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Orbitals: How should we earn them?

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Godin Thekiller Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 436	Posted - 2013.09.02 08:01:00 - [31] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: An XL sized shell is the size of one of those hauling trucks, trailer and all. Not quite enough to annihalate the entire map, but it would be significantly larger than the current ones. You must have not read Templar One then. Go ahead, buy it from the store, sit down, and read it. When you come back, tell me what you found out.
crazy space 1 Unkn0wn Killers 1593	Posted - 2013.09.02 08:12:00 - [32] - Quote imo they should only be earned by controlling a radar station or the like. Right now it's so simple ugh. point A B C What about defense relays? Or Radar jammers? Just have more stuff for us to fight over, for instance, you need to hold the jammer for 2 minutes in order to open a window for an eve strike. If the jammer is taken out with heavy tank fire , or remote explosives on the console INSIDE then both teams can have orbital support every 2 minutes.
THE TRAINSPOTTER ROMANIA Renegades C0VEN 300	Posted - 2013.09.02 09:01:00 - [33] - Quote its good the way it is now , its simple
hgghyujh Expert Intervention Caldari State 82	Posted - 2013.09.02 09:42:00 - [34] - Quote I've been right there with you yelling that this needs to be fixed. OPs ideas work but are kinda boring. How about OB support cuts into your paycheck that way OBs are an act of necessity instead of opportunity. Of course then there would have to be some benefit to winning other then a minor increase in pay out and a bigger epeen. The other thought I had is that WP are a persistent currency and calling any support, be they vehicles, OBs or, eventually, installations, pulls from this pool, although as OBs are a squad function its tricky figuring out how those WP should be supplied . Also if this were the case it should not apply to corp matches they should have something else. Also faction warfare WP should be 100% faction based.
hgghyujh Expert Intervention Caldari State 82	Posted - 2013.09.02 09:51:00 - [35] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: Poonmunch wrote: This idea has some merit. OBs should actually depend more on what is happening in orbit. If my employer is in control upstairs then I should be able to get steel rain when I need it. Can you imagine the naval support bombardment during the WWll invasion of Europe depending on the allies winning on the ground? It might have turned out quite differently. Control of the sea was more important for providing bombardments. A cooldown timer based on my employer reloading his guns and getting into position is reasonable. The number of OBs would reasonably be limited by how many ships were in orbit, the type of ships (maybe OB ships are special and expensive? Maybe they are one-time shot devices that are expensive, big and have to be towed into orbit?), how many were damaged or killed and what the level of commitment to victory my employer was. This would also require a degree of skill and integration with the ground forces. A cooldown timer is a good idea. Maybe he size and damage of an OB would depend on how big the guns were? A massive battleship might have a bigger OB than a smaller ship. This might be a way for smaller corps to provide some support to the mercenary forces they hire because the bigger corps are more likely to hire the best (and most expensive) merc corps. For FW and PC I think this is an excellent idea. For pub matches, we obviously have to have the OBs controlled by the ground forces. A cooldown timer for these is still a good idea. I even like the idea of, say, one or two free OBs at the start of the game just to keep things interesting. It would help control zergs for sure. It would limit walkovers where one team gets redlined and everyone magically turns into a redline sniper. My 0.02 ISK, Munch A BS OB would destroy the entire map size we have now. An XL sized shell is the size of one of those hauling trucks, trailer and all. Not quite enough to annihalate the entire map, but it would be significantly larger than the current ones. E=mv^2 also projectile rounds are explosive.
hgghyujh Expert Intervention Caldari State 82	Posted - 2013.09.02 10:00:00 - [36] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: CoD Style OBs was a terrible idea, its a 'rich get richer' mechanic that gives more power to the players on the battlefield who dont need it. In addition, its completely holding back any chance of people getting WPs for things they should be getting WPs for. We will never get a true WP system that rewards people for their actions until we remove the desire to exploit said system for more OBs. MAG had a truly wonderful system imo. Air strikes had some like a 30s cooldown between them with a 2m cooldown per squad leader. In this way, you had some time between strikes, so they weren't spammable but each SL had an opportunity to use their strikes in between the other SLs using theirs. This system would not work in Dust though, as you can make/break your own squads, but there is an easier way to do it. I proposed a while back a system I thought would work very well in Dust, that is continuously accruing 'OMS Points'. Your squad gets 1 OMS Point per second, per squad member (not counting squad leader). So you can get up to 5 OMSP/s. Then you decide the CD you want for OBs... say X minutes? and you make it 605X OMS points per strike. This rewards people getting into squads to get more strikes, and gives both sides equal opportunity for OBs. The SL can then get a little indicator on his HUD which counts up OMS points so he can plan how soon his OB will be ready. We can also make different types of OMS available down the road for different OMSP prices. Say... SD for 200 OMSP? Or a CRU for 300? Orbital Scan or Jamming at 400 and 500? Anyways... WP for OBs is holding back this game... a lot. Removing the mechanic will have to be the first step in their revamp of the WP system down the road. That's the goal. OBs work as a momentum multiplier for the team with the most momentum. The other team is quickly stomped down, and if they do get an OB it is used to try and stabilize or, in worst cases, punch through a redline camp. Also, the WP for OB makes the WP rewards system so fearful of making too may OBs without inherent risk that we will never have decent WP objectives due to having to account for Boosters. Honestly I'm surprised Drop Uplinks give WP and that they haven't been run into the ground by Boosters. WP should not relate to OB in any way :v the issue is that people are abusively spamming OBs becuase they can, OBs should be a tactical asset not a use em or lose em, just like every thing else in this game.
hgghyujh Expert Intervention Caldari State 82	Posted - 2013.09.02 10:04:00 - [37] - Quote crazy space 1 wrote: imo they should only be earned by controlling a radar station or the like. Right now it's so simple ugh. point A B C What about defense relays? Or Radar jammers? Just have more stuff for us to fight over, for instance, you need to hold the jammer for 2 minutes in order to open a window for an eve strike. If the jammer is taken out with heavy tank fire , or remote explosives on the console INSIDE then both teams can have orbital support every 2 minutes. YES!!
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 3442	Posted - 2013.09.02 10:06:00 - [38] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: A BS OB would destroy the entire map size we have now. An XL sized shell is the size of one of those hauling trucks, trailer and all. Not quite enough to annihalate the entire map, but it would be significantly larger than the current ones. A Ragnarok's six quad 3500mm slugs would have some serious kinetic happyjoyjoy when they hit the ground. That's 24 shells the size of cars slamming down from thousands of kilometres away. Then the nuclear payloads explode. A BS OB from a Apocalypse can destroy a map that we're playing on. I'm pretty sure a OB from a XL turret/launcher would utterly destroy an even larger area, and a doomsday OB would put the planet "offline" if you get my drift. Fixed that for you.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1172	Posted - 2013.09.02 10:14:00 - [39] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Free OB are a bad idea unless its by an EVE player OB on WP are just as bad because its easy to grind pts How is a 'free' OB a bad idea? I can see a negative in that it allows an AFKer to get an OB, but that AFKer would have to be Squad/Team Leader. Plus, there are going to be anti-AFK measures, so I doubt that will be too much of an issue. Its just a bad way of having things Take MAG, you were leader you got free strikes throughout the game depending on role Now DUST you cant give a SL a free strike because you would have 16 squads just for a strike espc when solo play, in pub matches it wouldnt work Likewise WP for OB doesnt work, because simply they have reduced the WP you can gain so spider tanking gives no WP, logi gets restrictions on how long he can rep for because after so many pts he gets no WP even tho still doing his job etc Id prefer strikes to be from EVE players and if they aint ther no strikes for anyone
Poonmunch Sanguis Defense Syndicate 243	Posted - 2013.09.02 19:42:00 - [40] - Quote hgghyujh wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: A BS OB would destroy the entire map size we have now. An XL sized shell is the size of one of those hauling trucks, trailer and all. Not quite enough to annihalate the entire map, but it would be significantly larger than the current ones. E=mv^2 also projectile rounds are explosive. They don't even need to be high explosive to be dangerous. A large mass or even an asteroid could cause a bunch of damage. Calling for an orbital strike and having it come in quickly means a very, very high velocity from orbit. There would be a bunch of re-entry friction and some of the mass of the projectile would be burned away (explosive or not). Both passive and self propelled projectiles would suffer from re-entry friction. Passive projectiles would be hard to aim. Self propelled projectiles or beam weapons would be more easily guided. I'm not sure which way to go with the types of strikes. Anyway, we need to sort out something more balanced for orbitals. They give a big advantage to the winning team, promote pubstomps and cause the players on the losing side to turn into AFKers or instant snipers. Games are becoming short struggles for a few NULL cannons. One team hacks the majority, defends them once or twice from half-hearted counter attacks, then orbitals start and everyone on the losing team tends to give up. I've spent more than a few games watching all the objectives turn red or blue, then we sit for 5 minutes while the losing side hides and their MCC gets blown up. Even if the losing side stays in the fight, they switch to militia gear and get wiped out faster by the winning team, who are not afraid of pulling out their proto gear. The winning side is also quite happy to bring out more and bigger vehicles, further tilting the balance in their favor. Giving the wining side a reward for winning is obviously a good idea but giving only the winning side a weapon that obliterates whole groups of counter attackers isn't good. The game just "stops" when orbitals start hitting. Sometimes the game "stops" minutes before the orbitals hit because the losing team knows orbitals are coming. We are hear to fight but the game doesn't work well if one team leaves the field and watches the winning team shuffle around for 7 minutes. Maybe an orbital strike on a NULL cannon, CRU, Turret or Supply Depot should cause it to switch back to yellow? A cooldown timer is a good idea if we keep the current system of earning orbital strikes. Making an orbital a piece of cheap equipment that has to be deployed and defended before it goes off might help. Munch

Rusty Shallows Black Jackals 336	Posted - 2013.09.02 19:46:00 - [41] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Free OB are a bad idea unless its by an EVE player OB on WP are just as bad because its easy to grind pts It was the Orbital Farming that got Logi WP rewards nerfed. Pretty neat how some people can ruin other peoples game play doing stupid stuff.
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 823	Posted - 2013.09.02 19:52:00 - [42] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: An XL sized shell is the size of one of those hauling trucks, trailer and all. Not quite enough to annihalate the entire map, but it would be significantly larger than the current ones. You must have not read Templar One then. Go ahead, buy it from the store, sit down, and read it. When you come back, tell me what you found out. From a lore POV yes, but from a balance POV it would make the entirety of DUST quit if an EVE player could just kill everyone on a whim. Plus, the point of us existing is to take the facility without reducing it to a smoking crater :c
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 823	Posted - 2013.09.02 19:57:00 - [43] - Quote Poonmunch wrote: Maybe an orbital strike on a NULL cannon, CRU, Turret or Supply Depot should cause it to switch back to yellow? A cooldown timer is a good idea if we keep the current system of earning orbital strikes. Making an orbital a piece of cheap equipment that has to be deployed and defended before it goes off might help. Munch Both of these are decent ideas. The installations could enter a 'Siege Mode' similar to EVE Dreadnaughts, increasing their Resistances greatly until the danger has passed, but force-ably disconnecting them from the tacnet so they can't be EWARed into an open state. Lets say, 20-30 seconds, then it opens back up?
Godin Thekiller Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 445	Posted - 2013.09.02 19:58:00 - [44] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: An XL sized shell is the size of one of those hauling trucks, trailer and all. Not quite enough to annihalate the entire map, but it would be significantly larger than the current ones. You must have not read Templar One then. Go ahead, buy it from the store, sit down, and read it. When you come back, tell me what you found out. From a lore POV yes, but from a balance POV it would make the entirety of DUST quit if an EVE player could just kill everyone on a whim. Plus, the point of us existing is to take the facility without reducing it to a smoking crater :c I'm pretty sure a larger sized OB would cost more wp's, and actually, I did shrink it down; it also hada giant as shock wave that ripped apart buildings, and burned lots of stuff outside to the blast, and that was a 5 km radius(the entire district). a XL would probably change the landscape, and a doomsday OB would utterly end that destrict.
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 823	Posted - 2013.09.02 20:01:00 - [45] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: An XL sized shell is the size of one of those hauling trucks, trailer and all. Not quite enough to annihalate the entire map, but it would be significantly larger than the current ones. You must have not read Templar One then. Go ahead, buy it from the store, sit down, and read it. When you come back, tell me what you found out. From a lore POV yes, but from a balance POV it would make the entirety of DUST quit if an EVE player could just kill everyone on a whim. Plus, the point of us existing is to take the facility without reducing it to a smoking crater :c I'm pretty sure a larger sized OB would cost more wp's, and actually, I did shrink it down; it also hada giant as shock wave that ripped apart buildings, and burned lots of stuff outside to the blast, and that was a 5 km radius(the entire district). a XL would probably change the landscape, and a doomsday OB would utterly end that destrict. Yes, but that was a ship-to-ship blast being used in an environment not suited to its intended use. I am sure a Small Turret would do far more damage than the Small Bombardment Guns we see when we OB. In space, noone cares about collateral...
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1181	Posted - 2013.09.03 11:40:00 - [46] - Quote Rusty Shallows wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Free OB are a bad idea unless its by an EVE player OB on WP are just as bad because its easy to grind pts It was the Orbital Farming that got Logi WP rewards nerfed. Pretty neat how some people can ruin other peoples game play doing stupid stuff. Take away the OB and WP for everyone
Kage Roth Wolf-Monkey Bastards 50	Posted - 2013.09.03 11:59:00 - [47] - Quote Just an idea, but could be a timer based on squad size. Squad of one will only get one in really long games, squad of two or three gets one towards the end of the match. Five and six will probably get two and would actually get one in the quick ambush games. It would match the rough feel for when you get orbitals now and would be more balanced for when you are fighting that insanely strong squad and can't get any WP.
Bieomaxx Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 1	Posted - 2013.09.03 12:11:00 - [48] - Quote only read the first post, so apologies if this has been covered. but should we look more into the team structures, we have X amount of squads with leaders, while in the barge the SL's vote in a ops commander, who maybe doesn't deploy to the field but has access to all squad comms and watches the battle from a map (or a representation of the big map on the barge table) He's the one that has to spend all gained WP's from Squads and lonewolves with either installation/turret/ OB drops either off his own battle sense/experiance or from requests the SL's send him. i think this maybe a similar way to another gain i played, but i can't remember which.
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 823	Posted - 2013.09.03 18:19:00 - [49] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Rusty Shallows wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Free OB are a bad idea unless its by an EVE player OB on WP are just as bad because its easy to grind pts It was the Orbital Farming that got Logi WP rewards nerfed. Pretty neat how some people can ruin other peoples game play doing stupid stuff. Take away the OB and WP for everyone that's the idea Taka.


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