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Greasepalms
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
191
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Posted - 2013.08.29 03:39:00 -
[1] - Quote
What if Logistics suits had a negative bonus to weapon efficiency (damage)? Say -3% damage to standard weapons, -5% to adv and -10% to prototype weapons.
With these changes, you'd need to stack damage mods in order to get comparable performance to what an Assault suit could do at the cost of less mods (theoretically, I just came up with the negative percentages in a hurry), and, as such, have a lower EHP output due to those highslot being used to stack Dmg mods instead of shields. Not worth it, IMO.
...
Thoughts?
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Sarducar Kahn
xCosmic Voidx The Superpowers
59
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Posted - 2013.08.29 03:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
I think they should loose their module slots. The problem is that they have tons of mods and the CPU/PG to fit them any way they like. Limit their slots to limit their options. A decent tank can be given with the suit so they are more survivable. |
hackerzilla
Defenders of the Helghast Dream
253
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Posted - 2013.08.29 03:50:00 -
[3] - Quote
Nope. Insta UP. No sidearm is a perfect damage nerd. Sidearms (excluding nova knifes) are a crutch to light/heavy weapons. AR + SMG = Easy mode |
Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S.
6
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Posted - 2013.08.29 04:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
Nope. Logi suits are fine. They can't kill as fast as an assault, but can take a bigger beating, seems balanced to me. The only one that was OP got nerfed anyway. They are balanced. |
Doshneil Antaro
Dem Durrty Boyz Public Disorder.
114
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Posted - 2013.08.29 04:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
My thought was that all classes should have +s and -s to every weapon.
Scout: + to sniper, nova knives No change to shotgun or smg - to everything else, with biggest - to av
Logi: + av, smg No change to MD (once minimum arming distance is fixed), or any other sidarm - AR, scrambler sniper, laser
Assualt: + AR, scrambler, laser No change to av, and most sidearms - MD, sniper
Heavy: +hmg , forge - to sniper, later, swarm
This was just shooting from the hip. I didn't cover all weapons or even make this list that great. This is just a basic guidelines, so don't go all crazy and bash one of these ideas, rather expand and make your own +/- that makes sense in terms of balance.
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Greasepalms
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
193
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Posted - 2013.08.29 04:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:Nope. Logi suits are fine. They can't kill as fast as an assault, but can take a bigger beating, seems balanced to me. The only one that was OP got nerfed anyway. They are balanced.
How come they don't kill as fast?
The only logistics suit with a lower number of highslots compared to its assault counterpart is the Logi Mk.0 (4 slots, compared to the Assault's Mk.0's 5 slots). Every other logi has an equal or higher (cal lolgi) number of high slots, thus allowing them to stack more dmg mods.
Furthermore, you still have an across-the-board upgraded number of low slots to fit those pg upgrades and armor plates.
more damage, more health, more equipment and better racial bonuses.
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KING CHECKMATE
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
676
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Posted - 2013.08.29 04:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:Nope. Logi suits are fine. They can't kill as fast as an assault, but can take a bigger beating, seems balanced to me. The only one that was OP got nerfed anyway. They are balanced.
I have to agree with Fizzer94 here. I dont play Logi,and im VERY fond of SMG's. Not being able to carry Side arm + Regular Speed + Lacking Stamina ,are enough downsides that MUST be compensated with the extra slots. So overall, Logis are EXPENSIVE ASSAULTS THAT CARRY More equipment.
But they are balanced i think..... |
I-Shayz-I
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
715
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Posted - 2013.08.29 11:17:00 -
[8] - Quote
Want to balance logistics? Give us more points for doing logistical things...
Killing things seems to be effective in terms of earning wp, so we do it because that's what earns more. If we got more points for hacking, reviving, repairing, giving ammo, etc...we'd do more of that instead of using our main weapon all the time.
I think it was a stupid idea for CCP to give logistics less health and more slots...because that means we need to use more of those slots for staying alive than we do modules that help our class. It also means sacrificing cpu/pg allocated to our equipment just to compete. So instead, logistics should have more base health, but less slots. Either that, or we should have INSANE armor repair and shield recharge.
Why do I say repair/recharge? I don't know much about EVE, but whenever I see one of those logistics ships, they're always getting hit with missiles and explosives that take huge chunks out of their small amount of health, but they're able to recharge it rapidly. So basically in order to kill a logistics, you have kill them in one go quickly or else they'll just recharge and their buddy they were healing will destroy you. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1294
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Posted - 2013.08.29 11:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
Greasepalms wrote:Fizzer94 wrote:Nope. Logi suits are fine. They can't kill as fast as an assault, but can take a bigger beating, seems balanced to me. The only one that was OP got nerfed anyway. They are balanced. How come they don't kill as fast? The only logistics suit with a lower number of highslots compared to its assault counterpart is the Logi Mk.0 (4 slots, compared to the Assault's Mk.0's 5 slots). Every other logi has an equal or higher (cal lolgi) number of high slots, thus allowing them to stack more dmg mods. Furthermore, you still have an across-the-board upgraded number of low slots to fit those pg upgrades and armor plates. more damage, more health, more equipment and better racial bonuses.
Nope, all Logistics suits have 1 more slot than the assault counterpart, except the CK.0 which has 2 more slots. We get the same damage as an assault suit, and the more health comes if your using an armor suit and you use complex armor plates which makes a Logistics suit HP about 20-60 armor HP higher than the assault, which is... not a lot specially for the big sacrifice of speed.
The assault suits have decent racials, except the Amarr suit. The assault role bonus is terrible though.
This should be the balance of Logistics and assault.
Logistics - high EHP, low damage.
Assault - Low EHP, high damage.
Low EHP keeps the assaults at a point where they NEED to return to the Logistics guy to provide triage support.. The high EHP of the Logistics suits ensures that when performing triage support we do not get obliterated, and that when support fire is needed we can provide decent damage and not get our brains blown out.
What people want is high HP/High damage assaults and, Low HP/Low damage logistics. This is awfully imbalanced, currently a team of Assault suits synchronizing equipment can completely rule out the necessity of a logistics suits, and Logistics suit aren't even necessary to begin with, most people do not care much for logistic support especially in PC what people want in PC is damage. |
TheEnd762
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
180
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Posted - 2013.08.29 11:36:00 -
[10] - Quote
Doshneil Antaro wrote:My thought was that all classes should have +s and -s to every weapon.
Scout: + to sniper, nova knives No change to shotgun or smg - to everything else, with biggest - to av
Logi: + av, smg No change to MD (once minimum arming distance is fixed), or any other sidarm - AR, scrambler sniper, laser
Assualt: + AR, scrambler, laser No change to av, and most sidearms - MD, sniper
Heavy: +hmg , forge - to sniper, later, swarm
This was just shooting from the hip. I didn't cover all weapons or even make this list that great. This is just a basic guidelines, so don't go all crazy and bash one of these ideas, rather expand and make your own +/- that makes sense in terms of balance.
I like this. You should do a full-fledged version and post it in it's own thread. |
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1295
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Posted - 2013.08.29 11:39:00 -
[11] - Quote
TheEnd762 wrote:Doshneil Antaro wrote:My thought was that all classes should have +s and -s to every weapon.
Scout: + to sniper, nova knives No change to shotgun or smg - to everything else, with biggest - to av
Logi: + av, smg No change to MD (once minimum arming distance is fixed), or any other sidarm - AR, scrambler sniper, laser
Assualt: + AR, scrambler, laser No change to av, and most sidearms - MD, sniper
Heavy: +hmg , forge - to sniper, later, swarm
This was just shooting from the hip. I didn't cover all weapons or even make this list that great. This is just a basic guidelines, so don't go all crazy and bash one of these ideas, rather expand and make your own +/- that makes sense in terms of balance.
I like this. You should do a full-fledged version and post it in it's own thread.
That idea just restricts gameplay. |
Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
109
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Posted - 2013.08.29 11:58:00 -
[12] - Quote
Greasepalms wrote:Fizzer94 wrote:Nope. Logi suits are fine. They can't kill as fast as an assault, but can take a bigger beating, seems balanced to me. The only one that was OP got nerfed anyway. They are balanced. How come they don't kill as fast? The only logistics suit with a lower number of highslots compared to its assault counterpart is the Logi Mk.0 (4 slots, compared to the Assault's Mk.0's 5 slots). Every other logi has an equal or higher (cal lolgi) number of high slots, thus allowing them to stack more dmg mods. Furthermore, you still have an across-the-board upgraded number of low slots to fit those pg upgrades and armor plates. more damage, more health, more equipment and better racial bonuses.
Assaults still moves faster and strafes faster, they still have base eHP and are more versatile when it comes to Combat. Also anyone with a sidearm can kill faster than one without simply combine Shield Armor bonusses smart and you will wreck havak apart from beeing able to shott when you oponent needs to reload...
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Smooth Assassin
Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation
95
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Posted - 2013.08.29 12:23:00 -
[13] - Quote
Logi's are deffinetly stronger than assault. So many HP and damage mods |
Gh0st C0de
Spirit Collective
13
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Posted - 2013.08.29 12:32:00 -
[14] - Quote
Doshneil Antaro wrote:My thought was that all classes should have +s and -s to every weapon.
Scout: + to sniper, nova knives No change to shotgun or smg - to everything else, with biggest - to av
Logi: + av, smg No change to MD (once minimum arming distance is fixed), or any other sidarm - AR, scrambler sniper, laser
Assualt: + AR, scrambler, laser No change to av, and most sidearms - MD, sniper
Heavy: +hmg , forge - to sniper, later, swarm
This was just shooting from the hip. I didn't cover all weapons or even make this list that great. This is just a basic guidelines, so don't go all crazy and bash one of these ideas, rather expand and make your own +/- that makes sense in terms of balance.
In my opinion this would greatly hamper diversity in the game. I am a scout that primarily uses scrambler pistols and takes out a sniper rifle when the opportunity arises. This example would effectively give me no incentive to use the primary weapons I enjoy, instead making me fall back on my sniper rifle or take up nova knives to maximize my potential. I don't think anything that limits fitting diversity to that degree would be fun. Even if all of my favored weapons were scout + I'm sure there are people out there who would have a fitting that is harmed by the +/- idea. No matter what, someone gets shafted, and their incentive for creative fitting ideas is taken away. You'd be rewarded for staying inside the box. |
Coleman Gray
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
609
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Posted - 2013.08.29 14:40:00 -
[15] - Quote
well the Logi vehicles suffer turret effieciency to soo |
Cosgar
ParagonX
4594
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Posted - 2013.08.29 17:19:00 -
[16] - Quote
Are we really doing this again? If you can't kill a slower medium suit that doesn't have a sidearm in a team based game, I think the issue is on you. Except for the Amarr possibly needing another buff, the logi suits are fine. Stop looking for free kills in an FPS. |
Al the destroyer
The Phoenix Federation
11
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Posted - 2013.08.29 17:49:00 -
[17] - Quote
Let's just have the game be all assaults with ARs and everybody has the same HP and damage then the game would be fun right?Work on your teamwork and strategy you will be better off!! |
Pseudonym2
The Pyramid Order
4
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Posted - 2013.08.29 17:53:00 -
[18] - Quote
As a logi, I really don't see the point. Do you really want to nerf the people that keep you alive and run through enemy fire to revive you when you're down? We're slow, we get no sidearm, and we're often forced to place ourselves in the highest risk situations. You can't nerf an entire role just based off the potential for a few people to make a glass cannon build out of it, which seems to be what you're trying to weed out. Anyone who tries to do this will have ridiculously low HP (reps don't really matter if you have no armour). This effectively places them in a sniper role, or makes it incredibly quick to dispatch them in close combat. Either way, I don't see a particular problem.
If you want to reduce my damage fine, but I'll also take a reduction to sniper and assault rifle and grenade fire to account for my increased risk, a reduction to vehicle impact damage to account for my slowness and the requirement for me to run into the open field, and better equipment selection so I don't have to stand around like a fool for 10 seconds (it's actually a pretty long time in combat) to pull out the tool I need. |
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers EoN.
1921
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Posted - 2013.08.29 18:19:00 -
[19] - Quote
Sarducar Kahn wrote:I think they should loose their module slots. The problem is that they have tons of mods and the CPU/PG to fit them any way they like. Limit their slots to limit their options. A decent tank can be given with the suit so they are more survivable.
I would be fine with this as long as we got similar base hp to the assault suit. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
4595
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Posted - 2013.08.29 19:00:00 -
[20] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:Sarducar Kahn wrote:I think they should loose their module slots. The problem is that they have tons of mods and the CPU/PG to fit them any way they like. Limit their slots to limit their options. A decent tank can be given with the suit so they are more survivable. I would be fine with this as long as we got similar base hp to the assault suit. I love how people assume that the only modules available are shields, armor and damage mods. No deal. |
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Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention
1659
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Posted - 2013.08.29 20:08:00 -
[21] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:Nope. Logi suits are fine. They can't kill as fast as an assault, but can take a bigger beating, seems balanced to me. The only one that was OP got nerfed anyway. They are balanced. ^This
If anyone would care to argue this point please feel free to provide contrasting fittings within the same race Logi and Assault including the SP and ISK costs needed to field that fit and making sure that before specializing the Logi fit makes all efforts to at least meet the base stats of the Assault fit. Oh and since we're talking about suits here don't bother including the racial or role skills because if those are a problem those are what would need changed not the base suit configuration.
Cheers, Cross |
Bettie Boop 2100190003
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
109
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Posted - 2013.08.30 06:31:00 -
[22] - Quote
So does that mean assaults and scouts should get -50% effectiveness to the equipment they use?
Your killers so you don't need equipment! 1/2 of the ammo supplied from hives, +50% spawn in time on uplinks? |
Pseudonym2
The Pyramid Order
7
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Posted - 2013.08.30 06:44:00 -
[23] - Quote
Coleman Gray wrote:well the Logi vehicles suffer turret effieciency to soo
Oddly, my logi dropsuit doesn't instantly kill anything it touches, outrun weapons fire, or have enough resistance and reps to be virtually immortal. Please tell me you're not trying to say the logistics LAV has any type of "nerf" on it. |
Seymor Krelborn
DUST University Ivy League
681
|
Posted - 2013.08.30 07:06:00 -
[24] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:Want to balance logistics? Give us more points for doing logistical things...
Killing things seems to be effective in terms of earning wp, so we do it because that's what earns more. If we got more points for hacking, reviving, repairing, giving ammo, etc...we'd do more of that instead of using our main weapon all the time.
I think it was a stupid idea for CCP to give logistics less health and more slots...because that means we need to use more of those slots for staying alive than we do modules that help our class. It also means sacrificing cpu/pg allocated to our equipment just to compete. So instead, logistics should have more base health, but less slots. Either that, or we should have INSANE armor repair and shield recharge.
Why do I say repair/recharge? I don't know much about EVE, but whenever I see one of those logistics ships, they're always getting hit with missiles and explosives that take huge chunks out of their small amount of health, but they're able to recharge it rapidly. So basically in order to kill a logistics, you have kill them in one go quickly or else they'll just recharge and their buddy they were healing will destroy you.
all of this is a bad idea...logis can do their job fine and make good wp doing it.
the real problem is equipment slots, period. they need to be removed on every suit, and instead have equipment fit in a high or low slot... its the 2-4 equipment slots over every other suits 1 or 0 that makes logi suits OP....I know I am a combat logi, REs and links or a repper....I have no problem going toe to toe with any class, and with 3 equip slots I have a versatility no other suit has....the advantage to using one type of suit over another should come solely from bonuses to the suit, not one type of suit having a huge slot advantage. |
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