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Shotty GoBang
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
740
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Posted - 2013.08.31 18:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
Dear Devs and Members of CPM,
At present, two competing schools of thought exist on the topic of Stacking Penalty:
The first, Stacking Penalties apply to all equipment having a percentage-based bonus.
The second, Stacking Penalties apply only to equipment which explicitly states as such in its description.
Your clarification on this matter would be most appreciated.
Thank You,
Shotty GoBang |
Al the destroyer
The Phoenix Federation
13
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 19:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
Shotty GoBang wrote:Dear Devs and Members of CPM,
At present, two competing schools of thought exist on the topic of Stacking Penalty:
The first, Stacking Penalties apply to all equipment having a percentage-based bonus.
The second, Stacking Penalties apply only to equipment which explicitly states as such in its description.
Your clarification on this matter would be most appreciated.
Thank You,
Shotty GoBang
I second this!! |
Shotty GoBang
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
741
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 19:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
To offer example, enormous disparity exists in calculating the affect of Range Amplifiers by these competing schools of thought. The item description of Complex Range Amplifiers does not indicate that Stacking Penalties apply.
Maximum Scan Range - Gallente Scout (with Stacking Penalty)
Lvl(1) Light-Frame = 10.00 meters
Lvl(1) Gallente Scout = +10% = 11.00 meters
Lvl(2) Gallente Scout = +10% = 12.10 meters
Lvl(3) Gallente Scout = +10% = 13.31 meters
Lvl(4) Gallente Scout = +10% = 14.64 meters
Lvl(5) Gallente Scout = +10% = 16.11 meters
Lvl(1) Long Range Scanning = +10% = 17.72 meters
Lvl(2) Long Range Scanning = +10% = 19.49 meters
Lvl(3) Long Range Scanning = +10% = 21.44 meters
Lvl(4) Long Range Scanning = +10% = 23.59 meters
Lvl(5) Long Range Scanning = +10% = 25.95 meters
1 Complex Range Amplifiers = +45.00% = 37.63 meters
2 Complex Range Amplifiers = +39.11% = 52.34 meters
3 Complex Range Amplifiers = +25.68% = 65.78 meters
4 Complex Range Amplifiers = +12.73% = 74.16 meters
Maximum Scan Range - Gallente Scout (without Stacking Penalty)
Lvl(1) Light-Frame = 10.00 meters
Lvl(1) Gallente Scout = +10% = 11.00 meters
Lvl(2) Gallente Scout = +10% = 12.10 meters
Lvl(3) Gallente Scout = +10% = 13.31 meters
Lvl(4) Gallente Scout = +10% = 14.64 meters
Lvl(5) Gallente Scout = +10% = 16.11 meters
Lvl(1) Long Range Scanning = +10% = 17.72 meters
Lvl(2) Long Range Scanning = +10% = 19.49 meters
Lvl(3) Long Range Scanning = +10% = 21.44 meters
Lvl(4) Long Range Scanning = +10% = 23.59 meters
Lvl(5) Long Range Scanning = +10% = 25.95 meters
1 Complex Range Amplifiers = +45.00% = 37.63 meters
2 Complex Range Amplifiers = +45.00% = 54.56 meters
3 Complex Range Amplifiers = +45.00% = 79.11 meters
4 Complex Range Amplifiers = +45.00% = 114.71 meters
- Shotty GoBang |
Hecarim Van Hohen
Bullet Cluster
140
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 19:12:00 -
[4] - Quote
Shotty GoBang wrote:
The second, Stacking Penalties apply only to equipment which explicitly state as such in item description.
I'd go with this one as it is the right one and if it's not then CCP has ****** up somewhere. |
Shotty GoBang
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
741
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 19:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
Hecarim Van Hohen wrote:
I'd go with this one as it is the right one and if it's not then CCP has ****** up somewhere.
I am inclined to agree with you, though others may disagree. Hence our present need for clarification.
|
Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
429
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 04:44:00 -
[6] - Quote
This is the kind of thread where it actually would be useful to hear a developer reply instead of the countless nerf this or that threads that have been running the show. |
Valto Nyntus
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
23
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Posted - 2013.09.01 04:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
about stacking penalty, with vehicle shield skills leveled up(or maybe also without) the passive module the increase shield resistance has the wrong value. example base resist is 6% with skill + 11% with module = less than 17%. |
Thurak1
Psygod9
116
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 06:58:00 -
[8] - Quote
This wouldnt even be an issue if CCP simply showed all information accuratly on your dropsuit fitting page. For example i have armor 5 and shield 5 so when i put on my heavy suit with no mods i have just over 1k ehps. I dont get to see the full details of this until i get into a match.
I can fully understand not showing such values in the market but it would be very nice if on the dropsuit fitting page if it showed you the stats as they apply to you given your skills and including any stacking penalties. Then there would be no question about when penalties apply we could figure it out on our own. It would also allow us to give feedback if something is not working properly. |
Nyra Volki
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
44
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 07:46:00 -
[9] - Quote
50% of 10.0 is 5 so were are you getting 16.11 |
DJINN Marauder
Ancient Exiles
999
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 07:51:00 -
[10] - Quote
Nyra Volki wrote:50% of 10.0 is 5 so were are you getting 16.11
He is adding the 10% of x (new scout base scanning range) each time.
Not sure if that's correct or adding them would be. |
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Nyra Volki
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
44
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 08:13:00 -
[11] - Quote
DJINN Marauder wrote:Nyra Volki wrote:50% of 10.0 is 5 so were are you getting 16.11 He is adding the 10% of x (new scout base scanning range) each time. Not sure if that's correct or adding them would be.
Now I'm just confused. |
Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
Top Men.
1371
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 08:29:00 -
[12] - Quote
Thurak1 wrote:This wouldnt even be an issue if CCP simply showed all information accuratly on your dropsuit fitting page. For example i have armor 5 and shield 5 so when i put on my heavy suit with no mods i have just over 1k ehps. I dont get to see the full details of this until i get into a match.
I can fully understand not showing such values in the market but it would be very nice if on the dropsuit fitting page if it showed you the stats as they apply to you given your skills and including any stacking penalties. Then there would be no question about when penalties apply we could figure it out on our own. It would also allow us to give feedback if something is not working properly.
Agreed that there should be more dynamic stats shown on the fittings page but currently armor and shield are shown as the values after skill bonuses. What does need to be shown are the stats for stuff like scanning and damage mods, which are not shown at all at the moment. |
voidfaction
Void of Faction
66
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 17:13:00 -
[13] - Quote
dust 514 Fitting tool uses a different equation
base x skill x suit bonus x mod x mod x mod x mod
skill
lvl1 10%
lvl2 20%
lvl3 30%
lvl4 40%
lvl5 50%
suit bonus
lvl1 10%
lvl2 20%
lvl3 30%
lvl4 40%
lvl5 50%
at lvl 5 range and scout with 4 complex mods = 99.46113906 |
Shotty GoBang
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
771
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 22:07:00 -
[14] - Quote
DJINN Marauder wrote:Nyra Volki wrote:50% of 10.0 is 5 so were are you getting 16.11 He is adding the 10% of x (new scout base scanning range) each time. Not sure if that's correct or adding them would be.
You guys are right (in that I am wrong).
If percentage increases applied to new base, than my gk.0 would have 316 CPU ...
250.00 = Base CPU
252.50 = Core Uprades (1)
255.02 = Core Uprades (2)
257.57 = Core Uprades (3)
260.15 = Core Uprades (4)
273.15 = Electronics (1)
286.81 = Electronics (2)
301.15 = Electronics (3)
316.21 = Electronics (4)
I do not have 316 CPU. I only have 312. Which can be explained using ...
250 = Base CPU
260 = +4% from Core Uprades (250 * 1.04)
312 = +20% from Electronics (260 * 1.20)
The question of stacking penalty remains. I do hope they answer it.
- Shotty
* Hurries back to the Scout thread to fix our dampening scenarios *
|
Bendtner92
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
987
|
Posted - 2013.09.01 22:22:00 -
[15] - Quote
I'm pretty sure every item giving a percentage has a stacking penalty, even if the description does not say this.
This is mostly a guess and shouldn't be taken as fact though. |
Shotty GoBang
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
771
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 02:16:00 -
[16] - Quote
voidfaction wrote:dust 514 Fitting tool uses a different equation
base x skill x suit bonus x mod x mod x mod x mod
skill
lvl1 10%
lvl2 20%
lvl3 30%
lvl4 40%
lvl5 50%
suit bonus
lvl1 10%
lvl2 20%
lvl3 30%
lvl4 40%
lvl5 50%
at lvl 5 range and scout with 4 complex mods = 99.46113906
You are correct; I've updated the progressions in Thread #3. Assuming no stacking penalty applies, our figures match exactly. Thanks, Void. |
hydraSlav's
Ostrakon Agency
Gallente Federation
293
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 18:03:00 -
[17] - Quote
Shotty GoBang wrote:Dear Devs and Members of CPM,
At present, two competing schools of thought exist on the topic of Stacking Penalty:
The first, Stacking Penalties apply to all modules having a percentage-based bonus.
The second, Stacking Penalties apply only to modules which explicitly state as such in item description.
Your clarification on this matter would be most appreciated. Kindly refer to Thread Response #3 for the basis of this request.
Thank You,
Shotty GoBang
Let me put my 2 cents. Both statements are wrong. (No disrespect  )
There is at least 1 verifiable % based attribute that is not affected by stacking penalty.
Shield Energizer module, affects both:
- % of Shield Recharge Rate
- % of Shield (Penalty)
The description does not mention stacking penalty (at least it didn't in the past, someone please verify)
However, the % of Shield Recharge Rate bonus was already available with Shield Recharger modules. And there it is clearly stated as a stacking penalized module. Tests have shown that Shield Energizer Module does in fact apply stacking penalty to its % Shield Recharge Rate.
This invalidates the statement #2
The same module, also affects % of Shield (as penalty). We know that penalties are subject to stacking reduction just as any other attribute. This is easily verified with armor plates and movement penalties. I have tested that Shield Energizer Module does not stacking penalize the % of Shield. So there you have a % based attribute that is not stacking penalized.
This invalidates the statement #1
I talk about this behavior of Shield Energizer module here #247 (although at that time, i didn't think anyone would care about numbers so didn't write any down, but i had explicitly verified that in-game)
The thing is that stacking penalty is applied per attribute, not per module, so the description can never be accurate unless it states all attributes affected by the module. And the prevalence of % based modules having stacking penalty is just that: a trend, not a rule.
The only way to get an answer from CCP is either through a full data-dump that would list attributes and whether they are stacking penalized or not, or by asking them directly if a certain attribute is stacking penalized or not. As it stands, the OP question is too generalized and cannot be answered.
Hope this helps
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