Pages: 1 [2] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
gargantuise aaron
Sanguine Knights
111
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 13:35:00 -
[31] - Quote
Its actually a bit more than 30 due go efficiency bonus, and you be neggating so much damage ypu wouldn't need health 37 dps is now 7 dps and when they reload you've already gained 60+ healthy back |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1214
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 13:40:00 -
[32] - Quote
gargantuise aaron wrote:Its actually a bit more than 30 due go efficiency bonus, and you be neggating so much damage ypu wouldn't need health 37 dps is now 7 dps and when they reload you've already gained 60+ healthy back
No that is with efficacy bonuses, unless your thinking of using 4 repairers in 4 low slots but that would cap out your PG, the max that can be used without ruining your CPU/PG is 2 for Assault and 3 for logistics. Also no gun does 37 DPS all guns do upwards of 400+ DPS or have very high damage per shot. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1214
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 13:41:00 -
[33] - Quote
DB post |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1221
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 17:12:00 -
[34] - Quote
Bump |
Arc-08
Horizons' Edge Orion Empire
40
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 18:04:00 -
[35] - Quote
i dunno. i really like this idea, but some of those numbers are still a little high. i don't think any of the shield based suits (exept for logi) should get more than 2 armor repair a second, and maybe even the logi no more than 5. because they already have shields that regen, and armor is just a backup
also even some of the ones for the gallente suits where pretty high, and need to be lowered just a tad.
oh and CCP already beat you to this, i don't know if you noticed but Minmatar Assault already has 1 HP/S armor repair on it XD i love me ma 1 hp/s, it has never saved my lilfe once... but it does allow me to go hide in a building alone and contemplate my life while my 135 armor slowly slowly regains from the 10 that it was at. then in 2-3 minutes i'm good to get back into the battle for a couple of seconds! |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1221
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 18:15:00 -
[36] - Quote
Arc-08 wrote:i dunno. i really like this idea, but some of those numbers are still a little high. i don't think any of the shield based suits (exept for logi) should get more than 2 armor repair a second, and maybe even the logi no more than 5. because they already have shields that regen, and armor is just a backup
also even some of the ones for the gallente suits where pretty high, and need to be lowered just a tad.
oh and CCP already beat you to this, i don't know if you noticed but Minmatar Assault already has 1 HP/S armor repair on it XD i love me ma 1 hp/s, it has never saved my lilfe once... but it does allow me to go hide in a building alone and contemplate my life while my 135 armor slowly slowly regains from the 10 that it was at. then in 2-3 minutes i'm good to get back into the battle for a couple of seconds!
Well the Minmatar is shield based but its shield repair is low, so that's why it has a higher repair although the repair only exceeds the Caldari Assault and Logistics by 2. As for the Gallente the repair is high but not higher than what a shield suit can repair, for example a shield suit can repair upwards of 1500-1700 HP in 60 seconds while an armor suit with this bonus upwards of 400-600 in 60 seconds. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1223
|
Posted - 2013.08.25 12:08:00 -
[37] - Quote
Bewmp |
Galvan Nized
Deep Space Republic Top Men.
220
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 09:43:00 -
[38] - Quote
This gets a no from me.
First off, dual tanking is its own beast and is easy for Armor AND shields if your talking about true dual tanking and not the use of a single mod. Remove Ferros if you want to they do nothing for armor tankers.
Second, the repair rates for both are very comparable. Armor will have the advantage in short 15 secs or less fights due to the shield delay. You assuming 60 secs is the fault of your argument as no firefight lasts 60 seconds. If your talking 1v1 then one of you is dead by this point. Shields will have the advantage in between skirmishes until armor whips out the triage hives or rep tool where they then have the advantage.
One thing you must remember is that armor tankers have their shields up front acting as buffer resistance and quick regen. It may only be your base shields but 100hp+ will help a lot in short fights (which most fights are). Shields have no passive armor regen unless logi and get little resistance buffer from it.
There is no big resistance difference between shields and armor...seriously none. If you think explosive weapons are so powerful (they are supposed to be 120% to armor) then imagine shields facing a laser (120% to shields) which do similar damage but have about 5x the range. There are more viable lasers then there is viable explosive weapons.
Gal Logis will be more powerful than Cal Logis just from the bonus as there rep rate will be 17.5 vs Cal 20 assuming 2 reppers. If you want passive armor regen go Logi. Don't bring that into the other suits. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1235
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 10:22:00 -
[39] - Quote
Galvan Nized wrote:This gets a no from me.
First off, dual tanking is its own beast and is easy for Armor AND shields if your talking about true dual tanking and not the use of a single mod. Remove Ferros if you want to they do nothing for armor tankers.
Second, the repair rates for both are very comparable. Armor will have the advantage in short 15 secs or less fights due to the shield delay. You assuming 60 secs is the fault of your argument as no firefight lasts 60 seconds. If your talking 1v1 then one of you is dead by this point. Shields will have the advantage in between skirmishes until armor whips out the triage hives or rep tool where they then have the advantage.
One thing you must remember is that armor tankers have their shields up front acting as buffer resistance and quick regen. It may only be your base shields but 100hp+ will help a lot in short fights (which most fights are). Shields have no passive armor regen unless logi and get little resistance buffer from it.
There is no big resistance difference between shields and armor...seriously none. If you think explosive weapons are so powerful (they are supposed to be 120% to armor) then imagine shields facing a laser (120% to shields) which do similar damage but have about 5x the range. There are more viable lasers then there is viable explosive weapons.
Gal Logis will be more powerful than Cal Logis just from the bonus as there rep rate will be 17.5 vs Cal 20 assuming 2 reppers. If you want passive armor regen go Logi. Don't bring that into the other suits.
Actually armor suits cant dual tank effectively because of their low shield repair and overall necessity of high armor. In a short 15 second fight assuming its a Gallente assault vs a Caldari assault in repair a Gallente would repair 120 armor HP while a Caldari would repair 312.5 shields.
And shields are more resistant to damage, there are 33% more weapons that kill armor vs shields, they also get a 60% damage reduction from explosive weapons (a caldari can't be one shotted by core locus grenades) then you have the faster soeed which has some small damage mitigation by the user and you have the ability to repair your entire buffer of HP in 20 seconds. The only weapon that can actually hurt shields is a charged SCR but those are rarely used, same with lasers in comparison to all of the weapons used to kill armor, mass drivers, grenades, sniper rifles, HMG, SMG.
Actually there would be no difference between a Cal Logi vs a Gal Logi, except the Caldari logistics will have a lower repair to his dual tank which like you said at the beginning of your post is a beast of its own. Also I am a Logi, a Gallente logistics and I went logi because it is impossible to have a proper armor tank without a passive regen, and even then the 5 HP/s is way to low to properly tank. |
OZAROW
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
426
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 11:13:00 -
[40] - Quote
Bump |
|
Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
103
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 11:35:00 -
[41] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:Passive Armor Rep is BAD.
It makes the usage of Armor Reps obsolete.
Why Skill into Armor reps when you don't need them?
To get a faster recharge, at the cost of 150 HP?
They'd be like Shield Rechargers. Sure probably SOMEONE uses them, but they are useless due to the fact that shields recharge naturally.
Sure, SOMEONE might use them after they implement this, but why? You can get WAY more Buffer, by using those slots for Plates, and you still recharge!
-1. Making a type of mods completely pointless is bad design. Point in case, Rechargers. The Reps are a part of the Armor Tanking lifestyle. If the 1.5 Penalty is introduced, which I hope it is, then Shield and Armor Tanks will need the same amount of Skills to be fully effective. Tada.
EDIT- Or, if you do this, Make Plates give similar HP bonuses to extenders.
By this logic the passive shield regen needs to go as it makes two modules useless . And you know theres is still the movement penalty on plates this alone would justify the HP advantage of plates in some way... |
Vespasian Andendare
Subsonic Synthesis Alpha Wolf Pack
162
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 15:24:00 -
[42] - Quote
No. Time to realize that there will be differences with armor/shield tanking, and regen is one of them. If you're sad your armor is being depleted on your shield suit, there are nanohives that will fix that problem for you. The fact that you realize these exist, but state that their under-utilization is cause for an across-the-board buff for passive armor regen, hurts your argument.
Given that there are solutions for a depleted armor amount--namely armor rep nanohives and Logi mercs--there doesn't need to be a buff so much as everyone needs to realize and use the tools at their disposal. This is a team game, and teams of people should think about coordinating their actions so that their team is stronger overall. If one more merc has to step up with a repair tool, then so be it. Problem solved.
Another thing to realize is that there's going to be fitting choices. Do I have more buffer? More repair? Faster shield regen? More shields? Etc. Some of those fitting choices are going to mean that you can't have everything you want. If you want to repair your armor, use the module for that (or, of course, the aforementioned hive/Logi). "But I want to use that lowslot for an energizer!" Well, then you don't have armor repair. That's the way fitting choices work.
If any buffs are needed, I would submit that the actual armor repair amounts provided by the modules themselves could use a slight bump, but only because armor repair---which happens regardless of in-combat or out--is supposed to be an "over-the-course-of-the-fight" type of tank. Meaning, shield is about buffer (surviving long enough in combat using speed/raw shield amount to kill before being killed) and armor is about tanking sustained damage while killing your opponent. At least that's what their regen/module active time/etc. indicate. However, with the armor plate buff incoming, it would seem that CCP has in mind that an armor buffer *could* be larger than a shield buffer, albeit with a speed penalty, but of course it would not regen at that point. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
1247
|
Posted - 2013.08.26 21:00:00 -
[43] - Quote
Vespasian Andendare wrote:No. Time to realize that there will be differences with armor/shield tanking, and regen is one of them. If you're sad your armor is being depleted on your shield suit, there are nanohives that will fix that problem for you. The fact that you realize these exist, but state that their under-utilization is cause for an across-the-board buff for passive armor regen, hurts your argument.
Given that there are solutions for a depleted armor amount--namely armor rep nanohives and Logi mercs--there doesn't need to be a buff so much as everyone needs to realize and use the tools at their disposal. This is a team game, and teams of people should think about coordinating their actions so that their team is stronger overall. If one more merc has to step up with a repair tool, then so be it. Problem solved.
Another thing to realize is that there's going to be fitting choices. Do I have more buffer? More repair? Faster shield regen? More shields? Etc. Some of those fitting choices are going to mean that you can't have everything you want. If you want to repair your armor, use the module for that (or, of course, the aforementioned hive/Logi). "But I want to use that lowslot for an energizer!" Well, then you don't have armor repair. That's the way fitting choices work.
If any buffs are needed, I would submit that the actual armor repair amounts provided by the modules themselves could use a slight bump, but only because armor repair---which happens regardless of in-combat or out--is supposed to be an "over-the-course-of-the-fight" type of tank. Meaning, shield is about buffer (surviving long enough in combat using speed/raw shield amount to kill before being killed) and armor is about tanking sustained damage while killing your opponent. At least that's what their regen/module active time/etc. indicate. However, with the armor plate buff incoming, it would seem that CCP has in mind that an armor buffer *could* be larger than a shield buffer, albeit with a speed penalty, but of course it would not regen at that point.
What I am suggesting does not make armor the same as shields, shields would still repair way faster than armor. All I am asking is for armor suits to at least have the choice of going all buffer vs small buffer high rep. You might think well go all buffer and get a Logibro but how many logibros do you see constantly repairing, or providing any triage support aside from reviving? Aside from myself every once in a while it is very rare, and that is because it is more useful to provide support fire/kills than actual triage support. You could say buff repairers but as long as they continue to take a gun off the field or not provide a massive repair they will always be rather useless, hell many corps say not to use repair tools and injectors in PC, and triage hives die extremely fast.
On the fitting choices if thats the case why not remove the passive repair for shields then? Shields get everything, they get speed, decent buffer, passive repair and the highest repair, and the most utility.
Honestly the armor buff brings shields and armor to about the same overall damage resistance, shields are about 25-30% more resistant to damage than armor and a pure armor suit can get around 750 armor HP while a pure shield suit can get around 550 shield HP, 550(1.3)=715, but keep in mind this 750 is only attainable by using complex armor plates on Gallente assault, but because we are forced to use a repair we still get lower HP and lower repair. This doesnt even account for sacrificing our tank for utility modules which are all in the low slots so by giving us a passive repair we also get the chance of using atleast one utility module without gimping our tank (something a shield suit doesnt need to worry about aside from damage modules). |
shaman oga
Nexus Balusa Horizon DARKSTAR ARMY
518
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 10:14:00 -
[44] - Quote
We need it |
Piraten Hovnoret
BIG BAD W0LVES
8
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 14:01:00 -
[45] - Quote
Armor don't need a bigger buff then it's getting in 1,4.
Shields are not OP in general Maybee jusT, MAYBEE the caldari shield is.
I don't se the problem realy. |
Spycrab Potato
Hold-Your-Fire
309
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 14:04:00 -
[46] - Quote
Gallente Proto Logis already get a 5 HP/S base repair. It's my favorite thing about my favorite suit! :D |
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |