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p q
Zylak's Used Clones
12
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Posted - 2013.09.17 13:18:00 -
[1] - Quote
The 3 most common vehicles in an infantry engagement today are the armed wheeled vehicle, the tank, and the attack helicopter. I really don't think the dropship reflects the attack helicopter's role; it is a transport with some guns. The "Eve attack chopper" need not have rotors, but should pilot basicly the same way - simpler than an airplane. Make it a 2 seat vehicle (as to not step on the dropship's toes), the pilot has a forward facing weapon (missile launcher is standard today) and the gunner has a turret. Whatever this vehicle looks like, it should control like a helicopter; "rotor" throttle (up/down, L1/L2), "rotor" tilt (left stick, forward/back/strafe, just like infantry) and rotate craft (right stick, up and down unused). The nose tilts down with forward motion and is related to speed, vice versa for reverse motion. The turret position would have to be related to the overall design but as long as it can fire forward in an arc and tilt up/down it is useful. Please consider adding this essential battlefield tool. One last note - make sure the pilot, who fires a "dummy" gun, can use a 1st person perspective or he'll never hit anything |
Robert JD Niewiadomski
NULLIMPEX INC
528
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Posted - 2013.09.17 13:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
There are assault dropships in DUST. With pilot controlled turret... There is no militia version. You have to skill into them. Look into your skill tree (or skill list) |
Evolution-7
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
71
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Posted - 2013.09.17 15:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
helicopter - dropship |
Valeryy Igunen
Nexus Marines
68
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Posted - 2013.09.17 15:16:00 -
[4] - Quote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dq0OKaTEMPQ maybe that's what you are talking about? :) |
Dimitri Rascolovitch
The Immortal Knights
40
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Posted - 2013.09.17 15:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
well as far as i know, there are 3 very distinct roles for aircraft, the heavy fighters i.e. bombers or jets, the light fighters i.e. helicopters and again jets, and the transport craft currently known as flying coffins or derpships |
CharCharOdell
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
838
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Posted - 2013.09.17 19:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
The drop ship is a utility VTOL aircraft (UH-1, UH-64). We still don't have attack VTOL (AH-1, AH-64) |
Arx Ardashir
Imperium Aeternum
221
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Posted - 2013.09.17 22:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
p q wrote:pilot basicly the same way - simpler than an airplane. Lawl.
Anyways, the Attack Dropship can fire forward and can tilt up and down and all other directions. It is what you're looking for. Unless you're just asking for easier controls. |
Arx Ardashir
Imperium Aeternum
221
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Posted - 2013.09.17 22:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
CharCharOdell wrote:The drop ship is a utility VTOL aircraft (UH-1, UH-64). We still don't have attack VTOL (AH-1, AH-64) UH-64? You mean the UH-60 Blackhawk? |
S0Iid Snak3
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.09.17 22:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
CharCharOdell wrote:The drop ship is a utility VTOL aircraft (UH-1, UH-64). We still don't have attack VTOL (AH-1, AH-64) Assault DS? |
p q
THE OWL SOCIETY DARKSTAR ARMY
13
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Posted - 2013.09.20 14:03:00 -
[10] - Quote
I don't think the dropship controls like a helicopter. If you like those sorts of sims you know what I'm talking about. I don't think any of the dropships really fill an attack helicopter role, more importantly. I squad with a Viper pilot who feels the same. For now, I would be satisfied with customizable controls for vehicles (and infantry) and pretend I'm in an attack helicopter ha ha. The turret must be able to fire forward to be similar to an attack helicop- I don't think any dropship has that... correct? |
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CLONE117
Planetary Response Organization Test Friends Please Ignore
368
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Posted - 2013.09.20 15:09:00 -
[11] - Quote
the dropship is our helicopter...
it just lacks the firepower and maneuverability.. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic
6072
|
Posted - 2013.09.20 15:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
Assault dropship specialization has a pilot-controlled turret. |
Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
267
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Posted - 2013.09.20 15:26:00 -
[13] - Quote
p q wrote:I don't think the dropship controls like a helicopter. If you like those sorts of sims you know what I'm talking about.
Of course the dropship won't handle like a helicopter. Helicopters have a rotor on top of the craft. The dropships have thrusters below/beside the vehicle. It would obviously handle more like a harrier or other VTOL jet during take off/while hovering.
And a helicopter would be incredibly impractical in Dust as having a rotor would just be a giant weakness to the craft (not to mention be a lot slower than the dropship). |
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
204
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Posted - 2013.09.20 20:58:00 -
[14] - Quote
I think we just need to buff the small turrets so they're actually useful. |
Mossellia Delt
Militaires Sans Jeux
335
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Posted - 2013.09.20 21:43:00 -
[15] - Quote
We have dropships as everyone else is pointing out.
To Sana, small missiles are useful and in 1.3 small blasters worked, rails never worked.
The only problem with dropships as they currently are, are; HP, WP's, collition damage, auto flying forwards (when the thrusters move) when hovering.
To Valeryy, that video made me cringe with how bad his dropship and his piloting was. |
p q
THE OWL SOCIETY DARKSTAR ARMY
13
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Posted - 2013.09.21 08:25:00 -
[16] - Quote
So I'm glad at least some of you agree that a dropship does not control like a helicopter. And I will repeat that it need not have rotors. Thrusters are more Eve-ish. I'm thinking of a light craft that can hover in one spot, has a small 360 degree blaster turret on the bottom maybe, def a forward weapon for the pilot. It would depend on manuverability, speed and cunning more than armor. Could be a feast for a swarm launcher if the pilot isn't slick enough to evade the 2nd salvo but hey that's the world of attack "helicopters". |
p q
THE OWL SOCIETY DARKSTAR ARMY
13
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Posted - 2013.09.21 08:34:00 -
[17] - Quote
This would be a craft that engages briefly and then hauls arse to reshield. Many of these craft would die because the pilot gets greedy and stays in a bad spot for an extra few seconds shooting into a building or trying to get a bead on a dodgey scout sniper. Also useful to drop off a single passenger (multiple passengers is for dropship - let them keep the one thing they are useful for as they wait for a dropship buff... sigh...) |
Mossellia Delt
Militaires Sans Jeux
355
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 08:35:00 -
[18] - Quote
p q wrote:So I'm glad at least some of you agree that a dropship does not control like a helicopter. And I will repeat that it need not have rotors. Thrusters are more Eve-ish. I'm thinking of a light craft that can hover in one spot, has a small 360 degree blaster turret on the bottom maybe, def a forward weapon for the pilot. It would depend on manuverability, speed and cunning more than armor. Could be a feast for a swarm launcher if the pilot isn't slick enough to evade the 2nd salvo but hey that's the world of attack "helicopters".
The dropship is already close enough to this. You also cant avoid swarms with an Afterburner since they're invisible and by the time you take the first hit the 2nd and 3rd are on their way.
Afterburners are also horrible, dont fit them. |
2100 Angels
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
269
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Posted - 2013.09.21 08:40:00 -
[19] - Quote
p q wrote:The 3 most common vehicles in an infantry engagement today are the armed wheeled vehicle, the tank, and the attack helicopter. I really don't think the dropship reflects the attack helicopter's role; it is a transport with some guns. The "Eve attack chopper" need not have rotors, but should pilot basicly the same way - simpler than an airplane. Make it a 2 seat vehicle (as to not step on the dropship's toes), the pilot has a forward facing weapon (missile launcher is standard today) and the gunner has a turret. Whatever this vehicle looks like, it should control like a helicopter; "rotor" throttle (up/down, L1/L2), "rotor" tilt (left stick, forward/back/strafe, just like infantry) and rotate craft (right stick, up and down unused). The nose tilts down with forward motion and is related to speed, vice versa for reverse motion. The turret position would have to be related to the overall design but as long as it can fire forward in an arc and tilt up/down it is useful. Please consider adding this essential battlefield tool. One last note - make sure the pilot, who fires a "dummy" gun, can use a 1st person perspective or he'll never hit anything
hahahaha.
I disagree with your premise that the dropship cannot be used in much the same way as an attack helicoptor, at least in a CAS role (it's pretty useless in terms of strafing or attack runs). I have seen a number of very skilled dropship pilots accomplish this, with the help of experienced gunners operating proto blasters. I also find your specification that it act like it has rotors despite that it "need not have rotors" confusing... It should behave the way the design indicates it should behave. Currently the dropship seems to operate using some form of thrust vectoring, which is in keeping with it's design.
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KalOfTheRathi
Black Phoenix Mercenaries
737
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Posted - 2013.09.21 11:29:00 -
[20] - Quote
p q, you need to be around some good Drop Ship pilots. Seriously. I know several, not me, that can do everything you want now. It takes practice, time, ISK and SP. That and being prepared to die a lot while learning. The good news is the better you are in the beginning the less you will die nor will you be such an ISK sink.
The controls, all controls, need to be customizable. I have a KB/M connected but only use the KB for text messages in chat and email. The mouse is useful if I am just hanging back and sniping. Others swear by them, but until we can reassign the keys the layout doesn't work for me. I would love to be able to reset the buttons on the DS3 or use a six button USB controller that I have.
No plans mentioned from CCP/Shanghai for allowing any of those changes though. |
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p q
THE OWL SOCIETY DARKSTAR ARMY
13
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Posted - 2013.09.21 13:17:00 -
[21] - Quote
I challenge any who think a dropship can be used as an attack vehicle to prove it. In almost 10 million skill points worth of battle, I have been killed by a dropship turret once that I am aware of. Once. Killed by an AR? Hundreds of times. Mostly dropships just die; easy war points. If anyone here thinks the dropship is equal to an attack "helicopter" show it to the rest of us cuz nobody fears the "attack dropship". And, to address other comments, yes, a mouse/keyboard is an advantage, and seeing as how D514 is trying to bring in console players that play "for free" to start I am pretty sure they don't have a mouse/keyboard on their ps3. Most don't have a pc - it's the smartphone/cloud era now. CCP had no choice but to allow the mouse to get off the ground with Dust, but to entice new "free" console players to play more than 5 games the mouse has gotta go to corp battles only or something similar. We need new players, who use ps3 controllers, to stick around, and it ain't happenin'. Player count may have even dropped in the last month. It sucks to us "old heads", but we gotta make it console/noob friendly right now if we want a game we enjoy to survive. |
p q
THE OWL SOCIETY DARKSTAR ARMY
13
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 13:19:00 -
[22] - Quote
I challenge any who think a dropship can be used as an attack vehicle to prove it. In almost 10 million skill points worth of battle, I have been killed by a dropship turret once that I am aware of. Once. Killed by an AR? Hundreds of times. Mostly dropships just die; easy war points. If anyone here thinks the dropship is equal to an attack "helicopter" show it to the rest of us cuz nobody fears the "attack dropship". And, to address other comments, yes, a mouse/keyboard is an advantage, and seeing as how D514 is trying to bring in console players that play "for free" to start I am pretty sure they don't have a mouse/keyboard on their ps3. Most don't have a pc - it's the smartphone/cloud era now. CCP had no choice but to allow the mouse to get off the ground with Dust, but to entice new "free" console players to play more than 5 games the mouse has gotta go to corp battles only or something similar. We need new players, who use ps3 controllers, to stick around, and it ain't happenin'. Player count may have even dropped in the last month. It sucks to us "old heads", but we gotta make it console/noob friendly right now if we want a game we enjoy to survive. |
Princeps Marcellus
Expert Intervention Caldari State
227
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 14:01:00 -
[23] - Quote
p q wrote:I don't think the dropship controls like a helicopter. If you like those sorts of sims you know what I'm talking about. I don't think any of the dropships really fill an attack helicopter role, more importantly. I squad with a Viper pilot who feels the same. For now, I would be satisfied with customizable controls for vehicles (and infantry) and pretend I'm in an attack helicopter ha ha. The turret must be able to fire forward to be similar to an attack helicop- I don't think any dropship has that... correct?
Judging from what you say, I think that what you really miss is the whole
...
Well, this.
I wish for you to go further into specifics. In Dust, dropships (or at least armor dropships, which I only know through the video that a poster posted above) are slow, clunky things. You don't operate them the same way that you would an attack helicopter. The weapons... the attack helicopter in BF3 doesn't encourage precision aiming. Instead you can fire 14 rockets within a relatively small time period all with fairly large splash radius.
So, if I'm getting this right, what you want is a harasser type of vehicle. Deadly and nimble, but extremely delicate. Able to dart in and out of situations, which would make swarm launchers their primary predators. Railguns and forge guns should not be able to take them down. Am I getting this right?
If I am, theoretically speaking, how would you balance the skills of it? Will the skills focus around health, speed, maneuverability? Something else? What kind of turret would best fit it? Would you create an entirely new, dropship specific turret?
Now that I've put some thought into this, I'm genuinely curious. |
Princeps Marcellus
Expert Intervention Caldari State
227
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 14:12:00 -
[24] - Quote
p q wrote:I challenge any who think a dropship can be used as an attack vehicle to prove it. In almost 10 million skill points worth of battle, I have been killed by a dropship turret once that I am aware of. Once. Killed by an AR? Hundreds of times. Mostly dropships just die; easy war points. If anyone here thinks the dropship is equal to an attack "helicopter" show it to the rest of us cuz nobody fears the "attack dropship". And, to address other comments, yes, a mouse/keyboard is an advantage, and seeing as how D514 is trying to bring in console players that play "for free" to start I am pretty sure they don't have a mouse/keyboard on their ps3. Most don't have a pc - it's the smartphone/cloud era now. CCP had no choice but to allow the mouse to get off the ground with Dust, but to entice new "free" console players to play more than 5 games the mouse has gotta go to corp battles only or something similar. We need new players, who use ps3 controllers, to stick around, and it ain't happenin'. Player count may have even dropped in the last month. It sucks to us "old heads", but we gotta make it console/noob friendly right now if we want a game we enjoy to survive.
You can use dropships as attack vehicles, as a video posted above clearly shows. It is not the kind of attack strategy that you like. Now, this is all conjecture, so you'll have to tell me if I'm wrong, but I think that you want a nimble chopper type of craft (preferably one with a new model, because the existing Gallente and Caldari DS models are incredibly fat) that fires missiles, or a cannon, or both with large enough splash radiuses that they can both hit their targets even when on the move.
Also, the control scheme is apparently really wonky for you. There are several different control schemes available for dropships in Dust. You've tried all of 'em?
Of course, when the thing that you're trying to control is fundamentally off, it doesn't particularly matter what controls you use, it'll still feel wrong, yeah? I think that, every so often, you should play some Arma or Battlefield or whatever game that has the attack choppers that you play. It might prove to be therapeutic and informative! |
843 Unorthadox Hunter
BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder.
22
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Posted - 2013.09.21 14:20:00 -
[25] - Quote
I like the sound of the controls though reason is that it will basically allow a more stable way of using the dropship but I think that CCP should put in a system for the dropship so that it is easier to stay in one place because once you start moving forward it is almost impossible to stop moving a little besides landing and flying back up but whatever I can still work with the dropships at the moment. |
CharCharOdell
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
945
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 18:33:00 -
[26] - Quote
Arx Ardashir wrote:CharCharOdell wrote:The drop ship is a utility VTOL aircraft (UH-1, UH-64). We still don't have attack VTOL (AH-1, AH-64) UH-64? You mean the UH-60 Blackhawk?
my bad. yes |
Salviatino Maiano
Pawns and Kings The Superpowers
27
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Posted - 2013.09.21 18:45:00 -
[27] - Quote
Dropship doesn't control like a helicopter. The only thing i would ask on top of the current assault/attack dropship would be a swarm launcher attachment for the pilot on top of the single cannon. Maybe too much, but, i would like it! |
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