CCP, this is probably the last nail in the coffin for me as a dropship pilot, and I'm here to let you know why. In my first match that i had to wait over 8 minutes for (the estimated wait time was 1:20) the match i got into was Ashland domination, as it appears that many others are being shuffled into that match. Except when I finally got into the match, there were only 4 people on each side, for the entire game, and one was a forge-gunner.

He had a militia forge which originally does absolutely nothing to my proto ADS with 4,062 shields, except this time, with each shot he took out 2,000 shield instantly. That's right, even a militia forge gun can now 3-shot a proto ADS with 4 ward shield extenders. You have royally ****** up with this update CCP, the wait time will deter any potential new members you could get, along with the fact that there are only very few people in each match, and it's not because people aren't online either, there are many people on. Good luck surviving the massive wipe that will be known as the Dust Ice-age.

Dude you must have been on soon, a lot of people are still downloading so give that time. It will be a day or two before the numbers go back to normal.

To be honest a militia forge gun with just a damage mod or two would probably 3 shot your dropship. Now with the aiming fix he is more likely to get the shots on target.

Its unlikely but he could have had forge proficiency level up for increased damage too.

Its always been that way with a dropship lol sorry about the camera angles.

CCP, this is probably the last nail in the coffin for me as a dropship pilot, and I'm here to let you know why. In my first match that i had to wait over 8 minutes for (the estimated wait time was 1:20) the match i got into was Ashland domination, as it appears that many others are being shuffled into that match. Except when I finally got into the match, there were only 4 people on each side, for the entire game, and one was a forge-gunner.

He had a militia forge which originally does absolutely nothing to my proto ADS with 4,062 shields, except this time, with each shot he took out 2,000 shield instantly. That's right, even a militia forge gun can now 3-shot a proto ADS with 4 ward shield extenders. Not only that, but in your view of "fixing a camera", that means that all you do is re-position the source point to the front of the dropship so we can sort of look downwards but still not really, and the camera swings violently when you try to aim at things. And with this camera now in the front, if you try to look at your back, the entire camera is taken up by the back of the dropship and you can't see anything.

I can't even see my entire dropship at all in 3rd person anymore. You have royally ****** up with this update CCP, the wait time will deter any potential new members you could get, along with the fact that there are only very few people in each match, and it's not because people aren't online either, there are many people on. Good luck surviving the massive wipe that will be known as the Dust Ice-age.

are you 100% positive is was only one forge...if it was two team firing you in unison i can see that......or he could have been using that cheat people are so fond of now on his rounds..i doubt ccp would knowingly do something that stupid i mean really they havnt quiet convinced me they are that thick skulled this past year or 2

How do you know he was MLT? I ran the math - even with 2 10% damage mods, and 12% proficiency (very unlikely), his max damage output is roundabout 1650 per shot. That's before your 10% damage reduction from FG vs Shields. That would drop the damage to around 1500. If you have passive modifiers, it would go down even further.

More than likely? You were being hit by something more powerful than an MLT FG.

Furthermore, count your blessings. If it was me, i'd be hitting you with about 3.5k or more. You got off light.

If he has proficiency up to 5 and was wearing the 'Neo' Heavy ak.0 with 3 complex damage mods he could do ~2106 damage per shot; or if it was just a suit with 2 high slots then it would be ~2004 damage per shot.

How do you know he was MLT? I ran the math - even with 2 10% damage mods, and 12% proficiency (very unlikely), his max damage output is roundabout 1650 per shot. That's before your 10% damage reduction from FG vs Shields. That would drop the damage to around 1500. If you have passive modifiers, it would go down even further.

More than likely? You were being hit by something more powerful than an MLT FG.

Furthermore, count your blessings. If it was me, i'd be hitting you with about 3.5k or more. You got off light.

I wonder if dropships have a weakspot now maybe?

Not only that, but in your view of "fixing a camera", that means that all you do is re-position the source point to the front of the dropship so we can sort of look downwards but still not really, and the camera swings violently when you try to aim at things. And with this camera now in the front, if you try to look at your back, the entire camera is taken up by the back of the dropship and you can't see anything.

CCP, this is probably the last nail in the coffin for me as a dropship pilot, and I'm here to let you know why. In my first match that i had to wait over 8 minutes for (the estimated wait time was 1:20) the match i got into was Ashland domination, as it appears that many others are being shuffled into that match. Except when I finally got into the match, there were only 4 people on each side, for the entire game, and one was a forge-gunner.

He had a militia forge which originally does absolutely nothing to my proto ADS with 4,062 shields, except this time, with each shot he took out 2,000 shield instantly. That's right, even a militia forge gun can now 3-shot a proto ADS with 4 ward shield extenders. Not only that, but in your view of "fixing a camera", that means that all you do is re-position the source point to the front of the dropship so we can sort of look downwards but still not really, and the camera swings violently when you try to aim at things. And with this camera now in the front, if you try to look at your back, the entire camera is taken up by the back of the dropship and you can't see anything. With this new camera, it makes shooting ground units around 100x more difficult in an Assault Dropship. It used to be fairly easy and you could lead targets, etc, but now this new camera jerks your riticule when you try to aim ahead, causing the turret aim to go in an un-wanted direction, almost like how side-gunners get affected by looking down.

I can't even see my entire dropship at all in 3rd person anymore. You have royally ****** up with this update CCP, the wait time will deter any potential new members you could get, along with the fact that there are only very few people in each match, and it's not because people aren't online either, there are many people on. Good luck surviving the massive wipe that will be known as the Dust Ice-age.

It sounds like you were hit with more than just an MLT FG.

Okay how many times am i going to have to say this? There were 4 enemies on the other team, and only one had a forge gun. You can do the math all you want on your old statistics of what FG's used to do to shields but I'm pretty much positive they made shields have less resistance to forge guns. And I don't even care how much you would do with your advanced or proto FG, because dropships are underpowered as it is and trying to act like you're a pro at taking down dropships is stupid because a 4 year old can take them down now.

My god you people are pathetic!

If he has proficiency up to 5 and was wearing the 'Neo' Heavy ak.0 with 3 complex damage mods he could do ~1954.32 damage per shot; or if it was just a suit with 2 high slots then it would be ~1860.48 damage per shot.

Edit: math was off. Numbers should be correct now.

I hate I'm going to have to get into an argument from someone in my own Alliance.

First, In order to get the damage numbers you're claiming, CCP would have had to massively stealth buff the Forge Gun. The damage numbers you indicated are simply not possible with an MLT FG Variant. CCP would have had to buff the damage output by hundreds in order to reach that.

Second, how hard it is to hit a dropship is entirely dependent on the one piloting it. If you're hovering around like a derp expecting not to get shot, then you have another thing coming. I suggest watching either this video or this one if you cannot grasp the concept of flying defensively.

If you got shot down in a well-equiped dropship(which it sounds like you have), by an MLT forge gun, then you were not flying it properly. And if that's the case, we really should be mocking you, not sitting here trying to have a rational discussion.

actually FG have 10% bonus against shields


as far as I remember correctly, the back thruster is the weakspot.

Heavies only have 2 High slots max. Unless the Aurum one is special. In which case, I'm going to go yell at CCP for pushing P2Win.

actually FG have 10% bonus against shields

FGs are railguns, they get a 10% reduction, plasma, like the AR gets the 10% buff.

FGs are railguns, they get a 10% reduction, plasma, like the AR gets the 10% buff.

I have been flying for a very long time. I was never shot down by this FG, because I know how to keep moving in an ADS, that's standard, and i can't believe you would assume i was just sitting there letting him hit me constantly. I'm apart of Condor Squad and fly with them regularly, and we all know how to predict and dodge forge gun shots like it's nothing. I'm just letting everyone know that FG's do more dmg to shield reppers now, and whatever change was made to FG's is a big one, because I know for a fact that it was a militia forge gun hitting me and doing that incredible amount of damage for a militia. Look, once 1.4 starts to stretch into a few days and weeks, you will realize how much weaker dropships are to forge guns.

If you didn't get shot down, then why are you bitching?

there is no forge gun buff, it is only in your mind.

Please, scroll down on the first page and read the 10+ other similar responses, and my reply to them before you try to assert that I don't know what I'm talking about

well in that case, pilots and tank drivers have nothing to complain

BECAUSE A MILTIA FORGE GUN CAN NOW DO 2000+ DMG TO MY PROTO DROPSHIP.

I could have easily been taken down if i hadn't hidden and waited for my shield to regen every single time i got hit once.

You can do the math a million times over and still not get the correct result in-game, CCP has proven that time and time again. Please, i encourage you to go into a match with a miltia forge gun and "test the waters".

So, wait, so than how do you know it was an MLT, if you weren't killed by it and given the death-feed?

There very well could have been more than one FG on the field, I've stood around entire matches with my Breach scaring of DSs to support my team, never scoring a kill, but neither does the DS.

I've tested the waters, and I know for a fact only the Breach FG can reach the numbers you talking about, the regular one cannot reach those numbers in one shot, stop making excuses and just admit it, you don't know what hit you.

I still run a 100% militia FG sh**fit for pub matches, even though I have FG proficiency 3.

I'll see if my mileage varies against dropships compared to 1.3 once's I'm able to get in game and test. I use Militia Forge on a near daily basis, so I'll notice if they mucked with it real fast. I'll try to confirm or deny, but if the FG got some sort of stealth buff/change it should be fixed.


As for some of the other hair-brained justifications in this thread... proto heavy suits with militia forge guns? Really, people? Really?

Flew several gorgans and Prometheus this morning in skirmish pubs. Overall, my experience was improved. I am unaware of any direct changes to dropship stats or performance but the vessels felt more responsive and stable in flight.

I lost a couple of gorgans to forge gun and turret fire but my dropships were taking hard hits and still surviving, more so than yesterday. The Prometheus I particular took several very hard hits from a forge gunner and dropped me deep into low armor...I was still able to keep the craft up, maneuvering and escape.

Maybe just a lucky few matches ( much more testing needed) but it FELT good

You've tested them in 1.4 already? Wow that was quick!

Look, I'm going to say it only 1 more time. There were 4. people. on. the. other. team. The other 3 weren't running forge guns, only 1 was. It was the best match to test my theory in, and it was proven right. And i know it was an MLT because the user was getting kills on infantry on the screen.

Hey op im a python pilot too and I believe you , a 2nd hit from any forge and its almost certain death and my python is maxed out.
Also I respect you lvl 5 patience talking to these retards with not even militia grade reading skills, good luck were all gonna need it to survive this patch

CCP, this is probably the last nail in the coffin for me as a dropship pilot, and I'm here to let you know why. In my first match that i had to wait over 8 minutes for (the estimated wait time was 1:20) the match i got into was Ashland domination, as it appears that many others are being shuffled into that match. Except when I finally got into the match, there were only 4 people on each side, for the entire game, and one was a forge-gunner.

He had a militia forge which originally does absolutely nothing to my proto ADS with 4,062 shields, except this time, with each shot he took out 2,000 shield instantly. That's right, even a militia forge gun can now 3-shot a proto ADS with 4 ward shield extenders. Not only that, but in your view of "fixing a camera", that means that all you do is re-position the source point to the front of the dropship so we can sort of look downwards but still not really, and the camera swings violently when you try to aim at things. And with this camera now in the front, if you try to look at your back, the entire camera is taken up by the back of the dropship and you can't see anything. With this new camera, it makes shooting ground units around 100x more difficult in an Assault Dropship. It used to be fairly easy and you could lead targets, etc, but now this new camera jerks your riticule when you try to aim ahead, causing the turret aim to go in an un-wanted direction, almost like how side-gunners get affected by looking down.

I can't even see my entire dropship at all in 3rd person anymore. You have royally ****** up with this update CCP, the wait time will deter any potential new members you could get, along with the fact that there are only very few people in each match, and it's not because people aren't online either, there are many people on. Good luck surviving the massive wipe that will be known as the Dust Ice-age.

I can safely say Forges don't hurt my Sica and Gunnlogi any more than they used to.

I got a match against a FG player who I actually know the damage output of, and it was unchanged.

If there's been a change, it was a change to Dropships, not Forge Guns. And if there hasn't been a change, it was a weakpoint hit, or the guy had stacked damage mods on a Proto suit and maxed skills with a MLT Forge for some lunatic reason.

I'm pathetic? For what exactly? Letting CCP know that the Camera is a half-assed attempt to make dropships better when in reality it was worse than the camera they originally had?

Improvise, adapt, overcome! You don't like 1st POV then go to 3rd POV. This crap is hilariously annoying!

Improvise, adapt, overcome! You don't like 1st POV then go to 3rd POV. This crap is hilariously annoying!

You can do the math a million times over and still not get the correct result in-game, CCP has proven that time and time again. Please, i encourage you to go into a match with a miltia forge gun and "test the waters".

Improvise, adapt, overcome! You don't like 1st POV then go to 3rd POV. This crap is hilariously annoying!

How do you know he was MLT? I ran the math - even with 2 10% damage mods, and 12% proficiency (very unlikely), his max damage output is roundabout 1650 per shot. That's before your 10% damage reduction from FG vs Shields. That would drop the damage to around 1500. If you have passive modifiers, it would go down even further.

More than likely? You were being hit by something more powerful than an MLT FG.

Furthermore, count your blessings. If it was me, i'd be hitting you with about 3.5k or more. You got off light.

thank you 1000x over for actually trying to understand and test what's going on here, instead of trying to say that it's impossible when they haven't probably even played 1.4 for themselves yet, let alone with a militia FG against a dropship.

Serimos, just following up after a few hours of gaming/testing.

I'm going to have to deny... Militia Forge Gun feels about the same as it did previously versus vehicles. I drove off a dropship but couldn't pop it in one of the matches, and it's about as effective against LAVs as it was previously. Sorry, but I can't explain your experience from the Forge Gunners end.

The one weird thing I noticed? It only takes 3 MLT FG shots to pop a stationary missile/blaster/rail turret now. I noticed tanks were having an easier time blowing them up as well. I wonder if CCP reduced the life on those things for some reason...

Stopped reading at 10% dmg reduction from forge vs shield.

109% efficiency.

That is all.

CCP, this is probably the last nail in the coffin for me as a dropship pilot, and I'm here to let you know why. In my first match that i had to wait over 8 minutes for (the estimated wait time was 1:20) the match i got into was Ashland domination, as it appears that many others are being shuffled into that match. Except when I finally got into the match, there were only 4 people on each side, for the entire game, and one was a forge-gunner.

He had a militia forge which originally does absolutely nothing to my proto ADS with 4,062 shields, except this time, with each shot he took out 2,000 shield instantly. That's right, even a militia forge gun can now 3-shot a proto ADS with 4 ward shield extenders. Not only that, but in your view of "fixing a camera", that means that all you do is re-position the source point to the front of the dropship so we can sort of look downwards but still not really, and the camera swings violently when you try to aim at things. And with this camera now in the front, if you try to look at your back, the entire camera is taken up by the back of the dropship and you can't see anything. With this new camera, it makes shooting ground units around 100x more difficult in an Assault Dropship. It used to be fairly easy and you could lead targets, etc, but now this new camera jerks your riticule when you try to aim ahead, causing the turret aim to go in an un-wanted direction, almost like how side-gunners get affected by looking down.

I can't even see my entire dropship at all in 3rd person anymore. You have royally ****** up with this update CCP, the wait time will deter any potential new members you could get, along with the fact that there are only very few people in each match, and it's not because people aren't online either, there are many people on. Good luck surviving the massive wipe that will be known as the Dust Ice-age.

Please understand that he is talking about 3rd person. Half of my flying was seeing where my engines were pointed and my angle of attack. I can no longer see either of these making flying very difficult. Further more it makes it much harder to actually see forge or rail tanks, we can no longer see very well around our dropships and since we have to turn the whole dropship in order to see anything further decreasing our field of view makes us less effective. Assault dropships aren't cheap.

Serimos is a veteran pilot, one of the best I've seen. If he is this passionate about this change its for good reason and you might give him a little credit. Normally I'm all for adapt over come survive, though this change makes flying the dropship a huge chore and forcing veteran pilots like me and serimos to completely relearn how to fly. If they had kept the camera the same I would be adapting. Going back to flight school after months of getting good at flying is very painful, especially because we know we won't be nearly as effective as we were with the other camera view. That hurts a lot......

I guess I misseed that. I apologise to everyone. I don't do dropships 1. because they are so mother loving expensive and 2. because they suck to fly. Whenever I see a complaint on here my mind automatically shuts off and I go into 'Tell this jerkoff to go to hell' mode because I do know that the DEVs are not trying to screw us over and I do know how hard it is to scroll through seemingly endless lines of code to find a mistake. So again, I apologise for pissing anyone off.

Were you using Caldari Vehicles? Forgeguns do more damage against shields and stack it with a damage modifier a few times (2 mods). Bam! 40 percent of extra damage.

Ugh, why are people so confused on this matter.

Forge Guns have a 10% damage reduction to shields. They are a hybrid weapon. They are not a plasma weapon.

The only AV weapon that has a damage increase to shields is the Plasma Cannon.

Please get your information correct.

ARs get 10% bonus against shields, and a reduction against armour. They're a hybrid weapon (based on Blaster tech).

Sniper Rifles get a 10% bonus against shields, and a reduction against armour. They're hybrid weapons (Railgun).

CCP have stated the Plasma Cannon is a hybrid weapon as well.

Blaster turrets and Railgun turrets on tanks are hybrid weapons, and deal extra damage to shields, while Missiles are the only vehicle-mounted weapon that currently has a bonus against armour.

You're the one getting your information wrong.

/sigh

Yes, MY information is wrong.

Aren't you a vet or something Garret? Shouldn't you have known this?

Hybrid - Plasma (Short range)

Shield +10%
Armour -10%

---

Assault Rifle
Shotgun
Plasma Cannon
Ion Pistol
Heavy Weapon (TBA)

The first chart in your link, converted into text.


Well played, good sir. Maybe you should try and prove yourself right instead of the other guy next time you want to win an argument?

EDIT: Also, double "t". Why do people always spell my name wrong?

Ugh, why are people so confused on this matter.

Forge Guns have a 10% damage reduction to shields. They are a hybrid weapon. They are not a plasma weapon.

The only AV weapon that has a damage increase to shields is the Plasma Cannon.

Please get your information correct.

Edit - There has been no change with the Forge Gun, other then the installation thing which i myself experienced more then once.

But seeing as how I've witnessed the installation not popping on the 2nd hit with both my assault and breach variants (the Breach 2 shots installations regardless of Prof lvl), its safe to assume its an installation issue.

ARs get 10% bonus against shields, and a reduction against armour. They're a hybrid weapon (based on Blaster tech).

Sniper Rifles get a 10% bonus against shields, and a reduction against armour. They're hybrid weapons (Railgun).

CCP have stated the Plasma Cannon is a hybrid weapon as well.

Blaster turrets and Railgun turrets on tanks are hybrid weapons, and deal extra damage to shields, while Missiles are the only vehicle-mounted weapon that currently has a bonus against armour.

You're the one getting your information wrong.

That's fine. I'd written something pretty rude to you thinking you honestly considered this camera change to be an item for people to "Adapt" to. Then after some consideration assumed you either had to have no clue what you were talking about or were just a terrible troll.


Thanks for coming around. This camera change really eliminated so many things we used to be able to do.
Even flying in a squad of 6 dropships for fun, feeding forge gunners ISK, now none of us could do that because we'd all be smashing into each other with no field of vision. Essentially now we have two versions of first person and no third.

Same problem affects interior flying and I really don't think this helped our front aiming either