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Would you say Dust is currently a cover shooter?

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Our Deepest Regret Algintal Core Gallente Federation 180	Posted - 2013.09.12 14:13:00 - [1] - Quote I've been playing a ton of pub ambush games to grind Isk, and one thing I've really noticed is that the dynamic of these games has changed a lot. You still have vehicle users tearing around the map, but the way Infantry plays seems totally different. There are long exchanges of fire, distance has become really valuable, as has cover, and it seems as though teamwork has become much more valuable. Because both sides are now bunking down for so much of the match, medics have become priceless for keeping clone losses down. Making a push towards the enemy feels a lot more exciting, especially when the momentum is on your side. Getting pushed on when you're losing makes you feel like panicking. I'm not saying the AA is a good thing, but combat does feel a lot more strategic. I still see some guys pulling off 19 kill games, but it seems like they accomplish it through teamwork. Was this always the intended direction for Dust?
HandOGod Taints of Tartarus 151	Posted - 2013.09.12 14:25:00 - [2] - Quote I agree. Also with drop links only being visible directly, and shared vision being removed there's a definite feel that tactics become more important. And people with active scanners are glorious angles. I'm dying more, not making as much money, but enjoying the game more.
Sgt Kirk SyNergy Gaming EoN. 1614	Posted - 2013.09.12 14:30:00 - [3] - Quote I'm making a lot more money from the tears of my enemies. Thanks to me being an armour tanker for a year I know how to take cover and push an objective. (instead of tap dancing around to avoid bullets like shield users have been doing since the beginning) I'm making a net gain so much from every match I'm calling in fully fitted assault dropships just for ***** and giggles now. I got bindas fulla women in my merc quarters.
Justice Prevails Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 4	Posted - 2013.09.12 14:32:00 - [4] - Quote Don't know if that was the intention. But having more fun now.
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 267	Posted - 2013.09.12 14:34:00 - [5] - Quote The upgraded offense has made positioning much more important. It's nice to see people slowly adapt to the new circumstances. The fights are getting more static and thus also larger. This plays much less like a bad implementation of Quake 3 Arena than it did before. I think Dust is better for the aim assist. No more stupid death-dances and much more action.
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 1238	Posted - 2013.09.12 14:38:00 - [6] - Quote This is probably why CCP has yet to respond to the 'discussion' about aim assist and hit detection. They needed to give us time to adapt. I like the new fights. Once squad deployment is fixed I think 1.4 is a solid improvement.
bjorn morkai Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 11	Posted - 2013.09.12 14:43:00 - [7] - Quote What you are technically referring to is a cover system, which, technicaly, DUST does not have. We have a crouch, this doesn't mean we have a cover system. A game with a cover system includes Time Crysis, Gears of War, Mass Effect, Uncharted, vanquish, basically anything where you glue yourself to a piece of cover, where cover is placed around the game due to the 'unique' way the game is made, and thus it has such a system. DUST does not have such a system, it just has objects in which you SHOULD hide behind otherwise you're gonna get your ass shot and die much quicker. Unfortunately we are not the mighty space marines of the God Emperor's Imperium of Man who can simply shrug off a bullet or a laser or a mass driver, we do need to hide behind a rock or a crate. Well even then the space marines do use cover. So, no, it isn't.
Vrain Matari ZionTCD 885	Posted - 2013.09.12 14:48:00 - [8] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: This is probably why CCP has yet to respond to the 'discussion' about aim assist and hit detection. They needed to give us time to adapt. ... My thoughts also.
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 489	Posted - 2013.09.12 14:53:00 - [9] - Quote bjorn morkai wrote: What you are technically referring to is a cover system, which, technicaly, DUST does not have. We have a crouch, this doesn't mean we have a cover system. A game with a cover system includes Time Crysis, Gears of War, Mass Effect, Uncharted, vanquish, basically anything where you glue yourself to a piece of cover, where cover is placed around the game due to the 'unique' way the game is made, and thus it has such a system. DUST does not have such a system, it just has objects in which you SHOULD hide behind otherwise you're gonna get your ass shot and die much quicker. Unfortunately we are not the mighty space marines of the God Emperor's Imperium of Man who can simply shrug off a bullet or a laser or a mass driver, we do need to hide behind a rock or a crate. Well even then the space marines do use cover. So, no, it isn't. This. You can "cover" but it's not an actual in game system just a meta maneuver.
ladwar Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 1576	Posted - 2013.09.12 15:05:00 - [10] - Quote no, more then ever im seeing more blockheads standing out in the middle of the road without a care. this is not a cover game.

Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 715	Posted - 2013.09.12 15:19:00 - [11] - Quote ladwar wrote: no, more then ever im seeing more blockheads standing out in the middle of the road without a care. this is not a cover game. Pad your KDR with their corpses. I agree with the OP, though. It's taking people a bit of time to adjust to the lower time-to-kill, but they're adjusting by putting a premium on caution and tactics. Some fun games lately.
HandOGod Taints of Tartarus 154	Posted - 2013.09.12 15:21:00 - [12] - Quote bjorn morkai wrote: What you are technically referring to is a cover system, which, technicaly, DUST does not have. We have a crouch, this doesn't mean we have a cover system. A game with a cover system includes Time Crysis, Gears of War, Mass Effect, Uncharted, vanquish, basically anything where you glue yourself to a piece of cover, where cover is placed around the game due to the 'unique' way the game is made, and thus it has such a system. DUST does not have such a system, it just has objects in which you SHOULD hide behind otherwise you're gonna get your ass shot and die much quicker. Unfortunately we are not the mighty space marines of the God Emperor's Imperium of Man who can simply shrug off a bullet or a laser or a mass driver, we do need to hide behind a rock or a crate. Well even then the space marines do use cover. So, no, it isn't. Technically schmechnically. Getting cover is a part of the game, just because it doesn't have a button that forces you against a wall in some ridiculous overly dramatic animation doesn't change anything.
bjorn morkai Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 14	Posted - 2013.09.12 15:23:00 - [13] - Quote HandOGod wrote: Technically schmechnically. Getting cover is a part of the game, just because it doesn't have a button that forces you against a wall in some ridiculous overly dramatic animation doesn't change anything. Kay... So technically a car is a wagon without the horses then, right?
Kekklian Noobatronic Goonfeet Top Men. 427	Posted - 2013.09.12 15:27:00 - [14] - Quote Gears of War is a Cover shooter. It has cover interaction mechanics, and cover meaningfully protects you Dust has things you can hide behind. There are no cover interaction mechanics, and the cover usually does not protect you from incoming damage. Dust is not a cover shooter in the slightest.
Justice Prevails Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 4	Posted - 2013.09.12 17:16:00 - [15] - Quote We know it's not a cover shooter. Just saying cover and tactics are used more now than before 1.4.
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp 741	Posted - 2013.09.12 18:07:00 - [16] - Quote While it is not a "cover shooter" I have seen a lot more tactical play. This has shown up in many forms. In general, I see much less zerging, which is fantastic. Battles are over greater distance. Teams have to now out think their opponent. I see people using the topography of the land to move unseen. I see people moving from cover to cover when trying to flank. The zerging blob of Texas Two Steppers era has ended and I couldn't be happier about this.
Terram Nenokal Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 173	Posted - 2013.09.12 18:14:00 - [17] - Quote The game has never been more fun for me. It feels great, and I'm not afraid to say that AA is probably a big factor in why it feels this way. Aiming is still important, but cover and tactics are more important now than aiming. I'm a KB/M user btw, so I don't benefit from AA, for what it's worth.
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 417	Posted - 2013.09.12 18:16:00 - [18] - Quote I would say this is closer to the vision, watching the videos CCP obviously want to drop you quick enough to make you use cover, is it a cover shooter, no there is more to the game than that, and besides there is no actual "cover system", its not a twitch shooter, but we need to be careful it doesn't become 1!!
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. 3427	Posted - 2013.09.12 18:33:00 - [19] - Quote Best infantry match I've had to date was on the new bridge map in an ambush, we spawned at one end, they spawned in the middle, the entire ambush match consisted of our team slowly pushing up along the bridge, moving from cover to cover and suppressing enemy positions as bluedots moved up to it. I didn't get many kills but it was one of the best firefight experiences I've EVR had in dust, the fact that my militia heavy had no reppers on it and our team didn't seem to have anyone carrying a rep tool meant that I was running around with like a 100 armour on a heavy suit, it only added to the tension I felt every time I stuck my head out of cover to suppress the enemy.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 4129	Posted - 2013.09.12 18:44:00 - [20] - Quote I have to agree with the OP on this. As I progress through each match, every battle feels much more strategic and teamwork, cover, and stealth have become much more important than ever before.

Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp 744	Posted - 2013.09.12 18:45:00 - [21] - Quote gbghg wrote: Best infantry match I've had to date was on the new bridge map in an ambush, we spawned at one end, they spawned in the middle, the entire ambush match consisted of our team slowly pushing up along the bridge, moving from cover to cover and suppressing enemy positions as bluedots moved up to it. I didn't get many kills but it was one of the best firefight experiences I've EVR had in dust, the fact that my militia heavy had no reppers on it and our team didn't seem to have anyone carrying a rep tool meant that I was running around with like a 100 armour on a heavy suit, it only added to the tension I felt every time I stuck my head out of cover to suppress the enemy. That map is so fun on Ambush, literally EPIC. Anytime I go into ambush, I want it to be that map!
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 4129	Posted - 2013.09.12 18:48:00 - [22] - Quote bjorn morkai wrote: HandOGod wrote: Technically schmechnically. Getting cover is a part of the game, just because it doesn't have a button that forces you against a wall in some ridiculous overly dramatic animation doesn't change anything. Kay... So technically a car is a wagon without the horses then, right? I would have laughed so hard if it weren't for the fact that technically a car IS considered a horseless carriage.
Cyrius Li-Moody The New Age Outlaws 972	Posted - 2013.09.12 18:51:00 - [23] - Quote Manus Peak, the epitome of cover shooter maps. /s
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1561	Posted - 2013.09.12 18:54:00 - [24] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Manus Peak, the epitome of cover shooter maps. /s Word on the street is that Manus Peak wasn't designed by a map designer or a level designer, but an art person...
Cyrius Li-Moody The New Age Outlaws 972	Posted - 2013.09.12 18:58:00 - [25] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Manus Peak, the epitome of cover shooter maps. /s Word on the street is that Manus Peak wasn't designed by a map designer or a level designer, but an art person... I bet that art guy was a sniper.
bjorn morkai Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 29	Posted - 2013.09.12 18:59:00 - [26] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: I would have laughed so hard if it weren't for the fact that technically a car IS considered a horseless carriage. No see I'm pretty sure a car is considered an automobile, which is a motorized vehicle.
8213 Grade No.2 255	Posted - 2013.09.12 19:10:00 - [27] - Quote Until you get put on a team of half-wits...
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. 3430	Posted - 2013.09.12 19:30:00 - [28] - Quote bjorn morkai wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: I would have laughed so hard if it weren't for the fact that technically a car IS considered a horseless carriage. No see I'm pretty sure a car is considered an automobile, which is a motorized vehicle. Nope they're considered to be a horseless carriage, they were originally advertised as such I believe.
Nihilus Warwick Pradox XVI 56	Posted - 2013.09.12 19:40:00 - [29] - Quote Our Deepest Regret wrote: I've been playing a ton of pub ambush games to grind Isk, and one thing I've really noticed is that the dynamic of these games has changed a lot. You still have vehicle users tearing around the map, but the way Infantry plays seems totally different. There are long exchanges of fire, distance has become really valuable, as has cover, and it seems as though teamwork has become much more valuable. Because both sides are now bunking down for so much of the match, medics have become priceless for keeping clone losses down. Making a push towards the enemy feels a lot more exciting, especially when the momentum is on your side. Getting pushed on when you're losing makes you feel like panicking. I'm not saying the AA is a good thing, but combat does feel a lot more strategic. I still see some guys pulling off 19 kill games, but it seems like they accomplish it through teamwork. Was this always the intended direction for Dust? Technically no, but I freaking love the matchmaking and fights I've been getting lately. People seem to be getting smarter in tactics, and there seems to be balance now. I was rocking a bunch of dominations the other night, and no matter if I won or lost, I felt that it was a great, hard fought match. The losses were usually due to cloning, but the winning team would only have a couple clones left themselves. Good times.
bjorn morkai Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 30	Posted - 2013.09.12 20:12:00 - [30] - Quote gbghg wrote: bjorn morkai wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: I would have laughed so hard if it weren't for the fact that technically a car IS considered a horseless carriage. No see I'm pretty sure a car is considered an automobile, which is a motorized vehicle. Nope they're considered to be a horseless carriage, they were originally advertised as such I believe. boy I hope that's sarcasm...

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 4130	Posted - 2013.09.12 20:46:00 - [31] - Quote bjorn morkai wrote: gbghg wrote: bjorn morkai wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: I would have laughed so hard if it weren't for the fact that technically a car IS considered a horseless carriage. No see I'm pretty sure a car is considered an automobile, which is a motorized vehicle. Nope they're considered to be a horseless carriage, they were originally advertised as such I believe. boy I hope that's sarcasm... It wasn't sarcastic back then. You have to consider how marketing was at the time. It helped to sell more cars by calling it that way.
Jinx Rollin Commando Perkone Caldari State 13	Posted - 2013.09.12 20:47:00 - [32] - Quote bjorn morkai wrote: gbghg wrote: bjorn morkai wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: I would have laughed so hard if it weren't for the fact that technically a car IS considered a horseless carriage. No see I'm pretty sure a car is considered an automobile, which is a motorized vehicle. Nope they're considered to be a horseless carriage, they were originally advertised as such I believe. boy I hope that's sarcasm... Or a lesson in general knowledge.
RydogV Shadow Company HQ 337	Posted - 2013.09.12 21:04:00 - [33] - Quote Combat has become much more dynamic and enjoyable. Everything feels better...small skirmishes with just a few players...large fights around highly contested objectives...and especially great flanking manuvers now that profile detection has been scaled back. I love that it is harder to see enemy drop uplinks and it is harder for them to see ours. Infiltration is viable. The active scanner has become a real asset and when your team doesn't have one...it shows. It will get better once players are better skilled in profile dampening and using the modules. Then even active scanners won't be a guarantee that you don't have enemy in your lines. I hope CCP is sitting back and letting this garbage about aiming mechanics ruining the game blow over. Improvise, adapt and overcome. Dust 514 is fun again. Now bring us even more maps...and for god's sake, more game modes...and the game will be brilliant.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. 3439	Posted - 2013.09.12 22:07:00 - [34] - Quote While combat is undoubtably better, the absence of convenient reddots for the blueberries to Zerg at is getting annoying, the blue berries keep scattering and then get demolished by the reds who blob.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 8397	Posted - 2013.09.12 22:25:00 - [35] - Quote Still learning the new maps and getting used to the new speeds and aim changes but overall tactics and approach to problems remain the same on my end.


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