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Rudy Vandersario
The Nimbor Corporation
13
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 23:12:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ok so just to make things clear I have a lot of time for healers and revivers. Having someone save me an expensive dropsuit is very pleasing and helps to make it feel like a team sport and not every man for himself, which I like.
However there have been many times when I have been revived in the middle of heavy crossfire and have been killed for a second (sometimes third) time before I've even figured out which way is up. I'm a pretty cynical guy by nature and it didn't take long before I suspected that some revivals were done exclusively to get the reviver WP and they didn't give a **** if I died immediately after, so long as they get their WP.
This, to me isn't cool. I don't know if this is a stupid question or not but wouldn't it make sense that you can only be revived if you actively call for help? I can't see any downsides to that solution but I'm prepared to be enlightened if there are.
I'm not criticising genuine revivers (I love you guys) just would like to avoid being revived when I really don't want to be. |
Nick nugg3t
Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation
40
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 23:21:00 -
[2] - Quote
Well I think the best way to help this problem is to give a revived player invincibility for like 2 seconds.. I think that is reasonable |
Operative 1171 Aajli
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
209
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 23:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
Technically you could say that you shouldn't revive until after the enemy is away from the area. However, this game being what it is there must be shorthand, makebelieve versions of that.
Hence, revive should spawn you a bit of a distance from where your body is. I mean come on! If you can spawn ammo out of a nanohive and spawn a drop out of a lilttle link then hell... |
Nguruthos IX
Vagina Bombers
1303
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 23:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
Here's my idea.
Make all the gear and weapons more expensive so you'll actually want that revival >.<
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Nguruthos IX
Vagina Bombers
1303
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Posted - 2013.09.02 23:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
Operative 1171 Aajli wrote:Technically you could say that you shouldn't revive until after the enemy is away from the area. However, this game being what it is there must be shorthand, makebelieve versions of that.
Hence, revive should spawn you a bit of a distance from where your body is. I mean come on! If you can spawn ammo out of a nanohive and spawn a drop out of a lilttle link then hell...
I thought I remember CCP saying that soon they're making nanite injectors revive players (temporarily) even stronger than they were.
So they will be able to jump right back up and go crazy for a bit. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
3495
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 23:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
Here's my idea: Go with "only revive if you've called for help" because that makes sense. |
Rudy Vandersario
The Nimbor Corporation
13
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 23:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Here's my idea: Go with "only revive if you've called for help" because that makes sense.
That's what I think too, makes the most sense to me. |
Forlorn Destrier
Bullet Cluster
1522
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 00:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
Rudy Vandersario wrote:Ok so just to make things clear I have a lot of time for healers and revivers. Having someone save me an expensive dropsuit is very pleasing and helps to make it feel like a team sport and not every man for himself, which I like.
However there have been many times when I have been revived in the middle of heavy crossfire and have been killed for a second (sometimes third) time before I've even figured out which way is up. I'm a pretty cynical guy by nature and it didn't take long before I suspected that some revivals were done exclusively to get the reviver WP and they didn't give a **** if I died immediately after, so long as they get their WP.
This, to me isn't cool. I don't know if this is a stupid question or not but wouldn't it make sense that you can only be revived if you actively call for help? I can't see any downsides to that solution but I'm prepared to be enlightened if there are.
I'm not criticising genuine revivers (I love you guys) just would like to avoid being revived when I really don't want to be.
I think they need to implement an "accept/decline" option, and you have until your normal bleed out timer ends (or 5 seconds, whichever is longer) to decide to accept or decline the revive. If you accept it, then they the guy who revived you gets full WP; if you decide not to accept it, they still get a token WP for the effort - maybe 20? - and this would solve the problem. |
Eldest Dragon
0uter.Heaven
109
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 00:06:00 -
[9] - Quote
Rudy Vandersario wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Here's my idea: Go with "only revive if you've called for help" because that makes sense. That's what I think too, makes the most sense to me.
Me 3rd... |
HandOGod
Taints of Tartarus
143
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 00:09:00 -
[10] - Quote
I always felt that if you press O after dying to go and pick out your next suit you should not longer be revivable.
If you don't hit O it means your just sitting there waiting to get revived. |
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Viktor Zokas
High-Damage
317
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Posted - 2013.09.03 00:12:00 -
[11] - Quote
You're bitching about revivals? Man I guess we're picking up scraps from the bottom of the barrel, eh?
You have a chance to save a suit, second chance to kill a guy, so stop bitching about it. You don't lose anything from it. |
Forlorn Destrier
Bullet Cluster
1522
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 00:15:00 -
[12] - Quote
Viktor Zokas wrote:You're bitching about revivals? Man I guess we're picking up scraps from the bottom of the barrel, eh?
You have a chance to save a suit, second chance to kill a guy, so stop bitching about it. You don't lose anything from it. Except if they have decided to change tactics, and/or they don't feel like dying again and again - you are actually keeping them out of combat for longer than if you let them bleed out A logi's role is to SAVE the guy - you don't do that by reviving someone one in a gun fight so he can die again. If you don't give them a chance to move, you aren't giving them a chance to kill the guy that killed them, only giving them a chance to do to that person again. |
Nguruthos IX
Vagina Bombers
1304
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 00:18:00 -
[13] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Here's my idea: Go with "only revive if you've called for help" because that makes sense. Okay, I could get on board with this. |
Rudy Vandersario
The Nimbor Corporation
15
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 00:24:00 -
[14] - Quote
Viktor Zokas wrote:You're bitching about revivals? Man I guess we're picking up scraps from the bottom of the barrel, eh?
You have a chance to save a suit, second chance to kill a guy, so stop bitching about it. You don't lose anything from it.
Who's bitching? It's a discussion. |
DJINN leukoplast
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
1175
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 00:25:00 -
[15] - Quote
Even if I am in a good spot to be revived and guaranteed to survive, I would rather die and spawn with fresh gear/ammo.
I already have the death and have a crap ton of ISK, so why the hell would I ever want a revive?
CCP needs to bring back the bleedout option. Or at the very least, don't count the death on my record if I get revived. |
LOS HAWK
Science For Death The Shadow Eclipse
57
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 00:25:00 -
[16] - Quote
I think evryone here agrees that getting revived tosimply die is pointless |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
2006
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 00:31:00 -
[17] - Quote
You would have to make it clear to every blueberry that they won't get picked up without asking then, or there will be quite a few unintentional bleed outs.
There's another complication. If you wait to ask until you are sure the firefight is over it may be too let for the medic to head your way. No medic will chase you down until you ask if this gets implemented.
It only takes a few seconds to start a respawn, so if you don't want to be picked up don't linger. If you do I'll assume you want a revive. |
Michael Arck
Anubis Prime Syndicate
763
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 00:43:00 -
[18] - Quote
You wanna hear me curse like a sailor?? Revive me when bullets is flying in my direction. That crap makes my blood boil. |
JETSTORM1090
Against All Oddz
165
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 01:18:00 -
[19] - Quote
How about when you die and get revived it doesn't count as a death, only when you bleed out would it count as a death. Also what you guys were sayin about only get revived if you call for help. |
Seymor Krelborn
DUST University Ivy League
691
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 01:25:00 -
[20] - Quote
I hate beig revived unless I ask... I actually welcome the death most times because im either low on ammo or want to change suits...I also don't like the selfishness of the reviver who knowingly does it when enemies are just gonna kill you again.
im for the only revive when ask for help option. |
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SirManBoy
Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION
171
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 02:16:00 -
[21] - Quote
Viktor Zokas wrote:You're bitching about revivals? Man I guess we're picking up scraps from the bottom of the barrel, eh?
You have a chance to save a suit, second chance to kill a guy, so stop bitching about it. You don't lose anything from it.
This! If the OPs idea took hold, I would never risk my neck for another revive again. Stop worrying about your KDR and be happy that revives exist at all. |
Yokal Bob
Greatness Achieved Through Training EoN.
196
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 02:20:00 -
[22] - Quote
I hate the revive spam just for wp, my main fit is logi and i will revive if i know you have a good chance of staying alive afterwards. What annoys me is people standing still for ages after i revive them (asking to be shot) or running off towards the enemy before i can heal them (again asking for death).
Its a shame people don't think about clone management |
grunt party
Carbon 7 CRONOS.
23
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 02:21:00 -
[23] - Quote
Nick nugg3t wrote:Well I think the best way to help this problem is to give a revived player invincibility for like 2 seconds.. I think that is reasonable yh so they can get up and burn some one who has no chance grate idea |
Henchmen21
Planet Express LLC
199
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 02:33:00 -
[24] - Quote
If I am waiting on a revive I am damn sure ready to jump and move the moment I am up, tends to work out well. |
Doc Noah
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
499
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 04:20:00 -
[25] - Quote
If you dont want to be revived, press "Gū¦" and cancel with "O" if you you want to change suits. i almost never get revived into gunfire because I choose immediately whether or not being revived will go in my favor. Died surrounded by 4+ people? Press the spawn button for a quick bleed out. Died to 1 guy that died shortly after you? Let the medic revive you.
I swear some people just want everything handed to them. |
Rudy Vandersario
The Nimbor Corporation
20
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 08:25:00 -
[26] - Quote
SirManBoy wrote:Viktor Zokas wrote:You're bitching about revivals? Man I guess we're picking up scraps from the bottom of the barrel, eh?
You have a chance to save a suit, second chance to kill a guy, so stop bitching about it. You don't lose anything from it. This! If the OPs idea took hold, I would never risk my neck for another revive again. Stop worrying about your KDR and be happy that revives exist at all.
Don't you think it's a bizarre situation where people are regularly being revived when they 100% dont want to be? To be clear I'm not suggesting that you risk your own neck to save someone only to find out they have selected 'no revive', there would be a system in place where medics could see at glance if the clone wanted reviving or not. I don't see the issue there.
You say forget about your K/D ratio but in the same way you might feel pride about how much healing or how many clones you saved in a match, I might feel pride in my K/D ratio. There's nothing wrong with that. |
Acturus Galaxy
The Phalanx Inc
135
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 09:03:00 -
[27] - Quote
I only revive when I think the chance of the patient surviving is big. I will not run out to get myself killed, and if the fire is only of moderate level and long range, I will position myself between the patient and the redberries to take the few bullets flying in our direction. I would say my revive success rate is 80%, there is always the camping sniper or stray grenades incoming before I get to rep the armor. Sometimes I am busy running after an assault with his militia injector. I can hardly keep up repping the armors of the people he revives. I could do so much better with my proto injector.
Please do not make it anymore difficult getting revives, I have spend CPU and power to equip a proto injector. I rarely get more than 2-3 revives. I will stop running with the injector if it gets more difficult. |
Billi Gene
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
377
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 09:25:00 -
[28] - Quote
Viktor Zokas wrote:You're bitching about revivals? Man I guess we're picking up scraps from the bottom of the barrel, eh?
You have a chance to save a suit, second chance to kill a guy, so stop bitching about it. You don't lose anything from it.
you do lose, you lose the ability to change suit.
I've made suicide runs to take people out with me, instead of just suiciding in an ambush, usually because I'm in AV gear or want to change to AV gear.... getting an unwanted revive is annoying.
But what the OP is talking about, are the WP farming pseudo-logi's. Players that are not interested in your survival or ability to rejoin the fight, rather they only see a WP node with your name on it. They will continue to revive you as long as they can, sometimes even to the exclusion of maintaining their own clone.
Its a silly and short sighted method.
|
Blaze Ashra
O.U.T.E.R. S.A.N.C.T.U.M.
7
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 09:39:00 -
[29] - Quote
I think the choice should be up to the deceased but you should get full war points for injecting them. They died and you did what you could for them. If they choose not to fine you still did your job. That's like saying lets give the guys we shoot the choice of whether or not we get war points for killing them. |
Ryme Intrinseca
Seraphim Auxiliaries
11
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 09:40:00 -
[30] - Quote
Rudy Vandersario wrote:I don't know if this is a stupid question or not but wouldn't it make sense that you can only be revived if you actively call for help? I can't see any downsides to that solution but I'm prepared to be enlightened if there are. There are no downsides to this. Make this happen CCP. |
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Rudy Vandersario
The Nimbor Corporation
22
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 09:43:00 -
[31] - Quote
Billi Gene wrote:Viktor Zokas wrote:You're bitching about revivals? Man I guess we're picking up scraps from the bottom of the barrel, eh?
You have a chance to save a suit, second chance to kill a guy, so stop bitching about it. You don't lose anything from it. you do lose, you lose the ability to change suit. I've made suicide runs to take people out with me, instead of just suiciding in an ambush, usually because I'm in AV gear or want to change to AV gear.... getting an unwanted revive is annoying. But what the OP is talking about, are the WP farming pseudo-logi's. Players that are not interested in your survival or ability to rejoin the fight, rather they only see a WP node with your name on it. They will continue to revive you as long as they can, sometimes even to the exclusion of maintaining their own clone. Its a silly and short sighted method.
That's exactly what I'm getting at. The last thing I intended was to complain about genuine revivers and healers you guys are awesome and have saved my ass many times! |
Acturus Galaxy
The Phalanx Inc
135
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 09:52:00 -
[32] - Quote
Billi Gene wrote:Viktor Zokas wrote:You're bitching about revivals? Man I guess we're picking up scraps from the bottom of the barrel, eh?
You have a chance to save a suit, second chance to kill a guy, so stop bitching about it. You don't lose anything from it. you do lose, you lose the ability to change suit. I've made suicide runs to take people out with me, instead of just suiciding in an ambush, usually because I'm in AV gear or want to change to AV gear.... getting an unwanted revive is annoying. But what the OP is talking about, are the WP farming pseudo-logi's. Players that are not interested in your survival or ability to rejoin the fight, rather they only see a WP node with your name on it. They will continue to revive you as long as they can, sometimes even to the exclusion of maintaining their own clone. Its a silly and short sighted method.
Simple solution, do not make suicide runs, every clone counts. And stop having a militia injectors and starter outfits with the injector equipped. We did have the option right after Uprising where you had to press a button if you wished to be revived. I got one revive every third game and stopped equipping the injector as many else. Making the chance getting revived very small.
I like getting revived even in my scout suit where I otherwise would have planned to switch to my logi suit. I might be of less use to team in my scout suit but it is one clone saved on our side. |
SirManBoy
Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION
171
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 09:59:00 -
[33] - Quote
Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Rudy Vandersario wrote:I don't know if this is a stupid question or not but wouldn't it make sense that you can only be revived if you actively call for help? I can't see any downsides to that solution but I'm prepared to be enlightened if there are. There are no downsides to this. Make this happen CCP.
Sorry, but no. I don't agree with any mechanic that can be exploited to screw over legitimate support players. So many of you are citing preference to change suits, KDR, and other selfish factors for passing up a revive and that's really not what this mechanic is about. Revives save suits, promote support play, and give the game diversity. This idea that your dying clone should be able to make a conscious decision not to be picked is absurd and would devalue the logi class, the role of the nanite injector, and result in fast-acting support players getting themselves killed on your behalf. |
Rogue Saint
Science For Death The Shadow Eclipse
123
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Posted - 2013.09.03 10:28:00 -
[34] - Quote
People should stop using militia and basic injectors, those that do are simply WP whoring for sure. If you are a medic don't even bother fitting an injector until you are advanced/proto in nanocircuitry!! |
Regis Blackbird
DUST University Ivy League
15
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 10:35:00 -
[35] - Quote
SirManBoy wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Rudy Vandersario wrote:I don't know if this is a stupid question or not but wouldn't it make sense that you can only be revived if you actively call for help? I can't see any downsides to that solution but I'm prepared to be enlightened if there are. There are no downsides to this. Make this happen CCP. Sorry, but no. I don't agree with any mechanic that can be exploited to screw over legitimate support players. So many of you are citing preference to change suits, KDR, and other selfish factors for passing up a revive and that's really not what this mechanic is about. Revives save suits, promote support play, and give the game diversity. This idea that your dying clone should be able to make a conscious decision not to be picked is absurd and would devalue the logi class, the role of the nanite injector, and result in fast-acting support players getting themselves killed on your behalf.
What about you only get WP for reviving people who actually called for help? That would take care of the WP farming, but leave the rest of the mechanics untouched...
No one would put their own life at risk for 0WP, unless the goal is winning the game (as it should be). |
Ryme Intrinseca
Seraphim Auxiliaries
11
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 10:36:00 -
[36] - Quote
SirManBoy wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Rudy Vandersario wrote:I don't know if this is a stupid question or not but wouldn't it make sense that you can only be revived if you actively call for help? I can't see any downsides to that solution but I'm prepared to be enlightened if there are. There are no downsides to this. Make this happen CCP. Sorry, but no. I don't agree with any mechanic that can be exploited to screw over legitimate support players. So many of you are citing preference to change suits, KDR, and other selfish factors for passing up a revive and that's really not what this mechanic is about. Revives save suits, promote support play, and give the game diversity. This idea that your dying clone should be able to make a conscious decision not to be picked is absurd and would devalue the logi class, the role of the nanite injector, and result in fast-acting support players getting themselves killed on your behalf. There's a firing squad of reds in front of me, I'm there bleeding out when some WP padder injects me so I can get killed again. Is that your idea of 'legitimate support players'? If not, why wouldn't you mind giving us the choice of whether to ask for a revive or not?
The revive icon wouldn't appear until the revive is requested, so there would be no extra danger to nanite injector users. It would actually be better for you than the current system, as once the revive has been requested the player would not be able to respawn until they bleed out. To ensure the medic has enough time to make the revive - which they have no guarantee of at the moment - the dying player could be given only a few seconds after death to decide.
So we would go from the current system (people who don't want revives get picked up and rage at medics, medics often can't make revives before the respawn) to one that is better for revivees and revivers (only the people who want to get picked up are picked up, medics get a guarantee of 10 secs+ for each revive, unless the body is shot). |
SirManBoy
Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION
171
|
Posted - 2013.09.03 15:02:00 -
[37] - Quote
Regis Blackbird wrote:SirManBoy wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Rudy Vandersario wrote:I don't know if this is a stupid question or not but wouldn't it make sense that you can only be revived if you actively call for help? I can't see any downsides to that solution but I'm prepared to be enlightened if there are. There are no downsides to this. Make this happen CCP. Sorry, but no. I don't agree with any mechanic that can be exploited to screw over legitimate support players. So many of you are citing preference to change suits, KDR, and other selfish factors for passing up a revive and that's really not what this mechanic is about. Revives save suits, promote support play, and give the game diversity. This idea that your dying clone should be able to make a conscious decision not to be picked is absurd and would devalue the logi class, the role of the nanite injector, and result in fast-acting support players getting themselves killed on your behalf. What about you only get WP for reviving people who actually called for help? That would take care of the WP farming, but leave the rest of the mechanics untouched... No one would put their own life at risk for 0WP, unless the goal is winning the game (as it should be).
And what if you deny me my WP and then go on to rack up 3 kills following the revive? I obviously helped you accomplish this, but your system would leave me without compensation for my efforts simply because you made a poor evaluation of the situation.
Getting revived is a privilege and an opportunity to perhaps save a suit and continue fighting. It's not a gaurantee designed to protect your precious KDR. |
RA Drahcir
Psygod9
195
|
Posted - 2013.09.14 16:46:00 -
[38] - Quote
This needs to be looked at. I am tired of getting spammed deaths. It happens every other match. |
Second Cerberus
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
44
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Posted - 2013.09.15 01:42:00 -
[39] - Quote
I actually laughed out loud when I read "revive" and "clone management" in the same sentence. The only thing that takes the edge off a stupid revive that pulls me from the spawn menu to die again is that inevitably someone will do it on the enemy team as well and I will get 2 kills for the price of one. The current revival system is a ridiculous overreaction to the broken revival mechanics in previous builds. The bleed out notifications and "body" marking mechanics were so broken it turned a lot of people off injectors. That broken system has been replaced with another broken system. If someone wants revived then ask for it and live with the consequences. If you don't, you shouldn't be forced to play based on the often poor decision making of newberries with militia injectors. If someone wants to kamikaze their clone that's their right too. If you don't like it, join a corp and stay out of pubs.
To make a positive suggestion, perhaps your clone could default to requesting revive and you have to push "circle"within a few seconds to cancel the assistance request and exit the bleedout. This would make assistance requests the default and require player interaction to prevent it. This would eliminate potential issues for new players and permit players who don't want a revive to play the game as they please. |
Michael Arck
Anubis Prime Syndicate
1058
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 01:54:00 -
[40] - Quote
I miss the revive and slide... |
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CLONE117
Planetary Response Organization Test Friends Please Ignore
362
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 01:58:00 -
[41] - Quote
ur fault for getting killed in the first place.. |
RA Drahcir
Psygod9
205
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 01:58:00 -
[42] - Quote
lets simplify this for CCP:
Die, Call for help, Injected, Revived.
Die, Injected, No revive.
Die, Call for help, No injection, No revive. |
Michael Arck
Anubis Prime Syndicate
1058
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 02:17:00 -
[43] - Quote
CLONE117 wrote:ur fault for getting killed in the first place..
If he dies, he dies |
Mossellia Delt
Militaires Sans Jeux
258
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 02:36:00 -
[44] - Quote
For this reason, I always hold my thumbstick to one side while I see anyone with an injector in 10 meters of my body. That and spaming jump as soon as I get picked up. Saved me loads of times. |
Michael Arck
Anubis Prime Syndicate
1058
|
Posted - 2013.09.15 02:38:00 -
[45] - Quote
So the slide option is still available? |
Minor Treat
The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo
141
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Posted - 2013.09.15 02:41:00 -
[46] - Quote
they shouldnt count a death when you die from revivals, penalizing you for the mistake your friendly did is annoying and makes no sense to me. |
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