DUST Search - [Idea] %HP based Armor Repair Modules

Kekklian Noobatronic wrote:

lithkul devant wrote:

Django Quik wrote:

Progressive armor return based upon suit type is really not much different to what we have at the moment - it's just not needed.

Actually it would be vastly different since 2% of 400 is a lot more then 3% of 100, I was pointing out though that light suits need a little bit of love also and not to be forgotten by the way sides. Which was one of the complaints within the forum, that light suits would be getting messed over even more. Also, I'm not suggesting that these be the actual number, just giving an easy example of why Heavy suits should not be getting a high percentage compared to light. The max for a heavy suit though I would believe, could be at maybe 3% more like 2.5%, because at 800 hps is 24 hp/s which is nearly to powerful (800*.03=24), you might say right now that no way a heavy could ever get to this point, but we have yet to see what a Gallente heavy would be, which I think could easily be 800-900hps on just armor alone. Which is why I think percentage based healing could be very important to armor suits in the future. However, it needs to be kept in check and not let the percentages get to high at all. Also, do not quote the numbers I just used, they are just examples make up your own determinations if this is a good or bad idea.

Everyone sees big repair numbers, but at the heart of it it's not that OP. When a heavy can be dropped in under 2-3 seconds, you're only talking a total of between 75-100 HP repaired, which is 2-3 bullets worth of damage. In sustained fire situations, the only thing this would accomplish is perhaps giving the heavy a chance to react before they're mercilessly gunned down. Right now, heavies don't even have time to react before they get destroyed by AR's.

I imagine CCP won't ever nerf weapon Time to Kill, so something needs to be done about survivablity and time to combat-ready.

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Komodo Jones Chaotik Serenity 119	Posted - 2013.09.11 21:00:00 - [31] - Quote Don't tell me you're talking about the logi suit bonus being a percentage too, even without that a couple of complex armor reppers could make me pretty much invincible, 10% per second? and I can bring that up to like 600 armor on my logi easily so about 60 armor/sec, thats more than shields...lol. Maybe have a variant for percentage but those levels would be waaaay too powerful, maybe like 3% max, otherwise I could probably walk up to a heavy as he's trying to gun me down.
CLONE117 Planetary Response Organization Test Friends Please Ignore 336	Posted - 2013.09.11 21:03:00 - [32] - Quote ^ and this is one reason why armor rep modules r currently the way they r currently...
lithkul devant Legions of Infinite Dominion 60	Posted - 2013.09.11 21:52:00 - [33] - Quote Komodo Jones wrote: Don't tell me you're talking about the logi suit bonus being a percentage too, even without that a couple of complex armor reppers could make me pretty much invincible, 10% per second? and I can bring that up to like 600 armor on my logi easily so about 60 armor/sec, thats more than shields...lol. Maybe have a variant for percentage but those levels would be waaaay too powerful, maybe like 3% max, otherwise I could probably walk up to a heavy as he's trying to gun me down. Learn to read noob, I was not ever saying it should be 10% I was saying 10% as an example of the difference between a 400 and a 100 hps....Sorry but you deserve the scorn for not even bothering to read.
lithkul devant Legions of Infinite Dominion 60	Posted - 2013.09.11 21:55:00 - [34] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Progressive armor return based upon suit type is really not much different to what we have at the moment - it's just not needed. Actually it would be vastly different since 2% of 400 is a lot more then 3% of 100, I was pointing out though that light suits need a little bit of love also and not to be forgotten by the way sides. Which was one of the complaints within the forum, that light suits would be getting messed over even more. Also, I'm not suggesting that these be the actual number, just giving an easy example of why Heavy suits should not be getting a high percentage compared to light.
gargantuise aaron Sanguine Knights 141	Posted - 2013.09.11 22:11:00 - [35] - Quote Sure as long as they remove flux nades give 50 more hp at mlt level to shields and cut charge delay un half Armor is a stand your ground type you get lots more hp les regen Shields are pop out gun and pop back in less HP better regen Btw I dual tank caldari, i have 280 s 230 a and a basic repper, if you want more regening pop in a single shield extender it makes a great buffer for repairing
Text Grant Conspiratus Immortalis 144	Posted - 2013.09.12 05:12:00 - [36] - Quote No. This would make any heavy OP
Kekklian Noobatronic Goonfeet Top Men. 422	Posted - 2013.09.12 10:58:00 - [37] - Quote Text Grant wrote: No. This would make any heavy OP No, it would make the heavy viable.
Kekklian Noobatronic Goonfeet Top Men. 422	Posted - 2013.09.12 11:01:00 - [38] - Quote lithkul devant wrote: Django Quik wrote: Progressive armor return based upon suit type is really not much different to what we have at the moment - it's just not needed. Actually it would be vastly different since 2% of 400 is a lot more then 3% of 100, I was pointing out though that light suits need a little bit of love also and not to be forgotten by the way sides. Which was one of the complaints within the forum, that light suits would be getting messed over even more. Also, I'm not suggesting that these be the actual number, just giving an easy example of why Heavy suits should not be getting a high percentage compared to light. The max for a heavy suit though I would believe, could be at maybe 3% more like 2.5%, because at 800 hps is 24 hp/s which is nearly to powerful (800*.03=24), you might say right now that no way a heavy could ever get to this point, but we have yet to see what a Gallente heavy would be, which I think could easily be 800-900hps on just armor alone. Which is why I think percentage based healing could be very important to armor suits in the future. However, it needs to be kept in check and not let the percentages get to high at all. Also, do not quote the numbers I just used, they are just examples make up your own determinations if this is a good or bad idea. Everyone sees big repair numbers, but at the heart of it it's not that OP. When a heavy can be dropped in under 2-3 seconds, you're only talking a total of between 75-100 HP repaired, which is 2-3 bullets worth of damage. In sustained fire situations, the only thing this would accomplish is perhaps giving the heavy a chance to react before they're mercilessly gunned down. Right now, heavies don't even have time to react before they get destroyed by AR's. I imagine CCP won't ever nerf weapon Time to Kill, so something needs to be done about survivablity and time to combat-ready.
Kekklian Noobatronic Goonfeet Top Men. 422	Posted - 2013.09.12 11:07:00 - [39] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Kekklian Noobatronic wrote: The-Errorist wrote: This is not needed. This would nerf lights frames, nerf Minmatar, and make heavies repair more armor than shields per second, as well as not need as much repair support. 1) I've said it already - Light frames need more help than the scope of this. Besides, light frames don't really armor tank, now do they? No, they don't armor tank; they armor rep tank. With their few advantages being speed and stealth, it's all about darting in and out of cover and using their innate high shield reps and a complex armor repper to get to full health again quickly. Whilst other suits can properly armor tank and take lots of damage while fending off attackers, even with extra plates, you're not tanking anything in a light suit. With a current complex repper you get 100 armour in 16 seconds. That's not bad, especially considering (bugs aside) there's no delay on armour repping like there is (supposed to be - still not sure if this bug got fixed in 1.4) with shields. With some suits you can stack several of these and be constantly repping 25 armor per second even under fire! Having reps percentage based makes them massively beneficial for high armor suits and meaningless for anyone else. You should not be able to tank high armour and high reps - it should be a trade off of one or the other, just like it is with shields. I hate to burst your bubble, but comparing two suits at 5% armor(one heavy, one light) - with no additional buffer - they will both get repaired to full in the exact same amount of time. Furthermore, each suit has advantages and disadvantages. Light suits aside(they suck and are confirmed to get love in 1.6), the disadvantages that Heavies have in terms of getting back into the fight are way higher than those of a Medium frame, which can pack equipment AND buffer itself on-par with a heavy suit. I know everyone is freaking out that this is "OMFG SO OP", but seriously. Stop looking at it on paper and think. You can drop a heavy - even one with a buffer tank up to 1300 EHP - with a militia AR in a matter of seconds. They're super slow(especially with that much buffer), and a massive target. Adding 100 EHP via reps during the course of the firefight is not going to dramatically change the engagement. All it's going to do is allow them - should they get away - to get back in the fight in a reasonable amount of time.
KalOfTheRathi Black Phoenix Mercenaries 701	Posted - 2013.09.12 12:23:00 - [40] - Quote Sorry, this is how it works. Yes, it would be great if it did percentages. It doesn't. If you are running Heavy with huge armor values you need a Logi Bro. Who has a great Repair Tool. Or Armor repair hives (Proto give 70HP/sec). Or STD level Armor Hives and Repair Tools. Then you can stay alive if you get back when damaged and don't jump back in until you are fully repaired. Same happens with Shields. Some piddly amount comes back every second. If you drop the max amount of shields you can run the energizers that will boost it back quicker. But the boost is based on the piddly rate getting increased. Not providing a percentage of your shields back. DUST is a game of balances. Many games are but DUST takes that to certain extremes. Congratulations. You found one of them.

Kekklian Noobatronic Goonfeet Top Men. 428	Posted - 2013.09.12 15:01:00 - [41] - Quote KalOfTheRathi wrote: Sorry, this is how it works. Yes, it would be great if it did percentages. It doesn't. If you are running Heavy with huge armor values you need a Logi Bro. Who has a great Repair Tool. Or Armor repair hives (Proto give 70HP/sec). Or STD level Armor Hives and Repair Tools. Then you can stay alive if you get back when damaged and don't jump back in until you are fully repaired. Same happens with Shields. Some piddly amount comes back every second. If you drop the max amount of shields you can run the energizers that will boost it back quicker. But the boost is based on the piddly rate getting increased. Not providing a percentage of your shields back. DUST is a game of balances. Many games are but DUST takes that to certain extremes. Congratulations. You found one of them. Shields have varying rates of repair, but armor modules do not :/ Medium shield tankers can reach 500-600 buffer(no small amount), and are not penalized in their repair rates(25hp/sec). They also have modules to increase their recharge rate and delay. And we don't even have Caldari Heavies yet. Imagine how high their sheilds will reach, and they will still get the inherent 25hp/sec repair rates. Then imagine Galente Heavies. No built in repair for them, getting stuck with the same crappy 6.25 hp/sec modules. Yea, that's fair right? Armor tankers have a piddly 6.25HP/sec repair module, with no way to modify that. Everyone thinks that 'buffer tank' is everything. Again I say, I should not require a Logistics player at my back to be effective. If I want to run a small buffer with a decent level of repair, why is that such an invalid request? So what I'm armor tanker - give me the tools to armor tank and be effective, without relying on a single, eventually suicidal play style. Not everyone likes squads or has friends to play with you know. Solo players should not be penalized just because "Oh well, there are logistics players that can repair you". That is why armor repair needs a re-evaluation. Right now, shield tanking is dominant because it's given the tools it needs to be effective. Armor tankers do not have those tools, and giving the ability to have repairs based off the suits intended purpose(it's starting stats) if not 'game breaking'. It allows suits to fit the way they were intended, and successfully fulfill those roles. I can say right now, I feel bad for Galente heavies because we'll never see any under the current system. Caldari heavies will have too much of an advantage due to their higher built in regen values. Hopefully CCP overhauls armor repair. If not the way I suggested, then at least some way.
lithkul devant Legions of Infinite Dominion 62	Posted - 2013.09.12 16:29:00 - [42] - Quote Kekklian Noobatronic wrote: lithkul devant wrote: Django Quik wrote: Progressive armor return based upon suit type is really not much different to what we have at the moment - it's just not needed. Actually it would be vastly different since 2% of 400 is a lot more then 3% of 100, I was pointing out though that light suits need a little bit of love also and not to be forgotten by the way sides. Which was one of the complaints within the forum, that light suits would be getting messed over even more. Also, I'm not suggesting that these be the actual number, just giving an easy example of why Heavy suits should not be getting a high percentage compared to light. The max for a heavy suit though I would believe, could be at maybe 3% more like 2.5%, because at 800 hps is 24 hp/s which is nearly to powerful (800*.03=24), you might say right now that no way a heavy could ever get to this point, but we have yet to see what a Gallente heavy would be, which I think could easily be 800-900hps on just armor alone. Which is why I think percentage based healing could be very important to armor suits in the future. However, it needs to be kept in check and not let the percentages get to high at all. Also, do not quote the numbers I just used, they are just examples make up your own determinations if this is a good or bad idea. Everyone sees big repair numbers, but at the heart of it it's not that OP. When a heavy can be dropped in under 2-3 seconds, you're only talking a total of between 75-100 HP repaired, which is 2-3 bullets worth of damage. In sustained fire situations, the only thing this would accomplish is perhaps giving the heavy a chance to react before they're mercilessly gunned down. Right now, heavies don't even have time to react before they get destroyed by AR's. I imagine CCP won't ever nerf weapon Time to Kill, so something needs to be done about survivablity and time to combat-ready. It's really not OP at all considering I was doing math of what a Gallente heavy would be like, which means the shields for the heavy would probably be at 200 and the repair rate on the shields would be worse then what is on the current Amarr heavy. People would be directly shooting into the armor of this heavy most of the time, the armor repairer would only be absorbing like you said 2-3 extra bullets during the engagement, the heavy would still have to repair a lot of damage at a slower repair rate then most shields, I also mentioned during it that 3% would be high and the more likely value would be around 2.5% which would have it be doing around 20 per tick, this would be considered probably the proto version of the percentile repairers for the heavies. Compare that to the current logi's who can get 40 shield a second I think (not entirely sure), 1-5 armor a second just for skilling up the logi chain and can have over 400-500 shields and 400 armor as well, this by itself already beats my example of the potential Gallente heavy in Ehp and effectiveness of recharge as the logis already currently beat the Amarr heavies often enough in Ehp as well or least come very close to the same totals yet the logis are way better if they are just combat focussed and are not trying to heal others.
Django Quik Dust2Dust. Top Men. 1437	Posted - 2013.09.12 20:03:00 - [43] - Quote Like I mentioned previously, you have to choose between the different types of tanking - if you can armor tank and armor rep tank at the same time, that is too strong. That said, I agree that current reppers are a tad too weak and perhaps a proto rep rate of 8hp/s or even 10hp/s would be more worthwhile. But any kind of % based repper is far stronger for heavies and other high armor suits than anyone else. Yes, it will rep all suits to full health in the same but how is that fair? Repping a heavy at 25hp/s and a light at 5hp/s? If you changed it for each suit (an awfully confusing complication both to code and to understand) you could make it so that heavies get 3%, mediums 6% and lights 10%... oh wait, that's pretty much exactly the same as 2 complex reppers now! Good job, let's keep them as they are then.
Epicsting pro Planetary Response Organization Test Friends Please Ignore 273	Posted - 2013.09.22 04:59:00 - [44] - Quote I openly support higher armor regen.
Django Quik Dust2Dust. Top Men. 1500	Posted - 2013.09.22 07:20:00 - [45] - Quote Epicsting pro wrote: I openly support higher armor regen. Yes, higher armour regen. That would be achieved by buffing repair mods, not by making new mods that create a huge imbalance across all suit types.


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