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CharCharOdell
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
975
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 17:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
I feel like a lot of the QQ from AV is from NEEDING to be able to solo a tank to get WP. Perhaps, if for every 1000pts of damage, 40 wp were awarded, then it would be beneficial to the AV if tanks were stronger BC then they have a constant source of WP.
Now tanks get a buff AND it gives AV more points than a tiny 150 for a single kill.
For instance, there are battles that I'll take well over 100,000 damage; that is (4000 possible war points. That is two orbitals. That is a 400k risk payout to multiple nerfs for NOT killing a tank.
Brilliant. Now tanks are not a nuisance but a isk fountain. It's like laying down nanohives as a logi Nd having a mass driver use it.
If you like it, please bump, BC CCP needs to see this. |
Xender17
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
678
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 17:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
CharCharOdell wrote:I feel like a lot of the QQ from AV is from NEEDING to be able to solo a tank to get WP. Perhaps, if for every 1000pts of damage, 40 wp were awarded, then it would be beneficial to the AV if tanks were stronger BC then they have a constant source of WP.
Now tanks get a buff AND it gives AV more points than a tiny 150 for a single kill.
For instance, there are battles that I'll take well over 100,000 damage; that is (4000 possible war points. That is two orbitals. That is a 400k risk payout to multiple nerfs for NOT killing a tank.
Brilliant. Now tanks are not a nuisance but a isk fountain. It's like laying down nanohives as a logi Nd having a mass driver use it.
If you like it, please bump, BC CCP needs to see this. ... 1000? So 80 points every volley of swarms?
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Void Echo
Morsus Mihi Aperuitque Imperium
1524
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 17:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
i can see it now..... 50 swarms coming at me from behind and invisible..... so i don't know there coming until i see all my HP drop down in less than 3 seconds... |
Keri Starlight
Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
471
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 17:55:00 -
[4] - Quote
heh... tempting.
It all depends about how much tanks get buffed... they will become even tastier... even tastier than bacon...
It might work, I guess we could give this a try and of course it will be necessary to follow the progresses and the changes carefully and adjust the values eventually.
EDIT: 40 WP for 1000 damage seems way too much, though. |
Parson Atreides
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
708
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 17:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
It actually used to work like that a while ago. Not sure why it was changed. |
LuckyLuke Wargan
HavoK Core RISE of LEGION
232
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 17:57:00 -
[6] - Quote
I like it, the reason being that I am tired of people stilling your kill with a fracking AR in that short frame window vehicles often have after being hit with an AV weapon... to give an exemple (beacause it is something that non AVers don't seem to realize) I shoot swarms at a dropship, drophips catch on fire and has a few seconds before crashing (gives a chance for crew to escape), here come mister AR, shooting a few bullets into it, effectively being the last person hitting it, dropships crash, and I get the f*kitten* assist and they get the kill... this is an issue I rarely see address, but is truely an annoyance for me when I try to play AV... and it's definitely not fair that after chasing and HAV all over the map that the kill is awarded to someone with a fracking AR. |
Melchiah ARANeAE
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
32
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Posted - 2013.09.24 17:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
I'd say 15 wp for every 1000 damage dealt. That'd still be 90-120 WP from a well fit tank. |
Muud Kipz
Elevated Technologies
60
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 17:58:00 -
[8] - Quote
Xender17 wrote:CharCharOdell wrote:I feel like a lot of the QQ from AV is from NEEDING to be able to solo a tank to get WP. Perhaps, if for every 1000pts of damage, 40 wp were awarded, then it would be beneficial to the AV if tanks were stronger BC then they have a constant source of WP.
Now tanks get a buff AND it gives AV more points than a tiny 150 for a single kill.
For instance, there are battles that I'll take well over 100,000 damage; that is (4000 possible war points. That is two orbitals. That is a 400k risk payout to multiple nerfs for NOT killing a tank.
Brilliant. Now tanks are not a nuisance but a isk fountain. It's like laying down nanohives as a logi Nd having a mass driver use it.
If you like it, please bump, BC CCP needs to see this. ... 1000? So 80 points every volley of swarms?
So the numbers are a bit off, that's not the point here. It's still a good idea- AV is meant to (sometimes) neutralize tanks, and this doesn't (and shouldn't) mean destruction every time. If I spawn in with an AV fit and manage to damage/chase away a well-fitted blaster Maddy, that was a valuable action and should be rewarded. +1 or signed or whatever. |
Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
1131
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 18:02:00 -
[9] - Quote
Since driving away a tank is often as effective as actually killing a tank, I suppose this makes some sense. I would reduce the payout to 10 WP per 1000 HP though. There would still be the rewards for Kill and Kill Assist. Ideally a tank kill would require the combined efforts of 2 or 3 AV Infantry.
And since this is a Tank/AV thread I feel obligated to shamelessly promote my guide: Fox Guide: Swarm Launcher, Unleashing the Swarm
____________________________________________________________________________ Immortal Guides, supporting knowledge dissemination in New Eden since August 31, 2013. |
Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
2015
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Posted - 2013.09.24 18:04:00 -
[10] - Quote
Faction Warfare Farming |
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Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
1683
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 18:05:00 -
[11] - Quote
A tank kill with 3 people inside is 300 WP rewarded. It's like 6 kills. If the tank is 250k isk and each player is wearing 15k isk in suits that's 295k isk you destroyed or about the equivalent of killing 6 ADV+ suits. Typically HAVs are worth a little more isk than that though. |
Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
2015
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 18:09:00 -
[12] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:A tank kill with 3 people inside is 300 WP rewarded. It's like 6 kills. If the tank is 250k isk and each player is wearing 15k isk in suits that's 295k isk you destroyed or about the equivalent of killing 6 ADV+ suits. Typically HAVs are worth a little more isk than that though. Typically a lot more. 250 K is a Soma with Militia Modules |
Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
1131
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 18:11:00 -
[13] - Quote
LuckyLuke Wargan wrote:I like it, the reason being that I am tired of people stilling your kill with a fracking AR in that short frame window vehicles often have after being hit with an AV weapon... to give an exemple (beacause it is something that non AVers don't seem to realize) I shoot swarms at a dropship, drophips catch on fire and has a few seconds before crashing (gives a chance for crew to escape), here come mister AR, shooting a few bullets into it, effectively being the last person hitting it, dropships crash, and I get the f*kitten* assist and they get the kill... this is an issue I rarely see address, but is truely an annoyance for me when I try to play AV... and it's definitely not fair that after chasing and HAV all over the map that the kill is awarded to someone with a fracking AR. AR users are not always to blame. Most Dropships die from impact damage, which is why AVers usually only get Assists. I try to send an extra valley after a dropship when it is falling in flames in hopes of getting the kill before it crashes.
I think HAVGÇÖs and LAVGÇÖs are different, as I usually get the kill on them.
Of course there are times when people are lucky and get a shot on a mostly dead tank. I have heard of a Sniper getting a HAV kill.
____________________________________________________________________________ Immortal Guides, supporting knowledge dissemination in New Eden since August 31, 2013. |
CharCharOdell
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
975
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 18:13:00 -
[14] - Quote
Basically, best idea ever, even if numbers are off. |
Sgt Kirk
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
1952
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 18:15:00 -
[15] - Quote
you used to in a galaxy far far away from here. Back when I actually enjoyed this game but it was probably because it was still new to me.
With nothing else much to do and not being able to build my character lore wise as a former Gallente, Black Eagle Agent (which was the major fun for me for some reason) I lost interest.
A lot of my stamina drained back when armored suits were shite and MD ruled the day.
I'll take a break this month and see if the fun comes back in 1.6 but by then the ps4 will probably kill this game for me if I get it. |
LuckyLuke Wargan
HavoK Core RISE of LEGION
232
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 18:16:00 -
[16] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:LuckyLuke Wargan wrote:I like it, the reason being that I am tired of people stilling your kill with a fracking AR in that short frame window vehicles often have after being hit with an AV weapon... to give an exemple (beacause it is something that non AVers don't seem to realize) I shoot swarms at a dropship, drophips catch on fire and has a few seconds before crashing (gives a chance for crew to escape), here come mister AR, shooting a few bullets into it, effectively being the last person hitting it, dropships crash, and I get the f*kitten* assist and they get the kill... this is an issue I rarely see address, but is truely an annoyance for me when I try to play AV... and it's definitely not fair that after chasing and HAV all over the map that the kill is awarded to someone with a fracking AR. AR users are not always to blame. Most Dropships die from impact damage, which is why AVers usually only get Assists. I try to send an extra valley after a dropship when it is falling in flames in hopes of getting the kill before it crashes. I think HAVGÇÖs and LAVGÇÖs are different, as I usually get the kill on them. Of course there are times when people are lucky and get a shot on a mostly dead tank. I have heard of a Sniper getting a HAV kill. ____________________________________________________________________________ Immortal Guides, supporting knowledge dissemination in New Eden since August 31, 2013. I see what you are saying, it's still an issue though. |
Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
1413
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 18:17:00 -
[17] - Quote
I think this idea has been proposed a few times in the last couple of days... |
Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
870
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 18:18:00 -
[18] - Quote
Parson Atreides wrote:It actually used to work like that a while ago. Not sure why it was changed.
Because it had no wp cap. |
Odiain Suliis
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
176
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 18:29:00 -
[19] - Quote
If there isn't cap implemented in this thing, it will be abused to farm WP's. Just arrnage a tanker to sit and repp it self and have few folks damage it and you have a easy WP machine to farm.
Or even better yet, put infantry logis repping it with BRD-5's and you have almost as much repp landing per logi as a one heavy IG-L repper. This way logi gets his trige bonus and swarmers get their bonus. Or tanker can fit max HP tank on it to accomodate more swarmers.
Nice idea, but flawed. |
Awry Barux
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
107
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 18:37:00 -
[20] - Quote
Odiain Suliis wrote:If there isn't cap implemented in this thing, it will be abused to farm WP's. Just arrnage a tanker to sit and repp it self and have few folks damage it and you have a easy WP machine to farm.
Or even better yet, put infantry logis repping it with BRD-5's and you have almost as much repp landing per logi as a one heavy IG-L repper. This way logi gets his trige bonus and swarmers get their bonus. Or tanker can fit max HP tank on it to accomodate more swarmers.
Nice idea, but flawed.
I don't really see this being a problem. All it takes to mess up that setup is one unexpected AFG, or a sniper, or both. Unless someone manages to fill an entire FW team with people committed to exploiting this, it's not going to really work.
Besides, I don't see what the big deal is if a few people put a lot of effort into farming WPs. I couldn't care less if someone gets 2.5k WP / match by farming it. If they want to sacrifice any fun to earn about 1k extra SP per 10-20 minute match, fine, but that's no reason to reject changes that would seriously alleviate the complaints of many AVers. |
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chase rowland
The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo
16
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 18:43:00 -
[21] - Quote
CharCharOdell wrote:I feel like a lot of the QQ from AV is from NEEDING to be able to solo a tank to get WP. Perhaps, if for every 1000pts of damage, 40 wp were awarded, then it would be beneficial to the AV if tanks were stronger BC then they have a constant source of WP.
Now tanks get a buff AND it gives AV more points than a tiny 150 for a single kill.
For instance, there are battles that I'll take well over 100,000 damage; that is (4000 possible war points. That is two orbitals. That is a 400k risk payout to multiple nerfs for NOT killing a tank.
Brilliant. Now tanks are not a nuisance but a isk fountain. It's like laying down nanohives as a logi Nd having a mass driver use it.
If you like it, please bump, BC CCP needs to see this. this is what i wanted but no. its not enough for the AV. they want to be able to blow us up with assault rifles. |
chase rowland
The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo
16
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 18:49:00 -
[22] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:A tank kill with 3 people inside is 300 WP rewarded. It's like 6 kills. If the tank is 250k isk and each player is wearing 15k isk in suits that's 295k isk you destroyed or about the equivalent of killing 6 ADV+ suits. Typically HAVs are worth a little more isk than that though. my tank is 2 mill.... where did you get 250k? that just the frame! and to all who think its bad becouse of farming, look at counter hacking. you get much more wp, way faster. i got 10k wp in 1 pc match becouse me and a red counter hacked all game. codebreakers man |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance
3432
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 18:52:00 -
[23] - Quote
Not really a solution on its own.
May I make a suggestion of my own? 'What if AV weapons didn't have such fantastic power projection?' |
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers EoN.
2091
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 19:00:00 -
[24] - Quote
It would really help that feeling of futility you get when you almost take down a tank and dont kill it.
However, fairly strict caps would be necessary to keep it from being exploited but that shouldn't be hard... seems to work well for reps. |
Lurchasaurus
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
1987
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 19:25:00 -
[25] - Quote
CharCharOdell wrote:I feel like a lot of the QQ from AV is from NEEDING to be able to solo a tank to get WP. Perhaps, if for every 1000pts of damage, 40 wp were awarded, then it would be beneficial to the AV if tanks were stronger BC then they have a constant source of WP.
Now tanks get a buff AND it gives AV more points than a tiny 150 for a single kill.
For instance, there are battles that I'll take well over 100,000 damage; that is (4000 possible war points. That is two orbitals. That is a 400k risk payout to multiple nerfs for NOT killing a tank.
Brilliant. Now tanks are not a nuisance but a isk fountain. It's like laying down nanohives as a logi Nd having a mass driver use it.
If you like it, please bump, BC CCP needs to see this.
Used to work this way and you even did damage to and farmed WP off the enemy MCC via turret or AV fire. There was even supposed to be a useable Anti-MCC installation. Farming was the issue. |
Synbot
Expert Intervention Caldari State
156
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 19:27:00 -
[26] - Quote
If AV's are gonna get WPs for damaging my vehicle, then I want WPs for damaging their dropsuit. |
Lurchasaurus
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
1987
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 19:41:00 -
[27] - Quote
Synbot wrote:If AV's are gonna get WPs for damaging my vehicle, then I want WPs for damaging their dropsuit.
While you do technically have a point, the change in gameplay tankers crave is supported by damage WP rewards for vehicles while maintaining the lack of wp rewards for damaging infantry. In order for these things to work out properly without tanks or av becoming a farming asset we must balance the risk vs. reward. Try not to think so much about the direct damage outputs and such of the tank or how much health it has and think, "Is the WP reward I am currently getting for my actions properly balanced with the risk/isk investment?"
If we get WP rewards for damaging infantry nothing changes, we just have a stupid amount of orbitals. If we have WP rewards for vehicle damage only now we can have durable tanks with AV not complaining about tanks not popping in one volley. In addition you can now have a viable use for LAVs and Dropships as a hit and run vehicle or change redline tank sniping prairie dogs into a viable wp source until you can eventually drop an OB on him or get him to move because he will realize he is simply feeding the enemies WP.
We absolutely must have WP rewards for repping a friendly vehicle.
When we are finally able to say, "Well i just called in a 2.5 million isk tank, time to slay" or "Well, i lost a tnak but it only cost 400k isk" then most problems will simply cease to be problems because risk. vs. reward is balanced.
What we have now is proto homing AV nade mines that do thousands of damage and replenish faster than you can throw or swarms that dont render, home in, dont give a lock on warning, and do physically stupid turns in mid-air.
All the while the tanker is looking at a 2.5 million price tag and then looks at Lai Dai prices at 15k isk and doesnt even take a weapon slot. |
Void Echo
Morsus Mihi Aperuitque Imperium
1529
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 19:46:00 -
[28] - Quote
Keri Starlight wrote:heh... tempting.
It all depends about how much tanks get buffed... they will become even tastier... even tastier than bacon...
It might work, I guess we could give this a try and of course it will be necessary to follow the progresses and the changes carefully and adjust the values eventually.
EDIT: 40 WP for 1000 damage seems way too much, though.
wen do you wana squad up? |
CharCharOdell
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
981
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 00:16:00 -
[29] - Quote
Synbot wrote:If AV's are gonna get WPs for damaging my vehicle, then I want WPs for damaging their dropsuit.
Why? You can kill any drop suit faster with a tank than even a duvolle, provided you hit, every time. Nothing would change. Maybe 5% of targeted infantry ever escape me, so, no, your idea would change nothing.
Also, as Lurch pointed out, redline tanks are now risk farms. This also will end up rewarding tanks very well, because in a single tank v tank engagement, between 10k and 20k DMG will be wished out per tank, which means closing with other tanks for massive damage is more rewarding than rail sniping. |
Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
1133
|
Posted - 2013.09.25 13:00:00 -
[30] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Not really a solution on its own.
May I make a suggestion of my own? 'What if AV weapons didn't have such fantastic power projection?' I believe this suggestion was partly to allow CCP to nerf AV weapons without making them unviable. As an experienced Swarm Launcher user I can confirm that my AV of choice is a bit overpowered in the current vehicle environment. The Swarm Launcher was just fine a while ago, but it has been buffed twice since then.
____________________________________________________________________________ Immortal Guides, supporting knowledge dissemination in New Eden since August 31, 2013. |
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