| Pages: 1 2  :: [one page] | 
      
      
        | Author | Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) | 
      
      
        |  CharCharOdell
 Shining Flame
 Amarr Empire
 
 975
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.24 17:46:00 -
          [1] - Quote 
 I feel like a lot of the QQ from AV is from NEEDING to be able to solo a tank to get WP. Perhaps, if for every 1000pts of damage, 40 wp were awarded, then it would be beneficial to the AV if tanks were stronger BC then they have a constant source of WP.
 
 Now tanks get a buff AND it gives AV more points than a tiny 150 for a single kill.
 
 For instance, there are battles that I'll take well over 100,000 damage; that is (4000 possible war points. That is two orbitals. That is a 400k risk payout to multiple nerfs for NOT killing a tank.
 
 Brilliant. Now tanks are not a nuisance but a isk fountain. It's like laying down nanohives as a logi Nd having a mass driver use it.
 
 If you like it, please bump, BC CCP needs to see this.
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        |  Xender17
 Ahrendee Mercenaries
 EoN.
 
 678
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.24 17:52:00 -
          [2] - Quote 
 
 CharCharOdell wrote:I feel like a lot of the QQ from AV is from NEEDING to be able to solo a tank to get WP. Perhaps, if for every 1000pts of damage, 40 wp were awarded, then it would be beneficial to the AV if tanks were stronger BC then they have a constant source of WP.
 Now tanks get a buff AND it gives AV more points than a tiny 150 for a single kill.
 
 For instance, there are battles that I'll take well over 100,000 damage; that is (4000 possible war points. That is two orbitals. That is a 400k risk payout to multiple nerfs for NOT killing a tank.
 
 Brilliant. Now tanks are not a nuisance but a isk fountain. It's like laying down nanohives as a logi Nd having a mass driver use it.
 
 If you like it, please bump, BC CCP needs to see this.
 ...
 1000?
 So 80 points every volley of swarms?
 
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        |  Void Echo
 Morsus Mihi Aperuitque Imperium
 
 1524
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.24 17:53:00 -
          [3] - Quote 
 i can see it now..... 50 swarms coming at me from behind and invisible..... so i don't know there coming until i see all my HP drop down in less than 3 seconds...
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        |  Keri Starlight
 Psygod9
 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
 
 471
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.24 17:55:00 -
          [4] - Quote 
 heh... tempting.
 
 It all depends about how much tanks get buffed... they will become even tastier... even tastier than bacon...
 
 It might work, I guess we could give this a try and of course it will be necessary to follow the progresses and the changes carefully and adjust the values eventually.
 
 EDIT: 40 WP for 1000 damage seems way too much, though.
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        |  Parson Atreides
 Ahrendee Mercenaries
 EoN.
 
 708
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.24 17:56:00 -
          [5] - Quote 
 It actually used to work like that a while ago. Not sure why it was changed.
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        |  LuckyLuke Wargan
 HavoK Core
 RISE of LEGION
 
 232
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.24 17:57:00 -
          [6] - Quote 
 I like it, the reason being that I am tired of people stilling your kill with a fracking AR in that short frame window vehicles often have after being hit with an AV weapon... to give an exemple (beacause it is something that non AVers don't seem to realize) I shoot swarms at a dropship, drophips catch on fire and has a few seconds before crashing (gives a chance for crew to escape), here come mister AR, shooting a few bullets into it, effectively being the last person hitting it, dropships crash, and I get the f*kitten* assist and they get the kill... this is an issue I rarely see address, but is truely an annoyance for me when I try to play AV... and it's definitely not fair that after chasing and HAV all over the map that the kill is awarded to someone with a fracking AR.
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        |  Melchiah ARANeAE
 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
 DARKSTAR ARMY
 
 32
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.24 17:57:00 -
          [7] - Quote 
 I'd say 15 wp for every 1000 damage dealt. That'd still be 90-120 WP from a well fit tank.
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        |  Muud Kipz
 Elevated Technologies
 
 60
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.24 17:58:00 -
          [8] - Quote 
 
 Xender17 wrote:CharCharOdell wrote:I feel like a lot of the QQ from AV is from NEEDING to be able to solo a tank to get WP. Perhaps, if for every 1000pts of damage, 40 wp were awarded, then it would be beneficial to the AV if tanks were stronger BC then they have a constant source of WP.
 Now tanks get a buff AND it gives AV more points than a tiny 150 for a single kill.
 
 For instance, there are battles that I'll take well over 100,000 damage; that is (4000 possible war points. That is two orbitals. That is a 400k risk payout to multiple nerfs for NOT killing a tank.
 
 Brilliant. Now tanks are not a nuisance but a isk fountain. It's like laying down nanohives as a logi Nd having a mass driver use it.
 
 If you like it, please bump, BC CCP needs to see this.
 ... 1000? So 80 points every volley of swarms?  
 So the numbers are a bit off, that's not the point here. It's still a good idea- AV is meant to (sometimes) neutralize tanks, and this doesn't (and shouldn't) mean destruction every time. If I spawn in with an AV fit and manage to damage/chase away a well-fitted blaster Maddy, that was a valuable action and should be rewarded.
 +1 or signed or whatever.
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        |  Fox Gaden
 Immortal Guides
 
 1131
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.24 18:02:00 -
          [9] - Quote 
 Since driving away a tank is often as effective as actually killing a tank, I suppose this makes some sense. I would reduce the payout to 10 WP per 1000 HP though. There would still be the rewards for Kill and Kill Assist. Ideally a tank kill would require the combined efforts of 2 or 3 AV Infantry.
 
 And since this is a Tank/AV thread I feel obligated to shamelessly promote my guide:  Fox Guide: Swarm Launcher, Unleashing the Swarm
 
 
 ____________________________________________________________________________Immortal Guides , supporting knowledge dissemination in New Eden since August 31, 2013. | 
      
      
        |  Bojo The Mighty
 Zanzibar Concept
 
 2015
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.24 18:04:00 -
          [10] - Quote 
 Faction Warfare Farming
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        |  Beren Hurin
 Onslaught Inc
 RISE of LEGION
 
 1683
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.24 18:05:00 -
          [11] - Quote 
 A tank kill with 3 people inside is 300 WP rewarded. It's like 6 kills. If the tank is 250k isk and each player is wearing 15k isk in suits that's 295k isk you destroyed or about the equivalent of killing 6 ADV+ suits. Typically HAVs are worth a little more isk than that though.
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        |  Bojo The Mighty
 Zanzibar Concept
 
 2015
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.24 18:09:00 -
          [12] - Quote 
 
 Beren Hurin wrote:A tank kill with 3 people inside is 300 WP rewarded. It's like 6 kills. If the tank is 250k isk and each player is wearing 15k isk in suits that's 295k isk you destroyed or about the equivalent of killing 6 ADV+ suits. Typically HAVs are worth a little more isk than that though. Typically a lot more. 250 K is a Soma with Militia Modules
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        |  Fox Gaden
 Immortal Guides
 
 1131
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.24 18:11:00 -
          [13] - Quote 
 
 LuckyLuke Wargan wrote:I like it, the reason being that I am tired of people stilling your kill with a fracking AR in that short frame window vehicles often have after being hit with an AV weapon... to give an exemple (beacause it is something that non AVers don't seem to realize) I shoot swarms at a dropship, drophips catch on fire and has a few seconds before crashing (gives a chance for crew to escape), here come mister AR, shooting a few bullets into it, effectively being the last person hitting it, dropships crash, and I get the f*kitten* assist and they get the kill... this is an issue I rarely see address, but is truely an annoyance for me when I try to play AV... and it's definitely not fair that after chasing and HAV all over the map that the kill is awarded to someone with a fracking AR.  AR users are not always to blame. Most Dropships die from impact damage, which is why AVers usually only get Assists. I try to send an extra valley after a dropship when it is falling in flames in hopes of getting the kill before it crashes.
 
 I think HAVGÇÖs and LAVGÇÖs are different, as I usually get the kill on them.
 
 Of course there are times when people are lucky and get a shot on a mostly dead tank. I have heard of a Sniper getting a HAV kill.
 
 
 ____________________________________________________________________________Immortal Guides , supporting knowledge dissemination in New Eden since August 31, 2013. | 
      
      
        |  CharCharOdell
 Shining Flame
 Amarr Empire
 
 975
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.24 18:13:00 -
          [14] - Quote 
 Basically, best idea ever, even if numbers are off.
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        |  Sgt Kirk
 SyNergy Gaming
 EoN.
 
 1952
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.24 18:15:00 -
          [15] - Quote 
 you used to in a galaxy far far away from here. Back when I actually enjoyed this game but it was probably because it was still new to me.
 
 With nothing else much to do and not being able to build my character lore wise as a former Gallente, Black Eagle Agent (which was the major fun for me for some reason) I lost interest.
 
 A lot of my stamina drained back when armored suits were shite and MD ruled the day.
 
 I'll take a break this month and see if the fun comes back in 1.6 but by then the ps4 will probably kill this game for me if I get it.
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        |  LuckyLuke Wargan
 HavoK Core
 RISE of LEGION
 
 232
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.24 18:16:00 -
          [16] - Quote 
 
 Fox Gaden wrote:LuckyLuke Wargan wrote:I like it, the reason being that I am tired of people stilling your kill with a fracking AR in that short frame window vehicles often have after being hit with an AV weapon... to give an exemple (beacause it is something that non AVers don't seem to realize) I shoot swarms at a dropship, drophips catch on fire and has a few seconds before crashing (gives a chance for crew to escape), here come mister AR, shooting a few bullets into it, effectively being the last person hitting it, dropships crash, and I get the f*kitten* assist and they get the kill... this is an issue I rarely see address, but is truely an annoyance for me when I try to play AV... and it's definitely not fair that after chasing and HAV all over the map that the kill is awarded to someone with a fracking AR.  AR users are not always to blame. Most Dropships die from impact damage, which is why AVers usually only get Assists. I try to send an extra valley after a dropship when it is falling in flames in hopes of getting the kill before it crashes.  I think HAVGÇÖs and LAVGÇÖs are different, as I usually get the kill on them. Of course there are times when people are lucky and get a shot on a mostly dead tank. I have heard of a Sniper getting a HAV kill. ____________________________________________________________________________Immortal Guides , supporting knowledge dissemination in New Eden since August 31, 2013. I see what you are saying, it's still an issue though.
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        |  Crash Monster
 Snipers Anonymous
 
 1413
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.24 18:17:00 -
          [17] - Quote 
 I think this idea has been proposed a few times in the last couple of days...
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        |  Godin Thekiller
 Hellstorm Inc
 League of Infamy
 
 870
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.24 18:18:00 -
          [18] - Quote 
 
 Parson Atreides wrote:It actually used to work like that a while ago. Not sure why it was changed. 
 Because it had no wp cap.
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        |  Odiain Suliis
 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
 DARKSTAR ARMY
 
 176
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.24 18:29:00 -
          [19] - Quote 
 If there isn't cap implemented in this thing, it will be abused to farm WP's. Just arrnage a tanker to sit and repp it self and have few folks damage it and you have a easy WP machine to farm.
 
 Or even better yet, put infantry logis repping it with BRD-5's and you have almost as much repp landing per logi as a one heavy IG-L repper. This way logi gets his trige bonus and swarmers get their bonus. Or tanker can fit max HP tank on it to accomodate more swarmers.
 
 Nice idea, but flawed.
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        |  Awry Barux
 Shining Flame
 Amarr Empire
 
 107
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.24 18:37:00 -
          [20] - Quote 
 
 Odiain Suliis wrote:If there isn't cap implemented in this thing, it will be abused to farm WP's. Just arrnage a tanker to sit and repp it self and have few folks damage it and you have a easy WP machine to farm.
 Or even better yet, put infantry logis repping it with BRD-5's and you have almost as much repp landing per logi as a one heavy IG-L repper. This way logi gets his trige bonus and swarmers get their bonus. Or tanker can fit max HP tank on it to accomodate more swarmers.
 
 Nice idea, but flawed.
 
 I don't really see this being a problem. All it takes to mess up that setup is one unexpected AFG, or a sniper, or both. Unless someone manages to fill an entire FW team with people committed to exploiting this, it's not going to really work.
 
 Besides, I don't see what the big deal is if a few people put a lot of effort into farming WPs. I couldn't care less if someone gets 2.5k WP / match by farming it. If they want to sacrifice any fun to earn about 1k extra SP per 10-20 minute match, fine, but that's no reason to reject changes that would seriously alleviate the complaints of many AVers.
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        |  chase rowland
 The Enclave Syndicate
 Dark Taboo
 
 16
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.24 18:43:00 -
          [21] - Quote 
 
 CharCharOdell wrote:I feel like a lot of the QQ from AV is from NEEDING to be able to solo a tank to get WP. Perhaps, if for every 1000pts of damage, 40 wp were awarded, then it would be beneficial to the AV if tanks were stronger BC then they have a constant source of WP.
 Now tanks get a buff AND it gives AV more points than a tiny 150 for a single kill.
 
 For instance, there are battles that I'll take well over 100,000 damage; that is (4000 possible war points. That is two orbitals. That is a 400k risk payout to multiple nerfs for NOT killing a tank.
 
 Brilliant. Now tanks are not a nuisance but a isk fountain. It's like laying down nanohives as a logi Nd having a mass driver use it.
 
 If you like it, please bump, BC CCP needs to see this.
 this is what i wanted but no. its not enough for the AV. they want to be able to blow us up with assault rifles.
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        |  chase rowland
 The Enclave Syndicate
 Dark Taboo
 
 16
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.24 18:49:00 -
          [22] - Quote 
 
 Beren Hurin wrote:A tank kill with 3 people inside is 300 WP rewarded. It's like 6 kills. If the tank is 250k isk and each player is wearing 15k isk in suits that's 295k isk you destroyed or about the equivalent of killing 6 ADV+ suits. Typically HAVs are worth a little more isk than that though. my tank is 2 mill.... where did you get 250k? that just the frame! and to all who think its bad becouse of farming, look at counter hacking. you get much more wp, way faster. i got 10k wp in 1 pc match becouse me and a red counter hacked all game. codebreakers man
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        |  Arkena Wyrnspire
 Turalyon 514
 Turalyon Alliance
 
 3432
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.24 18:52:00 -
          [23] - Quote 
 Not really a solution on its own.
 
 May I make a suggestion of my own?
 'What if AV weapons didn't have such fantastic power projection?'
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        |  ZDub 303
 TeamPlayers
 EoN.
 
 2091
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.24 19:00:00 -
          [24] - Quote 
 It would really help that feeling of futility you get when you almost take down a tank and dont kill it.
 
 However, fairly strict caps would be necessary to keep it from being exploited but that shouldn't be hard... seems to work well for reps.
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        |  Lurchasaurus
 SVER True Blood
 Public Disorder.
 
 1987
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.24 19:25:00 -
          [25] - Quote 
 
 CharCharOdell wrote:I feel like a lot of the QQ from AV is from NEEDING to be able to solo a tank to get WP. Perhaps, if for every 1000pts of damage, 40 wp were awarded, then it would be beneficial to the AV if tanks were stronger BC then they have a constant source of WP.
 Now tanks get a buff AND it gives AV more points than a tiny 150 for a single kill.
 
 For instance, there are battles that I'll take well over 100,000 damage; that is (4000 possible war points. That is two orbitals. That is a 400k risk payout to multiple nerfs for NOT killing a tank.
 
 Brilliant. Now tanks are not a nuisance but a isk fountain. It's like laying down nanohives as a logi Nd having a mass driver use it.
 
 If you like it, please bump, BC CCP needs to see this.
 
 Used to work this way and you even did damage to and farmed WP off the enemy MCC via turret or AV fire. There was even supposed to be a useable Anti-MCC installation. Farming was the issue.
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        |  Synbot
 Expert Intervention
 Caldari State
 
 156
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.24 19:27:00 -
          [26] - Quote 
 If AV's are gonna get WPs for damaging my vehicle, then I want WPs for damaging their dropsuit.
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        |  Lurchasaurus
 SVER True Blood
 Public Disorder.
 
 1987
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.24 19:41:00 -
          [27] - Quote 
 
 Synbot wrote:If AV's are gonna get WPs for damaging my vehicle, then I want WPs for damaging their dropsuit. 
 While you do technically have a point, the change in gameplay tankers crave is supported by damage WP rewards for vehicles while maintaining the lack of wp rewards for damaging infantry. In order for these things to work out properly without tanks or av becoming a farming asset we must balance the risk vs. reward. Try not to think so much about the direct damage outputs and such of the tank or how much health it has and think, "Is the WP reward I am currently getting for my actions properly balanced with the risk/isk investment?"
 
 If we get WP rewards for damaging infantry nothing changes, we just have a stupid amount of orbitals. If we have WP rewards for vehicle damage only now we can have durable tanks with AV not complaining about tanks not popping in one volley. In addition you can now have a viable use for LAVs and Dropships as a hit and run vehicle or change redline tank sniping prairie dogs into a viable wp source until you can eventually drop an OB on him or get him to move because he will realize he is simply feeding the enemies WP.
 
 We absolutely must have WP rewards for repping a friendly vehicle.
 
 When we are finally able to say, "Well i just called in a 2.5 million isk tank, time to slay" or "Well, i lost a tnak but it only cost 400k isk" then most problems will simply cease to be problems because risk. vs. reward is balanced.
 
 What we have now is proto homing AV nade mines that do thousands of damage and replenish faster than you can throw or swarms that dont render, home in, dont give a lock on warning, and do physically stupid turns in mid-air.
 
 All the while the tanker is looking at a 2.5 million price tag and then looks at Lai Dai prices at 15k isk and doesnt even take a weapon slot.
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        |  Void Echo
 Morsus Mihi Aperuitque Imperium
 
 1529
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.24 19:46:00 -
          [28] - Quote 
 
 Keri Starlight wrote:heh... tempting.
 It all depends about how much tanks get buffed... they will become even tastier... even tastier than bacon...
 
 It might work, I guess we could give this a try and of course it will be necessary to follow the progresses and the changes carefully and adjust the values eventually.
 
 EDIT: 40 WP for 1000 damage seems way too much, though.
 
 
 
 wen do you wana squad up?
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        |  CharCharOdell
 Shining Flame
 Amarr Empire
 
 981
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.25 00:16:00 -
          [29] - Quote 
 
 Synbot wrote:If AV's are gonna get WPs for damaging my vehicle, then I want WPs for damaging their dropsuit. 
 Why? You can kill any drop suit faster with a tank than even a duvolle, provided you hit, every time. Nothing would change. Maybe 5% of targeted infantry ever escape me, so, no, your idea would change nothing.
 
 
 
 
 
 Also, as Lurch pointed out, redline tanks are now risk farms. This also will end up rewarding tanks very well, because in a single tank v tank engagement, between 10k and 20k DMG will be wished out per tank, which means closing with other tanks for massive damage is more rewarding than rail sniping.
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        |  Fox Gaden
 Immortal Guides
 
 1133
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.25 13:00:00 -
          [30] - Quote 
 
 Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Not really a solution on its own.
 May I make a suggestion of my own?
 'What if AV weapons didn't have such fantastic power projection?'
 I believe this suggestion was partly to allow CCP to nerf AV weapons without making them unviable. As an experienced Swarm Launcher user I can confirm that my AV of choice is a bit overpowered in the current vehicle environment. The Swarm Launcher was just fine a while ago, but it has been buffed twice since then.
 
 
 ____________________________________________________________________________Immortal Guides , supporting knowledge dissemination in New Eden since August 31, 2013. | 
      
      
        |  Mortedeamor
 Hellstorm Inc
 League of Infamy
 
 282
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.25 13:04:00 -
          [31] - Quote 
 only if they buff tanks beyond former glory so full tanking av tactics are back..this this would actually be ideal because 3-4 people can chase around a tank and do their job oo i also sense wp potential harvesting by intentionally using lower end weapons on stronger tanks ..course again they would have to give us stronger tanks first
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        |  CharCharOdell
 Shining Flame
 Amarr Empire
 
 988
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.25 13:09:00 -
          [32] - Quote 
 I got OHK'd by a swarm launcher yesterday. Didn't have my hardeners on and invisible swarms do >5000 damage and i spontaneously combust.
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        |  Fox Gaden
 Immortal Guides
 
 1133
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.25 15:15:00 -
          [33] - Quote 
 
 Synbot wrote:If AV's are gonna get WPs for damaging my vehicle, then I want WPs for damaging their dropsuit. I think perhaps you may have missed the point, that if AV only gets points from killing your vehicle, then CCP must insure that your vehicle remains easy to kill. Dropsuits are already easy to kill, therefor it is not necessary to get points just for damaging them.
 
 
 ____________________________________________________________________________Immortal Guides , supporting knowledge dissemination in New Eden since August 31, 2013. | 
      
      
        |  Duran Lex
 Amarr Templars
 Amarr Empire
 
 309
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.25 15:32:00 -
          [34] - Quote 
 
 CharCharOdell wrote:I feel like a lot of the QQ from AV is from NEEDING to be able to solo a tank to get WP. Perhaps, if for every 1000pts of damage, 40 wp were awarded, then it would be beneficial to the AV if tanks were stronger BC then they have a constant source of WP.
 Now tanks get a buff AND it gives AV more points than a tiny 150 for a single kill.
 
 For instance, there are battles that I'll take well over 100,000 damage; that is (4000 possible war points. That is two orbitals. That is a 400k risk payout to multiple nerfs for NOT killing a tank.
 
 Brilliant. Now tanks are not a nuisance but a isk fountain. It's like laying down nanohives as a logi Nd having a mass driver use it.
 
 If you like it, please bump, BC CCP needs to see this.
 
 No....the WP isn't the reason for QQ.
 
 That's why we all know you are full of ****.
 
 You want tanks to become god mode again, and you still havn't tried out AV yourself to see what the problems even are.
 
 Just go sit in your corner until the vehicle patches come out, so you can then QQ on the forums some more and "quit the game"
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        |  KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
 Brutor Vanguard
 Minmatar Republic
 
 6189
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.25 15:34:00 -
          [35] - Quote 
 Use to be like that back i closed beta, I preferred it that way.
 AV should be rewarded for keeping vehicles at bay, not just dstroying them; Destroying is not the only useful thing you can do as AV.
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        |  CuuCH Crusher
 Forge Gun Mafia
 
 238
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.25 15:51:00 -
          [36] - Quote 
 So basically every time I fire my FG, I get 40 WP? I don't have a problem with that, but it would be unfair for non av players. Maybe bump it up to 3000 damage points.
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        |  Zero Harpuia
 Turalyon 514
 Turalyon Alliance
 
 1024
 
 
      | Posted - 2013.09.25 16:11:00 -
          [37] - Quote 
 Please search before posting, Mr. Aznable.
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