DUST Search - Amazing how OP squads are.

Python Vex wrote:

Vallud Eadesso wrote:

I get what you're saying but I also don't agree. I think if you take the time to arrange a squad together you should be rewarded for playing a team based shooter... well as a team.

Its fun for no one, especially newbros, to run into a full squad of 6 who have carefully planned out their squad composition and are all running in Proto, but at the same time we can't punish those 6 who took the time to use some foresight and plan ahead. The EVE universe has always been one that rewards thinking, and punishes those who just go through the motions.

I imagine we should wait until the new player experience is implemented and see how it goes from there?

Having modes with no squads wouldn't punish those who like to roll as squads. It's pretty much win-win for both sides. Squads only go against other squads, and solo players only go against other solo players (although solo can join squad modes as a solo player if they desire).

It would only be a punishment if those squads liked steamrolling a team full of random unorganized players. In which case, they deserve to be punished for that. Let them play against other squads to test their talent and organization. It's about as HTFU as it gets.

Squads will no longer have easy-mode 95% of the time, they will actually have to fight for the win rather than have it handed to them.

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Python Vex Queefing Quafe Inc 1	Posted - 2013.08.23 09:42:00 - [1] - Quote I give you subject #1: Me with a squad (was not SL), we dominated. http://i.imgur.com/UgAeWnh.jpg And subject #2: Me and a team of randoms against a proto squad, we got our asses kicked. http://i.imgur.com/gjIU0wO.jpg Both cases were ambush matches. This game desperately needs modes with no squads. The above is not an isolated event. It is a common and consistent occurrence. Squads with players who are decently experienced vs a bunch of randoms = absolute slaughter. And for some strange reason, this seems to happen a lot more often than it should. Sometimes even placing multiple decent 6-man squads against a full team of nobody's. Add insult to injury are orbitals, especially when they can kill even if under major cover. What is the blast radius on those things, 200m? Seems like cover is futile for the most part.
jingle wingle Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 20	Posted - 2013.08.23 09:45:00 - [2] - Quote Organized players utilizing teamwork beat a bunch of randoms with no teamwork, planning, communication etc. News at 11
Aqil Aegivan The Southern Legion 183	Posted - 2013.08.23 09:45:00 - [3] - Quote Would you accept PVE and better matchmaking? Because I think they'll add more to the game and solve most of your problems.
Vallud Eadesso Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 281	Posted - 2013.08.23 09:45:00 - [4] - Quote Python Vex wrote: I give you subject #1: Me with a squad (was not SL), we dominated. http://i.imgur.com/UgAeWnh.jpg And subject #2: Me and a team of randoms against a proto squad, we got our asses kicked. http://i.imgur.com/gjIU0wO.jpg Both cases were ambush matches. This game desperately needs modes with no squads. The above is not an isolated event. It is a common and consistent occurrence. Squads with players who are decently experienced vs a bunch of randoms = absolute slaughter. And for some strange reason, this seems to happen a lot more often than it should. Sometimes even placing multiple decent 6-man squads against a full team of nobody's. Add insult to injury are orbitals, especially when they can kill even if under major cover. What is the blast radius on those things, 200m? Seems like cover is futile for the most part. I get what you're saying but I also don't agree. I think if you take the time to arrange a squad together you should be rewarded for playing a team based shooter... well as a team. Its fun for no one, especially newbros, to run into a full squad of 6 who have carefully planned out their squad composition and are all running in Proto, but at the same time we can't punish those 6 who took the time to use some foresight and plan ahead. The EVE universe has always been one that rewards thinking, and punishes those who just go through the motions. I imagine we should wait until the new player experience is implemented and see how it goes from there?
steadyhand amarr Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1153	Posted - 2013.08.23 09:47:00 - [5] - Quote remember people using team work is cheating and unfair. but lets wait and see how this new matchmaker works out, we disucessing things that allready have a fix in mind
Raymundo Kagestad V Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 22	Posted - 2013.08.23 09:51:00 - [6] - Quote Complaining about teams? Great, you'll have CCP Nerfing mics next. Cmdr Wang - Let's make it so their Mics freeze and their system crashes everytime they use comms! CCP Nullarbor - But we already have that! Wang - We do? IWS - Oh Wang! -Que Sitcom music-
Python Vex Queefing Quafe Inc 1	Posted - 2013.08.23 09:57:00 - [7] - Quote Vallud Eadesso wrote: I get what you're saying but I also don't agree. I think if you take the time to arrange a squad together you should be rewarded for playing a team based shooter... well as a team. Its fun for no one, especially newbros, to run into a full squad of 6 who have carefully planned out their squad composition and are all running in Proto, but at the same time we can't punish those 6 who took the time to use some foresight and plan ahead. The EVE universe has always been one that rewards thinking, and punishes those who just go through the motions. I imagine we should wait until the new player experience is implemented and see how it goes from there? Having modes with no squads wouldn't punish those who like to roll as squads. It's pretty much win-win for both sides. Squads only go against other squads, and solo players only go against other solo players (although solo can join squad modes as a solo player if they desire). It would only be a punishment if those squads liked steamrolling a team full of random unorganized players. In which case, they deserve to be punished for that. Let them play against other squads to test their talent and organization. It's about as HTFU as it gets. Squads will no longer have easy-mode 95% of the time, they will actually have to fight for the win rather than have it handed to them.
kagreen Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 3	Posted - 2013.08.23 10:04:00 - [8] - Quote The well organized teams deserve to stomp casual players repeatedly. Your only place in DUST as a casual player is to be stomped.
demonkiller 12 Seraphim Auxiliaries 119	Posted - 2013.08.23 10:05:00 - [9] - Quote Python Vex wrote: I give you subject #1: Me with a squad (was not SL), we dominated. http://i.imgur.com/UgAeWnh.jpg And subject #2: Me and a team of randoms against a proto squad, we got our asses kicked. http://i.imgur.com/gjIU0wO.jpg Both cases were ambush matches. This game desperately needs modes with no squads. The above is not an isolated event. It is a common and consistent occurrence. Squads with players who are decently experienced vs a bunch of randoms = absolute slaughter. And for some strange reason, this seems to happen a lot more often than it should. Sometimes even placing multiple decent 6-man squads against a full team of nobody's. Add insult to injury are orbitals, especially when they can kill even if under major cover. What is the blast radius on those things, 200m? Seems like cover is futile for the most part. this is a team game, if you are not in a squad you deserve to lose - play solo at your own risk Also almost every game my squad is against another squad- so your stats are pretty random
Raymundo Kagestad V Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 22	Posted - 2013.08.23 10:05:00 - [10] - Quote Python Vex wrote: Vallud Eadesso wrote: I get what you're saying but I also don't agree. I think if you take the time to arrange a squad together you should be rewarded for playing a team based shooter... well as a team. Its fun for no one, especially newbros, to run into a full squad of 6 who have carefully planned out their squad composition and are all running in Proto, but at the same time we can't punish those 6 who took the time to use some foresight and plan ahead. The EVE universe has always been one that rewards thinking, and punishes those who just go through the motions. I imagine we should wait until the new player experience is implemented and see how it goes from there? Having modes with no squads wouldn't punish those who like to roll as squads. It's pretty much win-win for both sides. Squads only go against other squads, and solo players only go against other solo players (although solo can join squad modes as a solo player if they desire). It would only be a punishment if those squads liked steamrolling a team full of random unorganized players. In which case, they deserve to be punished for that. Let them play against other squads to test their talent and organization. It's about as HTFU as it gets. Squads will no longer have easy-mode 95% of the time, they will actually have to fight for the win rather than have it handed to them. Population and playlist incompatibilities on the horizon. You need more people for it, or one playlist will be full of nothing but 4 v 4's due to a low game population. Remember when Ambush and Ambush OMS were two different things?

Viktor Zokas 187. 271	Posted - 2013.08.23 10:06:00 - [11] - Quote Python Vex wrote: I give you subject #1: Me with a squad (was not SL), we dominated. http://i.imgur.com/UgAeWnh.jpg And subject #2: Me and a team of randoms against a proto squad, we got our asses kicked. http://i.imgur.com/gjIU0wO.jpg Both cases were ambush matches. This game desperately needs modes with no squads. The above is not an isolated event. It is a common and consistent occurrence. Squads with players who are decently experienced vs a bunch of randoms = absolute slaughter. And for some strange reason, this seems to happen a lot more often than it should. Sometimes even placing multiple decent 6-man squads against a full team of nobody's. Add insult to injury are orbitals, especially when they can kill even if under major cover. What is the blast radius on those things, 200m? Seems like cover is futile for the most part. No it doesn't need any type of game mode. It needs a better match making system that matches a set amount of people in a squad against another team with a set amount of people in a squad.
Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 546	Posted - 2013.08.23 10:09:00 - [12] - Quote 6 > 1 ? Oh, do tell...
THE TRAINSPOTTER ROMANIA Renegades C0VEN 193	Posted - 2013.08.23 10:10:00 - [13] - Quote nerf squads , just another day/nerf in dust514
Henry FitzEmpress Deepspace Digital 37	Posted - 2013.08.23 10:14:00 - [14] - Quote LFSquad
Repe Susi Rautaleijona Top Men. 591	Posted - 2013.08.23 10:15:00 - [15] - Quote One must remember that as a new player, you really don't have a clue about squads and you go solo for a long time, without squad, without corporation. In light of that, there really ought to be squadless game-mode. Oh yes and the matchmaking... I cannot understand how in the hell the game throws 2 squads (of different corporations) on the same side against all-16-team randoms without corporation.
Shion Typhon Intara Direct Action Caldari State 231	Posted - 2013.08.23 10:15:00 - [16] - Quote Vallud Eadesso wrote: I get what you're saying but I also don't agree. I think if you take the time to arrange a squad together you should be rewarded for playing a team based shooter... well as a team. Its fun for no one, especially newbros, to run into a full squad of 6 who have carefully planned out their squad composition and are all running in Proto, but at the same time we can't punish those 6 who took the time to use some foresight and plan ahead. They should be rewarded with the chance to pit their skills in a fun, even fight against a similarly prepared squad whereby their victory will feel like it was worth it. Not rewarded with the opportunity to redline some newbs and wait for the camp, sorry match, to end.
Python Vex Queefing Quafe Inc 2	Posted - 2013.08.23 10:38:00 - [17] - Quote demonkiller 12 wrote: Python Vex wrote: I give you subject #1: Me with a squad (was not SL), we dominated. http://i.imgur.com/UgAeWnh.jpg And subject #2: Me and a team of randoms against a proto squad, we got our asses kicked. http://i.imgur.com/gjIU0wO.jpg Both cases were ambush matches. This game desperately needs modes with no squads. The above is not an isolated event. It is a common and consistent occurrence. Squads with players who are decently experienced vs a bunch of randoms = absolute slaughter. And for some strange reason, this seems to happen a lot more often than it should. Sometimes even placing multiple decent 6-man squads against a full team of nobody's. Add insult to injury are orbitals, especially when they can kill even if under major cover. What is the blast radius on those things, 200m? Seems like cover is futile for the most part. this is a team game, if you are not in a squad you deserve to lose - play solo at your own risk Also almost every game my squad is against another squad- so your stats are pretty random So this game should only be for no life try-hards who roll with proto squads and pubstromp random teams? Yeah, that's going to make a real successful game franchise Not everybody is a freak like you, some of us just want to play a game to have fun, rather than stress out about it. RL is good enough at doing that. We should have the option to play without having to deal with the try-hard freaks of this game rolling as a 6-man proto death squad. You want to be a try-hard at the game, fine, play PC. But pub matches need to be free of your kind unless we specifically choose to go against try-hard squads with our own try-hard squad.
Vallud Eadesso Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 282	Posted - 2013.08.23 10:55:00 - [18] - Quote Shion Typhon wrote: Vallud Eadesso wrote: I get what you're saying but I also don't agree. I think if you take the time to arrange a squad together you should be rewarded for playing a team based shooter... well as a team. Its fun for no one, especially newbros, to run into a full squad of 6 who have carefully planned out their squad composition and are all running in Proto, but at the same time we can't punish those 6 who took the time to use some foresight and plan ahead. They should be rewarded with the chance to pit their skills in a fun, even fight against a similarly prepared squad whereby their victory will feel like it was worth it. Not rewarded with the opportunity to redline some newbs and wait for the camp, sorry match, to end. And this is why I said wait for the revamp coming in a patch soon. This patch will also include matchmaking.
Sgt Pseudo Nexus Marines 16	Posted - 2013.08.23 11:08:00 - [19] - Quote Raymundo Kagestad V wrote: Complaining about teams? Great, you'll have CCP Nerfing mics next. Cmdr Wang - Let's make it so their Mics freeze and their system crashes everytime they use comms! CCP Nullarbor - But we already have that! Wang - We do? IWS - Oh Wang! -Que Sitcom music- Go away, Troll.
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES Eternal Syndicate 658	Posted - 2013.08.23 11:13:00 - [20] - Quote I just love the op arrg teamwork is op better nerf it lo f@#king l massive face palm.

CrotchGrab 360 High-Damage 201	Posted - 2013.08.23 11:18:00 - [21] - Quote it's sad that not enough people play this game for matchmaking to work 100% of the time so people will always complain however there is NO EXCUSE for the game to put 2 squads against randoms. 1 squad should be on team A and the other squad should be on team B. You can't complain coming about 6 people or 4 people. That's just one group. I would only complain against 2 groups. Or sometimes 3 against me + 15 randoms...............
Beld Errmon Paladin Survey Force Amarr Empire 815	Posted - 2013.08.23 11:28:00 - [22] - Quote The OP has a point, the game changed over night when they were introduced, and it changed even more when they added 2 more slots to them, some ppl have fun working with others talking sh*t all night long and smoking bongs in each others ears for hours on end, others like to play solo and stand a chance of having some fun while doing it, the game can cater to both. But the average blobtard shakes in his boots at the idea of squads queuing against squads, how will they all leave battle for another if they'll face the same thing? we've all seen them do it. Hopefully if nothing else the new match maker won't add a squad to the battle, fill the other team with 7 randoms then add another 6 man squad to the first side, the amount of times I've seen this happen is amazing, deny it or try to down play the impact but 6man squad + 10 randoms vs 16 randoms nearly always sucks, sometimes so bad even the squad is bored.
7 Djin D.A.R.K Academy D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 2	Posted - 2013.08.23 11:39:00 - [23] - Quote Squad and team play is the purpose of this game! Two militia scrubs can easily take down a proto if they have halfway decent cover. 2 against 1 is dominate in this game and is why team play is most important. Hence a spec'd squad watching each others back's is how this game is supposed to be played. Using the chat to squad up is paramount to having a good time in this game. It works for casual play too. I mean seriously, if anyone wants to hit me up in game I am a team player and a try hard.
Canari Elphus Pro Hic Immortalis League of Infamy 346	Posted - 2013.08.23 12:21:00 - [24] - Quote In a game about banding together and building corporations so that you can gain control over sectors of space, people are complaining that others are grouping up? If you are solo and you are not one of the better players of the game then you have to use different tactics plain and simple. You should not be rolling with the 'herd' and should rely more on hit-and-run and picking off the stragglers. Being a solo tryhard is just asking to be stomped into the ground.
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL 129	Posted - 2013.08.23 12:32:00 - [25] - Quote I agree that there is a definite problem with the matchmaking system with regard to stacking multiple squads on one side against randoms. Maybe the warbarge mechanics could be reworked so that teams are only divided up after 32 players have been queued? That way there would be a better distribution taking into account the full squads already present. As it stands, it seems like players are added on a first come, first served basis, with the side with fewer players getting priority.
Canari Elphus Pro Hic Immortalis League of Infamy 346	Posted - 2013.08.23 12:34:00 - [26] - Quote Sana Rayya wrote: I agree that there is a definite problem with the matchmaking system with regard to stacking multiple squads on one side against randoms. Maybe the warbarge mechanics could be reworked so that teams are only divided up after 32 players have been queued? That way there would be a better distribution taking into account the full squads already present. As it stands, it seems like players are added on a first come, first served basis, with the side with fewer players getting priority. That I can agree with. It is much more fun (especially in Skirmish) when you go against another squad and it isnt a redline.
Flix Keptick Red Star. EoN. 44	Posted - 2013.08.23 12:38:00 - [27] - Quote NERF TEAMWORK CCP
Csikszent Mihalyi DUST University Ivy League 66	Posted - 2013.08.23 13:32:00 - [28] - Quote I know I shouldn't read these forums... I just feel sad reading a lot of these responses. I guess you are happy if you "dominate" and get your worthless ISK and SP so you can build "honour" by upgrading your virtual avatar. Whatever... What I care about isn't to win, but to have fun playing the game. And the truth is, that redlining isn't fun. When was the last time you redlined a team and thought "wow, what a deep and rewarding experience this is"? I can get frustrated if the odds are overwhelmingly against me, but what's even worse is if the odds are overwhelmingly in my favour. I do alright playing solo, and occasionally I even enjoy the challenge of facing a stomp (although I avoid Ambush now, that just gets ridiculous). But if I'm on the team that's doing the stomping, then there's nothing I can do to avoid being bored out of my mind. It gets so bad, that I have little to no interest to squad up or graduate from University because... what's the point? So I can play more mind-numbingly boring redline matches? No thanks. END RANT That said, this really has been discussed to death by now, and for now we can only hope that 1.4 will make a difference. I find it hard to believe that match making will work flawlessly, but at least it can't be worse than what it is now. In addition, if AFK gets fixed this will also help a bit (because squads usually don't AFK, it predominantly hits the teams which are already at a disadvantage from not having a squad in their midst). Also, frankly... The more I think about it, the more I believe that there don't need to be squads in Ambush. Ambush is a total mess as it is, and why do you need squads for a game mode that requires almost no strategy to begin with? But whatever, it's not worth fighting over if the majority of the players does not agree for some reason.
Taeryn Frost Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 70	Posted - 2013.08.23 13:59:00 - [29] - Quote For all the people complaining about squads...all I can say is hope the matchmaking works. I never run in a squad. Tried it, not my thing, but its daft to expect a war fighting game not to have organization. Even in no squad mode I still try to work with teammates, albeit through reading each other's actions. **** does not work well with blueberries but eh, I don't want to bother getting all serious on a mic. Squads can get rolled over by no squads, so the issue is really the pub stomping show a good squad can put on. So once again...matchmaking. Let's wait and see, shall we?
Oso Peresoso RisingSuns 631	Posted - 2013.08.23 14:02:00 - [30] - Quote Python Vex wrote: This game desperately needs modes with no squads. The above is not an isolated event. It is a common and consistent occurrence. Squads with players who are decently experienced vs a bunch of randoms = absolute slaughter. And for some strange reason, this seems to happen a lot more often than it should. Sometimes even placing multiple decent 6-man squads against a full team of nobody's. Add insult to injury are orbitals, especially when they can kill even if under major cover. What is the blast radius on those things, 200m? Seems like cover is futile for the most part. Frankly, I think the things you describe are spot-on perfect. Orbitals as well, I've often seen them turn the tide or seal the deal, and that's a good thing.



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