - [74] - Quote Aqua-Regia wrote: look like CCP don't give a flying rat ass anymore about BPO or fixing it. Somewhat off-topic, but you're showing up as not in a corp at all, which I didn't think was possible.
Kelrie Nae'bre not in a corporation 185	Posted - 2013.10.31 00:43:00 - [75] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: Maybe a stealth fix in 1.6... 1.7 content-lock is around the corner according to Logicloop.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2892	Posted - 2013.10.31 10:51:00 - [76] - Quote Kelrie Nae'bre wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: Maybe a stealth fix in 1.6... 1.7 content-lock is around the corner according to Logicloop. Not sure if adjusting the numbers in a table qualifies as "content".
Orca Amsel Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 556	Posted - 2013.10.31 13:22:00 - [77] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: Aqua-Regia wrote: look like CCP don't give a flying rat ass anymore about BPO or fixing it. Somewhat off-topic, but you're showing up as not in a corp at all, which I didn't think was possible. In the setting tab of the forums there is an option to hide your corporation and alliance. I don't see a reason for this option though since you can easily find this information on eve gate and dustboard.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2912	Posted - 2013.10.31 22:42:00 - [78] - Quote They're retiring the Dren/Covenant sets, so... they will have sold something for half a year and then taken it off the market without ever fixing the stats. That's is SOME kind of incompetent there.
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 800	Posted - 2013.11.01 03:51:00 - [79] - Quote so, does the op not understand what 'variant' means? am I missing something? a militia weapon is a variant of a standard weapon...
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2913	Posted - 2013.11.01 14:15:00 - [80] - Quote low genius wrote: so, does the op not understand what 'variant' means? am I missing something? a militia weapon is a variant of a standard weapon... Let me run this logic train by you. The fact it says "variant" is not the significant part of the description. Every weapon has a "variations" tab that lists all the variants of that weapon-type. For a Scrambler Pistol, for example, you'd fine Militia, Staff Recruiter, Viziam, and Wolfman's on the variations tap. They're all friggin "variants". If you want to focus on that part - all that means is it's a scrambler pistol as opposed to a Coffee Maker. There are two places (aside from "stats", which would be the more obvious differences) where the weapon qualities/differences are made known: the description and the meta level. A Militia quality Scrambler will read as: A standard-issue scrambler pistol that is less efficient and bulkier than other variants. The militia "variant" sets itself apart by pointing out that is is less efficient and bulkier than other variants. That's the "Militia" difference. Less efficient & bulkier! It says so on the tin. It's also Meta level 0 to let you know you're at rock bottom. A Dren Pistol: A variant of the standard scrambler pistol issued to Ishukone Watch's elite forces. How is this variant different? Well, it's issued to Ishukone Watch's "elite forces". It has a Meta level of '1', which quality-wise puts exactly on par with a standard scrambler pistol. There is no mention of the weapon being "Piece of shite given to Ishukone Watch's ELITE forces as a joke", because it would be beyond retardation to give elite troops a weapon that is only equaled by the worst possible weapon you can buy. The description makes no mention of substandard performance at all. It also makes the Meta-level system pointless by equating STD and MLT level gear. A Templar Pistol: A standard-issue weapon used by the first Templars. Again, no mention of the weapon being less than standard quality in any way, but the weapon has MLT fitting all the same. It also has a Meta Level of 3, which is above standard quality. 3 is actually the highest Meta level you can get within standard, higher than an Assault Scrambler Pistol or Breach Scrambler Pistol (Advanced will jump to 4). The weapon has MLT stats all the same. We know the fact they're BPOs has no bearing on their meta-levels since the BPO for a Militia Scrambler itself is also Meta 0. This is separate from the fact that all other Merc-pack BPOs have been standard quality exactly, which means the pistols (Templar and Dren) and the Dren Swarm Launcher alone have bucked the item-quality trend set by Dragonfly Scout, Assault, AR, Covenant Assault, Sniper, Dren Scout, Logi, Assault, Heavy, AR, Shotgun, Toxin SMG, AR, Syndicate, Templar Assault, Logi, Sentinel, Scrambler, etc. etc. There you go.

Teeee Bone C0M8AT V3T3RANS 14	Posted - 2013.11.01 21:37:00 - [81] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: low genius wrote: so, does the op not understand what 'variant' means? am I missing something? a militia weapon is a variant of a standard weapon... Let me run this logic train by you. The fact it says "variant" is not the significant part of the description. Every weapon has a "variations" tab that lists all the variants of that weapon-type. For a Scrambler Pistol, for example, you'd fine Militia, Staff Recruiter, Viziam, and Wolfman's on the variations tap. They're all friggin "variants". If you want to focus on that part - all that means is it's a scrambler pistol as opposed to a Coffee Maker. There are two places (aside from "stats", which would be the more obvious differences) where the weapon qualities/differences are made known: the description and the meta level. A Militia quality Scrambler will read as: A standard-issue scrambler pistol that is less efficient and bulkier than other variants. The militia "variant" sets itself apart by pointing out that is is less efficient and bulkier than other variants. That's the "Militia" difference. Less efficient & bulkier! It says so on the tin. It's also Meta level 0 to let you know you're at rock bottom. A Dren Pistol: A variant of the standard scrambler pistol issued to Ishukone Watch's elite forces. How is this variant different? Well, it's issued to Ishukone Watch's "elite forces". It has a Meta level of '1', which quality-wise puts exactly on par with a standard scrambler pistol. There is no mention of the weapon being "Piece of shite given to Ishukone Watch's ELITE forces as a joke", because it would be beyond retardation to give elite troops a weapon that is only equaled by the worst possible weapon you can buy. The description makes no mention of substandard performance at all. It also makes the Meta-level system pointless by equating STD and MLT level gear. A Templar Pistol: A standard-issue weapon used by the first Templars. Again, no mention of the weapon being less than standard quality in any way, but the weapon has MLT fitting all the same. It also has a Meta Level of 3, which is above standard quality. 3 is actually the highest Meta level you can get within standard, higher than an Assault Scrambler Pistol or Breach Scrambler Pistol (Advanced will jump to 4). The weapon has MLT stats all the same. We know the fact they're BPOs has no bearing on their meta-levels since the BPO for a Militia Scrambler itself is also Meta 0. This is separate from the fact that all other Merc-pack BPOs have been standard quality exactly, which means the pistols (Templar and Dren) and the Dren Swarm Launcher alone have bucked the item-quality trend set by Dragonfly Scout, Assault, AR, Covenant Assault, Sniper, Dren Scout, Logi, Assault, Heavy, AR, Shotgun, Toxin SMG, AR, Syndicate, Templar Assault, Logi, Sentinel, Scrambler, etc. etc. There you go. true story!!!
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2917	Posted - 2013.11.02 13:17:00 - [82] - Quote Even with this post, people still post about this again and again. I think I could probably pull up a list 20-30 other bug/feedback posts mentioning this simple simple problem.
Teeee Bone C0M8AT V3T3RANS 14	Posted - 2013.11.02 14:37:00 - [83] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: Even with this post, people still post about this again and again. I think I could probably pull up a list 20-30 other bug/feedback posts mentioning this simple simple problem. I'm not a software developer, but I think this should be as simple as opening a program and changing a few numbers. Wonder what takes so long.
RAMB0 Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.11.02 15:17:00 - [84] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: Even with this post, people still post about this again and again. I think I could probably pull up a list 20-30 other bug/feedback posts mentioning this simple simple problem. Whatever it takes to get CCP's attention
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 1976	Posted - 2013.11.02 23:25:00 - [85] - Quote Bump. Bought the elite pack today since the value of BPOs is higher than ever, and one of the things I was most looking forward to was not having to constantly rely on the Toxin as my only sidearm. Giving it militia fitting requirements defeats the entire purpose when the real thing is only a few hundred isk. I know it's a relatively negligible issue, but tuat's precisely why it shouldn't be a major issue to fix.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2922	Posted - 2013.11.03 13:35:00 - [86] - Quote Every issue is negligible to someone. If I don't use tanks and tanker complain that there's some bug that really borks tank driving, then it wouldn't impact me at all. If something is broken, it should be fixed regardless. This is in particular is just a database error. It's beyond stupidly easy to correct some values in a database. Basic Excel/database manipulation is taught to high school students. This shouldn't be an issue.
Xinera Xios Gummibaerenbande 514 28	Posted - 2013.11.03 16:09:00 - [87] - Quote Kelrie Nae'bre wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: Kelrie Nae'bre wrote: I think we're past the point where "speed" is something we can attribute here. Maybe in 1.6. Hilarious. like always... so please CCP just do it now because we don't want a second Jita. Baby steps will go for success :)
Magnus Amadeuss Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 160	Posted - 2013.11.04 07:22:00 - [88] - Quote So apparently they are supposed to suck From CCP
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2950	Posted - 2013.11.04 07:38:00 - [89] - Quote He ignored the bit about them having higher meta level than standard items, and the bit about the descriptions saying they were for "Elite forces". The Militia versions are "less efficient and bulkier". These guns use those stats. Because when you want to issue weapons to elite forces, you KNOW elite means "less efficient and bulkier" - when only the absolute shittiest will do. I also like how this position has shifted over time: By design -> Team Kong will take a look at it -> nothing -> By design parroting a recent alogical post about variants that ignores everything else It makes me think everyone that works there is pants-on-head-******** or afraid of databases. Or just digging their heels in on stupid and making excuses for the fact that no one can be bothered to fix simple errors. Militia and BPO Scramblers have greater power draw than specialist versions like the Assault Scrambler and have the same fitting as a MLT SMG despite have lower fitting reqs than an SMG at standard? Makes total sense. Treat those paying customers well. I'm glad I can continue to warn people not to try this game while stuff remains unfixed.
RAMB0 Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.11.04 13:12:00 - [90] - Quote I guess this wont be fixed before elite package goes away tomorrow...... CCP's loss

Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2953	Posted - 2013.11.04 13:16:00 - [91] - Quote The package going away seems like a way to justify never fixing things to me. Kinda like the Burnscar pistol has no unique color/texture, but it's a non-problem on their end because you can't buy it anymore.
Teeee Bone C0M8AT V3T3RANS 17	Posted - 2013.11.04 14:59:00 - [92] - Quote Only good thing about these items is I can sell them to blueberries as standard gear and not get into trouble.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2959	Posted - 2013.11.04 19:49:00 - [93] - Quote Teeee Bone wrote: Only good thing about these items is I can sell them to blueberries as standard gear and not get into trouble. Someday maybe.
Iskandar Zul Karnain Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 2228	Posted - 2013.11.04 20:05:00 - [94] - Quote Not even a lousy blue tag... -ê HellsGÇáorm Director -ê `Gû¦Amarr VictorGû¦`
Teeee Bone C0M8AT V3T3RANS 18	Posted - 2013.11.04 20:13:00 - [95] - Quote Iskandar Zul Karnain wrote: Not even a lousy blue tag... I think CCP should work on their customer service!!!! If they don't support the customers, what's the point in developing anymore content.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2960	Posted - 2013.11.05 04:17:00 - [96] - Quote Teeee Bone wrote: Iskandar Zul Karnain wrote: Not even a lousy blue tag... I think CCP should work on their customer service!!!! If they don't support the customers, what's the point in developing anymore content. It would be nice if they didn't screw the people giving them the most money. Seems like a poor business strategy.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2986	Posted - 2013.11.06 13:10:00 - [97] - Quote The response from the weekly feedback makes me wonder if they do more than skim the first post.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3009	Posted - 2013.11.07 04:16:00 - [98] - Quote
Kelrie Nae'bre not in a corporation 190	Posted - 2013.11.07 13:45:00 - [99] - Quote "Broken and senseless by design"
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3023	Posted - 2013.11.08 17:17:00 - [100] - Quote Kelrie Nae'bre wrote: "Broken and senseless by design" So it would seem. Join my cult.

Kelrie Nae'bre not in a corporation 191	Posted - 2013.11.10 08:28:00 - [101] - Quote If consistent player complaints from May till November aren't enough, why believe they'd change things now?
Dread Pirate Iskandar Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2013.11.13 21:37:00 - [102] - Quote Kelrie Nae'bre wrote: "Broken and senseless by design"
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3050	Posted - 2013.11.14 07:06:00 - [103] - Quote Dread Pirate Iskandar wrote: Kelrie Nae'bre wrote: "Broken and senseless by design" That's a good alt name. Join my cult.
Kelrie Nae'bre not in a corporation 191	Posted - 2013.11.17 15:56:00 - [104] - Quote We could just say that their vacillating position on this matter ultimately tipped towards "SCREW-PLAYERS/CUSTOMERS", and that addressing the full scope of the issues wasn't worth their time? It reminds me a bit of the Murderporn Southpark episode where the cable company reps starts rubbing on their nipples when telling the customers they're screwed.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3063	Posted - 2013.11.19 13:19:00 - [105] - Quote /sigh Join my cult.
Kelrie Nae'bre not in a corporation 192	Posted - 2013.11.21 12:40:00 - [106] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: /sigh Keep the faith.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3070	Posted - 2013.11.22 12:40:00 - [107] - Quote I think the fact they're not sold anymore is the sort of thing that makes people forget about the issue over time. Join my cult.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3076	Posted - 2013.11.25 18:04:00 - [108] - Quote The same would be true of the Templar gear... it's somewhat limited. Join my cult.
Teeee Bone C0M8AT V3T3RANS 21	Posted - 2013.11.26 19:21:00 - [109] - Quote BY DESIGN!!! F'N BS This game INFURIATES ME!!!
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3082	Posted - 2013.11.27 19:39:00 - [110] - Quote It is indeed frustrating. Join my cult.

Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3085	Posted - 2013.12.04 20:27:00 - [111] - Quote So, this wasn't in the 1.7 patch notes... (not that I really expected it to be) Join my cult.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3092	Posted - 2013.12.21 00:46:00 - [112] - Quote I'm going to assume this wasn't fixed in 1.7. Join my cult.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3095	Posted - 2013.12.23 03:35:00 - [113] - Quote All I want for Christmas... Join my cult.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3098	Posted - 2013.12.30 17:44:00 - [114] - Quote All I want for the new year... Join my cult.
Fire of Prometheus DUST University Ivy League 2480	Posted - 2013.12.30 18:18:00 - [115] - Quote Me too :( That and a commando buff Proud member of the Commndo 6 <3 Commando AK.0
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3105	Posted - 2014.01.05 20:56:00 - [116] - Quote Well.. the commando needs more than a little buff or database adjustment, unfortunately. The hp boost was nice, but doesn't address the core issues. Join my cult.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3127	Posted - 2014.01.11 04:21:00 - [117] - Quote So, this still needs to be fixed. Let me reiterate that the items in question are: Listed as standard. Described as used by "elite" forces. Meta Level 3 (higher than standard, but given MLT stats). Join my cult.
Teeee Bone C0M8AT V3T3RANS 30	Posted - 2014.01.11 05:03:00 - [118] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: So, this still needs to be fixed. Let me reiterate that the items in question are: Listed as standard. Described as used by "elite" forces. Meta Level 3 (higher than standard, but given MLT stats). You didn't get the memo did you.... They determined this was by design.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3128	Posted - 2014.01.11 06:25:00 - [119] - Quote Teeee Bone wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: So, this still needs to be fixed. Let me reiterate that the items in question are: Listed as standard. Described as used by "elite" forces. Meta Level 3 (higher than standard, but given MLT stats). You didn't get the memo did you.... They determined this was by design. That means nothing. They determined that treating the MAG suits as "event" items instead of purchased items for the purposes of the AUR reimbursal around game launch was "by design". Enough people spoke out about how many people had actually purchased them, etc. And the stock response from GMs (this is by design) got changed. Them calling this "by design" merely means they haven't actually looked at the issue, understood it, or anything remotely like that. The most recent developer reply of it being "by design" focused on exactly one part of the argument - that the text description about it being standard wasn't necessarily indicative that the item would be. Aside from being stupid, it ignores all the other evidence and parts of the argument. They straw-manned an issue rather than deal with it intelligently after sitting on it for months. I continue to revisit this topic because it's necessary until the devs are capable of answering the argument in full rather than dismissing the concerns of the people that have invested more than anyone else in Dust universe. Many game makers are made to be accountable for concerns of customers who purchased their $60 game. People with these weapon issues paid over 50% more than those plebes, and not for a game... no, for items. Those items being screwed is slapping those people in the face. The product that cost $100 (or $150 for the collector's) was not a game, it was in-game items. It speaks to trust in the company. It's a free-to-play game. You don't "HAVE" to give them anything. For what reason should anyone ever give them money in the future if when trusted with the largest possible sum, they pissed in your face? That's why this is important. It's the principle. Join my cult.
Teeee Bone C0M8AT V3T3RANS 30	Posted - 2014.01.11 15:38:00 - [120] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: Teeee Bone wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: So, this still needs to be fixed. Let me reiterate that the items in question are: Listed as standard. Described as used by "elite" forces. Meta Level 3 (higher than standard, but given MLT stats). You didn't get the memo did you.... They determined this was by design. That means nothing. They determined that treating the MAG suits as "event" items instead of purchased items for the purposes of the AUR reimbursal around game launch was "by design". Enough people spoke out about how many people had actually purchased them, etc. And the stock response from GMs (this is by design) got changed. Them calling this "by design" merely means they haven't actually looked at the issue, understood it, or anything remotely like that. The most recent developer reply of it being "by design" focused on exactly one part of the argument - that the text description about it being standard wasn't necessarily indicative that the item would be. Aside from being stupid, it ignores all the other evidence and parts of the argument. They straw-manned an issue rather than deal with it intelligently after sitting on it for months. I continue to revisit this topic because it's necessary until the devs are capable of answering the argument in full rather than dismissing the concerns of the people that have invested more than anyone else in Dust universe. Many game makers are made to be accountable for concerns of customers who purchased their $60 game. People with these weapon issues paid over 50% more than those plebes, and not for a game... no, for items. Those items being screwed is slapping those people in the face. The product that cost $100 (or $150 for the collector's) was not a game, it was in-game items. It speaks to trust in the company. It's a free-to-play game. You don't "HAVE" to give them anything. For what reason should anyone ever give them money in the future if when trusted with the largest possible sum, they pissed in your face? That's why this is important. It's the principle. Ohh.. Well, in that case, proceed!!! CCP is really busy with what they all got going on, but if we continue to post our dissatisfaction with our product they will eventually give us the time of day..

Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3300	Posted - 2014.01.18 03:48:00 - [121] - Quote Indeed. Join my cult.
Kelrie Nae'bre not in a corporation 198	Posted - 2014.01.25 08:36:00 - [122] - Quote This was never fixed, huh? And I heard the current starter packs have had issues too. That'll learn ya.
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 1130	Posted - 2014.01.25 08:45:00 - [123] - Quote A developer has already stated that "standard" refers to the type, not tier. For example, they aren't Tactical, Assault or Breach. They're Standard. What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage? The pile of garbage is more lethal.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3300	Posted - 2014.01.25 10:12:00 - [124] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: A developer has already stated that "standard" refers to the type, not tier. For example, they aren't Tactical, Assault or Breach. They're Standard. I recall, but he ignored the rest of it. The items are Meta level 1 (above Militia/at standard), and the Templar gear is actually Meta level 3 (above standard). The rest of the Dren gear actually matches the Meta 1 equivalent. The Templar gear does as well for the most part, with the exception of the pieces that actually exceed standard (the droplink and the laser). Every other BPO released for purchase through a Merc pack of some kind has been an exact STD-level equivalent item (e.g. - Exile, Syndicate, Toxin, Dragonfly, Covenant, the OTHER Dren Stuff, etc.). As a purchaser not given more explicit information, it would be reasonable to assume that the items you'd receive would be the same in that respect. In fact, that sort of things informs our purchasing decisions. Someone purchasing the Dren pack that had previously made other purchases would have an incentive to want to purchase a "STD" level Swarm Launcher and Scrambler Pistol - these items had not been previously released. A person that was so inclined could already purchase a Militia quality Scrambler Pistol and Swarm Launcher (both had Militia BPOs). Thus, the whole pack if not corrected serves as a bait-n-switch. "Everything we've ever released in a bundle has been of standard grade. This bundle will seemingly let you upgrade from the Militia-grade BPOs." Surprise! You got ripped off and you have two BPOs that are militia-quality. Both of these bait-n-switch sets of digital items (with respect to the Templar Scrambler, Dren Scrambler, and Dren Swarm) were the most expensive buy-in of any digital bundles. $100 for the Dren gear, and $150 for the Templar gear. The descriptions both call the weapons "standard", and in the case of the Dren, they're also "issued to Elite forces". It's understandable that this doesn't set it apart or mean it's identical to a standard scrambler pistol (you might actually infer they'd be better from the description). What is perhaps more salient is the description of a Militia Scrambler pistol: "standard issue scrambler pistol that is less efficient and bulkier than other variants." The Militia Scrambler is set apart for being crappier basically - less efficient and bulkier. We're asked to believe that the elite forces and the templar's weapons are both identical in make to a pistol that's specifically described as less efficient and bulkier than other pistols? Which pistols? Is it less efficient and bulkier than pistols issues to elite forces? No. It's just as good. Is it less efficient and bulkier than a the standard pistol issued to the Templars? No, it's just as good. To sum up: We have issues of failing to handle buyers expectations or communicate the stats of items in bundles. There's a huge mismatch in item quality between those items and everything else released in a merc pack (BPO-wise) EVER. It seems fundamentally dishonest. The items themselves indicate by meta-level (and comparison with accompanying items, e.g. - other Templar/Dren gear) and description that they should be better than militia-grade (literally the worst items) in the game. It is this combination of factors, and not the word "standard" that this hinges upon. Join my cult.
Teeee Bone C0M8AT V3T3RANS 30	Posted - 2014.01.25 19:15:00 - [125] - Quote I think seeing as though they are touching on a little bit of everything in 1.8 I believe that it would be a smart idea for CCP to just change the stats on these items, because my fingers are just getting warmed up, and I am more than willing to spam the hell outta the forums with this!! ARE YOU ALL WITH ME!? If everyone that reads this were to submit a bug report and create a thread of their own in both the feedback and bug report forums we can't be ignored for 1.8!!!
Centurion mkII Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 207	Posted - 2014.01.25 19:55:00 - [126] - Quote There not going to change the stats. Dren has had this problem for months. Many threads have been made CCPs is committed to screwing us over.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3304	Posted - 2014.01.25 21:25:00 - [127] - Quote Centurion mkII wrote: There not going to change the stats. Dren has had this problem for months. Many threads have been made CCPs is committed to screwing us over. I don't necessarily disagree with your conclusion, but I think the sunk cost warrants making people aware considering how they were willing to screw the best-paying of their customers in a free-to-play game. It servers as a buyer-beware for people that haven't heard of the issue to limit their trust of financial transactions with them. Join my cult.
Kelrie Nae'bre not in a corporation 199	Posted - 2014.01.27 06:15:00 - [128] - Quote You changed the OP.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3334	Posted - 2014.02.06 05:09:00 - [129] - Quote Kelrie Nae'bre wrote: You changed the OP. Bound to happen sometime. It apparently needed some clarifications as far as the issues. Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
Kelrie Nae'bre not in a corporation 204	Posted - 2014.02.10 13:56:00 - [130] - Quote Justice for Dren and Templar?!

NextDark Knight Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 181	Posted - 2014.02.10 15:40:00 - [131] - Quote If you can't fit the BPO Scrambler pistol fit the standard BPC scrambler pistol.. GOSHHHH.. is it really that hard. Forge Changes needed Officer Splash 3.0, Proto 2.7 Advanced 2.5 Standard 2.1. Original ROF needs to return!
General12912 Gallente Marine Corps 59	Posted - 2014.02.11 11:12:00 - [132] - Quote True Adamance wrote: I cannot wait to get my hands of them when they drop. TEMPLAR ME UP! if you mean drop by salvage, its not possible.
Racro 01 Arifistan 501st Knights of Leanbox INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 155	Posted - 2014.02.11 11:15:00 - [133] - Quote my dren gear deems to working fine for me. i have all of them (exept the heavy) with ready to use infi fits. plus they also get affected by bonus's i.e dren caldari assault gets the bonus from caldari assault so it gets the shield bonus and shield regen bonus. this is fckn win. bpo std suits that are affected by the suit bonus's.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3427	Posted - 2014.02.11 16:03:00 - [134] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: If you can't fit the BPO Scrambler pistol fit the standard BPC scrambler pistol.. GOSHHHH.. is it really that hard. Yeah... and if the damage is too low on the recruit SMG, you can always just use the militia one. Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
NextDark Knight Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 184	Posted - 2014.02.11 16:38:00 - [135] - Quote The point is you can fit it.. or you can't... When I can't fit it I use the Standard. It's a Blue Print that's the price you pay for having a blueprint. There is nothing wrong with the stat you guys need to get over yourselves. Forge Changes needed Officer Splash 3.0, Proto 2.7 Advanced 2.5 Standard 2.1. Original ROF needs to return!
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3427	Posted - 2014.02.11 18:44:00 - [136] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: The point is you can fit it.. or you can't... When I can't fit it I use the Standard. It's a Blue Print that's the price you pay for having a blueprint. There is nothing wrong with the stat you guys need to get over yourselves. The point is they were billed as standard, they have meta above standard, every merc-pack item has been standard, and these have been glaring exceptions seemingly sold under false premises. Everyone that has come across this issue is already aware that a standard scrambler, etc. will fit -- that's precisely the point. These items have been made exceptions. If you want an exact standard AR, SMG, Sniper Rifle, or Shotgun - they've obliged. These items are exceptions with bundles of only-standard items. If you've discovered that standard scramblers are easier to fit than militia, that's great. You go do that. Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
Ronan Elsword Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 180	Posted - 2014.02.18 08:06:00 - [137] - Quote Sending my likes. *"War doesn't determine who is right, only who is left."*
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3464	Posted - 2014.02.19 14:33:00 - [138] - Quote Ronan Elsword wrote: Sending my likes. Thank you for your support. Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3591	Posted - 2014.02.26 13:46:00 - [139] - Quote This came up in general again recently, the issue isn't dead... as many Templar code purchasers are discovering the MLT stats on the meta 3 Scrambler there I suppose. Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3697	Posted - 2014.03.03 15:09:00 - [140] - Quote These are still wrong. You were perfectly willing to hand STD level fittings to people using SMGs, ARs, Sniper Rifles, and Shotguns. It's just that Swarm Launcher and Scrambler Pistol specifically you seem to be taking issue with. Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.

Teeee Bone C0M8AT V3T3RANS 103	Posted - 2014.03.04 22:19:00 - [141] - Quote They locked my threads so, bump for CCP response!!! I love the smell of orbital support in the morning!!!
Melai For'Aiur Shining Flame Amarr Empire 24	Posted - 2014.03.07 02:51:00 - [142] - Quote Close to a year now, isn't it?
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3770	Posted - 2014.03.07 20:09:00 - [143] - Quote Melai For'Aiur wrote: Close to a year now, isn't it? For the Dren... not to far off of a year. The Templar release was more recent, unless you count the Templar event, the fact the items were used in the event, and... the fact they refused to answer questions about the event/Templar equipment prior to it being released with the crap stats. This is despite being asked about the Templar Scrambler stats specifically in reference to the fitting/stats issue. Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3815	Posted - 2014.03.13 02:12:00 - [144] - Quote Fanfest is just around the corner, and that's a 1 year anniversary of incorrect stats, misleading sales, and broken promises! Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
Kelrie Nae'bre not in a corporation 231	Posted - 2014.03.18 11:00:00 - [145] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: Fanfest is just around the corner, and that's a 1 year anniversary of incorrect stats, misleading sales, and broken promises! I'm sure there'll be more to come.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3866	Posted - 2014.04.06 18:25:00 - [146] - Quote Kelrie Nae'bre wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: Fanfest is just around the corner, and that's a 1 year anniversary of incorrect stats, misleading sales, and broken promises! I'm sure there'll be more to come. Well, the "what" of Fanfest remains to be seen I guess. Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
akira 1999 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 36	Posted - 2014.04.06 21:14:00 - [147] - Quote any officer named gear will be worth 10 to 1000 x more then the standard gear. that is the way of the market and the way it is intended... want a revenant super carrier.. (2 left in eve after 1 got destroyed).. sure that's 500 billions isk please. want a standard nyx super carrier sure that's 50 billion isk just for the ship all officer/dead space and wormhole space gear is going to be more expensive. that's just the way it is.
SgtMajSquish MLBJ Consolidated Dust 89	Posted - 2014.04.06 21:28:00 - [148] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: Kelrie Nae'bre wrote: I guess in that case it becomes P2GF (Pay to get fixes) as opposed to P2W (pay-to-win). Well, my primary point is that it's a simple fix either way, and it's the sort of thing that "SHOULD" be a no-brainer. However, the fact it's "paid" gear is worth mentioning either way, as it amounts to selling a faulty product (and you can't accuse them of "selling a faulty product" for the free elements of the game). There's a straightforward element of not wanting to get more "win" because you paid money, but having the stuff you paid for be what it's supposed to be. Sort of like if you paid for a booster and it didn't work for half of the time. You got "something", but it doesn't work as it should. You paid money for it, and the product should work as advertised. Really, it's silly that we should even be talking about the stats being wrong on Dren stuff this long after release because the discrepancy was obvious and caught quickly by players. I thought it bore repeating now because it's possibly about to be a repeat event with the Templar Scrambler Pistol's stats if they didn't fix those either. In both cases it's giving substandard service to people that bothered to support the game in the largest possible way. Should they get better service because they paid more? No. But the level of service they've received is below what you'd expect for any product. You can accuse them of selling you a faulty product even in the aspects of it being a free game. My time is not free, in fact it is quite valuable, if I get screwed out of something that I have INVESTED my time into I might as well be spending money Favoring High Latency Is A Load Of Poo
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3873	Posted - 2014.04.13 18:50:00 - [149] - Quote In this case though, actual money was spent as well. Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
Aran Abbas Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 346	Posted - 2014.04.13 19:06:00 - [150] - Quote I think some official statement was made regarding the stats, that they're not incorrect and won't be changed. Basically, "F**k You, Got Mine"

Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3880	Posted - 2014.04.24 06:59:00 - [151] - Quote Aran Abbas wrote: I think some official statement was made regarding the stats, that they're not incorrect and won't be changed. Basically, "F**k You, Got Mine" Yeah, I note the official statements (and the back and forth on it) and the shallow reading they apparently had of the original complaints. Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
Mantis Clone KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 3	Posted - 2014.04.24 07:16:00 - [152] - Quote I joined this game a year and 2 months ago. I have spent almost $300 on this game. Over the course of reading this thread, I really cannot describe the feeling of betrayal and anger that I feel for CCP right now. Please forgive my tardiness, but until this very moment, I believed that my BPO scrmbler pistols, swarm launcher, and laser rifle had equivalent fitting requirements to their standard counterparts as advertised in the product descriptions. I will never pay for this game again. For a company to blatantly disregard an discrepancy that affects the most invested portion of their player base for an entire year is actually a little sickening. They can say that the current fitting requirements for the 'Dren'/'Templar' Scrambler Pistol, 'Dren' Swarm Launcher, and the 'Templar' Laser Rifle are "by design" all they want but it seems obvious to me that this is an error and that instead of fixing it, they chose to ignore it. I really liked this game, but I will not pay money to a company that lies to it's customers. Zeylon Rho, I hope it's okay if I copy your forum signature. If not, just let me know. Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3922	Posted - 2014.05.08 06:29:00 - [153] - Quote I'm guessing the odds of stuff like this getting rectified are even slimmer given the torpedoing of the game development as a whole. Dren&Templar Tragedy.
Lorhak Gannarsein Legio DXIV 3437	Posted - 2014.06.10 01:09:00 - [154] - Quote Don't want this to get locked or anything silly like that :) BlowoutForCPM
Teeee Bone C0M8AT V3T3RANS 111	Posted - 2014.06.29 05:08:00 - [155] - Quote BUMP I love the smell of orbital support in the morning!!!
Teeee Bone C0M8AT V3T3RANS 111	Posted - 2014.06.30 19:22:00 - [156] - Quote With CCP Ratatti in charge now i'm hoping he has somewhat of an understanding of how important this is.. I really want a 30 day passive omega but i've put a boycott on spending because of this very thread. I just hope Ratatti see's this and realizes what we already know. That this is very important for the future success of ccp, not just dust but also legion. I love the smell of orbital support in the morning!!!
Teeee Bone C0M8AT V3T3RANS 111	Posted - 2014.07.06 16:19:00 - [157] - Quote bump I love the smell of orbital support in the morning!!!
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3935	Posted - 2014.07.09 18:46:00 - [158] - Quote I'll admit that I'd be impressed to see old issues like this corrected. Dren&Templar Tragedy.
Rynx Sinfar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1290	Posted - 2014.07.17 13:37:00 - [159] - Quote I'd be impressed with an official response as to any reason. Heck I'd be impressed with CPM responses with reasons. I emailed a few long time ago about it and never got a straight answer then either. It befuddles me that it was never really addressed. What is there to hide? Is there a super secret password needed that got lost? Are the weapons secretly super powerful and if a lot of people used them it would cause issues? Was getting rid of BPOs part of the plan all along and they were made weaker as a first step?
Teeee Bone C0M8AT V3T3RANS 111	Posted - 2014.07.19 16:56:00 - [160] - Quote seamless use of the word befuddles more than deserves a response!!!!!!!! I love the smell of orbital support in the morning!!!

Teeee Bone C0M8AT V3T3RANS 116	Posted - 2014.08.31 16:49:00 - [161] - Quote https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2340847#post2340847 I hope they finally fix this, as it's been beaten to death a zillion different times, and has lost them tons of paying players. I love the smell of orbital support in the morning!!!
Teeee Bone C0M8AT V3T3RANS 116	Posted - 2014.09.08 02:09:00 - [162] - Quote Hallelujah!!!!!! Scrambler Pistols are fixed!!!!!!!!!!!! Just in time to buy some more BPO's!!! I love the smell of orbital support in the morning!!!
Nirwanda Vaughns 426th Infantry 755	Posted - 2014.09.08 11:49:00 - [163] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: I want those bpo dropsuits so bad but I only have a ps3 and all the eve pilots want billions of isk. the second decade collectors edition has dropped in price recently ($100 from $150) even if you don't play EVE the physical stuff you get is really nice to have and you can always sell the EVE codes to a wealthy DUST player (such as myself) for a couple hundred mill isk. i think the stuff in the EVE code is worth about 1-2b EVE isk so that translates over to around 100-200m DUST isk but on topic of the BPOs they've had the militia fitting reqs ever since released. the 'Daemon' Shotgun (EUR exclusive BPO) is also the same too. Never argue with an idiot. they bring you down to their level and beat you through experience
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2657	Posted - 2014.09.08 12:19:00 - [164] - Quote Oh my god let this goddamn thread die!!!
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4155	Posted - 2014.09.08 12:33:00 - [165] - Quote If the meta level listed is that of a Standard weapon, and they are described as GÇ£StandardGÇ¥ in their description, then the stats should be changed to those of a Standard weapon. Or, the description and meta level should be changed. I had been told before I bought the Dren pack that some of the weapon BPOGÇÖs were militia, and I bought the pack mainly for the Sentinel suit, so I donGÇÖt personally have buyerGÇÖs remorse, but at the very least I would like to be able to easily tell whether a BRO is Militia or Standard. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3947	Posted - 2014.09.14 14:59:00 - [166] - Quote Teeee Bone wrote: Hallelujah!!!!!! Scrambler Pistols are fixed!!!!!!!!!!!! Just in time to buy some more BPO's!!! They finally got fixed? Wow. I mean, I'm not sure if it's enough to justify reinstalling Dust on my PS3 that got back from repair, but... better late than never? Dren&Templar Tragedy.
Teeee Bone C0M8AT V3T3RANS 116	Posted - 2014.09.14 15:44:00 - [167] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: Teeee Bone wrote: Hallelujah!!!!!! Scrambler Pistols are fixed!!!!!!!!!!!! Just in time to buy some more BPO's!!! They finally got fixed? Wow. I mean, I'm not sure if it's enough to justify reinstalling Dust on my PS3 that got back from repair, but... better late than never? Yeah, i'm trying to get them to fix the dren swarm launcher too. I believe dust is turning out to be very balanced, although the hopes and dreams have been destroyed it's still worth playing in my opinion. I love the smell of orbital support in the morning!!!
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3947	Posted - 2014.09.14 15:51:00 - [168] - Quote Teeee Bone wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: Teeee Bone wrote: Hallelujah!!!!!! Scrambler Pistols are fixed!!!!!!!!!!!! Just in time to buy some more BPO's!!! They finally got fixed? Wow. I mean, I'm not sure if it's enough to justify reinstalling Dust on my PS3 that got back from repair, but... better late than never? Yeah, i'm trying to get them to fix the dren swarm launcher too. I believe dust is turning out to be very balanced, although the hopes and dreams have been destroyed it's still worth playing in my opinion. Huh. That's an odd omission, if they were set on fixing the BPOs. Dren&Templar Tragedy.
Teeee Bone C0M8AT V3T3RANS 116	Posted - 2014.09.15 16:05:00 - [169] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: Teeee Bone wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: Teeee Bone wrote: Hallelujah!!!!!! Scrambler Pistols are fixed!!!!!!!!!!!! Just in time to buy some more BPO's!!! They finally got fixed? Wow. I mean, I'm not sure if it's enough to justify reinstalling Dust on my PS3 that got back from repair, but... better late than never? Yeah, i'm trying to get them to fix the dren swarm launcher too. I believe dust is turning out to be very balanced, although the hopes and dreams have been destroyed it's still worth playing in my opinion. Huh. That's an odd omission, if they were set on fixing the BPOs. I think there's a reason someone else is in charge of dust now. I just hope it's not too late. I love the smell of orbital support in the morning!!!


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