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Vespasian Andendare
Subsonic Synthesis Alpha Wolf Pack
420
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 14:22:00 -
[31] - Quote
This is why you should spec into what you enjoy. If you like the idea of a Scout, be thankful that you specced into it. CCP isn't going to let obvious imbalances lie. They'll work and do what must be done to make all suits, weapons, etc., viable. So yes, to you, your scout choices may be limited now, but think creatively about being a scout. I've seen more scouts since 1.4 and the squad view changes, and with knives or a shotgun, they can be absolutely deadly. It's about picking your engagements and realizing you're not a commando.
The next thing--and I see people arguing this all the time--is it doesn't take speccing fully into proto in order to "test" something. You can get away with a very cheap sp investment (even just up to Advanced) to get a good feel for how weapons, suits, modules, etc., play and feel together. Once you know that, you can then decide how you want to truly specialize, and that's when you go proto. |
lDocHollidayl
Ancient Exiles
258
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 14:41:00 -
[32] - Quote
Vespasian Andendare wrote:This is why you should spec into what you enjoy. If you like the idea of a Scout, be thankful that you specced into it. CCP isn't going to let obvious imbalances lie. They'll work and do what must be done to make all suits, weapons, etc., viable. So yes, to you, your scout choices may be limited now, but think creatively about being a scout. I've seen more scouts since 1.4 and the squad view changes, and with knives or a shotgun, they can be absolutely deadly. It's about picking your engagements and realizing you're not a commando.
The next thing--and I see people arguing this all the time--is it doesn't take speccing fully into proto in order to "test" something. You can get away with a very cheap sp investment (even just up to Advanced) to get a good feel for how weapons, suits, modules, etc., play and feel together. Once you know that, you can then decide how you want to truly specialize, and that's when you go proto.
Not all true...the prof. for the weapons are very costly and very meaningful. Laser with prof. 3 or higher...very different. So it takes skilling up past proto to really get the weapon. You can feel it at lower levels but for intense PC play everyone has prof. 3 or higher and to know if that is the weapon you want may take skilling...but I regress...CCP says it makes sense to change any thing. This is the problem. You can test, spec into further... then boom. Nerf. All SP spent in vain. Harden up?
ps suits? cheap SP...the racial variants? Cheap? |
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
129
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 15:15:00 -
[33] - Quote
Assert Dominance wrote:Do people think or read at all? And do you really think i have 23 mil sp without core upgrades maxed? And all that sp in only one suit and weapon? Forums -_- you guys dont seize to amaze. If you come to the fore asking for advice you're gonna get it.
It's just lke drop suits ingame, "Don't ask the question if you can't stand to get the answer."
"Since you're the one who (fielded Proto Armor/asked a question) you can't complain when (you die/it gets answered)." Yadda yadda... |
Assert Dominance
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
382
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 15:25:00 -
[34] - Quote
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:Assert Dominance wrote:Do people think or read at all? And do you really think i have 23 mil sp without core upgrades maxed? And all that sp in only one suit and weapon? Forums -_- you guys dont seize to amaze. If you come to the fore asking for advice you're gonna get it. It's just lke drop suits ingame, "Don't ask the question if you can't stand to get the answer." "Since you're the one who (fielded Proto Armor/asked a question) you can't complain when (you die/it gets answered)." Yadda yadda... Never asked for your advise nor need it. |
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
133
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 15:54:00 -
[35] - Quote
Assert Dominance wrote:Too much grinding and too much changes. Proto'd a scout suit to find out its just absolute garbage and complete waste. Put 3 mil into tanks for them to just change altogether 2 months later (not saying 1.5 will ruin tanking) but fortunately i have been playing dust since beta and reaching almost 23 mil sp and had opportunity to experiment. Imo its utterly impossible at this stage in this "beta" to make a "careful" and "well planned" descision when spending skill points. Everything in this game is decieving. Id love to spec into new weapons that come out in the near future, but who knows it might be op and overcompensated with weird random generated numbers making it useless. Idk about anyone else, but im saving my sp for a very long time.
Assert Dominance wrote:Never asked for your advise nor need it.
Looks like your memory is suffering.
You said you are "afraid to put SP into things" because you have "no idea what to spec into" on these forums that's the equivalent of asking a question: "What do I spec into?"
If you honestly think your post wasn't accepted as a question, why did people respond? The answer is that many questions presented to these forums are often irrationally worded or even are devoid if a question mark in their entirety, but they are still questions.
Thus when a topic comes along that so blatantly falls onto the question category, people answer it. |
RedZer0 MK1
Opus Arcana
40
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 15:56:00 -
[36] - Quote
The level of uncertainty when making skill choices is absurd. We as players are lead to believe that our skill choices matter. Yet, be forever vulnerable to a 'balancing' pass making our choice barely relevant. The whole skill system, and subsequently the gear, is fragile and prone to failure. |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
2092
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 16:04:00 -
[37] - Quote
Everything is subject to nerfs, including core skills. Still core skills are your best bet.
DUST is still in early beta mode so we will continue to have fundamental changes for some time to come.
True support Logis are getting a major equipment nerf soon and vehicles are getting a complete rework next month. We just roll with it.
I figure I'll have the majority of the skill tree filled out by the time we get some stability and then it won't matter. |
calisk galern
BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder.
947
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 16:06:00 -
[38] - Quote
Skihids wrote:Everything is subject to nerfs, including core skills. Still core skills are your best bet.
DUST is still in early beta mode so we will continue to have fundamental changes for some time to come.
True support Logis are getting a major equipment nerf soon and vehicles are getting a complete rework next month. We just roll with it.
I figure I'll have the majority of the skill tree filled out by the time we get some stability and then it won't matter.
equipment nerf? |
The Terminator T-1000
The Praetorian Legionary
38
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 16:20:00 -
[39] - Quote
Assert Dominance wrote:Too much grinding and too much changes. Proto'd a scout suit to find out its just absolute garbage and complete waste. Put 3 mil into tanks for them to just change altogether 2 months later (not saying 1.5 will ruin tanking) but fortunately i have been playing dust since beta and reaching almost 23 mil sp and had opportunity to experiment. Imo its utterly impossible at this stage in this "beta" to make a "careful" and "well planned" descision when spending skill points. Everything in this game is decieving. Id love to spec into new weapons that come out in the near future, but who knows it might be op and overcompensated with weird random generated numbers making it useless. Idk about anyone else, but im saving my sp for a very long time.
I feel the same way! I am afraid of spending all my SP in only 1 thing because CCP might decide to change it. I know there are several passive skills but I dont want to be a jack of all trades.... |
Niuvo
The Phoenix Federation
496
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 16:20:00 -
[40] - Quote
I'm afraid too! the weekly cap is an inconvinience. A respec is due once the game becomes stable. I got 15.4mil SP into malfunctioning gear. It's not my fault. |
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Toby Flenderson
research lab The Superpowers
27
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 16:25:00 -
[41] - Quote
Radar R4D-47 wrote:i love how you guys are trying to tell a pro what to do. He knows what hes doing far more then all of you. Its more of him telling everyone what he thinks of the current way things are changing.
Well the thing that got me was the comment about the scout suit. The scout suit is not garbage and I don't really understand why people think it is. The OP did not waste his SP with that dropsuit IMO and if he thinks he did then I suggest he go for the complex kinetic catalyzers if he hasn't already. I have the most fun with an advanced gallente scout and a militia shotgun. |
ChromeBreaker
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
1195
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 16:26:00 -
[42] - Quote
Giant heavy laser *crosses fingers*
skill points all saved up for that lol |
Niuvo
The Phoenix Federation
496
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 16:27:00 -
[43] - Quote
Vespasian Andendare wrote:This is why you should spec into what you enjoy. If you like the idea of a Scout, be thankful that you specced into it. CCP isn't going to let obvious imbalances lie. They'll work and do what must be done to make all suits, weapons, etc., viable. So yes, to you, your scout choices may be limited now, but think creatively about being a scout. I've seen more scouts since 1.4 and the squad view changes, and with knives or a shotgun, they can be absolutely deadly. It's about picking your engagements and realizing you're not a commando.
The next thing--and I see people arguing this all the time--is it doesn't take speccing fully into proto in order to "test" something. You can get away with a very cheap sp investment (even just up to Advanced) to get a good feel for how weapons, suits, modules, etc., play and feel together. Once you know that, you can then decide how you want to truly specialize, and that's when you go proto. Well said. To OP, I'm a level 4 gal scout. We are in for a surprise when they introduce the 2 new scout suits. |
Green Living
0uter.Heaven
858
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 16:29:00 -
[44] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:I'm just waiting for 1.5 to spend my SP. New Infantry weapons on top of reworked vehicles and turrets.
Not spending a single SP until 1.5 gets here (1st or Second week of October)
Suicide is painless. |
Assert Dominance
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
383
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 17:02:00 -
[45] - Quote
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:Assert Dominance wrote:Too much grinding and too much changes. Proto'd a scout suit to find out its just absolute garbage and complete waste. Put 3 mil into tanks for them to just change altogether 2 months later (not saying 1.5 will ruin tanking) but fortunately i have been playing dust since beta and reaching almost 23 mil sp and had opportunity to experiment. Imo its utterly impossible at this stage in this "beta" to make a "careful" and "well planned" descision when spending skill points. Everything in this game is decieving. Id love to spec into new weapons that come out in the near future, but who knows it might be op and overcompensated with weird random generated numbers making it useless. Idk about anyone else, but im saving my sp for a very long time. Assert Dominance wrote:Never asked for your advise nor need it. Looks like your memory is suffering. You said you are "afraid to put SP into things" because you have "no idea what to spec into" on these forums that's the equivalent of asking a question: "What do I spec into?" If you honestly think your post wasn't accepted as a question, why did people respond? The answer is that many questions presented to these forums are often irrationally worded or even are devoid if a question mark in their entirety, but they are still questions. Thus when a topic comes along that so blatantly falls onto the question category, people answer it. Facepalm, your failure to read and comprehend is clearly worse then my memory. |
Assert Dominance
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
383
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 17:13:00 -
[46] - Quote
ChromeBreaker wrote:Giant heavy laser *crosses fingers*
skill points all saved up for that lol Hope its not as dissappointing as the plasma cannon |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
2095
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 17:28:00 -
[47] - Quote
I'm stockpiling my SP in anticipation of 1.5 and the possibility of a return of drophship viability.
If it isn't I'll probably finish off the AR skill tree because that's proved to be pretty reliable. |
I-Shayz-I
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
936
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 18:04:00 -
[48] - Quote
I put skill points into 4 different weapons all proficiency level 3 or higher. I can also use a various amount of equipment and modules to make practically whatever fitting I want to. The suit itself doesn't matter to me, just the items I put on there.
I guess I've just been lucky...none of my weapons or suits have been nerfed with the flow of this game...but then again I never chose to use any cheap tactics or weapons (AR, TAC, Flaylock, Contact grenades, Callogi, etc)
I think the problem in your situation is that you just haven't found the right suit yet. Personally, I find that a minmatar logi is a better shotgun scout than an actual scout. The reason being is that you get 3 equipment (remote explosive, scanner, nanohive), and then 3 highs and lows at advanced. This allows you to throw a couple plates and a kin cat on there, while still having a good shield buffer, and enough cpu/pg to use.
I guess what I mean is that you don't have to use a specific suit to play a certain playstyle. The minmatar are better as a speedy shield type, but I enjoy armor tanking with the logi as if I was a heavy role playing defensively around an objective. You can even throw some sprint mods on a heavy and run around like an Assault class to be offensive instead of defensive. Depending on your specific preference, you might just not have found the right combo yet.
Heck, even I'm still experimenting around with different suits right now.
A piece of advice...go make another PSN account and use it to still gain passive sp slowly. You can then use it to try out new suits and skills BEFORE you spend a ton in an area that you didn't mean to. I did that, and have over 6 million sp on that alt account put into everything from caldari assault to sprint mods to scouts to amarr suits to even the plasma cannon. It might take a while before it actually becomes useful, but it's helped me a lot when making decisions. |
Operative 1171 Aajli
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
323
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 18:06:00 -
[49] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:"Pros don't QQ"
Please, pros QQ about everything.
Pimps don't cry, baby. Pimps don't cry. |
George Moros
WarRavens League of Infamy
107
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 18:10:00 -
[50] - Quote
Assert Dominance wrote:Too much grinding and too much changes. Proto'd a scout suit to find out its just absolute garbage and complete waste. Put 3 mil into tanks for them to just change altogether 2 months later (not saying 1.5 will ruin tanking) but fortunately i have been playing dust since beta and reaching almost 23 mil sp and had opportunity to experiment. Imo its utterly impossible at this stage in this "beta" to make a "careful" and "well planned" descision when spending skill points. Everything in this game is decieving. Id love to spec into new weapons that come out in the near future, but who knows it might be op and overcompensated with weird random generated numbers making it useless. Idk about anyone else, but im saving my sp for a very long time.
It is generally not a good idea to "put all your eggs in one basket" regardless of imbalances/rebalances or anything of the sort. Any specific role, no matter how good (or even OP) it is, won't be an ideal choice in every situation. I'm not saying you should be "Jack of all trades, master of none", but having at least 2-3 options when deploying is a very good thing to have.
As for the game being "deceiving", and not being able to make well planned long-term decisions with regard to skilling up, well, this is something you're just gonna have to get used to. And this is not just me trying to politely tell you to HTFU. You may say that DUST is still in beta, or anything similar, but the reality is that such changes will occur even after 5-6 years (one may certainly hope DUST will have EVE-like longevity). In EVE, CCP is constantly rebalancing ships, modules... pretty much everything. They do it for two reasons. First is that you can never have a perfectly balanced game, especially one that has so many possible variations. Second is that after some time things can get a little stale, and rebalancing helps to freshen them up.
In the last year, EVE, a 10 year old gaming system, has seen so massive changes to some of the most popular ships (and whole classes of ships) that would make DUST's rebalancing passes seem like a rock-solid, unchangeable system. Many ships completely changed their role and focus (some for better, some for worse), and practically every subcapital ship has seen (or will see) some changes.
All those massive changes were seen as something positive (for the most part) by the majority of EVE playerbase. IMHO, there are several reasons why EVE community reacts very differently than DUST's in such situations.
First, they know that the changes are made with intention to improve the game, not to damage it. Even if CCP screws something up (and they did, and do, and will), players know that overall, things have improved.
Second, a good portion of EVE playerbase has enough skills trained that they simply don't care if one setup turns out to be worse or less desirable than before. They'll simply switch to anything else that suits their fancy.
Lastly, and with all due respect to this community, but EVE playerbase is much more mature than DUST's. I'm not saying that you won't find people whining on EVE forums over this and that. But they tend to not do it so often, and even when they do, it's done in a much more constructive fashion. You'll find much less "this is OP, nerf that!", "CCP sucks!" and/or "EVE is dead!" on EVE forums. |
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First Prophet
Unkn0wn Killers
1066
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 18:59:00 -
[51] - Quote
Nerf bat don't scare me. Man up. |
Skyhound Solbrave
Rough Riders..
239
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 19:22:00 -
[52] - Quote
On the whole "pros don't QQ", I have found that video gaming in general is the exception to this. I have never seen so much QQ from "competitive" players in any other sport/game I have followed/played competitively. They may express their distaste for a particular change, but true competitors move on and learn how to make it work. After all, even if you quit there will always be someone to replace you. |
Spkr4theDead
International-Fleet
733
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 19:23:00 -
[53] - Quote
Just 3 mil into tanks? You could put that and more into vehicle command alone. 3 mil is nowhere near enough. |
Vespasian Andendare
Subsonic Synthesis Alpha Wolf Pack
427
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 21:15:00 -
[54] - Quote
lDocHollidayl wrote:Not all true...the prof. for the weapons are very costly and very meaningful. Laser with prof. 3 or higher...very different. So it takes skilling up past proto to really get the weapon. You can feel it at lower levels but for intense PC play everyone has prof. 3 or higher and to know if that is the weapon you want may take skilling...but I regress...CCP says it makes sense to change any thing. This is the problem. You can test, spec into further... then boom. Nerf. All SP spent in vain. Harden up?
ps suits? cheap SP...the racial variants? Cheap? If you're speccing into something because it's overpowered (Flaylocks, Caldlogi, etc.), then you'll be continually be sad, as your post implies with "boom. Nerf." You shouldn't expect that an overpowered, flavor of the month sort of thing is going to remain overpowered for long. Similarly, you shouldn't expect that something is underpowered or overnerfed is going to stay that way, either.
The idea to test things, btw, doesn't mean that you need Prof 3, requiring Operation 5. Testing means that you're getting a feel for how the weapon works: do I like the low shot splash damage of a Flaylock? Can I live with the charge-shot, long range Scrambler? How well can I spam a MD? Guess what! None of those things require the proficiency skill. And if your argument is that you need proficiency to keep up with "testing" in PC matches, well I hate to tell you that perhaps PC isn't the best environment to "test" things out. Go run a few throwaway pub matches with your militia kit and the weapon/item you're testing.
Once you have a good handle on how well you can work with a weapon/item at standard (or even militia) tier, then you know that the Advanced version is going to do that version one better and proto even more so. Again, though, you NEVER need Proficiency skill to test any of this.
With respect to suits, you can absolutely get a feel for how they perform very cheaply. Just running the militia variants tells you a great deal about them. For example, running an Amarr suit tells you that they are slower than the others baseline, but they have a higher endurance with more stamina. Similarly, its easy to learn that Minmatar are very quick with a thin thank, Caldari and Gallente a mix of the two, obviously depending on what the fit is. From there--once you identify the overall racial style you like--THEN you go into the racial specific suits; each one will be a specialized suit of that racial type (possessing those racial traits you liked from earlier tests) with added bonuses to that race, be it better fitting (Gallente), shield tanking (Caldari), laser weapon usage (Amarr) or wildcards (Minmatar).
Again, though, nothing you ever need to "test" requires dumping large parts of your SP into it or training for "3 months" or spending "3 million sp." If you do that, then you're being foolish with your sp, and certainly aren't realizing what "testing" actually means or PC battle probably aren't the best place to test new fits.
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