DUST Search - Why Improving Hit Detection Wont Fix Mass Drivers

trollface dot jpg wrote:

Reav Hannari wrote:

trollface dot jpg wrote:

An AR pops out for a second or two, then lines up and pops off about 10-20 shots before having to return to cover in the average fire fight. A MD can pop out for a tenth of a second, fire off a single round and deal an equivalent amount of damage over a much greater area, and return to cover. No having to remain exposed to incoming fire, no having to stay in the open taking shots while piling up the damage. This is why MD's are what they are, a great area denial and ambush weapon, as well as being a great weapon for flushing out entrenched enemies

If an AR user can fire off 10-20 shots they are doing 340-789 points of damage. That one round from an MD is 121-254. We won't count the 254 because AR users only thing MD users shoot floors and walls.

Still doesn't change the fact that you can fire a single shot fairly wildly with an MD and be back in cover dealing large damage over a wide area while you have aim and to stay exposed to deal similar damage with the AR. Excuse me for not looking up the numbers right away so I could get a correct bullet count comparison for you.

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trollface dot jpg The Bacon Corporation 103	Posted - 2013.08.31 23:18:00 - [1] - Quote An AR pops out for a second or two, then lines up and pops off about 10-20 shots before having to return to cover in the average fire fight. A MD can pop out for a tenth of a second, fire off a single round and deal an equivalent amount of damage over a much greater area, and return to cover. No having to remain exposed to incoming fire, no having to stay in the open taking shots while piling up the damage. This is why MD's are what they are, a great area denial and ambush weapon, as well as being a great weapon for flushing out entrenched enemies Previously, pre-uprising, hit detection with MD's was off, but they were great as they were even with the hit detection issues. They were difficult to use, but were SO great once you got good with them. It took patience and practice to truly master the mass driver of old. Today's MD's increased clip and mind blowing hit detection blows the classic MD away. Now it is a spammable weapon with no real need to aim. Your team just failed to push into an objective but left everyone in the area injured? Stand somewhere high and lob in 3 shots, get 8 kills. A squad of enemies pushing a doorway? You and a friend pelt the doorway from up high and hold them back indefinitely. Having trouble tracking your foe? The Boundless Assault MD starts off at 6.6 meters, but with the bonus you get from the optimization skill (25% bonus, 25% of 6.6 is 1.65) you end up with 8.25 meters of splash radius. No need to track now boys! As has been pointed out previously in other threads, and for those not in the know, a blast radius is the distance outward that an explosion spreads from the point of impact and is measured from the focal point to one edge just like any other circle's radius is measured. As stated above, 8.25 meters (or 27 feet) is the blast radius of the Boundless, which means that from one side of the explosion to the other across the center , the width of the explosion is 16.5 meters or just over 54 feet. This game has been great in previous builds due to one simple fact: if your good enough, you can dodge it. Gun game in other words, the ability to out maneuver your opponent. There have been issues in the past where things were entirely unavoidable, and they were all fixed to at least give you a fighting chance. Missile crisis anyone? Dumbfire swarms? How about those oldschool OB's that obliterated everything? We didn't even ask for those fixed, but they were anyway. When there is a 54 foot wide explosion being fired at you every second from an even moderately high point, there is no dodging it. There is no cover from it. No amount of skilled strafing or clever usage of cover will save you from it. The only thing to do is stay out of range of it as much as possible. So when one team mostly uses them and the other team doesn't? Basically the other team can't do a thing as they are continuously pushed off of everything they try to touch without an enemy ever having to even be in LoS of them. Basically, easy spamming leading to skilless, easy kills. And for the record, I've been using Mass Drivers off and on since they were first put into the game, so spare me the "you don't know what you're talking about, MD's are hard to use" lines. The abundance of easy kills in this game is the issue we have today with the current system, and this is not just due to MD's. Forge guns, death taxi's, snipers that can OHK with damage mod stacks on a body shot. The only easy kills out there should be vehicle turret kills which are able to be countered by AV. Ya know, the whole AV>Vehicles>Infantry>AV thing. Assault Rifles are given a bad rep because most of the kills in the game are earned using them, but honestly that's because probably a good 80% of people who play this game run them regularly and probably 99% run them at least occasionally. It's hard not to be the top dog weapon when you are the most well known by anyone who comes here from other games. And the most used weapon is almost guaranteed to have the most kills. Gungame is a huge part of using any short to medium range weapon, and the AR is no exception. But the MD is. Sure, if you're out in the open all by yourself, you're gonna have to strafe a bit while firing back. But if there is cover near by, all you have to do is peek your head out for a split second, and in that time you do almost as much damage as a quarter of an AR clip in the space of time it would take to fire off a single AR round, but with very little aiming needed and almost guaranteed success in scoring a hit. I guess.... my TD;LR is..... boom....
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 1076	Posted - 2013.08.31 23:21:00 - [2] - Quote trollface dot jpg wrote: An AR pops out for a second or two, then lines up and pops off about 10-20 shots before having to return to cover in the average fire fight. A MD can pop out for a tenth of a second, fire off a single round and deal an equivalent amount of damage over a much greater area, and return to cover. No having to remain exposed to incoming fire, no having to stay in the open taking shots while piling up the damage. This is why MD's are what they are, a great area denial and ambush weapon, as well as being a great weapon for flushing out entrenched enemies If an AR user can fire off 10-20 shots they are doing 340-789 points of damage. That one round from an MD is 121-254. We won't count the 254 because AR users only thing MD users shoot floors and walls.
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 1076	Posted - 2013.08.31 23:22:00 - [3] - Quote trollface dot jpg wrote: As has been pointed out previously in other threads, and for those not in the know, a blast radius is the distance outward that an explosion spreads from the point of impact and is measured from the focal point to one edge just like any other circle's radius is measured. As stated above, 8.25 meters (or 27 feet) is the blast radius of the Boundless, which means that from one side of the explosion to the other across the center , the width of the explosion is 16.5 meters or just over 54 feet. Damage decreases from center to edge. They have not published the exact formula but if you are caught at the edge of the blast you will receive only a portion of the 121 points of damage.
trollface dot jpg The Bacon Corporation 103	Posted - 2013.08.31 23:42:00 - [4] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: trollface dot jpg wrote: As has been pointed out previously in other threads, and for those not in the know, a blast radius is the distance outward that an explosion spreads from the point of impact and is measured from the focal point to one edge just like any other circle's radius is measured. As stated above, 8.25 meters (or 27 feet) is the blast radius of the Boundless, which means that from one side of the explosion to the other across the center , the width of the explosion is 16.5 meters or just over 54 feet. Damage decreases from center to edge. They have not published the exact formula but if you are caught at the edge of the blast you will receive only a portion of the 121 points of damage. And.... can you link me to where a CCP dev actually said this?
trollface dot jpg The Bacon Corporation 103	Posted - 2013.08.31 23:47:00 - [5] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: trollface dot jpg wrote: An AR pops out for a second or two, then lines up and pops off about 10-20 shots before having to return to cover in the average fire fight. A MD can pop out for a tenth of a second, fire off a single round and deal an equivalent amount of damage over a much greater area, and return to cover. No having to remain exposed to incoming fire, no having to stay in the open taking shots while piling up the damage. This is why MD's are what they are, a great area denial and ambush weapon, as well as being a great weapon for flushing out entrenched enemies If an AR user can fire off 10-20 shots they are doing 340-789 points of damage. That one round from an MD is 121-254. We won't count the 254 because AR users only thing MD users shoot floors and walls. Still doesn't change the fact that you can fire a single shot fairly wildly with an MD and be back in cover dealing large damage over a wide area while you have aim and to stay exposed to deal similar damage with the AR. Excuse me for not looking up the numbers right away so I could get a correct bullet count comparison for you.
Tectonic Fusion the unholy legion of darkstar DARKSTAR ARMY 199	Posted - 2013.08.31 23:49:00 - [6] - Quote It takes a lot of skill to get those direct hits. Oh wait that's what people keep complaining about.
Thor McStrut Reckoners 146	Posted - 2013.08.31 23:52:00 - [7] - Quote TL;DR I can't dance around explosions. Cry more... Working as intended.
Justin Tymes Dem Durrty Boyz Public Disorder. 367	Posted - 2013.08.31 23:58:00 - [8] - Quote You're complaining that the MD user is using cover to his advantage, and that as an AR user, you can't use the same tactic? It's weapon advantage, you gain the ability as an AR users to melt the bulkiest of Infantry in less than 2 seconds.
Rynoceros Rise of Old Dudes 615	Posted - 2013.09.01 00:17:00 - [9] - Quote 1 meter = 1 merc foot Blast radius isn't as big as the numbers suggest.
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 1079	Posted - 2013.09.01 00:22:00 - [10] - Quote trollface dot jpg wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: trollface dot jpg wrote: As has been pointed out previously in other threads, and for those not in the know, a blast radius is the distance outward that an explosion spreads from the point of impact and is measured from the focal point to one edge just like any other circle's radius is measured. As stated above, 8.25 meters (or 27 feet) is the blast radius of the Boundless, which means that from one side of the explosion to the other across the center , the width of the explosion is 16.5 meters or just over 54 feet. Damage decreases from center to edge. They have not published the exact formula but if you are caught at the edge of the blast you will receive only a portion of the 121 points of damage. And.... can you link me to where a CCP dev actually said this? https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1176659#post1176659

CLONE117 Planetary Response Organization Test Friends Please Ignore 258	Posted - 2013.09.01 00:22:00 - [11] - Quote well think of it this way remove damage mods a lot less of these stupid cod loving nubs might complain less.. the guns wont need to get their massive nerfs... and the md would continue to be great at making those super fast strafing nubs useless in combat... thats why explosives were invented... it was to counter the ninja... just because the ninja can dodge our bullets doesnt mean he should be able to dodge our nice grenade launcher...
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 1079	Posted - 2013.09.01 00:24:00 - [12] - Quote trollface dot jpg wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: trollface dot jpg wrote: An AR pops out for a second or two, then lines up and pops off about 10-20 shots before having to return to cover in the average fire fight. A MD can pop out for a tenth of a second, fire off a single round and deal an equivalent amount of damage over a much greater area, and return to cover. No having to remain exposed to incoming fire, no having to stay in the open taking shots while piling up the damage. This is why MD's are what they are, a great area denial and ambush weapon, as well as being a great weapon for flushing out entrenched enemies If an AR user can fire off 10-20 shots they are doing 340-789 points of damage. That one round from an MD is 121-254. We won't count the 254 because AR users only thing MD users shoot floors and walls. Still doesn't change the fact that you can fire a single shot fairly wildly with an MD and be back in cover dealing large damage over a wide area while you have aim and to stay exposed to deal similar damage with the AR. Excuse me for not looking up the numbers right away so I could get a correct bullet count comparison for you. Grenades and grenade launchers are specifically for killing the enemy that are using cover. If your squad doesn't have a mass driver user then you are at a tactical disadvantage.


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