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Matobar
Warrior Nation WNx
179
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Posted - 2013.09.14 07:48:00 -
[31] - Quote
I'm a logi and I like 1.4 just fine. I frequently top the scoreboard, and that's after active scanning for a lot of the game for no WP :D |
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Michael Arck
Anubis Prime Syndicate
1048
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Posted - 2013.09.14 07:55:00 -
[32] - Quote
lol he said "and?". You are trolling.
So you're saying that the player who has SP grinded to get to his pivotal point as an assault player should die in a 1 v 1 fight very easily against an player whom hasn't skilled into the areas that the proto has? In a manner of seconds? Compared to the effort you had to put in to take out a proto? Which was a respectable level since people didn't complain about that, they just wanted proto removed from pub matches.
Try trolling harder.
Hilarious. |
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Matobar
Warrior Nation WNx
184
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Posted - 2013.09.14 07:59:00 -
[33] - Quote
Look, as far as CCP is concerned, equipment should not over-rule player skill. They designed the game, or intended to design it, so that if a player is skilled enough, he can and should overcome an equipment disadvantage. They've said as much more than once.
If a proto player goes through all of that trouble, like you just pointed out, and still manages to lose a proto suit despite all the obvious advantages it gives him, in terms of stats and experience, I'd say he deserves to lose it.
He's just worse at the game than the one who killed him. Aim Assist didn't do that. |
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Keri Starlight
Psygod9
280
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Posted - 2013.09.14 08:01:00 -
[34] - Quote
xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:Michael Arck wrote:xxwhitedevilxx M wrote: I think the point was that if a proto dies to a militia it's because the proto, even if in protosuit has no personal skill, so he deserves to die. On a side note, personal skills are not only quick aim, headshots and strafe.
Well obviously if you read my post I explain myself clearly enough that you should gather that I'm talking about a 1 on 1 firefight. That's pretty clear to read in my post. Folks were complaining about what I'm talking about. ...and? what i wrote perfectly applies in case of 1 on 1 too, why not?
LOL in clean 1v1 you don't even have an excuse!
A proto with maxed out everything losing to a militia starter? Ok, hold on, proto guy, I got some advice for you.
-Send all your ISK to someone (the guy who killed you, for example)
-Log out
-Select your character
-Select Biomass
-Accept
-Uninstall DUST 514 |
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Cosgar
ParagonX
5224
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Posted - 2013.09.14 08:03:00 -
[35] - Quote
Matobar wrote:Look, as far as CCP is concerned, equipment should not over-rule player skill. They designed the game, or intended to design it, so that if a player is skilled enough, he can and should overcome an equipment disadvantage. They've said as much more than once.
If a proto player goes through all of that trouble, like you just pointed out, and still manages to lose a proto suit despite all the obvious advantages it gives him, in terms of stats and experience, I'd say he deserves to lose it.
He's just worse at the game than the one who killed him. Aim Assist didn't do that. What it did was devalue time/ISK/SP and even AUR people invested into their characters. Why would you use or skill into something different if the results were going to be the same as if you just used starter fits and BPO? |
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Mad Mav
Brotherhood of the Commissioned
223
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Posted - 2013.09.14 08:04:00 -
[36] - Quote
If the militia guy is skilled enough to take out a proto then more power to him.
Skill >> Equipment |
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Matobar
Warrior Nation WNx
184
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Posted - 2013.09.14 08:05:00 -
[37] - Quote
Like I said, equipment does give you advantages. In a one on one between equally skilled players, the proto would win.
But in a one on one between unequally skilled players, the more skilled one SHOULD win, regardless of equipment. That has been CCP's design philosophy from day one, and they've made no secret of it. Why complain about it now? Aim Assist has done nothing to alter that ideal. |
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Cosgar
ParagonX
5224
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Posted - 2013.09.14 08:06:00 -
[38] - Quote
Mad Mav wrote:If the militia guy is skilled enough to take out a proto then more power to him.
Skill >> Equipment ^The key word being skill and not just being able to hipfire across the map with homing bullets. |
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Michael Arck
Anubis Prime Syndicate
1048
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Posted - 2013.09.14 08:07:00 -
[39] - Quote
Keri Starlight wrote:xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:Michael Arck wrote:xxwhitedevilxx M wrote: I think the point was that if a proto dies to a militia it's because the proto, even if in protosuit has no personal skill, so he deserves to die. On a side note, personal skills are not only quick aim, headshots and strafe.
Well obviously if you read my post I explain myself clearly enough that you should gather that I'm talking about a 1 on 1 firefight. That's pretty clear to read in my post. Folks were complaining about what I'm talking about. ...and? what i wrote perfectly applies in case of 1 on 1 too, why not? LOL in clean 1v1 you don't even have an excuse! A proto with maxed out everything losing to a militia starter? Ok, hold on, proto guy, I got some advice for you. -Send all your ISK to someone (the guy who killed you, for example) -Log out -Select your character -Select Biomass -Accept -Uninstall DUST 514
I don't run proto though. Only when i feel like rampaging. You mostly find me in advanced suits. I told you two I'm indifferent to this but I can see why they possibly made some changes. You both are acting as if I'm raising some protest.
Yet and still, you two are missing my point and not viewing this objectively. If you cannot comprehend what I"m saying objectively, of course you will respond in the manner that are you are saying.
Laymen's terms? Evening out the playing field takes away the hard work of those who gone to proto. That means you have no payoff for SP grinding. That means the average player will play for a while and then possibly leave. There's no reason to level up when you're killing protos as if you're the proto and they are the militia, Uprising syle.
Why are you continuously missing that part instead of knee jerking it? |
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Michael Arck
Anubis Prime Syndicate
1048
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Posted - 2013.09.14 08:08:00 -
[40] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Matobar wrote:Look, as far as CCP is concerned, equipment should not over-rule player skill. They designed the game, or intended to design it, so that if a player is skilled enough, he can and should overcome an equipment disadvantage. They've said as much more than once.
If a proto player goes through all of that trouble, like you just pointed out, and still manages to lose a proto suit despite all the obvious advantages it gives him, in terms of stats and experience, I'd say he deserves to lose it.
He's just worse at the game than the one who killed him. Aim Assist didn't do that. What it did was devalue time/ISK/SP and even AUR people invested into their characters. Why would you use or skill into something different if the results were going to be the same as if you just used starter fits and BPO?
Ha, I just posted that in my post and scrolled up to see you the say the same. |
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Matobar
Warrior Nation WNx
186
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Posted - 2013.09.14 08:12:00 -
[41] - Quote
In my honest opinion, I found the post 1.4 version of DUST vastly superior to the pre-1.4 version, and that's entirely due to the Aim Assist. I don't see what the big deal is about it, honestly.
Proto players have the Aim Assist, same as newer players do. They can spray bullets up close just the same as newer players can, and for all intents and purposes they should be able to murder people more quickly because their guns do more damage. If the proto players and their "superior skill" can't outmaneuver the "inferior pubbies" when given the exact same "unfair aimbot" these apparently worse players have, are they really better? Or were they hiding behind shoddy DS3 controls to keep their proto equipment because they liked going 20-0 in pub games?
Leveling the playing field? Maybe.
Taking something from the proto players? Hardly.
Making DUST 514 better? Absolutely. |
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xxwhitedevilxx M
Maphia Clan Corporation CRONOS.
642
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Posted - 2013.09.14 08:13:00 -
[42] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Matobar wrote:Look, as far as CCP is concerned, equipment should not over-rule player skill. They designed the game, or intended to design it, so that if a player is skilled enough, he can and should overcome an equipment disadvantage. They've said as much more than once.
If a proto player goes through all of that trouble, like you just pointed out, and still manages to lose a proto suit despite all the obvious advantages it gives him, in terms of stats and experience, I'd say he deserves to lose it.
He's just worse at the game than the one who killed him. Aim Assist didn't do that. What it did was devalue time/ISK/SP and even AUR people invested into their characters. Why would you use or skill into something different if the results were going to be the same as if you just used starter fits and BPO?
So, you're saying that if, let's say, 13ear, the actual 1st position on leader boards, weren't in his protosuit and you were, he would never kill you? awww you're sooo self confident, good for you n.n |
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Keri Starlight
Psygod9
283
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Posted - 2013.09.14 08:15:00 -
[43] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:Keri Starlight wrote:xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:Michael Arck wrote:xxwhitedevilxx M wrote: I think the point was that if a proto dies to a militia it's because the proto, even if in protosuit has no personal skill, so he deserves to die. On a side note, personal skills are not only quick aim, headshots and strafe.
Well obviously if you read my post I explain myself clearly enough that you should gather that I'm talking about a 1 on 1 firefight. That's pretty clear to read in my post. Folks were complaining about what I'm talking about. ...and? what i wrote perfectly applies in case of 1 on 1 too, why not? LOL in clean 1v1 you don't even have an excuse! A proto with maxed out everything losing to a militia starter? Ok, hold on, proto guy, I got some advice for you. -Send all your ISK to someone (the guy who killed you, for example) -Log out -Select your character -Select Biomass -Accept -Uninstall DUST 514 I don't run proto though. Only when i feel like rampaging. You mostly find me in advanced suits. I told you two I'm indifferent to this but I can see why they possibly made some changes. You both are acting as if I'm raising some protest. Yet and still, you two are missing my point and not viewing this objectively. If you cannot comprehend what I"m saying objectively, of course you will respond in the manner that are you are saying. Laymen's terms? Evening out the playing field takes away the hard work of those who gone to proto. That means you have no payoff for SP grinding. That means the average player will play for a while and then possibly leave. There's no reason to level up when you're killing protos as if you're the proto and they are the militia, Uprising syle. Why are you continuously missing that part instead of knee jerking it?
That wasn't referred to you in particular.
I mostly run Proto and I rarely die. That didn't change during the last week (super-god-aimbot mode on).
So maybe I'm failing to see your point, but I really don't think there is any. |
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Cosgar
ParagonX
5227
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Posted - 2013.09.14 08:19:00 -
[44] - Quote
xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:Cosgar wrote:Matobar wrote:Look, as far as CCP is concerned, equipment should not over-rule player skill. They designed the game, or intended to design it, so that if a player is skilled enough, he can and should overcome an equipment disadvantage. They've said as much more than once.
If a proto player goes through all of that trouble, like you just pointed out, and still manages to lose a proto suit despite all the obvious advantages it gives him, in terms of stats and experience, I'd say he deserves to lose it.
He's just worse at the game than the one who killed him. Aim Assist didn't do that. What it did was devalue time/ISK/SP and even AUR people invested into their characters. Why would you use or skill into something different if the results were going to be the same as if you just used starter fits and BPO? So, you're saying that if, let's say, 13ear, the actual 1st position on leader boards, weren't in his protosuit and you were, he would never kill you? awww you're sooo self confident, good for you n.n Skill > Gear should always determine balance but different tiered gear should give you a competitive edge in terms of that customization. Remember when Chromosome was all about passive skills? Didn't matter what you fit on your suit, you needed passive skills that put a higher emphasis on SP > Skill. The one thing they did right in Uprising was apply those passives to how you fit your suit. Why go through the effort of finding a proper way of balancing things out when you base it on who shoots first in the next patch? |
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Michael Arck
Anubis Prime Syndicate
1050
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Posted - 2013.09.14 08:22:00 -
[45] - Quote
I have a very valid point.
Unfortunately you can't view the discussion objectively because you're just thinking about your perspective and your experience.
You can't see how it possibly breaks the game and disregards the reward of grinding.
I don't even care either way but I can see the reasoning why they might have changed it, objectively, even though it affects me to where I have to fight harder now against protos. The initial 1.4 change made it way too easy to kill protos. |
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Matobar
Warrior Nation WNx
187
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Posted - 2013.09.14 08:23:00 -
[46] - Quote
Except the proto would still be able to win because his gun does more damage and he has more health, assuming he doesn't have the reflexes of a dead cat, and your belief in unassailable-aim-bot is correct........................................................................ |
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xxwhitedevilxx M
Maphia Clan Corporation CRONOS.
644
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Posted - 2013.09.14 08:30:00 -
[47] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote: The initial 1.4 change where it was way too easy to kill protos.
Well, you're actually speaking for yourself, because yes, i died more, but only for the first match and just because i was trying out different load outs in ADV/STD stuff. For sure, if you jump in front of 2 guys even if they're in starter fit they'll probably kill you. And that's how it should be imo. You cannot be a lone wolf, a deus ex machine just because you're wearing a black romper suit filled with shield extenders and dog mods. Moreover, you're not supposed to survive if someone gets you from the back whether you're in proto or not. I see your point, but you actually have many more HP in proto, your survivability is much higher. If you see you're dying in proto just stop using it. |
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Your Absolut End
Neanderthal Nation Public Disorder.
177
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Posted - 2013.09.14 08:39:00 -
[48] - Quote
AA is gone and magically protobears, duvolles and strafing scrubs are on the field again.
I think this says enough. Dust 514 was way more balanced with AA. everybody who argued against it just missed his daily protostomping zig-zag runs....
|
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Cosgar
ParagonX
5231
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Posted - 2013.09.14 08:42:00 -
[49] - Quote
Your Absolut End wrote:AA is gone and magically protobears, duvolles and strafing scrubs are on the field again.
I think this says enough. Dust 514 was way more balanced with AA. everybody who argued against it just missed his daily protostomping zig-zag runs....
I thought people were worried about new players getting protostomped... |
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Defy Gravity
The Pyramid Order The Nova Foundry
91
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Posted - 2013.09.14 08:46:00 -
[50] - Quote
Honestly im going to make a statement.... A statement to all the assholes with gigantic balls in the forum post.. Ive kicked all your asses already.... All of you High KD assholes think your big and tough but Ive kicked all of your asses in game... You cant make a constructive post for once? Ive played with most of you.... and all I hear is rage rage rage... Complain Complain Complain. I agree with this guy about the AA it needs to be put back the way it was because it helps with all other weapons I use.... The AR Ive kicked everyones ass with it.... The AA helps me alot because im in a armor suit most of the time so it helps me beat down fast strafing caldari suits. Come on DUST community.. Your better than this. |
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xxwhitedevilxx M
Maphia Clan Corporation CRONOS.
644
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Posted - 2013.09.14 08:46:00 -
[51] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Your Absolut End wrote:AA is gone and magically protobears, duvolles and strafing scrubs are on the field again.
I think this says enough. Dust 514 was way more balanced with AA. everybody who argued against it just missed his daily protostomping zig-zag runs....
I thought people were worried about new players getting protostomped...
I'm actually worried about kb/m untrackable super speed strafe |
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Your Absolut End
Neanderthal Nation Public Disorder.
180
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Posted - 2013.09.14 08:50:00 -
[52] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Your Absolut End wrote:AA is gone and magically protobears, duvolles and strafing scrubs are on the field again.
I think this says enough. Dust 514 was way more balanced with AA. everybody who argued against it just missed his daily protostomping zig-zag runs....
I thought people were worried about new players getting protostomped...
H, dunno, I'm playing since open beta, and I'm close to 20mil, so the proto stuff shouldn't bother me too hard, but in my opinion proto gear should be standard for pc, but not for pubmatches.
thats what I really enjoyed about AA, it gave a more strategic feel to the game, because if an enemy spots you first, you will hit that floor first to no matter if your suits is yellow, whitey, red, grey or even black.
and this strategic thing makes much more sense then bullet dodging one man armys..... |
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Cosgar
ParagonX
5232
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Posted - 2013.09.14 08:50:00 -
[53] - Quote
Defy Gravity wrote:Honestly im going to make a statement.... A statement to all the assholes with gigantic balls in the forum post.. Ive kicked all your asses already.... All of you High KD assholes think your big and tough but Ive kicked all of your asses in game... You cant make a constructive post for once? Ive played with most of you.... and all I hear is rage rage rage... Complain Complain Complain. I agree with this guy about the AA it needs to be put back the way it was because it helps with all other weapons I use.... The AR Ive kicked everyones ass with it.... The AA helps me alot because im in a armor suit most of the time so it helps me beat down fast strafing caldari suits. Come on DUST community.. Your better than this. When I saw the first forum topic requesting for fighter jets to be nerfed, I realized that the community isn't better than this. Watch how many MD is OP topics are going to pop up when people have a chance to actually shot back now. Hell, expect massive tank and dropship butthurt in 1.5 too. Even better, wait until people rage about the combat and rail rifle or the AR re-balancing that's going to take place next month. |
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Michael Arck
Anubis Prime Syndicate
1050
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Posted - 2013.09.14 08:53:00 -
[54] - Quote
xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:Michael Arck wrote: The initial 1.4 change where it was way too easy to kill protos.
Well, you're actually speaking for yourself, because yes, i died more, but only for the first match and just because i was trying out different load outs in ADV/STD stuff. For sure, if you jump in front of 2 guys even if they're in starter fit they'll probably kill you. And that's how it should be imo. You cannot be a lone wolf, a deus ex machina just because you're wearing a black romper suit filled with shield extenders and dmg mods. Moreover, you're not supposed to survive if someone gets you from the back whether you're in proto or not. I see your point, but you actually have many more HP in proto, your survivability is much higher. If you see you're dying in proto just stop using it.
"Stay on Target!!" You are going all over the place just for clicks of the like button.
Now we're talking about jumping in front of two guys?? Getting shot in the back?? Lone wolf??
This is why I don't like debating with brick walls. Even if you provide intelligent insights they still respond like robots with only limited responses.
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Cosgar
ParagonX
5232
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Posted - 2013.09.14 08:54:00 -
[55] - Quote
Your Absolut End wrote:Cosgar wrote:Your Absolut End wrote:AA is gone and magically protobears, duvolles and strafing scrubs are on the field again.
I think this says enough. Dust 514 was way more balanced with AA. everybody who argued against it just missed his daily protostomping zig-zag runs....
I thought people were worried about new players getting protostomped... H, dunno, I'm playing since open beta, and I'm close to 20mil, so the proto stuff shouldn't bother me too hard, but in my opinion proto gear should be standard for pc, but not for pubmatches. thats what I really enjoyed about AA, it gave a more strategic feel to the game, because if an enemy spots you first, you will hit that floor first to no matter if your suits is yellow, whitey, red, grey or even black. and this strategic thing makes much more sense then bullet dodging one man armys..... I've never seen a one man protostomp. It's usually an organized corp or a bunch of newberries on the opposing end. Some times it's not even from proto but a bunch fo dren suits and toxin ARs. |
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CommanderBolt
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
282
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Posted - 2013.09.14 08:56:00 -
[56] - Quote
xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:KA24DERT wrote:Kb/m has no place in a competitive PS3 FPS, let alone one that's destined to have an impact on the high-stakes world of Eve.
Aim like anybody else on console Fixed for you.
Suck on my balls, KB/M user here.
Oh by the way , like I have said before, controller users are all the top players in ANON so this bitching about KB/M is stupid. Its a control preference and nothing more.
Also Aim Assist, suck my gonads as well. |
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Matobar
Warrior Nation WNx
191
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Posted - 2013.09.14 09:02:00 -
[57] - Quote
CCP made a mistake when they decided to build the game with two different control inputs. That's just the way it is.
No other game developer has ever tried to do this, because it's too hard. Valve, SOE, Guerilla Games, Bungie, DICE, all have reneged on promises of cross-play support because their programmers admitted balancing kb/m with controllers is too difficult. CCP programmers, when pressed, admit that they wish they didn't have to worry about two different control inputs.
The long and short of it is: KB/M Is only in this game because CCP wanted to pander to its PC gaming roots, and DUST has been paying for it ever since. This uproar over the Aim Assist is just the latest flare-up. |
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Cosgar
ParagonX
5232
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Posted - 2013.09.14 09:03:00 -
[58] - Quote
xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:Cosgar wrote:Your Absolut End wrote:AA is gone and magically protobears, duvolles and strafing scrubs are on the field again.
I think this says enough. Dust 514 was way more balanced with AA. everybody who argued against it just missed his daily protostomping zig-zag runs....
I thought people were worried about new players getting protostomped... I'm actually worried about kb/m untrackable super speed strafe To my understanding, that's more of a frame rate issue. Remember back in 1.0 when scouts could outrun 30 FPS? |
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CommanderBolt
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
283
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Posted - 2013.09.14 09:04:00 -
[59] - Quote
Matobar wrote:CCP made a mistake when they decided to build the game with two different control inputs. That's just the way it is.
No other game developer has ever tried to do this, because it's too hard. Valve, SOE, Guerilla Games, Bungie, DICE, all have reneged on promises of cross-play support because their programmers admitted balancing kb/m with controllers is too difficult. CCP programmers, when pressed, admit that they wish they didn't have to worry about two different control inputs.
The long and short of it is: KB/M Is only in this game because CCP wanted to pander to its PC gaming roots, and DUST has been paying for it ever since. This uproar over the Aim Assist is just the latest flare-up.
CCP a PC game producing company should have made dust for the PC. The funding from dust came from the pc crowd. So it seems only logical that they have a pc control imput such as the KB/M.
I swear to you this game would have at the very least ran smoother on pc, I think it probably would have had more players as well. However I cannot prove that and its only my gut instinct. |
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Cosgar
ParagonX
5232
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Posted - 2013.09.14 09:05:00 -
[60] - Quote
Matobar wrote:CCP made a mistake when they decided to build the game with two different control inputs. That's just the way it is.
No other game developer has ever tried to do this, because it's too hard. Valve, SOE, Guerilla Games, Bungie, DICE, all have reneged on promises of cross-play support because their programmers admitted balancing kb/m with controllers is too difficult. CCP programmers, when pressed, admit that they wish they didn't have to worry about two different control inputs.
The long and short of it is: KB/M Is only in this game because CCP wanted to pander to its PC gaming roots, and DUST has been paying for it ever since. This uproar over the Aim Assist is just the latest flare-up. KB/M in Dust are based on joystick emulation. Where's your god now? |
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