I find it is difficult to explain to tankers what infantry goes through when dealing with tanks. But I came up with a simple way to illustrate it.

Scenario - It is a bizarre paralell universe in Dust 514, in which most of the players in every the match are using tanks. Infantry coming into the match is rare, but on average there is at least 1-2 infantry players amongst all the tankers.

Rules - Tanks have 3 choices in terms of weaponry:

Choice #1 - Tank has weapons designed for taking out other tanks, but do nothing to infantry players.
Choice #2 - Tank has weapons designed for taking out infantry players, but have no defense whatsoever against other tanks.
Choice #3 - Tank has a moderately powerful anti-infantry weapon, but it's range is extremely limited, uses up a valuable weapon slot and uses more CPU/PG than a anti-tank weapon.


Choice #1 - Leaves the tanker completely exposed to infantry AV players. Infantry players can literally walk right up next to the tank and do whatever they please with no way for the tank to fight back. Their only choice in this scenario is hope they can hide, or if they die, come back with an anti-infantry option to hopefully prevent the infantry player from being able to do this again.

Choice #2 - Since the match is comprised mostly of other tanks, this is a very tricky situation. This tanker chose to hunt down the pesky AV player that previously had 100% advantage over them, but they are completely vulnerable to every one of the other 15 tankers on the field. At this point it would be pure luck to avoid certain death by the tankers that are specifically hunting other enemy tanks. And to add insult to injury, once the AV infantry player knows the tank now has anti-infantry weapons, they go into hiding or switch to their tank fitting via the instant-dropsuit-recall feature.

Choice #3 - After the tankers past experiences, they figure they would choose the option which still lets them be somewhat powerful against other tanks, but also have an anti-infantry option as well. However not all goes well, as they find that the tank they chose was a poor choice for that match, as there wasn't a single infantry player on the field at all. Which left them more vulnerable to the other tanks. So after dying by the hands of a more powerful tank equipped with option #1, they decide to bring back their full-tank setup... but lo-and-behold, pretty much as soon as they do an AV infantry player appears on the field, and promptly wipes the floor with the tanker. So once again the tanker decides on choice #3, thinking it is the best choice for both anti-tank and anti-infantry. But this time the tanker is out-ranged by the AV player, and since the tanks anti-infantry weapon is so limited in range, they lose again.


Hope that clears things up a bit for tankers. Just imagine if you only had those 3 choices in a game comprised mostly of other tankers.

I find it is difficult to explain to tankers what infantry goes through when dealing with tanks. But I came up with a simple way to illustrate it.

Scenario - It is a bizarre paralell universe in Dust 514, in which most of the players in every the match are using tanks. Infantry coming into the match is rare, but on average there is at least 1-2 infantry players amongst all the tankers.

Rules - Tanks have 3 choices in terms of weaponry:

Choice #1 - Tank has weapons designed for taking out other tanks, but do nothing to infantry players.
Choice #2 - Tank has weapons designed for taking out infantry players, but have no defense whatsoever against other tanks.
Choice #3 - Tank has a moderately powerful anti-infantry weapon, but it's range is extremely limited, uses up a valuable weapon slot and uses more CPU/PG than a anti-tank weapon.


Choice #1 - Leaves the tanker completely exposed to infantry AV players. Infantry players can literally walk right up next to the tank and do whatever they please with no way for the tank to fight back. Their only choice in this scenario is hope they can hide, or if they die, come back with an anti-infantry option to hopefully prevent the infantry player from being able to do this again.

Choice #2 - Since the match is comprised mostly of other tanks, this is a very tricky situation. This tanker chose to hunt down the pesky AV player that previously had 100% advantage over them, but they are completely vulnerable to every one of the other 15 tankers on the field. At this point it would be pure luck to avoid certain death by the tankers that are specifically hunting other enemy tanks. And to add insult to injury, once the AV infantry player knows the tank now has anti-infantry weapons, they go into hiding or switch to their tank fitting via the instant-dropsuit-recall feature.

Choice #3 - After the tankers past experiences, they figure they would choose the option which still lets them be somewhat powerful against other tanks, but also have an anti-infantry option as well. However not all goes well, as they find that the tank they chose was a poor choice for that match, as there wasn't a single infantry player on the field at all. Which left them more vulnerable to the other tanks. So after dying by the hands of a more powerful tank equipped with option #1, they decide to bring back their full-tank setup... but lo-and-behold, pretty much as soon as they do an AV infantry player appears on the field, and promptly wipes the floor with the tanker. So once again the tanker decides on choice #3, thinking it is the best choice for both anti-tank and anti-infantry. But this time the tanker is out-ranged by the AV player, and since the tanks anti-infantry weapon is so limited in range, they lose again.


Hope that clears things up a bit for tankers. Just imagine if you only had those 3 choices in a game comprised mostly of other tankers.

You pick up lai dais and kill any vehicle that is known to dust 514

As an AV player, I used to relish the opportunity to kill a tank. Often it was a close fight, and I had to be very sneaky in order to pull off the kill. If I succeeded, it felt great. If I failed, it was usually because the tanker was on his toes, and I'd tip my had to him and write off the ISK from the suits as money well spent.

Nowadays, I'm tired.. I see a tank and I sigh inside, because most tankers have realised that an armor tank with a simple, massive buffer and a Large repper(or small, whatever) will defeat any attempts from a solo AV player(or small packs of ADV players) to kill him - regardless of what AV tier he's packing(STD/ADV/PRO).

Tankers don't understand how frustrating it is for an infantry player to see their tanks on the field. They only see the few losses they take(and they see those as BLASPHEMY!!). They don't see the insane number of kills they get, compared to the very very few deaths. And most of all, tankers are the LAST people that I would go to for advice on how strong AV is or is not, because they don't use it! Of course they're going to complain it's too powerful, because all they see is it being used against them. They don't count how many times they escaped, despite having 3 Lai Dai packed AV grenades and proto swarms thrown at them. Or how many times they've simply driven off from a slow forge gunner.

Being a tanker is *very* easy compared to being an Infantry player. Go in, activate hardeners, activate repper if low, mop up kills. Literally nothing to it. Oh, you got hit? Drive away, since you drive faster than any player(including a scout) can run. Tankers are just the easiest thing in the game - assuming you are using a STD with decent skill investment. About the only thing I can say tankers do have bad is that their progression is all screwed up. It's either A) You have not enough skill points and get stomped, or B) You have plenty of skill points and rarely - if ever - die.

It's just frustrating. I really hope CCP doesn't screw up 1.5, because if tanks get any harder to kill without severe nerfs in killing potential, that's likely to be the straw that breaks this camels back.

I enjoy how a handheld gun is more powerful then a mounted GIANT gun.

If you want us to see your side of the story, then tell it. Heck, use the same outline I used. Obviously both tankers and infantry have similar feelings towards eachother (thinking the other has it better off), so you should explain it.

I find it is difficult to explain to tankers what infantry goes through when dealing with tanks. But I came up with a simple way to illustrate it.

Scenario - It is a bizarre paralell universe in Dust 514, in which most of the players in every the match are using tanks. Infantry coming into the match is rare, but on average there is at least 1-2 infantry players amongst all the tankers.

Rules - Tanks have 3 choices in terms of weaponry:

Choice #1 - Tank has weapons designed for taking out other tanks, but do nothing to infantry players.
Choice #2 - Tank has weapons designed for taking out infantry players, but have no defense whatsoever against other tanks.
Choice #3 - Tank has a moderately powerful anti-infantry weapon, but it's range is extremely limited, uses up a valuable weapon slot and uses more CPU/PG than a anti-tank weapon.


Choice #1 - Leaves the tanker completely exposed to infantry AV players. Infantry players can literally walk right up next to the tank and do whatever they please with no way for the tank to fight back. Their only choice in this scenario is hope they can hide, or if they die, come back with an anti-infantry option to hopefully prevent the infantry player from being able to do this again.

Choice #2 - Since the match is comprised mostly of other tanks, this is a very tricky situation. This tanker chose to hunt down the pesky AV player that previously had 100% advantage over them, but they are completely vulnerable to every one of the other 15 tankers on the field. At this point it would be pure luck to avoid certain death by the tankers that are specifically hunting other enemy tanks. And to add insult to injury, once the AV infantry player knows the tank now has anti-infantry weapons, they go into hiding or switch to their tank fitting via the instant-dropsuit-recall feature.

Choice #3 - After the tankers past experiences, they figure they would choose the option which still lets them be somewhat powerful against other tanks, but also have an anti-infantry option as well. However not all goes well, as they find that the tank they chose was a poor choice for that match, as there wasn't a single infantry player on the field at all. Which left them more vulnerable to the other tanks. So after dying by the hands of a more powerful tank equipped with option #1, they decide to bring back their full-tank setup... but lo-and-behold, pretty much as soon as they do an AV infantry player appears on the field, and promptly wipes the floor with the tanker. So once again the tanker decides on choice #3, thinking it is the best choice for both anti-tank and anti-infantry. But this time the tanker is out-ranged by the AV player, and since the tanks anti-infantry weapon is so limited in range, they lose again.


Hope that clears things up a bit for tankers. Just imagine if you only had those 3 choices in a game comprised mostly of other tankers.

One of the biggest differences between tankers and infantry is that tankers play infantry and commonly AV.
Most infantry don't drive vehicles other than LAVs. Tanks have both sides of experience on their hand.
Also you left out isk costs.

Your awesome post.

I'm confused by your reply

I didn't say tanks were hard to kill... I said they need a buff didn't I? :(

As an AV player, I used to relish the opportunity to kill a tank. Often it was a close fight, and I had to be very sneaky in order to pull off the kill. If I succeeded, it felt great. If I failed, it was usually because the tanker was on his toes, and I'd tip my had to him and write off the ISK from the suits as money well spent.

Nowadays, I'm tired.. I see a tank and I sigh inside, because most tankers have realised that an armor tank with a simple, massive buffer and a Large repper(or small, whatever) will defeat any attempts from a solo AV player(or small packs of ADV players) to kill him - regardless of what AV tier he's packing(STD/ADV/PRO).

Tankers don't understand how frustrating it is for an infantry player to see their tanks on the field. They only see the few losses they take(and they see those as BLASPHEMY!!). They don't see the insane number of kills they get, compared to the very very few deaths. And most of all, tankers are the LAST people that I would go to for advice on how strong AV is or is not, because they don't use it! Of course they're going to complain it's too powerful, because all they see is it being used against them. They don't count how many times they escaped, despite having 3 Lai Dai packed AV grenades and proto swarms thrown at them. Or how many times they've simply driven off from a slow forge gunner.

Being a tanker is *very* easy compared to being an Infantry player. Go in, activate hardeners, activate repper if low, mop up kills. Literally nothing to it. Oh, you got hit? Drive away, since you drive faster than any player(including a scout) can run. Tankers are just the easiest thing in the game - assuming you are using a STD with decent skill investment. About the only thing I can say tankers do have bad is that their progression is all screwed up. It's either A) You have not enough skill points and get stomped, or B) You have plenty of skill points and rarely - if ever - die.

It's just frustrating. I really hope CCP doesn't screw up 1.5, because if tanks get any harder to kill without severe nerfs in killing potential, that's likely to be the straw that breaks this camels back.

Clearly written by someone who does not have Lai Dai grenades, or who does, but has not attempted to kill a good tank pilot with them.

You're confused by everything, aren't you.

This scenario is wrong on so many levels.

Add the following things to your parallel universe
- tanks cost close to 0 ISK
- tanks can hide in hills and shoot invisible, target seeking rockets on those two infantry guys
- infantry suits cost 1m ISK
- infantry is blind after 100m range

There you go with your crappy scenario.

In camp A we have the tankers, who believe that all gear should be able to pay for itself and make a profit on public servers.

In camp B we have the infantry, who believe that powerful gear should have a price and require some grinding.

LOL They don't believe PRO gear should have a price. PRO AV costs less than my 180mm nanofiber plate. That's just the plate!

The price of PRO everything was nerfed into the ground, because ya know, can't pub stomp without cheap PRO gear. Can't let those noobs fresh out the battle academy have a chance against me, 'cuz I need to run the ADV Cal Logi and a Duvolle to kill those in free MLT suits.

Maybe some think that, but not those who are truly in "camp B".

Just throwing a thought out there: Wouldn't it be nice if tanks had a way to contribute to a match without engaging infantry, which would give them the choice of whether or not they want to risk encountering AV?

Pretty sure I just managed. So please, humor us.

Erm yes let me just grow wings on my tank and fly across the sun changing the lighting while you guys shoot stuff. not engage infantry honestly what do people expect us to do?