DUST Search - Scanning in 1.4 and beyond.

S Park Finner wrote:

The flip side of active scanners is hiding from them. I thought I'd put together a post to gather up what I could find out about that.

A lot of this was put together in someone else's post but I have not been able to find it. My apologies to that poster for not linking to it. If I find it I'll include the link and update this post. I did find these two posts if you want to check them out.
http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Game_Mechanics#Scanning
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=79663
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=75184

There's a bunch of picky arithmetic in this and the numbers come from a lot of different places so if I screwed it up please let me know and I'll update it.

Some initial information about profile dampening...

Right now active scanners have four scan profile levels:

Standard - 46dB,
Advanced - 36dB,
Prototype - 28dB,
Focused Prototype - 15dB.

To be safe from a scan you have to have a combination of skills and profile dampeners that will lower your profile below those levels.

Some examples using scout suits with a basic scan profile of 45...

One basic profile dampener will reduce your profile by 15%. That brings the 41.85 from the skill bonuses you would have by level 1 in scout suits and level 1 in profile dampening to 35.57 GÇô just under the Advanced Profile Scanner's ability to scan you. Total SP cost 68,420.
Bringing your scout suit skills and profile dampening skills to level 3 would allow you to get under the advanced scanner radar without using any profile dampeners GÇô it gets you to 35.55. If you want to get under most of the prototype scanners you can burn two high slots with basic scanners and get down to 25.68.
If you max both skills your base profile drops to 29.25 but that won't get you by the prototype scanners so you will need at least one basic profile dampener. To overcome the Focused scanner I believe you will need to fit three prototype profile dampeners GÇô a fitting that only the prototype Minmatar Scout Suit will support GÇô in that setup your profile is 12.33.

Because there are a lot of combinations of skills and dampeners that can get you where you want to go you have to make your own decisions on the costs and benefits of each combination.

More details, what we know so far...

CCP Wolfman wrote on 3/15/2013 GÇ£Sprinting/walking/crouching does not have an impact on whether or not you show up on the enemy minimap. Different Dropsuits do have different signatures (with the scout having the lowest) that make you more or less likely to be picked up by an enemy scan. You can of course influence this with modules and the better the scanner the harder it will be to hide from it.GÇ¥
Scout Suit skills as of this time give a 5% reduction to scan profile with each level.
Profile Dampeners are thought to have multiplicative effect, though this has not be confirmed by a Dev. They do not have a stacking penalty, if the description of them on the market is accurate.
Profile Dampeners fit in high slots.
Scout Suits have the lowest profiles in the game so far GÇô 45 and I'll use them in my examples.

Profile Dampener characteristics (ISK versions only)...

All Profile Dampeners require
Dropsuit Upgrades 1 GÇô Level 1 Skill 6,220 SP Required
Dropsuit Core Upgrades 1 GÇô Level 2 Skill 12,440 SP Required (1% increase in PG and CPU per level for all Dropsuits)
Dropsuit Electronics 1 GÇô Level 5 Skill 31,100 SP Required (5% increase to Dropsuit CPU per level)

Name/Scan Profile Reduction/CPU/PG

Basic Profile Dampeners...
Profile Dampening 1 GÇô Level 3 Skill 18,660 SP Required (Each level of profile dampening gives a 2% reduction to Dropsuit profile)
Basic Profile Dampener/15%/15/0

Enhanced Profile Dampeners...
Profile Dampening 1 GÇô Level 3 Skill 205,260 SP Required (Each level of profile dampening gives a 2% reduction to Dropsuit profile)
Enhanced Profile Dampener/20%/24/0

Complex Profile Dampeners...
Profile Dampening 5 GÇô Level 3 Skill 933,000 SP Required (Each level of profile dampening gives a 2% reduction to Dropsuit profile)
Complex Profile Dampener/25%/33/0

Impact of skills and profile dampeners on profile...

Starting with the scout suit at 45
Scout suit bonus of 5% per level...
Each level of scout suit skill reduces the profile
1 GÇô 2.25, 2 GÇô 4.5, 3 GÇô 6.75, 4 GÇô 9, 5 - 11.25
Profile Dampening bonus of 2% per level...
Each level of profile dampening reduces the profile
1 - .9, 2 GÇô 1.8, 3 GÇô 2.7, 4 GÇô 3.6, 5 GÇô 4.5

So if you have level 1 in both skills your profile would be reduced by 2.25 for the scout suit bonus and 0.9 for the profile dampening for a total of 3.15 to 41.85 with a skill point cost of 68,420 SP.

If you had both skills maxed at 5 your profile would be reduced by 11.25 for the scout suit bonus and 4.5 for the profile dampening bonus for a total of 15.75 to 29.25 with a skill point cost of 982,760 SP.

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S Park Finner DUST University Ivy League 273	Posted - 2013.09.15 17:13:00 - [1] - Quote Thought I'd try to put all the scanner stuff in one place so folks could comment it they wanted... Some open questions... * Do any skills change the effectiveness of active scanners and if so, how? * Do any modules change the effectiveness of active scanners and if so who? * What will the skill point rewards for scanning be in 1.5 and how will they work? * Will there be other changes in scanning in 1.5 and what will they be? * Are the specs on the proximity scanner wrong? Should they be something like 50m and 360 degrees? Changes in 1.4 * Made deployed enemy equipment detectable with the active scanner * Active Scanner now causes detected objects to pulse on the HUD/minimap/overview map so that you can more easily identify scan results * Shared passive scanner vision for squads disabled (results of active scanners are still shared with squads) * Team member chevrons now only visible when they are in line of sight. Squad chevrons remain visible and will still stick to the edge of the screen Changes in 1.5 * War Point rewards for scanning (Confirmed by CCP Wolfman). Nature of the rewards not defined. Active scanners... * Results are only visible to squad mates (tested in Domination) * Scan the entire areas you sweep while turning during the scan (Confirmed CCP Wolfman ) * Scanning does not reveal the position of the scanner (Players say they have tested this) * Scanners scan through walls (tested) * Precision Enhancer Module impacts active scanner (Players say they have tested this) Best Practices... Summary from the forums as best I could consolidate it... * With the changes scanning is important to squad success * Scanners should be done at a distance from the enemy where the scan is widest. * Spinning while you scan covers the entire area you traverse * Scanning is best done by a more-or-less dedicated player just behind the front line. Logistics players are a good candidate. The argument is that scanning takes up a slot, takes you away from attacking, and if you don't spin the scan covers a wider range at a distance. Logistics players are often in that posture already. Scanner characteristics (ISK versions only)... All Scanners require Dropsuit Upgrades I GÇô Level 1 Skill 6,220 SP Required Dropsuit Core Upgrades II GÇô Level 2 Skill GÇô 49,760 SP required (1% increase in PG and CPU per level for all dropsuits) Name/Distance/Angle/Time-to-scan (Duration)/Time-targets-are-visible/Precision/CPU/PG Standard... Active Scanner Operation I GÇô Level 3 Skill 18,660 SP required Active Scanner/100m/60deg/2sec/5sec/46dB/32/9 Flux Active Scanner/150m/30deg/1sec/8sec/46dB/32/9 Advanced... Active Scanner Operation III GÇô Level 3 Skill 205,260 SP required A-86 Active Scanner/100m/60deg/2sec/5sec/5sec/36dB/38/9 A-19 Active Scanner/100m/60deg/2sec/5sec/36dB/30/6 A-45 Quantum Active Scanner/100m/60deg/2sec/16sec/36dB/38/9 Prototype... Active Scanner Operation V GÇô Level III Skill 933,000 SP Required CreoDron Active Scanner/100m/60deg/2sec/5sec/28dB/46/9 CreoDron Flux Active Scanner/200m/90deg/1sec/8sec/28dB/46/9 CreoDron Proximity Active Scanner/65m/45deg/4sec/5sec/28dB/46/9 Duvolle Quantum Active Scanner/100m/60deg/2sec/25sec/28dB/46/9 Duvolle Focused Active Scanner/100m/60deg/5sec/5sec/15dB/38/18 The very basics... Since some folks might be completely new to scanning and fitting. 1. Buy the skill books and train the skills necessary to scan (see the section above) 2. Buy a scanner (or a few) for your fit (Market/Dropsuit Equipment/Active Scanners) 3. Create or modify one of your dropsuit fittings by putting the scanner in an equipment slot On the battlefield... 1. Equip the scanner with R2/Select Scanner From Wheel. 2. Face the direction of the suspected enemy then press and hold R1 ---- On the mini-map you will see the scan move out and hear the scanning sound ---- Enemies and enemy equipment whose scan profile is higher than the scan precision of the scanner will start to blink in the mini-map and on the 3D HUD ---- On the right side of the HUD you will see the scanner recharging and hear the recharging sound ---- Once recharged, you can scan again. 3. Sweeping the scanner as you use it (spinning your character with the Right Stick) gives you a broader scan angle.
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster 988	Posted - 2013.09.15 17:19:00 - [2] - Quote Excellent.
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 1282	Posted - 2013.09.15 17:21:00 - [3] - Quote S Park Finner wrote: Some open questions... * Do any skills change the effectiveness of active scanners and if so, how? * Do any modules change the effectiveness of active scanners and if so who? * What will the skill point rewards for scanning be in 1.5 and how will they work? * Will there be other changes in scanning in 1.5 and what will they be? * Are the specs on the proximity scanner wrong? Should they be something like 50m and 360 degrees? * Nothing appears to affect active scanners at this time. * The Proximity model seems odd. I think the goal is to use the 4 seconds to sweep the 360 degrees. I just started a guide in the Rookie Training Grounds section. Feel free to add information to it. Information in General Discussions tends to disappear quickly due to the high volume of traffic. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=110190
Justin Tymes Dem Durrty Boyz Public Disorder. 385	Posted - 2013.09.15 17:56:00 - [4] - Quote Even if it's just 10WP per Enemy killed from scan results, it helps alot in deciding to actually use Active Scanners.
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1594	Posted - 2013.09.15 18:45:00 - [5] - Quote I think the point of the proximity scanner is that you can use it and spin in a circle to get the 360 degrees effect.
S Park Finner DUST University Ivy League 276	Posted - 2013.09.15 19:00:00 - [6] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: ... I just started a guide in the Rookie Training Grounds section. Feel free to add information to it. Information in General Discussions tends to disappear quickly due to the high volume of traffic. Great point -- do you think I should cross-post the whole thing? Beren Hurin wrote: I think the point of the proximity scanner is that you can use it and spin in a circle to get the 360 degrees effect. In a Dev post CCP Wolfman suggests scanner sweeping isn't something they really want. That's why I thought the proximity scanner might not be described or specified correctly.
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 175	Posted - 2013.09.15 20:10:00 - [7] - Quote There are modules that have a effect on active scanners. They are called "sensor dampeners". The complex reduce your signature by 25%. If your signature is lower then the scan strenght of the scanner you wont get picked up. Prime example for this is when you get a error message when scanning. Oh and the modules go into the low slots.
S Park Finner DUST University Ivy League 280	Posted - 2013.09.15 23:14:00 - [8] - Quote Bright Cloud wrote: There are modules that have a effect on active scanners. They are called "sensor dampeners". The complex reduce your signature by 25%. If your signature is lower then the scan strenght of the scanner you wont get picked up. Prime example for this is when you get a error message when scanning. Oh and the modules go into the low slots. You are right, of course, but I was thinking of skills or modules for the person doing the scanning, not the person being scanned. Some folks have said that no skills or modules modify the effectiveness of scanners so that's our understanding so far -- baring, of course some Dev response to the contrary. You do bring up the point that some analysis of the skills and modules people can fit that will counteract active scanners might be worth while. I'll search through the forums and see what's been done so far. Any pointers would be welcome.
S Park Finner DUST University Ivy League 283	Posted - 2013.09.16 19:08:00 - [9] - Quote S Park Finner wrote: The flip side of active scanners is hiding from them. I thought I'd put together a post to gather up what I could find out about that. A lot of this was put together in someone else's post but I have not been able to find it. My apologies to that poster for not linking to it. If I find it I'll include the link and update this post. I did find these two posts if you want to check them out. http://wiki.dust514.info/index.php?title=Game_Mechanics#Scanning https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=79663 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=75184 There's a bunch of picky arithmetic in this and the numbers come from a lot of different places so if I screwed it up please let me know and I'll update it. Some initial information about profile dampening... Right now active scanners have four scan profile levels: Standard - 46dB, Advanced - 36dB, Prototype - 28dB, Focused Prototype - 15dB. To be safe from a scan you have to have a combination of skills and profile dampeners that will lower your profile below those levels. Some examples using scout suits with a basic scan profile of 45... One basic profile dampener will reduce your profile by 15%. That brings the 41.85 from the skill bonuses you would have by level 1 in scout suits and level 1 in profile dampening to 35.57 GÇô just under the Advanced Profile Scanner's ability to scan you. Total SP cost 68,420. Bringing your scout suit skills and profile dampening skills to level 3 would allow you to get under the advanced scanner radar without using any profile dampeners GÇô it gets you to 35.55. If you want to get under most of the prototype scanners you can burn two high slots with basic scanners and get down to 25.68. If you max both skills your base profile drops to 29.25 but that won't get you by the prototype scanners so you will need at least one basic profile dampener. To overcome the Focused scanner I believe you will need to fit three prototype profile dampeners GÇô a fitting that only the prototype Minmatar Scout Suit will support GÇô in that setup your profile is 12.33. Because there are a lot of combinations of skills and dampeners that can get you where you want to go you have to make your own decisions on the costs and benefits of each combination. More details, what we know so far... CCP Wolfman wrote on 3/15/2013 GÇ£Sprinting/walking/crouching does not have an impact on whether or not you show up on the enemy minimap. Different Dropsuits do have different signatures (with the scout having the lowest) that make you more or less likely to be picked up by an enemy scan. You can of course influence this with modules and the better the scanner the harder it will be to hide from it.GÇ¥ Scout Suit skills as of this time give a 5% reduction to scan profile with each level. Profile Dampeners are thought to have multiplicative effect, though this has not be confirmed by a Dev. They do not have a stacking penalty, if the description of them on the market is accurate. Profile Dampeners fit in high slots. Scout Suits have the lowest profiles in the game so far GÇô 45 and I'll use them in my examples. Profile Dampener characteristics (ISK versions only)... All Profile Dampeners require Dropsuit Upgrades 1 GÇô Level 1 Skill 6,220 SP Required Dropsuit Core Upgrades 1 GÇô Level 2 Skill 12,440 SP Required (1% increase in PG and CPU per level for all Dropsuits) Dropsuit Electronics 1 GÇô Level 5 Skill 31,100 SP Required (5% increase to Dropsuit CPU per level) Name/Scan Profile Reduction/CPU/PG Basic Profile Dampeners... Profile Dampening 1 GÇô Level 3 Skill 18,660 SP Required (Each level of profile dampening gives a 2% reduction to Dropsuit profile) Basic Profile Dampener/15%/15/0 Enhanced Profile Dampeners... Profile Dampening 1 GÇô Level 3 Skill 205,260 SP Required (Each level of profile dampening gives a 2% reduction to Dropsuit profile) Enhanced Profile Dampener/20%/24/0 Complex Profile Dampeners... Profile Dampening 5 GÇô Level 3 Skill 933,000 SP Required (Each level of profile dampening gives a 2% reduction to Dropsuit profile) Complex Profile Dampener/25%/33/0 Impact of skills and profile dampeners on profile... Starting with the scout suit at 45 Scout suit bonus of 5% per level... Each level of scout suit skill reduces the profile 1 GÇô 2.25, 2 GÇô 4.5, 3 GÇô 6.75, 4 GÇô 9, 5 - 11.25 Profile Dampening bonus of 2% per level... Each level of profile dampening reduces the profile 1 - .9, 2 GÇô 1.8, 3 GÇô 2.7, 4 GÇô 3.6, 5 GÇô 4.5 So if you have level 1 in both skills your profile would be reduced by 2.25 for the scout suit bonus and 0.9 for the profile dampening for a total of 3.15 to 41.85 with a skill point cost of 68,420 SP. If you had both skills maxed at 5 your profile would be reduced by 11.25 for the scout suit bonus and 4.5 for the profile dampening bonus for a total of 15.75 to 29.25 with a skill point cost of 982,760 SP.
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 493	Posted - 2013.09.16 19:12:00 - [10] - Quote There is no skill to improve active scanner, but you can skill dampening to make others less effective!!



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