Snipers shouldn't be able to lockdown an objective single-handedly from hundreds of meters away in a position where no other gun can reach them so people need to call in dropships which will get forged before they are even released from the RDV. Perhaps you should adapt? If you want to snipe, how about finding a nice spot to cover high traffic areas instead of simply waiting on a spot where people have to stay relatively still with their backs turned? And yeah expect the occasional guy who you aggravate to try and rush you, you were given a sidearm for a reason.

If you look at all the nerfs to suits and weapons it points to one thing. That one thing is whinny AR users. I am getting sniped and they are out of my AR range so they must be stopped, CCP nerf hammer to the rescue. I am a heavy I can take on 2-3 AR users and do Ok. No heavy wrong, AR trumps a heavy armored suit with mini Gatling gun every time. CCP nerf hammer break the heavies spirit and make there weapon useless. CCP scouts are to fast and I cant kill them with my AR, no worries nerf hammer away. If you have not learned yet, if its not an AR and it can kill an AR user then it has to be nerfed into uselessness. I am surprised ScR have not felt the sting of the AR 514 nerf hammer yet. Ok I should shut up, do not want to give them any ideas.

CCP just seems to be skating around the real issues people got tired of being sniped from roof tops by sniper and forge snipers so let **** everyone and but a lip around all the new building and also lets make all the new obj in doors so that snipers again get the **** end of the stick idk about u other snipers but im not gonna waste a 60k sniper suit running around the city to just get shot in the back? and the forge gun issue well that hasnt gotten fixed at all the forge gun is still the most op gun in the game u shouldnt be able to do 6k+ damage in 6 seconds with the proto forge gun with out damage mods ive personally lost over 100 million isk to proto forge gun guys because u cant react fast enough in a hav or even a dropship to avoid them especially when there charge time is one and a half seconds

As a forge gunner, I've never once landed a kill that made me feel even remotely skilled.



Wait I take that back. I killed a guy jumping off a tower at an angle while he was waiting to hit his inertia dampener. That was cool.

Indoor Objectives = Remote Explosives Deaths

Could not have said it better!

All you snipers need to learn from Calisk. That guy takes sniping to another level. Upfront and personal; following the squad with his sniper rifle making it useful right in the action. Best sniper in the game.

CCP just seems to be skating around the real issues people got tired of being sniped from roof tops by sniper and forge snipers so let **** everyone and but a lip around all the new building and also lets make all the new obj in doors so that snipers again get the **** end of the stick idk about u other snipers but im not gonna waste a 60k sniper suit running around the city to just get shot in the back?

CCP LogicLoop said these new socket designs and maps were intentional to hobble snipers. The wanted no ladders, few or no climbable structures and wanted all of the objectives hidden inside building complexes or underground. He also said that it was going to be the future of the game.

Im sorry OP but im not gonna be involved in another sniper argument!
But I wil tell you the basis of my opinion from my conversation with Jantheil

We spent many pages discussing the changes to the sniper's abilities, spots, and even the basic archetype of the weapon.
For convineiance I will summarise using a series of statements.

1) The sniper role does not only consist of killing people
2) In the new maps sniper have a risk v reward like all other roles
3) The best spots are assumed to be the ones with the widest view
4) The best spots are easy to reach, by everyone
5) To use the best spots you need control of the area
6) The more "protected" a spot is the less you can see
7) Snipers are expected to need to relocate, as often as every 3-4mins
8) Sniper ranges typically begin as short as ~100m
9) If you don't kill a guy before he starts hacking, you should not be able to snipe him while he hacks.
10) Snipers have anti-material roles as well (destroying exposed enemy equipment etc.)

It is hard to tell if you agree or disagree with these statements, so I'm assuming you agree with them for the purposes of my reply.

1) I agree.
2) I have no problem with risk vs. reward. But nobody runs into CQC with a sniper rifle when other more effective choices are available. The CQC guys have the highest risk but get the highest rewards. There is a reason you don't see herds of snipers in CQC. The few snipers who do run with squads in close support are running with some of the best corps in the game. This takes a lot of pressure off the sniper because their squad is killing everything in sight.
3) This isn't true at all. Some of the best spots have very narrow points of view.
4) The best spots should be reachable by anyone. Anyone should have the ability to CQC me when I'm sniping. I dislike the redline.
5) No.
6) While this is strictly true is isn't necessarily bad. See my point #3 above.
7) I agree. Sitting still is an invitation to counter-sniping or ambush by angry reds in a clown car.
8) Some of the shorter range weapons in the game have ranges that are close enough to 100m that the player is only a second or two from you if he is running/sprinting. So, I'm going to give this one a cautious 'No'.
9) Bull. Absolute fresh from the bovine's bum. Bull, bull, bull. If a guy starts hacking then, by this logic, nobody should be able to shoot him. Because if you can't stop him, he should be allowed to hack.
10) Absolutely. It is one of our most important functions.

Munch

As for 5 this is dependant on the suit type, I would expect it to be hard for say a commando to snipe from behind enemy lines, but it is important role for a scout sniper.

I'm not sure I disagree with your above statement but I don't think we are talking about the same thing.

I disagree that "To use the best spots you need control of the area". To me this meant that my team or I had to be in control of an area for me to get the best sniping spot or to snipe effectively.
Munch

Its actually pretty fun getting low and hiding in a dip in the terrain to snipe guys, most people dont expect to be fired on by a sniper that way since all the scrub snipers go for the high spots and divert attention away from my sneaking self

I would argue that sniping has always had an appropriate level of risk. The easiest people to snipe are snipers.

I think part of the problem is that people fit for CQC find that they can't take out a sniper with their own weapons due to range issues. For some reason this is deemed unfair -- as it would require travel time to get into range or a fit change to use a more appropriate counter-sniping weapon.

I'm also not sure the best spots should be easy to reach by everyone. For example, a light suit may find it easier to climb or jump to some structures. This doesn't mean that the sniper can't be shot down from this perch but it does imply that some suits would not necessarily be able to access the best spots. Specialization of this nature would not be a bad thing -- as it might reduce complaining about "unkillable" heavies sniping with impunity.

Let's not confuse some of the issues players find frustrating with the current implementation as being problems relevant to the concept of sniping as a whole instead of how it is being conducted in some instances.

CCP generally takes an awful big hammer to swat a fly and it seems that sniping is going down this path.

There was considerably less risk to sniping then any other proffesion, if camper found a good spoint and glitched his barrel through the terrain he could be untoachable.

And don't forget if the only way to deal with a weapon is to use the same weapon, thats OP.
The sniper rifle was beginning to lean that way on the older maps. Not because of stats but because of lack of risk!

I killed a guy jumping off a tower at an angle while he was waiting to hit his inertia dampener. That was cool.

Glitches -- instead of nerfing sniping perhaps the glitches could be attacked instead? I have to say though that rendering issues can suggest glitches but if a sniper has hunkered down behind a hill of course you can't shoot him -- he can't shoot out either. That's not a glitch.

Risk -- sniping was only riskless if nobody else was sniping. Which leads to your following point. However, the whole point of sniping involves having a range advantage. By design, you must have a weapon that can reach the sniper to kill the sniper. This is not OP on it's own.

Something isn't OP because it's inconvenient to counter or otherwise a pain in the ass. I know everybody loves to hate snipers but if CCP is going to have them in the game (without nerfing them to death) people are going to have to learn to deal with it.

An OP weapon is when the ONLY way to take out a weapon x is with a weapon x!

Now if they were roof camping, redline camping, or somewhere in the back beyond with a full view of the entire map, that was pretty much it!

So now CCP have given you MORE risk, and that is the fact is that if someone see's you there is the potential they will ride over and put a round in the back of your skull! Doesn't mean its convenient, doesn't mean its easy. Butnthe guy doesn't have to say "damn they have a sniper, ive got get my sniper fit now, and hope I scare him from that spot for the rest of the match"

Unless the building is in the red line as well anybody can climb it -- or be airlifted onto it. Alternately, drop ships should be able to take out snipers.

There are always options if people will take them. Even changing fits is not a sin. Do we not have to grab AV when the tanks come to town?



True, but this is where I consider snipers, or myself, to be a pain in the ass. How many people want to interrupt what they are doing, grab a LAV, drive across the battlefield, sneak up behind me while I'm aiming... and commit depraved acts to my soon to be corpse?

The answer is certainly more than zero -- but in general a sniper can often get far enough way (without bringing the redline into the equation) that he or she can run when it looks like someone is pissed off and looking for sniper scalp.

Sniper's shouldn't be forced into close CQC support just to make killing them easier. They aren't OP for the fact that they have range -- that's what snipers do. They kill at range and preferably from concealment. From a dust point of view "relative" concealment.

totaling all the money me and my corp have lost to the forge gun its over 1bil and ccp still wont give us another re-spec to get out of vehicles? its it just me or does anyone else feel fuked over

CCP just seems to be skating around the real issues people got tired of being sniped from roof tops by sniper and forge snipers so let **** everyone and but a lip around all the new building and also lets make all the new obj in doors so that snipers again get the **** end of the stick idk about u other snipers but im not gonna waste a 60k sniper suit running around the city to just get shot in the back? and the forge gun issue well that hasnt gotten fixed at all the forge gun is still the most op gun in the game u shouldnt be able to do 6k+ damage in 6 seconds with the proto forge gun with out damage mods ive personally lost over 100 million isk to proto forge gun guys because u cant react fast enough in a hav or even a dropship to avoid them especially when there charge time is one and a half seconds

I would've preferred having the building tops without the border/railing, but also lacking cover. You can snipe, but you're out in the open. Securing objectives, etc. below ground is also good (and makes sense).

I dislike the restricting firing from above/using roofs because the element of verticality added depth to maps and play. It's abused, clearly, on those skyscrapers and the like. However, maps where someone can be on the equivalent of a second story up a ladder... that was ok, right?

I think adding tunnels/indoor areas/etc. was probably enough to hobble snipers without the odd building edits.

CCP just seems to be skating around the real issues people got tired of being sniped from roof tops by sniper and forge snipers so let **** everyone and but a lip around all the new building and also lets make all the new obj in doors so that snipers again get the **** end of the stick idk about u other snipers but im not gonna waste a 60k sniper suit running around the city to just get shot in the back? and the forge gun issue well that hasnt gotten fixed at all the forge gun is still the most op gun in the game u shouldnt be able to do 6k+ damage in 6 seconds with the proto forge gun with out damage mods ive personally lost over 100 million isk to proto forge gun guys because u cant react fast enough in a hav or even a dropship to avoid them especially when there charge time is one and a half seconds

Amen, bro.

CCP LogicLoop said these new socket designs and maps were intentional to hobble snipers. The wanted no ladders, few or no climbable structures and wanted all of the objectives hidden inside building complexes or underground. He also said that it was going to be the future of the game.

BUT he also said that some of the negative feedback he was getting from snipers had some merit and he would take it into account in the future.

All I want to do is play the game as a sniper and have some use to my team as a spotter, to provide cover for them and cover choke points/objectives. It seems to me that these are pretty basic sniper functions.

Just sayin'.


Munch

These indoor objectives are bullsh*t regardless of sniping. All a team has to do in domination is just grab it first, drop the links then RE the place or lob grenades and sit on it and wait for an orbital.

There is no chance for the other team to take it away due to the cover provided unless it's a non-proto squad that grabbed it prior to being stomped out.