full shield and armour on my madrugar then 1 adv assault minmatarr suit with wykomi later i get killed. gg ccp for makeing so that only 1 guy with a wykomi can kill a tank from a spire and make cover usless for us tankers.

invest practically 21 mill sp into tanks and still 1 guy with a adv assult suit + wykomi can still kill me in 3-4 volleys. oh and lets not forget that swarms fire quicker now...... so what is my repair mod supossed to do exactly?

full shield and armour on my madrugar then 1 adv assault minmatarr suit with wykomi later i get killed. gg ccp for makeing so that only 1 guy with a wykomi can kill a tank from a spire and make cover usless for us tankers.

If it makes you feel better you're protected form snipers on spires which I promise you is much more common than proto swarns camping the spires. If I were to complain about them then people would tell me to just go up there and kill them or deal with it myself. Just because you want to run your tank doesn't make it any less your responsibility to handle spire campers.

fit your tank properly, it was already shown plenty of times that a properly fit tank can endure 6 missiles volleys. plenty of time to get into cover.

while vehicles are indeed in a need of a change remind that he is using a proto weapon against your non proto vehicles.

also, fit your tank properly, it was already shown plenty of times that a properly fit tank can endure 6 missile volleys. plenty of time to get into cover.

forge guns on the other hand, there is no escape.

i have 2 carpace armour hardners, 180mm polycrystiline plate and heavey effecient armour rep. you tell me thats not fit properly.

if thats the case why are you driving a tank if there is no effective cover. only an idiot drives a vehicle when there is no cover.

well I dont know much about tank fittings but a guy here in Dust Uni has a fit that survives 6 missiles volleys, thats 15s of continous shooting from a single guy, I think this is plenty of time to get into cover. suits die in 2 seconds yet they still manage to get out often.

and as I said, forge guns is a bigger problem than swarms imho.

you try survivng from double complex wykomi swarms.
std swarms are lol.
adv swarms are decent
proto swarms are just lol you have a vehcile?

i have 2 carpace armour hardners, 180mm polycrystiline plate and heavey effecient armour rep. you tell me thats not fit properly.

there is cover.... when the av guy has the balls to run around on the ground and try and take me oput that way.

Says the guy in the 50 ton steel box to the infantry running without a primary. Let's not forget that the swarm launchers only job is to take out vehicles (and installations). It can literally do nothing else than this one thing. If you skill into it all the way, you shouldn't not be able to fulfill it's purpose. Tanks should not require an entire squad's (more than 1/3 of the enemy team) attention to be destroyed.

Also consider this alternative: Instead of implying it's unfair that it doesn't take 2-6 people to take out one of your tanks, think about running multiple tanks simultaneously as part of the necessary strategy for running tanks.

Are you implying that running 2-6 tanks simultaneously somehow makes them harder to kill?

invest practically 21 mill sp into tanks and still 1 guy with a adv assult suit + wykomi can still kill me in 3-4 volleys. oh and lets not forget that swarms fire quicker now...... so what is my repair mod supossed to do exactly?

if my tank costs 1.5 million and you say its not fit properly?
2 carpace armour hardners
180mm polycrystiline plate
heavey i-gl armour rep
15% pwr gird enhancment
2 std cycle missiles
scattered ion cannon
heat sink 2
15%sheild resistence amplifer.
iam preety sure it should take more than 1 person to kill a tank that cost 1.5 mill.

this is actually the case.

remote repairers + hardeners can by cycled and if they are on cooldown the other tank can step in and start to take damage.

Because if it would not possible to kill a tank solo, tanks would dominate and a FPS would come down to who can field the most tanks faster.

The whole balancing in this game has to be around 1vs1 fights regardless what get fielded. Because we have limited team sizes. I would agree if you would need more people to drive a tank so if you need three people to operate a tank tha it would be fair to require three people to kill a tank....

It IS possible to kill a tank solo.


We use another tank. Otherwise, teamwork is your friend.

Think Chromosome Heavies. Basically undefeatable 1v1 against anything but another heavy.

Are you implying that running 2-6 tanks simultaneously somehow makes them harder to kill? In the end, it's just more WP for the AVer. Might take a couple more guys, depending on the quality and the tactics, but in the end, two PRO AVers should be able to nuke any number of tanks. No matter how good the tankers' fittings and tactics.

The primary difference between tanks and AV, too, is that AVers have skills that are cross-compatible with profitable playstyles. A tanker has HAVs, which are unprofitable, DSes, which are worse, and LAVs, which are nearly as bad as HAVs, in that they're cheaper, less likely to die, but unable to earn WP. (Honourable mention goes to Limbus, here)

And your comment about swarms not being able to fulfill their purpose, how they're only capable of killing vehicles?

They're about as versatile as a sledgehammer, that's true. So are tanks. Please show me how many points a tank has capped.

I'll wait.

You're kidding right? Is it not obvious that trying to kill 2-10 tanks would be harder than killing 1? Let's see...

1. More than one target is harder to coordinate between AV players or random blueberries with MLT swarms.
2. While one tank repairs itself another tank can step in to fight (as has been stated already).
3. Divided attention means divided damage.
4. It's hard enough to survive attacking 1 tank while it's infantry swarm you let alone 2.

Also if you're talking about 2 pro AVers I may as well assume you mean fully proto AV with pro tactics. Now how about we assume we have the same level of tankers? If two pro tankers can't handle to AVers then they deserve to lose their ISK. What else do you need on your side?

As for the cross compatibility issue of course vehicle users should have to specialize in vehicles. Before the murder taxi was fixed it was ridiculously easy to rack 10-20 kills without loosing a logi jeep. Tanks are still able to mow down entire enemy teams and so are dropships. If you expect giant payout like 20-0 sweep then you also need to accept big risk. I don't personally like that risk so I run ADV dropsuits and expect to get killed often with little payoff. If you're afraid that in some games it won't just be a walk in the park mowing down teams and you might lose your investment occasionally then you skilled into the wrong role.

Tanks are also versatile, even more so then AV. What can an AV grenade kill? Vehicles. What can a swarm kill? Vehicles and enemy installations. The only versatility comes from the forge gun because it can kill infantry but only if you spec into heavy suits can it be done effectively. Tanks can kill anything that can be killed. Rail tanks can snipe from on top of spires too or in mountains. There are tanks that just bolt when I run at them with AV grenades just like the logi jeeps do. It's true that a tank can't hack a point but do you know who can? The driver. Don't act like someone running swarm launchers have some crazy advantage in ability to earn WP because you're too much of a baby to get out of your tank. "How many points a tank has capped"... Psh... How about you tell me how many teams a swarm launcher has redlined an entire team?

If it makes you feel better you're protected form snipers on spires which I promise you is much more common than proto swarns camping the spires. If I were to complain about them then people would tell me to just go up there and kill them or deal with it myself. Just because you want to run your tank doesn't make it any less your responsibility to handle spire campers.

full shield and armour on my madrugar then 1 adv assault minmatarr suit with wykomi later i get killed. gg ccp for makeing so that only 1 guy with a wykomi can kill a tank from a spire and make cover usless for us tankers.

while vehicles are indeed in a need of a change remind that he is using a proto weapon against your non proto vehicles.

also, fit your tank properly, it was already shown plenty of times that a properly fit tank can endure 6 missile volleys. plenty of time to get into cover.

forge guns on the other hand, there is no escape.

To look cool.


The major icing on the cake is that they BUFFED the swarms before 1.5 (the vehicle fix that never happened)
So now, not only are vehicles not getting fixed but these Machine gun swarm launchers have another month of roaming the universe.

Eugh, I put up my armoured LAV for a month because of this. It's killing me that I can't pull it out for another month :(

Apparently you're really bad at communicating with your squad and focussing fire? And also, given that no matter what countermeasures we use, even multiple vehicles spider-tanking, we can be alpha'd and out-repped, it'd be shocking if those AVers didn't smack us six ways to Sunday.

I don't expect to go 20-0. Sometimes I go 30-0, sometimes I go 17-1, sometimes I get four kills and get massacred by an Ishukone. Sometimes I don't run my tank. And also, given that LLAVs are no longer viable in that sense, it's no longer a relevant argument. And a tank can only 'mow down an entire team' if no-one's trying to kill it. Even the most half-hearted attempt with an MLT swarm will give a tanker pause.


lolwut? There are five AV weapons in this game; AV grenades, Flux grenades, Forge Guns, Swarm Launchers, and Plasma Cannons. Three of those five are multipurpose, and Swarms have a range of 400m. Congratulations on recognising that a swarm launcher can't redline infantry! Nor can an AR, given that the odds of one person redlining an entire team are NIL. But a swarm launcher can redline members of a team more permanently than any weapon besides a forge gun, and keep them there more effectively than anything but a sniper or again, a forge sniper.

And no. I have a crazy advantage in WP gain, simply because I can kill everything. I also have the greatest risk. Although, that's like saying 'Logi has a crazy advantage in WP gain over me'. What it MEANS is that I can't push an objective solo. I am nothing more than a slayer. My contributions to the team ONLY come in concert with the rest of the team.




The bottom line? If I'd invested all my SP into Medium suit AR, I'd be dramatically more effective, and profitable. I don't want my tanks to be more effective. I want them to not force me to grind for an hour to pay off one death. And unlike infantry, the only way to profit in tanks is, ironically, using high-tier modules. Which are exorbitantly expensive.