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Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514
790
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 16:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
I made a thread like this builds ago, but it never got anywhere. Noone listens to the guy with 39 likes in the Feedback section.
Orbitals are currently earned by WP. This means that the WP system is constantly being gamed to get the maximum WP for the maximum explosive heaven strikes. We have already seen causualties of this with the Lagistics losing their rep points to vehicles, Installations, and even to other PLAYERS after about a solid 15 seconds of healing. Furthermore, I want you to imagine the situation....
Soldier: We have fifty hositiles on our location, we need orbital support! Warbarge: Did you earn enough arbitrary battle points for doing random things on the field? S: ...WHAT? W: We aren't just giving these away, you have to earn them. S: But that bombardment will secure our victory. You HIRED us to defend this facility for you! W: And how is that my problem?
In short, getting Bombardments through WP is idiotic, immersion breaking, and furthermore it rewards the winning team with more firepower.
We need to take a look at how Orbitals are earned. If an EVE player uses their guns, which the Orbital bombarders are in case you DUSTies didn't know, they have a cooldown period. Even if more ammo is loaded, each shot has a decent amount of time in between being fired, and then there is a reload period once all the shots in the chamber are gone. Therefore, I think it would make more sense if the Orbitals were on a cooldown timer, and if overused would have a longer timer as the cannon 'reloads'. Those of you who come from MAG, remember the Mortars and Airstrikes? Kinda like that.
Let this not be the only alternative though, brainstorm here people! We need to think of a better Orbital mechanic than bloody BULLETSTORM! |
Princeps Marcellus
Expert Intervention Caldari State
186
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 16:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
I am similarly lacking in ideas. However, I very much agree with the sentiment! |
DeadlyAztec11
Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation
2096
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 16:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
No. The WP system is good for now because it balances it out. A cool down timer is bad, who would have control over it? The squad leader? What if there are multiple squads with leaders? Can anyone do it? How long it the cool down timer? Could I simply bomb the spawn point of the enemy the second the match starts?
Too many balance issues, not enough reasonable answers.
No, |
Greasepalms
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
201
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 16:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
WP system works in pubs.
Invite a couple randoms into your squad and you're bound to get at least 1 OB per match.
As for pc battles and the like. Having EvE support should be crucial for corps on the ground; If one side maintains control of the planet's orbit, make it rain Of course then Orbital Cannons on the ground would be needed as a last resort to stop the barrage of orbital fire, should your own EvE mates fail to secure the orbital space.
just my 0.02 ISK |
Raz0rs Edge
Red Star. EoN.
17
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 16:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
"and furthermore it rewards the winning team with more firepower"
1. orbitals are only for squads trying to help their team win the game 2. the losing team can call in orbitals too |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514
2912
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 16:27:00 -
[6] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:No. The WP system is good for now because it balances it out. A cool down timer is bad, who would have control over it? The squad leader? What if there are multiple squads with leaders? Can anyone do it? How long it the cool down timer? Could I simply bomb the spawn point of the enemy the second the match starts?
Too many balance issues, not enough reasonable answers.
No,
Does it really balance out? It tends to work out so that the squad that genuinely doesn't need it gets assistance in stomping even harder. Basing an orbital system on EVE control of the skies above would let EVE support make a difference, as well as letting orbitals become a more tactical thing. It also helps the WP system become less exploited.
EDIT: There is, in fact, a dev topic on this very idea in Feedback & Requests. |
Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514
794
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 16:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
Raz0rs Edge wrote:"and furthermore it rewards the winning team with more firepower"
1. orbitals are only for squads trying to help their team win the game 2. the losing team can call in orbitals too
Which team gets orbitals first, the one winning or the one being stomped? |
Sgt Kirk
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
1392
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 16:33:00 -
[8] - Quote
I completely agree. It is immersion breaking when you have a CoD like reward system.
A cool down timer would be perfect IMO but maybe have it a little bit more steps (mechanics to call it in).
If we had an infinite amount of orbital strikes (with cool down) we should have some drawback. I'm thinking it would be a bigger delay from request to impact by a few seconds (you could say they are processing the coordinates and moving into the precise position for the turrets.)
P.S. A long cooldown time would allow for more tactical use of strikes (or a complete waste) but something like this would call for a battle commander right? |
Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514
794
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 16:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:No. The WP system is good for now because it balances it out. A cool down timer is bad, who would have control over it? The squad leader? What if there are multiple squads with leaders? Can anyone do it? How long it the cool down timer? Could I simply bomb the spawn point of the enemy the second the match starts?
Too many balance issues, not enough reasonable answers.
No,
Go play a round of MAG, or go look at a video of it. The game has Platoons, divided into 4 squads. Each Platoon has access to one Mortar. They have all their munitions ready to fire at the start of a round. If Squad A fired their munitions, then there is a cooldown timer of 10 minutes for them to use that charge again, 7 minutes for them to use the mortar again, and five minutes for the other squads to get a chance to use the mortar again. These are not the actual numbers mind you, but just an idea as to how it works. |
Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514
794
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 16:39:00 -
[10] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:I completely agree. It is immersion breaking when you have a CoD like reward system.
A cool down timer would be perfect IMO but maybe have it a little bit more steps (mechanics to call it in).
If we had an infinite amount of orbital strikes (with cool down) we should have some drawback. I'm thinking it would be a bigger delay from request to impact by a few seconds (you could say they are processing the coordinates and moving into the precise position for the turrets.)
P.S. A long cooldown time would allow for more tactical use of strikes (or a complete waste) but something like this would call for a battle commander right?
That is a brilliant idea. If we had a Team Leader over the Squad Leaders, and made it his call when and where the strikes hit, we could afford to do away with alot of clutter in my OP EXAMPLE up top. I'll make a version with this idea. |
|
Poonmunch
Sanguis Defense Syndicate
236
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 16:48:00 -
[11] - Quote
This idea has some merit.
OBs should actually depend more on what is happening in orbit. If my employer is in control upstairs then I should be able to get steel rain when I need it.
Can you imagine the naval support bombardment during the WWll invasion of Europe depending on the allies winning on the ground? It might have turned out quite differently. Control of the sea was more important for providing bombardments.
A cooldown timer based on my employer reloading his guns and getting into position is reasonable. The number of OBs would reasonably be limited by how many ships were in orbit, the type of ships (maybe OB ships are special and expensive? Maybe they are one-time shot devices that are expensive, big and have to be towed into orbit?), how many were damaged or killed and the level of commitment to victory my employer was. This would also require a degree of skill and integration with the ground forces. A cooldown timer is a good idea.
For FW and PC I think this is an excellent idea.
For pub matches, we obviously have to have the OBs controlled by the ground forces. A cooldown timer for these is still a good idea. I even like the idea of, say, one or two free OBs at the start of the game just to keep things interesting. It would help control zergs for sure. It would limit walkovers where one team gets redlined and everyone magically turns into a redline sniper.
My 0.02 ISK,
Munch |
Criteria Shipment
Baynaer Space Command The Ditanian Alliance
330
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 16:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
Zero Harpuia wrote: Soldier: We have fifty hositiles on our location, we need orbital support! Warbarge: Did you earn enough arbitrary battle points for doing random things on the field? S: ...WHAT? W: We aren't just giving these away, you have to earn them. S: But that bombardment will secure our victory. You HIRED us to defend this facility for you! W: And how is that my problem?
Tell that to the COD fanboys,Treyarch, and Infinity Ward.
S: WE NEED A ATTACK CHOPPER IN THE AIR ASAP!
Base: Did you kill seven guys?
S:...what! Its like dust all over again... |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star. EoN.
1172
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 17:16:00 -
[13] - Quote
Free OB are a bad idea unless its by an EVE player
OB on WP are just as bad because its easy to grind pts |
Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
434
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 17:44:00 -
[14] - Quote
Poonmunch wrote:This idea has some merit.
OBs should actually depend more on what is happening in orbit. If my employer is in control upstairs then I should be able to get steel rain when I need it.
Can you imagine the naval support bombardment during the WWll invasion of Europe depending on the allies winning on the ground? It might have turned out quite differently. Control of the sea was more important for providing bombardments.
A cooldown timer based on my employer reloading his guns and getting into position is reasonable. The number of OBs would reasonably be limited by how many ships were in orbit, the type of ships (maybe OB ships are special and expensive? Maybe they are one-time shot devices that are expensive, big and have to be towed into orbit?), how many were damaged or killed and what the level of commitment to victory my employer was. This would also require a degree of skill and integration with the ground forces. A cooldown timer is a good idea.
Maybe he size and damage of an OB would depend on how big the guns were? A massive battleship might have a bigger OB than a smaller ship. This might be a way for smaller corps to provide some support to the mercenary forces they hire because the bigger corps are more likely to hire the best (and most expensive) merc corps.
For FW and PC I think this is an excellent idea.
For pub matches, we obviously have to have the OBs controlled by the ground forces. A cooldown timer for these is still a good idea. I even like the idea of, say, one or two free OBs at the start of the game just to keep things interesting. It would help control zergs for sure. It would limit walkovers where one team gets redlined and everyone magically turns into a redline sniper.
My 0.02 ISK,
Munch
A BS OB would destroy the entire map size we have now. |
Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514
799
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 17:52:00 -
[15] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:Poonmunch wrote:This idea has some merit.
OBs should actually depend more on what is happening in orbit. If my employer is in control upstairs then I should be able to get steel rain when I need it.
Can you imagine the naval support bombardment during the WWll invasion of Europe depending on the allies winning on the ground? It might have turned out quite differently. Control of the sea was more important for providing bombardments.
A cooldown timer based on my employer reloading his guns and getting into position is reasonable. The number of OBs would reasonably be limited by how many ships were in orbit, the type of ships (maybe OB ships are special and expensive? Maybe they are one-time shot devices that are expensive, big and have to be towed into orbit?), how many were damaged or killed and what the level of commitment to victory my employer was. This would also require a degree of skill and integration with the ground forces. A cooldown timer is a good idea.
Maybe he size and damage of an OB would depend on how big the guns were? A massive battleship might have a bigger OB than a smaller ship. This might be a way for smaller corps to provide some support to the mercenary forces they hire because the bigger corps are more likely to hire the best (and most expensive) merc corps.
For FW and PC I think this is an excellent idea.
For pub matches, we obviously have to have the OBs controlled by the ground forces. A cooldown timer for these is still a good idea. I even like the idea of, say, one or two free OBs at the start of the game just to keep things interesting. It would help control zergs for sure. It would limit walkovers where one team gets redlined and everyone magically turns into a redline sniper.
My 0.02 ISK,
Munch A BS OB would destroy the entire map size we have now.
An XL sized shell is the size of one of those hauling trucks, trailer and all. Not quite enough to annihalate the entire map, but it would be significantly larger than the current ones.
|
Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514
799
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 17:54:00 -
[16] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Free OB are a bad idea unless its by an EVE player
OB on WP are just as bad because its easy to grind pts
How is a 'free' OB a bad idea? I can see a negative in that it allows an AFKer to get an OB, but that AFKer would have to be Squad/Team Leader. Plus, there are going to be anti-AFK measures, so I doubt that will be too much of an issue. |
Doc Noah
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
489
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 17:57:00 -
[17] - Quote
Pretty sure the direction CCP is going is an on field WP shop where you can buy things from orbitals to OMS'
Something should definately be done about orbitals helping the winning team win even more but its pretty complicated without completely changing how the WP system works or punishing one or the other. My suggestion would be a smart system that analyzes the WP total of each team and modifies the WP needed to call in an orbital in favor of the losing team. Thats assuming the WP differences are staggering and not even at all. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
3417
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 18:01:00 -
[18] - Quote
For random pub matches (not FW):
-earn enough WP, get precision strike. -'nuff said.
LOGIC: Employers for these battles reward squads for their performance, giving them access to additional ordinance because they demonstrate the skill to apply it correctly.
For FW battles:
-NO PRECISION STRIKE. -players in EVE Online have a beacon above the district which needs to be captured in order to provide orbital support. -when your team's faction holds the beacon AND there's a ship with an available weapon to commit the strike, the squad with the most WP will be notified that an orbital strike is available. -when an orbital strike is called, that squad's running WP total will be RESET TO ZERO. Not just reduced, full reset.
LOGIC: Lore-based rules can be made up for why the beacons prevent orbital bombardment. After using a strike, that squad will have to outstrip every other squad on the field before they have another opportunity to call a strike. This doesn't guarantee every squad will take their turn in order from most-skilled to least, but if a game lasts long enough to call in multiple strikes, it'll take a stupidly good squad to pick up more than one. This means everyone gets a fair chance at calling their orbital in if they're at least vaguely competent and your EVE support is fighting effectively.
Part of the reason this works is because FW battles should only be happening in areas where there's an active FW space battle in EVE Online.
For Planetary Conquest:
-precision strikes can be called from a Warbarge, with a WP limit required to be reached by the squad before assets cna be deployed. -in addition to the WP requirement, there will be a short cooldown on subsequent precision strikes. -EVE ships can be called on to provide fire support instead, but their strikes are also limited to availability when WP limit is reached.
LOGIC: The WP limit needs to be there to prevent a team from just spamming orbital attacks as soon as the battle starts. It also makes sense that you should need to demonstrate your squad's competence on the ground before anyone will listen to you saying "drop a bunch of lasers over there... trust me" |
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers EoN.
1939
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 18:06:00 -
[19] - Quote
CoD Style OBs was a terrible idea, its a 'rich get richer' mechanic that gives more power to the players on the battlefield who dont need it. In addition, its completely holding back any chance of people getting WPs for things they should be getting WPs for. We will never get a true WP system that rewards people for their actions until we remove the desire to exploit said system for more OBs.
MAG had a truly wonderful system imo.
Air strikes had some like a 30s cooldown between them with a 2m cooldown per squad leader. In this way, you had some time between strikes, so they weren't spammable but each SL had an opportunity to use their strikes in between the other SLs using theirs. This system would not work in Dust though, as you can make/break your own squads, but there is an easier way to do it.
I proposed a while back a system I thought would work very well in Dust, that is continuously accruing 'OMS Points'.
Your squad gets 1 OMS Point per second, per squad member (not counting squad leader). So you can get up to 5 OMSP/s.
Then you decide the CD you want for OBs... say X minutes? and you make it 60*5*X OMS points per strike. This rewards people getting into squads to get more strikes, and gives both sides equal opportunity for OBs. The SL can then get a little indicator on his HUD which counts up OMS points so he can plan how soon his OB will be ready. We can also make different types of OMS available down the road for different OMSP prices.
Say... SD for 200 OMSP? Or a CRU for 300?
Orbital Scan or Jamming at 400 and 500?
Anyways... WP for OBs is holding back this game... a lot. Removing the mechanic will have to be the first step in their revamp of the WP system down the road. |
Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514
803
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 22:20:00 -
[20] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:CoD Style OBs was a terrible idea, its a 'rich get richer' mechanic that gives more power to the players on the battlefield who dont need it. In addition, its completely holding back any chance of people getting WPs for things they should be getting WPs for. We will never get a true WP system that rewards people for their actions until we remove the desire to exploit said system for more OBs.
MAG had a truly wonderful system imo.
Air strikes had some like a 30s cooldown between them with a 2m cooldown per squad leader. In this way, you had some time between strikes, so they weren't spammable but each SL had an opportunity to use their strikes in between the other SLs using theirs. This system would not work in Dust though, as you can make/break your own squads, but there is an easier way to do it.
I proposed a while back a system I thought would work very well in Dust, that is continuously accruing 'OMS Points'.
Your squad gets 1 OMS Point per second, per squad member (not counting squad leader). So you can get up to 5 OMSP/s.
Then you decide the CD you want for OBs... say X minutes? and you make it 60*5*X OMS points per strike. This rewards people getting into squads to get more strikes, and gives both sides equal opportunity for OBs. The SL can then get a little indicator on his HUD which counts up OMS points so he can plan how soon his OB will be ready. We can also make different types of OMS available down the road for different OMSP prices.
Say... SD for 200 OMSP? Or a CRU for 300?
Orbital Scan or Jamming at 400 and 500?
Anyways... WP for OBs is holding back this game... a lot. Removing the mechanic will have to be the first step in their revamp of the WP system down the road.
That's the goal. OBs work as a momentum multiplier for the team with the most momentum. The other team is quickly stomped down, and if they do get an OB it is used to try and stabilize or, in worst cases, punch through a redline camp. Also, the WP for OB makes the WP rewards system so fearful of making too may OBs without inherent risk that we will never have decent WP objectives due to having to account for Boosters. Honestly I'm surprised Drop Uplinks give WP and that they haven't been run into the ground by Boosters.
WP should not relate to OB in any way :v |
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514
2917
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 22:31:00 -
[21] - Quote
Zero Harpuia wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:
A BS OB would destroy the entire map size we have now.
An XL sized shell is the size of one of those hauling trucks, trailer and all. Not quite enough to annihalate the entire map, but it would be significantly larger than the current ones.
A Ragnarok's six quad 3500mm slugs would have some serious kinetic happyjoyjoy when they hit the ground. That's 24 shells the size of cars slamming down from thousands of kilometres away. Then the nuclear payloads explode. |
Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1438
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 22:37:00 -
[22] - Quote
I agree the current method of OBs is stupid and immersion breaking. In an effort to bring back the immersion while not breaking the gameplay, imagine this:
We are fighting on a bunch of planets that ultimately we aren't very familiar with (considering the vast amount we fight on). We cannot simply tell a Capsuleer to call down a strike because (s)he would have no clue where to call it and even the slight miscalculation could be devastating. So as ground troops we must secure a satellite station on the ground to send signals containing the coordinates to the Capsuleers. Once capturing this satellite station it links up with your suit electronics so you can access it via your wrist-thing. The satellite would also have a bad signal because of the warfare so you could only send a transmission up to space once every so many minutes.
All they'd then have to do is find a place to put such an objective within all the current maps, or what they could do that would be even easier is simply make one of the null cannons the satellite station controls as well, giving it dual importance (games like Battlefield do this already giving some bases control of an Air Raid like in BF1943 or an AI dropship like in BF3). |
Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514
805
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 22:56:00 -
[23] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:I agree the current method of OBs is stupid and immersion breaking. In an effort to bring back the immersion while not breaking the gameplay, imagine this:
We are fighting on a bunch of planets that ultimately we aren't very familiar with (considering the vast amount we fight on). We cannot simply tell a Capsuleer to call down a strike because (s)he would have no clue where to call it and even the slight miscalculation could be devastating. So as ground troops we must secure a satellite station on the ground to send signals containing the coordinates to the Capsuleers. Once capturing this satellite station it links up with your suit electronics so you can access it via your wrist-thing. The satellite would also have a bad signal because of the warfare so you could only send a transmission up to space once every so many minutes.
All they'd then have to do is find a place to put such an objective within all the current maps, or what they could do that would be even easier is simply make one of the null cannons the satellite station controls as well, giving it dual importance (games like Battlefield do this already giving some bases control of an Air Raid like in BF1943 or an AI dropship like in BF3). It's a decent idea, and it removes the attachment of WP to OB. My only issue with it is that it still keeps the 'winners keep winning' momentum push, but you could say the same thing about the objective spawners so I may be just thinking too hard. |
Poonmunch
Sanguis Defense Syndicate
238
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 23:10:00 -
[24] - Quote
For pub games: How about an OB is a cheap equipable item? Something that is deployed and has to be defended for a certain amount of time before it can be used to call in a strike within ,say, 100m (or whatever) of its location. After that it is used up and another has to be deployed and defended before it, in turn, can be used.
Munch |
True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1493
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 23:11:00 -
[25] - Quote
Zero Harpuia wrote:I made a thread like this builds ago, but it never got anywhere. Noone listens to the guy with 39 likes in the Feedback section.
Orbitals are currently earned by WP. This means that the WP system is constantly being gamed to get the maximum WP for the maximum explosive heaven strikes. We have already seen causualties of this with the Lagistics losing their rep points to vehicles, Installations, and even to other PLAYERS after about a solid 15 seconds of healing. Furthermore, I want you to imagine the situation....
Soldier: We have fifty hositiles on our location, we need orbital support! Warbarge: Did you earn enough arbitrary battle points for doing random things on the field? S: ...WHAT? W: We aren't just giving these away, you have to earn them. S: But that bombardment will secure our victory. You HIRED us to defend this facility for you! W: And how is that my problem?
In short, getting Bombardments through WP is idiotic, immersion breaking, and furthermore it rewards the winning team with more firepower.
We need to take a look at how Orbitals are earned. If an EVE player uses their guns, which the Orbital bombarders are in case you DUSTies didn't know, they have a cooldown period. Even if more ammo is loaded, each shot has a decent amount of time in between being fired, and then there is a reload period once all the shots in the chamber are gone. Therefore, I think it would make more sense if the Orbitals were on a cooldown timer, and if overused would have a longer timer as the cannon 'reloads'. Those of you who come from MAG, remember the Mortars and Airstrikes? Kinda like that.
Let this not be the only alternative though, brainstorm here people! We need to think of a better Orbital mechanic than bloody BULLETSTORM!
EXAMPLE Start the battle with no Orbital Support as the ships are getting into position. At the 7 minute mark or so, AURA notifies you that Orbital Support is in position. From this point onward, each squad can call in Orbitals. If Squad A calls in an orbital, then they cannot call in another for, say, 10 minutes. The rest of the squads have to wait for the Orbital Cannon to reload, lets say that takes 3 minutes. In this manner, we will have the three full squads that we can have rotating strikes throughout a match and there won't be any exploits like, say, every guy is his own squad for 16 orbitals. You may want to bump the timers up, make there be more space between Orbitals, but this is just a jumping point to get started.
EXAMPLE 2: Credit to Kirk Start the battle with no Orbital Support, as with Example 1. When the ships get into position, a Team Leader, above the Squad Leaders, determines when and where the strikes will land. Squad Leaders still have the power of Squad Orders for maximizing WP and squad coordination. Team Leaders could have a TEAM WIDE version of this, if DEVs decide to add this feature. Cooldown for strikes is 5-7 or so minutes, allowing a few game changing strikes, but not making the battlefield a crater.
If there is a commander mode I would love to see the Commander manage strikes, turrent and CRU assets, and scanning assets.
Basically a Commander spends his time looking at the massive tactical map scanning the map for enemies both infy and tanks and lighting them up, answering OB requests, and deploying turret assets to useful areas, perhaps even using anti infantry and tank MCC turrets to aid in the destruction of enemy forces. |
Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
227
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 23:17:00 -
[26] - Quote
I like the idea of giving OB control to a team leader.
This position could also be expanded on to give it an even greater tactical role.
For example, A team leader is notified that an enemy OB is in bound. 5-10 seconds before it hits, he can see the location of where it will strike. He can then warn his team but there wouldn't be enough time for any soldiers not on the fringes to get away. He also has the option of deploying some sort of flak round that will block 90% of the OB's rounds, however, the cooldown rate on the flak round is greater than the OB cooldown meaning he couldn't block the next OB if the enemy team leader used their OB before the cooldown finishes. |
Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514
805
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 23:22:00 -
[27] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Zero Harpuia wrote:I made a thread like this builds ago, but it never got anywhere. Noone listens to the guy with 39 likes in the Feedback section.
Orbitals are currently earned by WP. This means that the WP system is constantly being gamed to get the maximum WP for the maximum explosive heaven strikes. We have already seen causualties of this with the Lagistics losing their rep points to vehicles, Installations, and even to other PLAYERS after about a solid 15 seconds of healing. Furthermore, I want you to imagine the situation....
Soldier: We have fifty hositiles on our location, we need orbital support! Warbarge: Did you earn enough arbitrary battle points for doing random things on the field? S: ...WHAT? W: We aren't just giving these away, you have to earn them. S: But that bombardment will secure our victory. You HIRED us to defend this facility for you! W: And how is that my problem?
In short, getting Bombardments through WP is idiotic, immersion breaking, and furthermore it rewards the winning team with more firepower.
We need to take a look at how Orbitals are earned. If an EVE player uses their guns, which the Orbital bombarders are in case you DUSTies didn't know, they have a cooldown period. Even if more ammo is loaded, each shot has a decent amount of time in between being fired, and then there is a reload period once all the shots in the chamber are gone. Therefore, I think it would make more sense if the Orbitals were on a cooldown timer, and if overused would have a longer timer as the cannon 'reloads'. Those of you who come from MAG, remember the Mortars and Airstrikes? Kinda like that.
Let this not be the only alternative though, brainstorm here people! We need to think of a better Orbital mechanic than bloody BULLETSTORM!
EXAMPLE Start the battle with no Orbital Support as the ships are getting into position. At the 7 minute mark or so, AURA notifies you that Orbital Support is in position. From this point onward, each squad can call in Orbitals. If Squad A calls in an orbital, then they cannot call in another for, say, 10 minutes. The rest of the squads have to wait for the Orbital Cannon to reload, lets say that takes 3 minutes. In this manner, we will have the three full squads that we can have rotating strikes throughout a match and there won't be any exploits like, say, every guy is his own squad for 16 orbitals. You may want to bump the timers up, make there be more space between Orbitals, but this is just a jumping point to get started.
EXAMPLE 2: Credit to Kirk Start the battle with no Orbital Support, as with Example 1. When the ships get into position, a Team Leader, above the Squad Leaders, determines when and where the strikes will land. Squad Leaders still have the power of Squad Orders for maximizing WP and squad coordination. Team Leaders could have a TEAM WIDE version of this, if DEVs decide to add this feature. Cooldown for strikes is 5-7 or so minutes, allowing a few game changing strikes, but not making the battlefield a crater. If there is a commander mode I would love to see the Commander manage strikes, turrent and CRU assets, and scanning assets. Basically a Commander spends his time looking at the massive tactical map scanning the map for enemies both infy and tanks and lighting them up, answering OB requests, and deploying turret assets to useful areas, perhaps even using anti infantry and tank MCC turrets to aid in the destruction of enemy forces.
Like Operators in Armored Core V? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-WXsUmBbKM I apologize in advance for the Neanderthals voiceovers, watching muted wouldn't make you lose anything :p |
Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514
806
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 02:17:00 -
[28] - Quote
This just in, people boosted off of the points gained for doing damage to vehicles so they could get WP for OB. Logistics are not the only ones to have suffered at the hands of Boosters, but AV and pilots as well!
CCP Wolfman wrote:They were removed because they were being used for farming. Once some of our new anti-farming stuff comes online and we've had a chance to see how the vehicle gameplay is developing we'll consider bringing them back. Original thread here https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=106064 |
slypie11
Planetary Response Organisation
365
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 03:11:00 -
[29] - Quote
I suggest the cooldown is lowered the more OB capable ships in in range of the planet. Also the number of shells dropped could be boosted as well |
Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
436
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 07:56:00 -
[30] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Zero Harpuia wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:
A BS OB would destroy the entire map size we have now.
An XL sized shell is the size of one of those hauling trucks, trailer and all. Not quite enough to annihalate the entire map, but it would be significantly larger than the current ones. A Ragnarok's six quad 3500mm slugs would have some serious kinetic happyjoyjoy when they hit the ground. That's 24 shells the size of cars slamming down from thousands of kilometres away. Then the nuclear payloads explode.
A BS OB from a Apocalypse can destroy a map that we're playing on. I'm pretty sure a OB from a XL turret/launcher would utterly destroy an even larger area, and a doomsday OB would put the destrict "offline" if you get my drift. |
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