DUST Search - [Feedback] Armor Tanking Dropsuits now OP??

TrueXer0z wrote:

Oh I am gonna get some hate from this one....Sorry fellow armor tankers.

So Just to put this in perspective, I can run both a G. Assault and a Min Logi Proto suit and I am able to fit most proto level mods. So let me get started.

My Current Fit as a Min Logi which I use over my G. Assault.

Stats: 258 / 546 - Shield / Armor
Sprint Speed: 6.22

Weapon: Durval Assault Rifle
Grenade: M1 Locus / Flux / Packed AV

High Slots:
2x Complex Shield Extenders
2x Complex Light Damage Modifiers

Low Slots:
3x Enhanced Armor Plates
1x Basic Armor Plates

Equipment:
1x Compact Nanohives - Would be 2x if I had better fitting skills.
1x R-9 Drop Uplinks
1x Militia Nanite Injector BPO

So, that is a little over 800 total hit points. My sprint speed may seem low, but after you get used to it, it really isn't that bad at all. I regularly am in the top 3 if not 1st in pub matches on my side if I am using this fit, which I rarely do in Pubs. The idea is that I have a heavy tank and still have the room for the damage mods. Which bring my damage up to around 50 damage per bullet. I regularly go toe to toe with heavies and take them down without flinching. I mean literally I cant rush or just stand still and out tank and out damage them.

(Now I say "Per Bullet" because dps is based on the fact that every bullet is hitting the target. When we all know that is never the case.)

This fit allows me to also hold true to my role as a Logi, I may not be using a rep tool, but I still provide fast reps/ammo, Uplinks, and a stick when needed.

Now this brings me to the point of this post. When the changes are made to the armor plates, my tank will not only increase, but I will be running faster then I normally run. Since I still have CPU and Powergrid to spare I can now replace an enhanced plate with a complex and gain that hp bonus and still be running faster then originally. But, for all intensive purposes lets say my fit stays exactly the same. My HP would look like so:

258 / 643 - Shield / Armor - 901 Total HP
Sprint Speed: 6.6

Not a bad buff. Speed looks a ton better, 100 or so HP buff. Seems reasonable. But lets say I was perfectly happy with my speed and that I don't really care about providing uplinks. If anything I could fit a different suit with the uplinks then spawn into the following and just bring a compact nanohive or two. Which cost next to nothing to fit. They also give the second best rep of any nanohive and give you ammo. Yes you can carry only one, but if you are a logi and not fitting any other equipment then you can put multiple in your fit.

Now instead I can fit 3x Complex Armor Plates, and a Basic. Depending on your fitting skills. Mine are all at 3 currently. So I have room for improvement. But, lets go with this for now. Now if I run this my Stats would be more along the line of:

258 / 730 - Shields / Armor - 988 Total HP
Sprint Speed: 6.3**
** give a 1 or 2 more armor points for the 0.** that I didn't fully count
* Still a bit faster then normal

So now my Speed is back to what I am used to and I have almost 1k HP. This however can be augmented by replacing the basic with an enhanced and bringing me back to my normal sprint speed and putting me over 1k total HP. In a logi Suit. All this while keeping my damage at around 50 damage per bullet. Hell, if I get my fitting skills to 5 all around...including my weapon fitting skills I would most likely be able to fit my R-9 uplinks and a basic nanite injecter without a problem.

Of all things I hate to blow the whistle on myself, because I am talking about a class I run with primarily, I couldn't comment on what it would be like for other class type, but I can only see that Armor tanking becoming a bit over powered. Anyway, thanks if you guys read this whole thing. I assume there will be haters out there and maybe I am totally off about this all, but oh well.

-- TL - DR --

Min Logi Armor Tanking OP RAWR!!!

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TrueXer0z DUST University Ivy League 171	Posted - 2013.08.30 16:40:00 - [1] - Quote Oh I am gonna get some hate from this one....Sorry fellow armor tankers. So Just to put this in perspective, I can run both a G. Assault and a Min Logi Proto suit and I am able to fit most proto level mods. So let me get started. My Current Fit as a Min Logi which I use over my G. Assault. Stats: 258 / 546 - Shield / Armor Sprint Speed: 6.22 Weapon: Durval Assault Rifle Grenade: M1 Locus / Flux / Packed AV High Slots: 2x Complex Shield Extenders 2x Complex Light Damage Modifiers Low Slots: 3x Enhanced Armor Plates 1x Basic Armor Plates Equipment: 1x Compact Nanohives - Would be 2x if I had better fitting skills. 1x R-9 Drop Uplinks 1x Militia Nanite Injector BPO So, that is a little over 800 total hit points. My sprint speed may seem low, but after you get used to it, it really isn't that bad at all. I regularly am in the top 3 if not 1st in pub matches on my side if I am using this fit, which I rarely do in Pubs. The idea is that I have a heavy tank and still have the room for the damage mods. Which bring my damage up to around 50 damage per bullet. I regularly go toe to toe with heavies and take them down without flinching. I mean literally I cant rush or just stand still and out tank and out damage them. (Now I say "Per Bullet" because dps is based on the fact that every bullet is hitting the target. When we all know that is never the case.) This fit allows me to also hold true to my role as a Logi, I may not be using a rep tool, but I still provide fast reps/ammo, Uplinks, and a stick when needed. Now this brings me to the point of this post. When the changes are made to the armor plates, my tank will not only increase, but I will be running faster then I normally run. Since I still have CPU and Powergrid to spare I can now replace an enhanced plate with a complex and gain that hp bonus and still be running faster then originally. But, for all intensive purposes lets say my fit stays exactly the same. My HP would look like so: 258 / 643 - Shield / Armor - 901 Total HP Sprint Speed: 6.6 Not a bad buff. Speed looks a ton better, 100 or so HP buff. Seems reasonable. But lets say I was perfectly happy with my speed and that I don't really care about providing uplinks. If anything I could fit a different suit with the uplinks then spawn into the following and just bring a compact nanohive or two. Which cost next to nothing to fit. They also give the second best rep of any nanohive and give you ammo. Yes you can carry only one, but if you are a logi and not fitting any other equipment then you can put multiple in your fit. Now instead I can fit 3x Complex Armor Plates, and a Basic. Depending on your fitting skills. Mine are all at 3 currently. So I have room for improvement. But, lets go with this for now. Now if I run this my Stats would be more along the line of: 258 / 730 - Shields / Armor - 988 Total HP Sprint Speed: 6.3 give a 1 or 2 more armor points for the 0.** that I didn't fully count * Still a bit faster then normal So now my Speed is back to what I am used to and I have almost 1k HP. This however can be augmented by replacing the basic with an enhanced and bringing me back to my normal sprint speed and putting me over 1k total HP. In a logi Suit. All this while keeping my damage at around 50 damage per bullet. Hell, if I get my fitting skills to 5 all around...including my weapon fitting skills I would most likely be able to fit my R-9 uplinks and a basic nanite injecter without a problem. Of all things I hate to blow the whistle on myself, because I am talking about a class I run with primarily, I couldn't comment on what it would be like for other class type, but I can only see that Armor tanking becoming a bit over powered. Anyway, thanks if you guys read this whole thing. I assume there will be haters out there and maybe I am totally off about this all, but oh well. -- TL - DR -- Min Logi Armor Tanking OP RAWR!!!
Lynn Beck Granite Mercenary Division 132	Posted - 2013.08.30 17:03:00 - [2] - Quote All it takes to drop armor right now is a few ar shots and a cooked locus nade. Mlt locuses do about 600-700 damage to armor thx to damage bonus. Again, in it's curreent state i fear no armor. Only thing that shiekds is afraid of is ars and scramblers
TrueXer0z DUST University Ivy League 171	Posted - 2013.08.30 17:28:00 - [3] - Quote Yeah, I just see myself doing just fine and with the buff it is just going to be better. I guess at lower levels it might be different, but I only really think about endgame content. which is why I based the post on proto level gear. The biggest thing I see is that I have a much better tank and still can keep the damage. I could even drop a shield extender and do more damage and have a beast of a tank. Just seems one sided. I don't seem to have very many issues with Shield tankers.
Django Quik Dust2Dust. Top Men. 1357	Posted - 2013.08.30 17:57:00 - [4] - Quote How about we play some 1.4 before we start judging the balance? If it's too much, CCP will likely rebalance it for 1.5.
TrueXer0z DUST University Ivy League 172	Posted - 2013.08.30 18:03:00 - [5] - Quote Django Quik wrote: How about we play some 1.4 before we start judging the balance? If it's too much, CCP will likely rebalance it for 1.5. Ummm not very constructive....This is a feedback post and keep in mind the title. I put up some practical data. One does not need to play the game to see the numbers. If anything it could gather some opinions on the matter and give me a better perspective. Your post does non of that. Silly troll...lol...moving on.
Hecarim Van Hohen Bullet Cluster 125	Posted - 2013.08.30 18:11:00 - [6] - Quote Django Quik wrote: How about we play some 1.4 before we start judging the balance? If it's too much, CCP will likely rebalance it for 1.5. QFT While you provided numbers they don't translate perfectly back to the 1.4 patch changes. Also, armor will be OP never bacon on the other hand might be OP. good post though :)
IceShifter Childhaspawn DUST University Ivy League 208	Posted - 2013.08.30 18:15:00 - [7] - Quote I see what you are getting at Tru. I think instead of going for Armor = Shields, CCP is trying to balance out the damage bonuses. I don't really want to pull the wiki right now, but the damage bonuses versus armor (That we are all used to BTW) gimp armor even with higher EHP. Instead of tweaking the weapons, which usually end up in disaster for the entire community, they are giving armor the clear advantage in EHP while leaving that EHP vulnerable in a way that shields are not. Ill never bump a troll, but we will have to see how this works in practice.
TrueXer0z DUST University Ivy League 172	Posted - 2013.08.30 18:17:00 - [8] - Quote IceShifter Childhaspawn wrote: I see what you are getting at Tru. I think instead of going for Armor = Shields, CCP is trying to balance out the damage bonuses. I don't really want to pull the wiki right now, but the damage bonuses versus armor (That we are all used to BTW) gimp armor even with higher EHP. Instead of tweaking the weapons, which usually end up in disaster for the entire community, they are giving armor the clear advantage in EHP while leaving that EHP vulnerable in a way that shields are not. Ill never bump a troll, but we will have to see how this works in practice. You know I am always willing to spend the time to get 100% accurate data. I was just spit balling it on this post to get some feedback myself from the community.
IceShifter Childhaspawn DUST University Ivy League 208	Posted - 2013.08.30 18:43:00 - [9] - Quote Okay, I understand that, here is my reasoning. The most common weapon is an AR. (+10% / -10%) anti -shield, usually deployed mid-range. The most common spam is explosive, (-20% /+20%) anti -armor, usually deployed at close range The community. When FOTM became used to refer to the flaylock builds nearly every battle was taking place at CR. before then it was MR /CR. When FOTM referred to the MD, battle type swung towards MR and squads began to ranger file again. If I know that I have an enemy coming at me with a high buffer and low resist to a type of weapon, I will try to dictate range to gain the advantage. When I watch the pubs I see 3 people doing this and 10 others running straight into the line of fire. (The rest are AFK'ing) My point is that the community at large changes tactics whenever a change is deployed. Whether knowingly or unknowingly. I don't have a basis with which to judge how they will likely react to armor tanks being harder to kill.
ALPHA DECRIPTER M.E.R.C. Conventional Forces D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 377	Posted - 2013.08.30 20:02:00 - [10] - Quote Wow that's a lot of HP... I might have to flux you b4 driving my knife through your throat or spraying you in the face with my SMG. Armor has the edge of dishing out damage so with your data I would say it's alright... and I'm a scout that lol. `Sigh. Just another fun game of DUST.

lithkul devant Legions of Infinite Dominion 41	Posted - 2013.08.30 20:33:00 - [11] - Quote Simply put, armor still won't be doing better then shields after 1.4, even if it is, it really doesn't matter, armor doesn't regenerate nearly as fast as shields and you're just delaying your death.
NOAMIzzzzz BIG BAD W0LVES Eternal Syndicate 16	Posted - 2013.08.30 23:11:00 - [12] - Quote ARMOR RAWR
Lorhak Gannarsein DUST University Ivy League 242	Posted - 2013.08.31 12:24:00 - [13] - Quote fwiw, though CCP might have said explosives are +20/-20, they're actually still +35/-30; apparently they're bugged. Couldn't link you any hard research, but this is apparently the case.
Auld Syne Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic 87	Posted - 2013.08.31 12:42:00 - [14] - Quote I get the feeling you probably think Armor and shields are supposed to work the same way They do not. Shields allow for mobility and self regeneration. Armor allows for High hp, capable of dealing more damage at the cost of Slow movement. Armor and Shields were not meant to be played the exact same way.
Patrick57 GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 86	Posted - 2013.08.31 15:34:00 - [15] - Quote TrueXer0z wrote: Oh I am gonna get some hate from this one....Sorry fellow armor tankers. So Just to put this in perspective, I can run both a G. Assault and a Min Logi Proto suit and I am able to fit most proto level mods. So let me get started. My Current Fit as a Min Logi which I use over my G. Assault. Stats: 258 / 546 - Shield / Armor Sprint Speed: 6.22 Weapon: Durval Assault Rifle Grenade: M1 Locus / Flux / Packed AV High Slots: 2x Complex Shield Extenders 2x Complex Light Damage Modifiers Low Slots: 3x Enhanced Armor Plates 1x Basic Armor Plates Equipment: 1x Compact Nanohives - Would be 2x if I had better fitting skills. 1x R-9 Drop Uplinks 1x Militia Nanite Injector BPO So, that is a little over 800 total hit points. My sprint speed may seem low, but after you get used to it, it really isn't that bad at all. I regularly am in the top 3 if not 1st in pub matches on my side if I am using this fit, which I rarely do in Pubs. The idea is that I have a heavy tank and still have the room for the damage mods. Which bring my damage up to around 50 damage per bullet. I regularly go toe to toe with heavies and take them down without flinching. I mean literally I cant rush or just stand still and out tank and out damage them. (Now I say "Per Bullet" because dps is based on the fact that every bullet is hitting the target. When we all know that is never the case.) This fit allows me to also hold true to my role as a Logi, I may not be using a rep tool, but I still provide fast reps/ammo, Uplinks, and a stick when needed. Now this brings me to the point of this post. When the changes are made to the armor plates, my tank will not only increase, but I will be running faster then I normally run. Since I still have CPU and Powergrid to spare I can now replace an enhanced plate with a complex and gain that hp bonus and still be running faster then originally. But, for all intensive purposes lets say my fit stays exactly the same. My HP would look like so: 258 / 643 - Shield / Armor - 901 Total HP Sprint Speed: 6.6 Not a bad buff. Speed looks a ton better, 100 or so HP buff. Seems reasonable. But lets say I was perfectly happy with my speed and that I don't really care about providing uplinks. If anything I could fit a different suit with the uplinks then spawn into the following and just bring a compact nanohive or two. Which cost next to nothing to fit. They also give the second best rep of any nanohive and give you ammo. Yes you can carry only one, but if you are a logi and not fitting any other equipment then you can put multiple in your fit. Now instead I can fit 3x Complex Armor Plates, and a Basic. Depending on your fitting skills. Mine are all at 3 currently. So I have room for improvement. But, lets go with this for now. Now if I run this my Stats would be more along the line of: 258 / 730 - Shields / Armor - 988 Total HP Sprint Speed: 6.3 give a 1 or 2 more armor points for the 0.** that I didn't fully count * Still a bit faster then normal So now my Speed is back to what I am used to and I have almost 1k HP. This however can be augmented by replacing the basic with an enhanced and bringing me back to my normal sprint speed and putting me over 1k total HP. In a logi Suit. All this while keeping my damage at around 50 damage per bullet. Hell, if I get my fitting skills to 5 all around...including my weapon fitting skills I would most likely be able to fit my R-9 uplinks and a basic nanite injecter without a problem. Of all things I hate to blow the whistle on myself, because I am talking about a class I run with primarily, I couldn't comment on what it would be like for other class type, but I can only see that Armor tanking becoming a bit over powered. Anyway, thanks if you guys read this whole thing. I assume there will be haters out there and maybe I am totally off about this all, but oh well. -- TL - DR -- Min Logi Armor Tanking OP RAWR!!! lol with my proto logi fit I run about 5.79. Slower than a heavy. Stacked up 4 enhanced armor plates for maybe more than 700 HP. Don't have alot of skills invested to armor upgrades and such.


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