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Our Deepest Regret
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
180
   |
Posted - 2013.09.12 14:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
I've been playing a ton of pub ambush games to grind Isk, and one thing I've really noticed is that the dynamic of these games has changed a lot. You still have vehicle users tearing around the map, but the way Infantry plays seems totally different. There are long exchanges of fire, distance has become really valuable, as has cover, and it seems as though teamwork has become much more valuable. Because both sides are now bunking down for so much of the match, medics have become priceless for keeping clone losses down. Making a push towards the enemy feels a lot more exciting, especially when the momentum is on your side. Getting pushed on when you're losing makes you feel like panicking.
I'm not saying the AA is a good thing, but combat does feel a lot more strategic. I still see some guys pulling off 19 kill games, but it seems like they accomplish it through teamwork. Was this always the intended direction for Dust? |
HandOGod
Taints of Tartarus
151
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 14:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
I agree.
Also with drop links only being visible directly, and shared vision being removed there's a definite feel that tactics become more important. And people with active scanners are glorious angles.
I'm dying more, not making as much money, but enjoying the game more. |
Sgt Kirk
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
1614
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 14:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
I'm making a lot more money from the tears of my enemies. Thanks to me being an armour tanker for a year I know how to take cover and push an objective. (instead of tap dancing around to avoid bullets like shield users have been doing since the beginning)
I'm making a net gain so much from every match I'm calling in fully fitted assault dropships just for ***** and giggles now.
I got bindas fulla women in my merc quarters. |
Justice Prevails
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 14:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
Don't know if that was the intention. But having more fun now.
|
Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
267
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 14:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
The upgraded offense has made positioning much more important. It's nice to see people slowly adapt to the new circumstances. The fights are getting more static and thus also larger. This plays much less like a bad implementation of Quake 3 Arena than it did before.
I think Dust is better for the aim assist. No more stupid death-dances and much more action. |
Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
1238
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 14:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
This is probably why CCP has yet to respond to the 'discussion' about aim assist and hit detection. They needed to give us time to adapt.
I like the new fights. Once squad deployment is fixed I think 1.4 is a solid improvement. |
bjorn morkai
Sanmatar Kelkoons
Minmatar Republic
11
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 14:43:00 -
[7] - Quote
What you are technically referring to is a cover system, which, technicaly, DUST does not have. We have a crouch, this doesn't mean we have a cover system. A game with a cover system includes Time Crysis, Gears of War, Mass Effect, Uncharted, vanquish, basically anything where you glue yourself to a piece of cover, where cover is placed around the game due to the 'unique' way the game is made, and thus it has such a system. DUST does not have such a system, it just has objects in which you SHOULD hide behind otherwise you're gonna get your ass shot and die much quicker. Unfortunately we are not the mighty space marines of the God Emperor's Imperium of Man who can simply shrug off a bullet or a laser or a mass driver, we do need to hide behind a rock or a crate. Well even then the space marines do use cover.
So, no, it isn't. |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD
885
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 14:48:00 -
[8] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:This is probably why CCP has yet to respond to the 'discussion' about aim assist and hit detection. They needed to give us time to adapt.
...
My thoughts also. |
Roy Ventus
Foxhound Corporation
General Tso's Alliance
489
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 14:53:00 -
[9] - Quote
bjorn morkai wrote:What you are technically referring to is a cover system, which, technicaly, DUST does not have. We have a crouch, this doesn't mean we have a cover system. A game with a cover system includes Time Crysis, Gears of War, Mass Effect, Uncharted, vanquish, basically anything where you glue yourself to a piece of cover, where cover is placed around the game due to the 'unique' way the game is made, and thus it has such a system. DUST does not have such a system, it just has objects in which you SHOULD hide behind otherwise you're gonna get your ass shot and die much quicker. Unfortunately we are not the mighty space marines of the God Emperor's Imperium of Man who can simply shrug off a bullet or a laser or a mass driver, we do need to hide behind a rock or a crate. Well even then the space marines do use cover.
So, no, it isn't.
This. You can "cover" but it's not an actual in game system just a meta maneuver. |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative
Lokun Listamenn
1576
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 15:05:00 -
[10] - Quote
no, more then ever im seeing more blockheads standing out in the middle of the road without a care. this is not a cover game. |
Disturbingly Bored
The Strontium Asylum
715
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 15:19:00 -
[11] - Quote
ladwar wrote:no, more then ever im seeing more blockheads standing out in the middle of the road without a care. this is not a cover game.
Pad your KDR with their corpses.
I agree with the OP, though. It's taking people a bit of time to adjust to the lower time-to-kill, but they're adjusting by putting a premium on caution and tactics. Some fun games lately. |
HandOGod
Taints of Tartarus
154
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 15:21:00 -
[12] - Quote
bjorn morkai wrote:What you are technically referring to is a cover system, which, technicaly, DUST does not have. We have a crouch, this doesn't mean we have a cover system. A game with a cover system includes Time Crysis, Gears of War, Mass Effect, Uncharted, vanquish, basically anything where you glue yourself to a piece of cover, where cover is placed around the game due to the 'unique' way the game is made, and thus it has such a system. DUST does not have such a system, it just has objects in which you SHOULD hide behind otherwise you're gonna get your ass shot and die much quicker. Unfortunately we are not the mighty space marines of the God Emperor's Imperium of Man who can simply shrug off a bullet or a laser or a mass driver, we do need to hide behind a rock or a crate. Well even then the space marines do use cover.
So, no, it isn't.
Technically schmechnically.
Getting cover is a part of the game, just because it doesn't have a button that forces you against a wall in some ridiculous overly dramatic animation doesn't change anything.
|
bjorn morkai
Sanmatar Kelkoons
Minmatar Republic
14
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 15:23:00 -
[13] - Quote
HandOGod wrote:
Technically schmechnically.
Getting cover is a part of the game, just because it doesn't have a button that forces you against a wall in some ridiculous overly dramatic animation doesn't change anything.
Kay...
So technically a car is a wagon without the horses then, right? |
Kekklian Noobatronic
Goonfeet
Top Men.
427
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 15:27:00 -
[14] - Quote
Gears of War is a Cover shooter. It has cover interaction mechanics, and cover meaningfully protects you
Dust has things you can hide behind. There are no cover interaction mechanics, and the cover usually does not protect you from incoming damage.
Dust is not a cover shooter in the slightest. |
Justice Prevails
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 17:16:00 -
[15] - Quote
We know it's not a cover shooter.
Just saying cover and tactics are used more now than before 1.4. |
Master Jaraiya
Ultramarine Corp
741
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 18:07:00 -
[16] - Quote
While it is not a "cover shooter" I have seen a lot more tactical play. This has shown up in many forms. In general, I see much less zerging, which is fantastic. Battles are over greater distance. Teams have to now out think their opponent. I see people using the topography of the land to move unseen. I see people moving from cover to cover when trying to flank.
The zerging blob of Texas Two Steppers era has ended and I couldn't be happier about this. |
Terram Nenokal
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
173
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 18:14:00 -
[17] - Quote
The game has never been more fun for me. It feels great, and I'm not afraid to say that AA is probably a big factor in why it feels this way. Aiming is still important, but cover and tactics are more important now than aiming.
I'm a KB/M user btw, so I don't benefit from AA, for what it's worth. |
Monkey MAC
killer taxi company
General Tso's Alliance
417
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 18:16:00 -
[18] - Quote
I would say this is closer to the vision, watching the videos CCP obviously want to drop you quick enough to make you use cover, is it a cover shooter, no there is more to the game than that, and besides there is no actual "cover system", its not a twitch shooter, but we need to be careful it doesn't become 1!! |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S.
3427
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 18:33:00 -
[19] - Quote
Best infantry match I've had to date was on the new bridge map in an ambush, we spawned at one end, they spawned in the middle, the entire ambush match consisted of our team slowly pushing up along the bridge, moving from cover to cover and suppressing enemy positions as bluedots moved up to it. I didn't get many kills but it was one of the best firefight experiences I've EVR had in dust, the fact that my militia heavy had no reppers on it and our team didn't seem to have anyone carrying a rep tool meant that I was running around with like a 100 armour on a heavy suit, it only added to the tension I felt every time I stuck my head out of cover to suppress the enemy. |
Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
4129
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 18:44:00 -
[20] - Quote
I have to agree with the OP on this. As I progress through each match, every battle feels much more strategic and teamwork, cover, and stealth have become much more important than ever before. |
Master Jaraiya
Ultramarine Corp
744
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 18:45:00 -
[21] - Quote
gbghg wrote:Best infantry match I've had to date was on the new bridge map in an ambush, we spawned at one end, they spawned in the middle, the entire ambush match consisted of our team slowly pushing up along the bridge, moving from cover to cover and suppressing enemy positions as bluedots moved up to it. I didn't get many kills but it was one of the best firefight experiences I've EVR had in dust, the fact that my militia heavy had no reppers on it and our team didn't seem to have anyone carrying a rep tool meant that I was running around with like a 100 armour on a heavy suit, it only added to the tension I felt every time I stuck my head out of cover to suppress the enemy.
That map is so fun on Ambush, literally EPIC. Anytime I go into ambush, I want it to be that map! |
Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
4129
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 18:48:00 -
[22] - Quote
bjorn morkai wrote:HandOGod wrote:
Technically schmechnically.
Getting cover is a part of the game, just because it doesn't have a button that forces you against a wall in some ridiculous overly dramatic animation doesn't change anything.
Kay... So technically a car is a wagon without the horses then, right?
I would have laughed so hard if it weren't for the fact that technically a car IS considered a horseless carriage. |
Cyrius Li-Moody
The New Age Outlaws
972
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 18:51:00 -
[23] - Quote
Manus Peak, the epitome of cover shooter maps. /s |
Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
1561
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 18:54:00 -
[24] - Quote
Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:Manus Peak, the epitome of cover shooter maps. /s
Word on the street is that Manus Peak wasn't designed by a map designer or a level designer, but an art person... |
Cyrius Li-Moody
The New Age Outlaws
972
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 18:58:00 -
[25] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:Manus Peak, the epitome of cover shooter maps. /s Word on the street is that Manus Peak wasn't designed by a map designer or a level designer, but an art person...
I bet that art guy was a sniper. |
bjorn morkai
Sanmatar Kelkoons
Minmatar Republic
29
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 18:59:00 -
[26] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:
I would have laughed so hard if it weren't for the fact that technically a car IS considered a horseless carriage.
No see I'm pretty sure a car is considered an automobile, which is a motorized vehicle. |
8213
Grade No.2
255
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 19:10:00 -
[27] - Quote
Until you get put on a team of half-wits...
|
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S.
3430
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 19:30:00 -
[28] - Quote
bjorn morkai wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:
I would have laughed so hard if it weren't for the fact that technically a car IS considered a horseless carriage.
No see I'm pretty sure a car is considered an automobile, which is a motorized vehicle.
Nope they're considered to be a horseless carriage, they were originally advertised as such I believe. |
Nihilus Warwick
Pradox XVI
56
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 19:40:00 -
[29] - Quote
Our Deepest Regret wrote:I've been playing a ton of pub ambush games to grind Isk, and one thing I've really noticed is that the dynamic of these games has changed a lot. You still have vehicle users tearing around the map, but the way Infantry plays seems totally different. There are long exchanges of fire, distance has become really valuable, as has cover, and it seems as though teamwork has become much more valuable. Because both sides are now bunking down for so much of the match, medics have become priceless for keeping clone losses down. Making a push towards the enemy feels a lot more exciting, especially when the momentum is on your side. Getting pushed on when you're losing makes you feel like panicking.
I'm not saying the AA is a good thing, but combat does feel a lot more strategic. I still see some guys pulling off 19 kill games, but it seems like they accomplish it through teamwork. Was this always the intended direction for Dust?
Technically no, but I freaking love the matchmaking and fights I've been getting lately. People seem to be getting smarter in tactics, and there seems to be balance now. I was rocking a bunch of dominations the other night, and no matter if I won or lost, I felt that it was a great, hard fought match. The losses were usually due to cloning, but the winning team would only have a couple clones left themselves. Good times. |
bjorn morkai
Sanmatar Kelkoons
Minmatar Republic
30
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 20:12:00 -
[30] - Quote
gbghg wrote:bjorn morkai wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:
I would have laughed so hard if it weren't for the fact that technically a car IS considered a horseless carriage.
No see I'm pretty sure a car is considered an automobile, which is a motorized vehicle. Nope they're considered to be a horseless carriage, they were originally advertised as such I believe.
boy I hope that's sarcasm... |
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