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Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
1538
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 12:39:00 -
[1] - Quote
So you thick headed numbsculls haven't figured out that the reason you are dying so fast is because you are fighting within the optimals of the hardest hitting weapon in the game.
Just wait for the combat rifle. I'ts probably going to be a longer range burst, with a better RoF. With its bonus damage to armor, my guess is that it will be more lethal against the hybrid tanking and the superior armored AR users with d-mods. It won't have the TTK of the AR, but it will still be very deadly in that it will be able to pick on you from further away.
So adapt now! Learn how to evade and fight mostly from cover. Stop charging headlong under/at AR fire. Pick up a scrambler rifle and mess around a bit. Make sure someone in your squad is using a support weapon like an MD or laser. Make sure someone has a scanner. If you ARE going to go AR, consider dropping that extra armor module that doesn't help your rate of death THAT much and throw on a dampener that lets you hide from ADV scanners so that you can get the jump on more people. |
Lorhak Gannarsein
Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION
320
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 12:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
BUT I CAN'T ADAPT BECAUSE MY NUMB SKULL IS TOO THICK so is my tank hull :)
But yeah, I drop into random corp squads in pubs and I'm the only one with a scanner. |
Rei Shepard
Spectre II
544
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 12:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:BUT I CAN'T ADAPT BECAUSE MY NUMB SKULL IS TOO THICK so is my tank hull :)
But yeah, I drop into random corp squads in pubs and I'm the only one with a scanner.
Situational Awareness > Scanner |
Harpyja
DUST University Ivy League
571
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 12:43:00 -
[4] - Quote
It doesn't really help if the Tac AR has a longer optimal than the ScR... (I believe, correct me if wrong).
But the rest of your points look good. I wonder how the rail rifle will change things. |
Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
1538
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 12:46:00 -
[5] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:It doesn't really help if the Tac AR has a longer optimal than the ScR... (I believe, correct me if wrong).
But the rest of your points look good. I wonder how the rail rifle will change things.
It is at the moment.
However, this has recently been acknowledged and either the ScR is going to change or the Tac AR will or we will get a complete overhaul so that all rifles will exist in theoretical harmony. |
Lorhak Gannarsein
Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION
320
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 12:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
Rei Shepard wrote:Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:BUT I CAN'T ADAPT BECAUSE MY NUMB SKULL IS TOO THICK so is my tank hull :)
But yeah, I drop into random corp squads in pubs and I'm the only one with a scanner. Situational Awareness > Scanner
Scanner = Situational Awareness. |
Hellkeizer
The Avutora Complex
75
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 12:47:00 -
[7] - Quote
Any new weapon is going to change the game and that's why CCP needs the racial variants before balancing the weapons we have |
Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
1538
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 12:47:00 -
[8] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Rei Shepard wrote:Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:BUT I CAN'T ADAPT BECAUSE MY NUMB SKULL IS TOO THICK so is my tank hull :)
But yeah, I drop into random corp squads in pubs and I'm the only one with a scanner. Situational Awareness > Scanner Scanner = Situational Awareness.
I LOVE LOVE LOVE the logic in the forums!!! |
True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1917
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 12:50:00 -
[9] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:So you thick headed numbsculls haven't figured out that the reason you are dying so fast is because you are fighting within the optimals of the hardest hitting weapon in the game.
Just wait for the combat rifle. I'ts probably going to be a longer range burst, with a better RoF. With its bonus damage to armor, my guess is that it will be more lethal against the hybrid tanking and the superior armored AR users with d-mods. It won't have the TTK of the AR, but it will still be very deadly in that it will be able to pick on you from further away.
So adapt now! Learn how to evade and fight mostly from cover. Stop charging headlong under/at AR fire. Pick up a scrambler rifle and mess around a bit. Make sure someone in your squad is using a support weapon like an MD or laser. Make sure someone has a scanner. If you ARE going to go AR, consider dropping that extra armor module that doesn't help your rate of death THAT much and throw on a dampener that lets you hide from ADV scanners so that you can get the jump on more people. Projectile Tech is short range tech in EVE and therefore similarly in Dust. |
Lorhak Gannarsein
Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION
321
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 12:51:00 -
[10] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Rei Shepard wrote:Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:BUT I CAN'T ADAPT BECAUSE MY NUMB SKULL IS TOO THICK so is my tank hull :)
But yeah, I drop into random corp squads in pubs and I'm the only one with a scanner. Situational Awareness > Scanner Scanner = Situational Awareness. I LOVE LOVE LOVE the logic in the forums!!!
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Jack McReady
DUST University Ivy League
514
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 12:54:00 -
[11] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Beren Hurin wrote:So you thick headed numbsculls haven't figured out that the reason you are dying so fast is because you are fighting within the optimals of the hardest hitting weapon in the game.
Just wait for the combat rifle. I'ts probably going to be a longer range burst, with a better RoF. With its bonus damage to armor, my guess is that it will be more lethal against the hybrid tanking and the superior armored AR users with d-mods. It won't have the TTK of the AR, but it will still be very deadly in that it will be able to pick on you from further away.
So adapt now! Learn how to evade and fight mostly from cover. Stop charging headlong under/at AR fire. Pick up a scrambler rifle and mess around a bit. Make sure someone in your squad is using a support weapon like an MD or laser. Make sure someone has a scanner. If you ARE going to go AR, consider dropping that extra armor module that doesn't help your rate of death THAT much and throw on a dampener that lets you hide from ADV scanners so that you can get the jump on more people. Projectile Tech is short range tech in EVE and therefore similarly in Dust. it can outgun hybrids in falloff range though
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Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
1538
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 12:56:00 -
[12] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Beren Hurin wrote:So you thick headed numbsculls haven't figured out that the reason you are dying so fast is because you are fighting within the optimals of the hardest hitting weapon in the game.
Just wait for the combat rifle. I'ts probably going to be a longer range burst, with a better RoF. With its bonus damage to armor, my guess is that it will be more lethal against the hybrid tanking and the superior armored AR users with d-mods. It won't have the TTK of the AR, but it will still be very deadly in that it will be able to pick on you from further away.
So adapt now! Learn how to evade and fight mostly from cover. Stop charging headlong under/at AR fire. Pick up a scrambler rifle and mess around a bit. Make sure someone in your squad is using a support weapon like an MD or laser. Make sure someone has a scanner. If you ARE going to go AR, consider dropping that extra armor module that doesn't help your rate of death THAT much and throw on a dampener that lets you hide from ADV scanners so that you can get the jump on more people. Projectile Tech is short range tech in EVE and therefore similarly in Dust.
You know about this devblog right?
http://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/07/weapon-ranges-in-uprising-1.2-and-beyond/
Anyway, it is fairly short range in eve, but it's falloff is pretty wicked, which means its hard to get outside of the range where it can still be damaging. This is in contrast to blasters, which are easy to outrange (which is what half of this thread was about and what you dumb folks can't figure out!!)
Minmatar fighting style revolves around hitting your opponent fast, avoiding damage rather than tanking it, and controlling when and where you fight so as to minimize risk. |
Rei Shepard
Spectre II
545
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 13:01:00 -
[13] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Beren Hurin wrote:Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Rei Shepard wrote:Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:BUT I CAN'T ADAPT BECAUSE MY NUMB SKULL IS TOO THICK so is my tank hull :)
But yeah, I drop into random corp squads in pubs and I'm the only one with a scanner. Situational Awareness > Scanner Scanner = Situational Awareness. I LOVE LOVE LOVE the logic in the forums!!!
lol, if you need that thing to see something on the field, yer blind. |
Lorhak Gannarsein
Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION
323
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 13:05:00 -
[14] - Quote
Rei Shepard wrote:lol, if you need that thing to see something on the field, yer blind.
lol, I guess I need to learn to see through walls then.
Although, why bother, not like I need to see half the enemy team pushing my location or anything, right? |
Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
1538
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 13:08:00 -
[15] - Quote
Jack McReady wrote:True Adamance wrote: Projectile Tech is short range tech in EVE and therefore similarly in Dust.
it can outgun hybrids in falloff range though
Yeah pretty much this.
In Eve, if a Gallente blaster boat lands on top of you and you cant get away YOU DIE. If you CAN get away and outside of its effective range AND hold it down you have a GOOD CHANCE at taking it down.
Minmatar gets around the blaster threat by either kiting the blasters outside their range, fighting a cap warfare battle first to nuetralize its blasters and scrams, or speed tanking under the guns of the blasters while flying faster than they can track. |
Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
1538
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 13:09:00 -
[16] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Rei Shepard wrote:lol, if you need that thing to see something on the field, yer blind. lol, I guess I need to learn to see through walls then. Although, why bother, not like I need to see half the enemy team pushing my location or anything, right?
Yeah don't forget about how the scanner is now the only thing that broadcasts what you see to your squad. |
True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1917
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 13:11:00 -
[17] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:Jack McReady wrote:True Adamance wrote: Projectile Tech is short range tech in EVE and therefore similarly in Dust.
it can outgun hybrids in falloff range though Yeah pretty much this. In Eve, if a Gallente blaster boat lands on top of you and you cant get away YOU DIE. If you CAN get away and outside of its effective range AND hold it down you have a GOOD CHANCE at taking it down. Minmatar gets around the blaster threat by either kiting the blasters outside their range, fighting a cap warfare battle first to nuetralize its blasters and scrams, or speed tanking under the guns of the blasters while flying faster than they can track.
Admittedly that is hybrids really only cover blasters since rails kind of suck for anything other than 150km sniping.
Don't I know their neuting capacity. Saps my lasers dry before I can get a good volley off. |
Rei Shepard
Spectre II
545
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 13:19:00 -
[18] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Rei Shepard wrote:lol, if you need that thing to see something on the field, yer blind. lol, I guess I need to learn to see through walls then. Although, why bother, not like I need to see half the enemy team pushing my location or anything, right?
Whats the fun in knowing how many enemies are going to pop from behind the next wall ? ZERO ill tell you, Rounding a corner is like unwrapping a surprise party and then blowing out the moving candles! Being able to walk away from it all is just icing on the cake. |
Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
1539
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 13:34:00 -
[19] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Beren Hurin wrote:
Yeah pretty much this.
In Eve, if a Gallente blaster boat lands on top of you and you cant get away YOU DIE. If you CAN get away and outside of its effective range AND hold it down you have a GOOD CHANCE at taking it down.
Minmatar gets around the blaster threat by either kiting the blasters outside their range, fighting a cap warfare battle first to nuetralize its blasters and scrams, or speed tanking under the guns of the blasters while flying faster than they can track.
Admittedly that is hybrids really only cover blasters since rails kind of suck for anything other than 150km sniping. Don't I know their neuting capacity. Saps my lasers dry before I can get a good volley off.
Yeah its typically Caldari fighting Gallente ships, at least in FW. And if gallente boats are brought out in lowsec/nullsec PvP, they are normally using drone boats which really don't have a parallel in Dust.
Also, the preferred Caldari weapons are missiles rather than rails, but missiles' biggest advantages are their ability to pick their damage type and how hard it is to avoid them. That being said, rail rifles will probably be great anti armor weapons, and potentially one of the lowest CPU using long range weapons available. They will be the best rifle for taking out the Gallente Plasma rifle users because of their range and anti-armor nature. I could see the rail rifles becoming similar to the old TAC-ARs from chromosome but with their own significant drawback.
If their RoF could progressively get slower as they heat, that could be the balancer that makes them less effective at close range. |
True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1917
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 13:43:00 -
[20] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:True Adamance wrote:Beren Hurin wrote:
Yeah pretty much this.
In Eve, if a Gallente blaster boat lands on top of you and you cant get away YOU DIE. If you CAN get away and outside of its effective range AND hold it down you have a GOOD CHANCE at taking it down.
Minmatar gets around the blaster threat by either kiting the blasters outside their range, fighting a cap warfare battle first to nuetralize its blasters and scrams, or speed tanking under the guns of the blasters while flying faster than they can track.
Admittedly that is hybrids really only cover blasters since rails kind of suck for anything other than 150km sniping. Don't I know their neuting capacity. Saps my lasers dry before I can get a good volley off. Yeah its typically Caldari fighting Gallente ships, at least in FW. And if gallente boats are brought out in lowsec/nullsec PvP, they are normally using drone boats which really don't have a parallel in Dust. Also, the preferred Caldari weapons are missiles rather than rails, but missiles' biggest advantages are their ability to pick their damage type and how hard it is to avoid them. That being said, rail rifles will probably be great anti armor weapons, and potentially one of the lowest CPU using long range weapons available. They will be the best rifle for taking out the Gallente Plasma rifle users because of their range and anti-armor nature. I could see the rail rifles becoming similar to the old TAC-ARs from chromosome but with their own significant drawback. If their RoF could progressively get slower as they heat, that could be the balancer that makes them less effective at close range.
This is true however I thought it had been confirmed that
Rail- Longest Scrambler- Long Combat- Mid Blaster- Low
in terms of racial assault rifle range profiles. |
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Roy Ventus
Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance
488
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 13:46:00 -
[21] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:So you thick headed numbsculls haven't figured out that the reason you are dying so fast is because you are fighting within the optimals of the hardest hitting weapon in the game.
Just wait for the combat rifle. I'ts probably going to be a longer range burst, with a better RoF. With its bonus damage to armor, my guess is that it will be more lethal against the hybrid tanking and the superior armored AR users with d-mods. It won't have the TTK of the AR, but it will still be very deadly in that it will be able to pick on you from further away.
So adapt now! Learn how to evade and fight mostly from cover. Stop charging headlong under/at AR fire. Pick up a scrambler rifle and mess around a bit. Make sure someone in your squad is using a support weapon like an MD or laser. Make sure someone has a scanner. If you ARE going to go AR, consider dropping that extra armor module that doesn't help your rate of death THAT much and throw on a dampener that lets you hide from ADV scanners so that you can get the jump on more people.
no what r u doin', don't tell them to stop running head first into my ironsight's of fury. |
Cass Caul
Namtar Elite Gallente Federation
86
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 13:46:00 -
[22] - Quote
Auto-Cannons have more range than Railguns :/ They have for the past 5-6 years now.
I miss the days when people actually wanted to use hybrid turrets... not just felt like they were stuck with them after several million SP investment. |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD
880
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 14:29:00 -
[23] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Beren Hurin wrote:So you thick headed numbsculls haven't figured out that the reason you are dying so fast is because you are fighting within the optimals of the hardest hitting weapon in the game.
Just wait for the combat rifle. I'ts probably going to be a longer range burst, with a better RoF. With its bonus damage to armor, my guess is that it will be more lethal against the hybrid tanking and the superior armored AR users with d-mods. It won't have the TTK of the AR, but it will still be very deadly in that it will be able to pick on you from further away.
So adapt now! Learn how to evade and fight mostly from cover. Stop charging headlong under/at AR fire. Pick up a scrambler rifle and mess around a bit. Make sure someone in your squad is using a support weapon like an MD or laser. Make sure someone has a scanner. If you ARE going to go AR, consider dropping that extra armor module that doesn't help your rate of death THAT much and throw on a dampener that lets you hide from ADV scanners so that you can get the jump on more people. Projectile Tech is short range tech in EVE and therefore similarly in Dust. I'd say more like mid-range with slow falloff.
Edit: Sorry, posted too soon - i see lots of other peeps got on this already. |
Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
1539
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 14:40:00 -
[24] - Quote
Oh yeah, the other bonus to projectile weapons in Eve at least is how easy they are to fit compared to the other close range weapons.
To give you an idea, I just read that, "flying Minmatar ships is like riding a wheelchair down a staircase while wildly firing two Uzis and screaming" |
Rogatien Merc
Red Star. EoN.
1123
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 17:21:00 -
[25] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:Minmatar fighting style revolves around hitting your opponent fast, avoiding damage rather than tanking it, and controlling when and where you fight so as to minimize risk. Yeah! The same way US Army Infantry doctrine is extremely similar to both US Air Force / Navy's Air-to-Air / Naval doctrines!
... |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance
3139
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 17:24:00 -
[26] - Quote
Cass Caul wrote:Auto-Cannons have more range than Railguns :/ They have for the past 5-6 years now.
I miss the days when people actually wanted to use hybrid turrets... not just felt like they were stuck with them after several million SP investment. No they don't?
Maybe if you use a bunch of tracking enhancers on a range bonused ship against an unbonused ship without range mods, but railguns far outrange autocannons.
Notice how people use Nagas to snipe from 200km and not Tornadoes with ACs? |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance
3139
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 17:26:00 -
[27] - Quote
I'd like to add my prediction to this thread: The Rail Rifle will become the weapon of choice for many, as it ends up having the same range as a sniper rifle while firing 120 damage slugs at 800 RPM with high accuracy, fully automatic, with a clip size of 70. |
Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
1541
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 17:34:00 -
[28] - Quote
Rogatien Merc wrote:Beren Hurin wrote:Minmatar fighting style revolves around hitting your opponent fast, avoiding damage rather than tanking it, and controlling when and where you fight so as to minimize risk. Yeah! The same way US Army Infantry doctrine is extremely similar to both US Air Force / Navy's Air-to-Air / Naval doctrines! ...
CCP has shown that they are applying both the tanking doctrine and the weapon damage profiles, along with damage application doctrines of each race from Eve for the most part.
You combine damage mitigation and damage application and you basically get the upper and lower limits of infantry tactics for each race. |
CommanderBolt
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
275
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 18:03:00 -
[29] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:Rei Shepard wrote:lol, if you need that thing to see something on the field, yer blind. lol, I guess I need to learn to see through walls then. Although, why bother, not like I need to see half the enemy team pushing my location or anything, right?
Yea you try being a sneaky scout without the scanner. Haha good luck. I'll keep my duvolle 15Db beast mode scanner thank you. |
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