DUST Search - [request] Dren Weapon stat inconsistencies, and upcoming Templar gear

Zeylon Rho wrote:

Kelrie Nae'bre wrote:

I guess in that case it becomes P2GF (Pay to get fixes) as opposed to P2W (pay-to-win).

Well, my primary point is that it's a simple fix either way, and it's the sort of thing that "SHOULD" be a no-brainer. However, the fact it's "paid" gear is worth mentioning either way, as it amounts to selling a faulty product (and you can't accuse them of "selling a faulty product" for the free elements of the game).

There's a straightforward element of not wanting to get more "win" because you paid money, but having the stuff you paid for be what it's supposed to be. Sort of like if you paid for a booster and it didn't work for half of the time. You got "something", but it doesn't work as it should. You paid money for it, and the product should work as advertised.

Really, it's silly that we should even be talking about the stats being wrong on Dren stuff this long after release because the discrepancy was obvious and caught quickly by players. I thought it bore repeating now because it's possibly about to be a repeat event with the Templar Scrambler Pistol's stats if they didn't fix those either.

In both cases it's giving substandard service to people that bothered to support the game in the largest possible way. Should they get better service because they paid more? No. But the level of service they've received is below what you'd expect for any product.

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Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3300	Posted - 2014.01.18 03:48:00 - [121] - Quote Indeed. Join my cult.
Kelrie Nae'bre not in a corporation 198	Posted - 2014.01.25 08:36:00 - [122] - Quote This was never fixed, huh? And I heard the current starter packs have had issues too. That'll learn ya.
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 1130	Posted - 2014.01.25 08:45:00 - [123] - Quote A developer has already stated that "standard" refers to the type, not tier. For example, they aren't Tactical, Assault or Breach. They're Standard. What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage? The pile of garbage is more lethal.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3300	Posted - 2014.01.25 10:12:00 - [124] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: A developer has already stated that "standard" refers to the type, not tier. For example, they aren't Tactical, Assault or Breach. They're Standard. I recall, but he ignored the rest of it. The items are Meta level 1 (above Militia/at standard), and the Templar gear is actually Meta level 3 (above standard). The rest of the Dren gear actually matches the Meta 1 equivalent. The Templar gear does as well for the most part, with the exception of the pieces that actually exceed standard (the droplink and the laser). Every other BPO released for purchase through a Merc pack of some kind has been an exact STD-level equivalent item (e.g. - Exile, Syndicate, Toxin, Dragonfly, Covenant, the OTHER Dren Stuff, etc.). As a purchaser not given more explicit information, it would be reasonable to assume that the items you'd receive would be the same in that respect. In fact, that sort of things informs our purchasing decisions. Someone purchasing the Dren pack that had previously made other purchases would have an incentive to want to purchase a "STD" level Swarm Launcher and Scrambler Pistol - these items had not been previously released. A person that was so inclined could already purchase a Militia quality Scrambler Pistol and Swarm Launcher (both had Militia BPOs). Thus, the whole pack if not corrected serves as a bait-n-switch. "Everything we've ever released in a bundle has been of standard grade. This bundle will seemingly let you upgrade from the Militia-grade BPOs." Surprise! You got ripped off and you have two BPOs that are militia-quality. Both of these bait-n-switch sets of digital items (with respect to the Templar Scrambler, Dren Scrambler, and Dren Swarm) were the most expensive buy-in of any digital bundles. $100 for the Dren gear, and $150 for the Templar gear. The descriptions both call the weapons "standard", and in the case of the Dren, they're also "issued to Elite forces". It's understandable that this doesn't set it apart or mean it's identical to a standard scrambler pistol (you might actually infer they'd be better from the description). What is perhaps more salient is the description of a Militia Scrambler pistol: "standard issue scrambler pistol that is less efficient and bulkier than other variants." The Militia Scrambler is set apart for being crappier basically - less efficient and bulkier. We're asked to believe that the elite forces and the templar's weapons are both identical in make to a pistol that's specifically described as less efficient and bulkier than other pistols? Which pistols? Is it less efficient and bulkier than pistols issues to elite forces? No. It's just as good. Is it less efficient and bulkier than a the standard pistol issued to the Templars? No, it's just as good. To sum up: We have issues of failing to handle buyers expectations or communicate the stats of items in bundles. There's a huge mismatch in item quality between those items and everything else released in a merc pack (BPO-wise) EVER. It seems fundamentally dishonest. The items themselves indicate by meta-level (and comparison with accompanying items, e.g. - other Templar/Dren gear) and description that they should be better than militia-grade (literally the worst items) in the game. It is this combination of factors, and not the word "standard" that this hinges upon. Join my cult.
Teeee Bone C0M8AT V3T3RANS 30	Posted - 2014.01.25 19:15:00 - [125] - Quote I think seeing as though they are touching on a little bit of everything in 1.8 I believe that it would be a smart idea for CCP to just change the stats on these items, because my fingers are just getting warmed up, and I am more than willing to spam the hell outta the forums with this!! ARE YOU ALL WITH ME!? If everyone that reads this were to submit a bug report and create a thread of their own in both the feedback and bug report forums we can't be ignored for 1.8!!!
Centurion mkII Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 207	Posted - 2014.01.25 19:55:00 - [126] - Quote There not going to change the stats. Dren has had this problem for months. Many threads have been made CCPs is committed to screwing us over.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3304	Posted - 2014.01.25 21:25:00 - [127] - Quote Centurion mkII wrote: There not going to change the stats. Dren has had this problem for months. Many threads have been made CCPs is committed to screwing us over. I don't necessarily disagree with your conclusion, but I think the sunk cost warrants making people aware considering how they were willing to screw the best-paying of their customers in a free-to-play game. It servers as a buyer-beware for people that haven't heard of the issue to limit their trust of financial transactions with them. Join my cult.
Kelrie Nae'bre not in a corporation 199	Posted - 2014.01.27 06:15:00 - [128] - Quote You changed the OP.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3334	Posted - 2014.02.06 05:09:00 - [129] - Quote Kelrie Nae'bre wrote: You changed the OP. Bound to happen sometime. It apparently needed some clarifications as far as the issues. Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
Kelrie Nae'bre not in a corporation 204	Posted - 2014.02.10 13:56:00 - [130] - Quote Justice for Dren and Templar?!
NextDark Knight Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 181	Posted - 2014.02.10 15:40:00 - [131] - Quote If you can't fit the BPO Scrambler pistol fit the standard BPC scrambler pistol.. GOSHHHH.. is it really that hard. Forge Changes needed Officer Splash 3.0, Proto 2.7 Advanced 2.5 Standard 2.1. Original ROF needs to return!
General12912 Gallente Marine Corps 59	Posted - 2014.02.11 11:12:00 - [132] - Quote True Adamance wrote: I cannot wait to get my hands of them when they drop. TEMPLAR ME UP! if you mean drop by salvage, its not possible.
Racro 01 Arifistan 501st Knights of Leanbox INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 155	Posted - 2014.02.11 11:15:00 - [133] - Quote my dren gear deems to working fine for me. i have all of them (exept the heavy) with ready to use infi fits. plus they also get affected by bonus's i.e dren caldari assault gets the bonus from caldari assault so it gets the shield bonus and shield regen bonus. this is fckn win. bpo std suits that are affected by the suit bonus's.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3427	Posted - 2014.02.11 16:03:00 - [134] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: If you can't fit the BPO Scrambler pistol fit the standard BPC scrambler pistol.. GOSHHHH.. is it really that hard. Yeah... and if the damage is too low on the recruit SMG, you can always just use the militia one. Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
NextDark Knight Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 184	Posted - 2014.02.11 16:38:00 - [135] - Quote The point is you can fit it.. or you can't... When I can't fit it I use the Standard. It's a Blue Print that's the price you pay for having a blueprint. There is nothing wrong with the stat you guys need to get over yourselves. Forge Changes needed Officer Splash 3.0, Proto 2.7 Advanced 2.5 Standard 2.1. Original ROF needs to return!
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3427	Posted - 2014.02.11 18:44:00 - [136] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: The point is you can fit it.. or you can't... When I can't fit it I use the Standard. It's a Blue Print that's the price you pay for having a blueprint. There is nothing wrong with the stat you guys need to get over yourselves. The point is they were billed as standard, they have meta above standard, every merc-pack item has been standard, and these have been glaring exceptions seemingly sold under false premises. Everyone that has come across this issue is already aware that a standard scrambler, etc. will fit -- that's precisely the point. These items have been made exceptions. If you want an exact standard AR, SMG, Sniper Rifle, or Shotgun - they've obliged. These items are exceptions with bundles of only-standard items. If you've discovered that standard scramblers are easier to fit than militia, that's great. You go do that. Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
Ronan Elsword Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 180	Posted - 2014.02.18 08:06:00 - [137] - Quote Sending my likes. *"War doesn't determine who is right, only who is left."*
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3464	Posted - 2014.02.19 14:33:00 - [138] - Quote Ronan Elsword wrote: Sending my likes. Thank you for your support. Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3591	Posted - 2014.02.26 13:46:00 - [139] - Quote This came up in general again recently, the issue isn't dead... as many Templar code purchasers are discovering the MLT stats on the meta 3 Scrambler there I suppose. Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3697	Posted - 2014.03.03 15:09:00 - [140] - Quote These are still wrong. You were perfectly willing to hand STD level fittings to people using SMGs, ARs, Sniper Rifles, and Shotguns. It's just that Swarm Launcher and Scrambler Pistol specifically you seem to be taking issue with. Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
Teeee Bone C0M8AT V3T3RANS 103	Posted - 2014.03.04 22:19:00 - [141] - Quote They locked my threads so, bump for CCP response!!! I love the smell of orbital support in the morning!!!
Melai For'Aiur Shining Flame Amarr Empire 24	Posted - 2014.03.07 02:51:00 - [142] - Quote Close to a year now, isn't it?
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3770	Posted - 2014.03.07 20:09:00 - [143] - Quote Melai For'Aiur wrote: Close to a year now, isn't it? For the Dren... not to far off of a year. The Templar release was more recent, unless you count the Templar event, the fact the items were used in the event, and... the fact they refused to answer questions about the event/Templar equipment prior to it being released with the crap stats. This is despite being asked about the Templar Scrambler stats specifically in reference to the fitting/stats issue. Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3815	Posted - 2014.03.13 02:12:00 - [144] - Quote Fanfest is just around the corner, and that's a 1 year anniversary of incorrect stats, misleading sales, and broken promises! Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
Kelrie Nae'bre not in a corporation 231	Posted - 2014.03.18 11:00:00 - [145] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: Fanfest is just around the corner, and that's a 1 year anniversary of incorrect stats, misleading sales, and broken promises! I'm sure there'll be more to come.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3866	Posted - 2014.04.06 18:25:00 - [146] - Quote Kelrie Nae'bre wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: Fanfest is just around the corner, and that's a 1 year anniversary of incorrect stats, misleading sales, and broken promises! I'm sure there'll be more to come. Well, the "what" of Fanfest remains to be seen I guess. Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
akira 1999 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 36	Posted - 2014.04.06 21:14:00 - [147] - Quote any officer named gear will be worth 10 to 1000 x more then the standard gear. that is the way of the market and the way it is intended... want a revenant super carrier.. (2 left in eve after 1 got destroyed).. sure that's 500 billions isk please. want a standard nyx super carrier sure that's 50 billion isk just for the ship all officer/dead space and wormhole space gear is going to be more expensive. that's just the way it is.
SgtMajSquish MLBJ Consolidated Dust 89	Posted - 2014.04.06 21:28:00 - [148] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: Kelrie Nae'bre wrote: I guess in that case it becomes P2GF (Pay to get fixes) as opposed to P2W (pay-to-win). Well, my primary point is that it's a simple fix either way, and it's the sort of thing that "SHOULD" be a no-brainer. However, the fact it's "paid" gear is worth mentioning either way, as it amounts to selling a faulty product (and you can't accuse them of "selling a faulty product" for the free elements of the game). There's a straightforward element of not wanting to get more "win" because you paid money, but having the stuff you paid for be what it's supposed to be. Sort of like if you paid for a booster and it didn't work for half of the time. You got "something", but it doesn't work as it should. You paid money for it, and the product should work as advertised. Really, it's silly that we should even be talking about the stats being wrong on Dren stuff this long after release because the discrepancy was obvious and caught quickly by players. I thought it bore repeating now because it's possibly about to be a repeat event with the Templar Scrambler Pistol's stats if they didn't fix those either. In both cases it's giving substandard service to people that bothered to support the game in the largest possible way. Should they get better service because they paid more? No. But the level of service they've received is below what you'd expect for any product. You can accuse them of selling you a faulty product even in the aspects of it being a free game. My time is not free, in fact it is quite valuable, if I get screwed out of something that I have INVESTED my time into I might as well be spending money Favoring High Latency Is A Load Of Poo
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3873	Posted - 2014.04.13 18:50:00 - [149] - Quote In this case though, actual money was spent as well. Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
Aran Abbas Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 346	Posted - 2014.04.13 19:06:00 - [150] - Quote I think some official statement was made regarding the stats, that they're not incorrect and won't be changed. Basically, "F**k You, Got Mine"

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