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1.4 is the death of the Heavy

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calvin b Molon Labe. League of Infamy 340	Posted - 2013.08.22 17:01:00 - [1] - Quote After some thought I realized the armor upgrades will not help the heavy. Why you ask, simple because everyone will be able to use them. Now think on this Cal Logi can now have over 600HP in Shields and hold your breath over 500 in Armor. You will need to add a CPU upgrade to fit it all. The Cal will be faster than the Heavy and can use a better weapon with longer distance. So if you think the Heavy has new life, think again. The proto sentinel has 4 low slots so does the Cal Logi and 5 high slots.Congratulations CCP you have officially killed the heavy.
Aero Yassavi PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 1291	Posted - 2013.08.22 17:04:00 - [2] - Quote They should have light armor plates and heavy armor plates similar to vehicles, where only heavy vehicles can viably fit the heavy armor plates while the rest use light plates.
low genius the sound of freedom Renegade Alliance 342	Posted - 2013.08.22 17:04:00 - [3] - Quote you need to think again. while the armour updates will help a little, the 25% spray reduction will bring it in line with the ar and smg.
calvin b Molon Labe. League of Infamy 340	Posted - 2013.08.22 17:05:00 - [4] - Quote I agree and I was wrong about the armor for logi, they will now have over 600 Armor. So I am mothballing my heavy as of today.
TheAmazing FlyingPig Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 2868	Posted - 2013.08.22 17:06:00 - [5] - Quote calvin b wrote: I agree and I was wrong about the armor for logi, they will now have over 600 Armor. So I am mothballing my heavy as of today. One less HMG / Forge on the field I'll have to contend with.
calvin b Molon Labe. League of Infamy 340	Posted - 2013.08.22 17:06:00 - [6] - Quote low genius wrote: you need to think again. while the armour updates will help a little, the 25% spray reduction will bring it in line with the ar and smg. Doesn't matter the AR has more range and the Duvolle will outgun the HMG every time. Until they fix the HMG the heavy is no longer viable.
N1ck Comeau Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 1113	Posted - 2013.08.22 17:08:00 - [7] - Quote Heavies will be now 50% faster.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. League of Infamy 941	Posted - 2013.08.22 17:09:00 - [8] - Quote calvin b wrote: After some thought I realized the armor upgrades will not help the heavy. Why you ask, simple because everyone will be able to use them. Now think on this Cal Logi can now have over 600HP in Shields and hold your breath over 500 in Armor. You will need to add a CPU upgrade to fit it all. The Cal will be faster than the Heavy and can use a better weapon with longer distance. So if you think the Heavy has new life, think again. The proto sentinel has 4 low slots so does the Cal Logi and 5 high slots.Congratulations CCP you have officially killed the heavy. If people are dual tanking the calogi that much they won't be able to move even with the reduction in movement penalty. The Calogi isn't as great as people make it out to be. If you are dual tanking you are screwing over your shields by ignoring the regulator bonus.
Mobius Wyvern Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 3235	Posted - 2013.08.22 17:10:00 - [9] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: calvin b wrote: After some thought I realized the armor upgrades will not help the heavy. Why you ask, simple because everyone will be able to use them. Now think on this Cal Logi can now have over 600HP in Shields and hold your breath over 500 in Armor. You will need to add a CPU upgrade to fit it all. The Cal will be faster than the Heavy and can use a better weapon with longer distance. So if you think the Heavy has new life, think again. The proto sentinel has 4 low slots so does the Cal Logi and 5 high slots.Congratulations CCP you have officially killed the heavy. If people are dual tanking the calogi that much they won't be able to move even with the reduction in movement penalty. The Calogi isn't as great as people make it out to be. If you are dual tanking you are screwing over your shields by ignoring the regulator bonus. They've been using Basic plates. Now they'll get more HP and less movement penalty from those plates. Plates need to come with some kind of penalty to shield tanking.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1739	Posted - 2013.08.22 17:11:00 - [10] - Quote calvin b wrote: After some thought I realized the armor upgrades will not help the heavy. Why you ask, simple because everyone will be able to use them. Now think on this Cal Logi can now have over 600HP in Shields and hold your breath over 500 in Armor. You will need to add a CPU upgrade to fit it all. The Cal will be faster than the Heavy and can use a better weapon with longer distance. So if you think the Heavy has new life, think again. The proto sentinel has 4 low slots so does the Cal Logi and 5 high slots.Congratulations CCP you have officially killed the heavy. I already theory crafted it out a little. You run out of PG trying to fit 5 shield extenders, even then you can't get 600 shields. you can fit 3 enhanced plates and 4 shield extenders and thats it if you want grenades, weapon, and a nanohive, it barely breaks 400 armor and 400 shields. Heavies will be monsters in 1.4 with unlocked aiming, a buffed HMG, and increased strafe speed.

Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. League of Infamy 941	Posted - 2013.08.22 17:12:00 - [11] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: calvin b wrote: After some thought I realized the armor upgrades will not help the heavy. Why you ask, simple because everyone will be able to use them. Now think on this Cal Logi can now have over 600HP in Shields and hold your breath over 500 in Armor. You will need to add a CPU upgrade to fit it all. The Cal will be faster than the Heavy and can use a better weapon with longer distance. So if you think the Heavy has new life, think again. The proto sentinel has 4 low slots so does the Cal Logi and 5 high slots.Congratulations CCP you have officially killed the heavy. If people are dual tanking the calogi that much they won't be able to move even with the reduction in movement penalty. The Calogi isn't as great as people make it out to be. If you are dual tanking you are screwing over your shields by ignoring the regulator bonus. They've been using Basic plates. Now they'll get more HP and less movement penalty from those plates. Plates need to come with some kind of penalty to shield tanking. I've run the calogi for a long time and I've never had a plate on there. Any movement penalty on that suit makes it slower than dirt. It has the stamina of an 800 pound fat person.
Chris F2112 A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 331	Posted - 2013.08.22 17:14:00 - [12] - Quote You do realize you could just put a duvolle on your heavy suit if you think it is that good... But there's a reason people don't.
Everything Dies Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 24	Posted - 2013.08.22 17:16:00 - [13] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: It has the stamina of an 800 pound fat person. I'd make a witty retort...but it takes too much effort to type all the keys.
calvin b Molon Labe. League of Infamy 340	Posted - 2013.08.22 17:20:00 - [14] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: calvin b wrote: After some thought I realized the armor upgrades will not help the heavy. Why you ask, simple because everyone will be able to use them. Now think on this Cal Logi can now have over 600HP in Shields and hold your breath over 500 in Armor. You will need to add a CPU upgrade to fit it all. The Cal will be faster than the Heavy and can use a better weapon with longer distance. So if you think the Heavy has new life, think again. The proto sentinel has 4 low slots so does the Cal Logi and 5 high slots.Congratulations CCP you have officially killed the heavy. I already theory crafted it out a little. You run out of PG trying to fit 5 shield extenders, even then you can't get 600 shields. you can fit 3 enhanced plates and 4 shield extenders and thats it if you want grenades, weapon, and a nanohive, it barely breaks 400 armor and 400 shields. Heavies will be monsters in 1.4 with unlocked aiming, a buffed HMG, and increased strafe speed. Right now I can have 5 Complex shield extenders and 3 Complex Armor with a duvolle and I'm just fine. Right now before update its just over 600 Shields and 492 Armor. I have my stats to 5 this allows me to do this. The Speed of the Logi is faster than a heavy. I am just saying like it said before in this thread we need light armor plates and Heavy armor plates. This would solve the issue.
calvin b Molon Labe. League of Infamy 340	Posted - 2013.08.22 17:21:00 - [15] - Quote Chris F2112 wrote: You do realize you could just put a duvolle on your heavy suit if you think it is that good... But there's a reason people don't. I cant run a nanohive or I would.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. League of Infamy 941	Posted - 2013.08.22 17:27:00 - [16] - Quote calvin b wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: calvin b wrote: After some thought I realized the armor upgrades will not help the heavy. Why you ask, simple because everyone will be able to use them. Now think on this Cal Logi can now have over 600HP in Shields and hold your breath over 500 in Armor. You will need to add a CPU upgrade to fit it all. The Cal will be faster than the Heavy and can use a better weapon with longer distance. So if you think the Heavy has new life, think again. The proto sentinel has 4 low slots so does the Cal Logi and 5 high slots.Congratulations CCP you have officially killed the heavy. I already theory crafted it out a little. You run out of PG trying to fit 5 shield extenders, even then you can't get 600 shields. you can fit 3 enhanced plates and 4 shield extenders and thats it if you want grenades, weapon, and a nanohive, it barely breaks 400 armor and 400 shields. Heavies will be monsters in 1.4 with unlocked aiming, a buffed HMG, and increased strafe speed. Right now I can have 5 Complex shield extenders and 3 Complex Armor with a duvolle and I'm just fine. Right now before update its just over 600 Shields and 492 Armor. I have my stats to 5 this allows me to do this. The Speed of the Logi is faster than a heavy. I am just saying like it said before in this thread we need light armor plates and Heavy armor plates. This would solve the issue. I agree with that the different types of plates for heavies, but despite the Calogi being as fast as a heavy it still sucks for that suit to be any slower. It would be like a heavy with a light weapon and no sidearm. I just don't think that suit built that way is nearly as effective as people think. SMB used to run around like that, since shifting to only shields he is tearing it up. Lots of people are skilling into biotics to get their heavies faster. If people shift to explosive damage due to this buff it might be even smarter for heavies to go this route. I personally think proto heavies should have a lot more HP than they do. They should scare the crap out of people. They should be a walking tank.
Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 537	Posted - 2013.08.22 17:40:00 - [17] - Quote > 800 base HP on Heavies < 300 base HP on Logis Heavies can use ANY weapon. It's not the armor buff, it's the movement penalty. Now I'll be able to run with Assaults. (With my stacked KinCat suit I should be running with Scouts) Hit detection fix + dispersion reduction = even more bullets making contact Don't be too surprised when you get mowed down by a "dead" class.
SILVERBACK 02 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 146	Posted - 2013.08.22 17:40:00 - [18] - Quote calvin b wrote: After some thought I realized the armor upgrades will not help the heavy. Why you ask, simple because everyone will be able to use them. Now think on this Cal Logi can now have over 600HP in Shields and hold your breath over 500 in Armor. You will need to add a CPU upgrade to fit it all. The Cal will be faster than the Heavy and can use a better weapon with longer distance. So if you think the Heavy has new life, think again. The proto sentinel has 4 low slots so does the Cal Logi and 5 high slots.Congratulations CCP you have officially killed the heavy. all i can say is... CALDARI HEAVY IN 1.5 nuff said.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1739	Posted - 2013.08.22 17:42:00 - [19] - Quote calvin b wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: calvin b wrote: After some thought I realized the armor upgrades will not help the heavy. Why you ask, simple because everyone will be able to use them. Now think on this Cal Logi can now have over 600HP in Shields and hold your breath over 500 in Armor. You will need to add a CPU upgrade to fit it all. The Cal will be faster than the Heavy and can use a better weapon with longer distance. So if you think the Heavy has new life, think again. The proto sentinel has 4 low slots so does the Cal Logi and 5 high slots.Congratulations CCP you have officially killed the heavy. I already theory crafted it out a little. You run out of PG trying to fit 5 shield extenders, even then you can't get 600 shields. you can fit 3 enhanced plates and 4 shield extenders and thats it if you want grenades, weapon, and a nanohive, it barely breaks 400 armor and 400 shields. Heavies will be monsters in 1.4 with unlocked aiming, a buffed HMG, and increased strafe speed. Right now I can have 5 Complex shield extenders and 3 Complex Armor with a duvolle and I'm just fine. Right now before update its just over 600 Shields and 492 Armor. I have my stats to 5 this allows me to do this. The Speed of the Logi is faster than a heavy. I am just saying like it said before in this thread we need light armor plates and Heavy armor plates. This would solve the issue. But that is all you run huh? No nades, no equipment... just tank mods and a light weapon?
Knight Soiaire Better Hide R Die 1944	Posted - 2013.08.22 17:43:00 - [20] - Quote I'm seriously starting to think that Heavies are finding anything to complain about, no matter how small. If anything 1.4 will be the death of the Scout. Everyone will be faster. Hit detection is fixed. Equalized Turn Speeds. Aim Assist. Death of the Heavy? Lol.

Dale Templar TCD ToXiCaTeD 356	Posted - 2013.08.22 17:45:00 - [21] - Quote I can fit 1000+ total EHP on a Caldari Assault right now...?
Aikuchi Tomaru Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 251	Posted - 2013.08.22 17:46:00 - [22] - Quote calvin b wrote: Now think on this Cal Logi can now have over 600HP No he can't. My Caldari Proto Logi has all shield skills maxed out and is completely fitted with Complex Shield Extenders and has 588 Shield HP. Nothing with over 600. So get your facts straight first before you want us to listen.
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 494	Posted - 2013.08.22 18:01:00 - [23] - Quote calvin b wrote: Doesn't matter the AR has more range and the Duvolle will outgun the HMG every time. Until they fix the HMG the heavy is no longer viable. The only way a Duvolle can "outgun" an HMG is if the Heavy is caught at long range or he sucks at aiming. The HMG has 30% DPS over ARs so if you have good aim, math says you win toe-to-toe or you suck. It's a short-range murder machine like it's always been. And it won't lose any relative power to ARs after the patch, because unlike ARs, it gets a damage bonus against armor. Tight maps = HMG, open maps = FG. Heavy has been just fine since 1.2 and it'll keep feeling fine through the next one. And 1.3 Made Heavy more powerful due to Forge Gun aiming fixes. I'm just getting bored playing with the same ol' guns and suits for 13 months... I'll be logging in for my daily bonus in 1.4 and logging right back out to play The Last of Us.
Chibi Andy Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 443	Posted - 2013.08.22 18:05:00 - [24] - Quote well people have said the heavies will die out for a very long time, sure we've hit the point of extinction but we've always survived and made a comeback. doubt this new update will finish us off for good yet
Knight Soiaire Better Hide R Die 1948	Posted - 2013.08.22 18:07:00 - [25] - Quote Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: calvin b wrote: Now think on this Cal Logi can now have over 600HP No he can't. My Caldari Proto Logi has all shield skills maxed out and is completely fitted with Complex Shield Extenders and has 588 Shield HP. Nothing with over 600. So get your facts straight first before you want us to listen. You have 4 Lows. You could well get over 600EHP.
RA Drahcir Psygod9 131	Posted - 2013.08.22 18:08:00 - [26] - Quote ARs have higher DPS, doesn't matter what the numbers are showing, you have to look at how they perform when applied. HMGs cone of fire is so spread out, and any rounds outside of center sight alignment are blanks doing no damage even if they are on target. If you dance just a little bit, an AR can outgun a HMG.
Lance 2ballzStrong SyNergy Gaming EoN. 3486	Posted - 2013.08.22 18:27:00 - [27] - Quote low genius wrote: you need to think again. while the armour updates will help a little, the 25% spray reduction will bring it in line with the ar and smg. that's recoil reduction... not bullet spread.
Lance 2ballzStrong SyNergy Gaming EoN. 3486	Posted - 2013.08.22 18:30:00 - [28] - Quote Disturbingly Bored wrote: calvin b wrote: Doesn't matter the AR has more range and the Duvolle will outgun the HMG every time. Until they fix the HMG the heavy is no longer viable. The only way a Duvolle can "outgun" an HMG is if the Heavy is caught at long range or he sucks at aiming. The HMG has 30% DPS over ARs so if you have good aim, math says you win toe-to-toe or you suck. It's a short-range murder machine like it's always been. And it won't lose any relative power to ARs after the patch, because unlike ARs, it gets a damage bonus against armor. Tight maps = HMG, open maps = FG. Heavy has been just fine since 1.2 and it'll keep feeling fine through the next one. And 1.3 Made Heavy more powerful due to Forge Gun aiming fixes. I'm just getting bored playing with the same ol' guns and suits for 13 months... I'll be logging in for my daily bonus in 1.4 and logging right back out to play The Last of Us. problem with your "math" is that it doesn't take into consideration the bullet spread of an HMG. Math shows if every bullet hits, and as every heavy knows, half your bullets spray around the target. In reality for a Duvolle to out DPS and HMG is not that hard to imagine.
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 494	Posted - 2013.08.22 18:34:00 - [29] - Quote RA Drahcir wrote: ARs have higher DPS, doesn't matter what the numbers are showing, you have to look at how they perform when applied. HMGs cone of fire is so spread out, and any rounds outside of center sight alignment are blanks doing no damage even if they are on target. If you dance just a little bit, an AR can outgun a HMG. That's all true enough. But to be frank, your assumption is that the HMG user is fighting the AR user the same way the AR user is fighting him. Put the HMG barrel up the AR user's arse and it mulches just fine. Make your target fill your entire firing reticule. You have to be a fat ninja to use the HMG well. If an AR user is firing the first bullets of the engagement, you break engagement and bait them to suitable ground, whether it's behind cover, over a drop, or playing merry-go-round around boxes. For some reason I can't fathom, even top-50-killboard players will always chase you around a corner. If you're on a more open map and you can get to higher ground, you should be Forge sniping instead. If you're on flat open ground as a Heavy, you're dead. There nothing you can do about it. So don't fight there. If you're fighting a player with more battle-awareness than you and you can't find a way to get him distracted, or you're fighting a well organized team that is focused on you at the moment, you were dead no matter what you're fielding.
SoTah Pawp Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 819	Posted - 2013.08.22 18:43:00 - [30] - Quote What a silly thread. Do you really think a little more armor and speed is going to change the fact if you go into the city I'm going to destroy you? You're thinking too situational. Far as I'm concerned it would take more then a full clip to bring me down after update - while my HMG can keep blasting. I am going to be a wall no one can pass.

Lightning Bolt2 DUST University Ivy League 110	Posted - 2013.08.22 18:52:00 - [31] - Quote low genius wrote: you need to think again. while the armour updates will help a little, the 25% spray reduction will bring it in line with the ar and smg. by what I read it's reduced kick! so it'll just be going up less.
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 494	Posted - 2013.08.22 18:57:00 - [32] - Quote Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: as every heavy knows, half your bullets spray around the target. Depends on the range. I know I'm never getting Chromosome back. The range update gave me a new supression trick, but supression doesn't kill, just changes your targets behavior. The HMG is for toe-to-toe mulching and has been that way for while. I know you have to know that, even if you don't like it. And if you start the engagement at that range, it'll beat the Duvolle reliably.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1740	Posted - 2013.08.22 18:59:00 - [33] - Quote Knight Soiaire wrote: Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: calvin b wrote: Now think on this Cal Logi can now have over 600HP No he can't. My Caldari Proto Logi has all shield skills maxed out and is completely fitted with Complex Shield Extenders and has 588 Shield HP. Nothing with over 600. So get your facts straight first before you want us to listen. You have 4 Lows. You could well get over 600EHP. 600 EHP is easy to fit on most any proto suit. Most cal logis are already over 600 EHP. I have 502 Shields and 163 armor on most of my fits, 4 extenders and 1 basic plate. Not that big of a stretch,
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1740	Posted - 2013.08.22 19:01:00 - [34] - Quote SoTah Pawp wrote: What a silly thread. Do you really think a little more armor and speed is going to change the fact if you go into the city I'm going to destroy you? You're thinking too situational. Far as I'm concerned it would take more then a full clip to bring me down after update - while my HMG can keep blasting. I am going to be a wall no one can pass. This is very true, in PC heavies are going to be scary as ****. Esp with core focused rep tools and triage nanohives around objectives, it'll be impossible to break. Unless you are using a mass driver of course.
Meeko Fent Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 690	Posted - 2013.08.22 19:18:00 - [35] - Quote calvin b wrote: After some thought I realized the armor upgrades will not help the heavy. Why you ask, simple because everyone will be able to use them. Now think on this Cal Logi can now have over 600HP in Shields and hold your breath over 500 in Armor. You will need to add a CPU upgrade to fit it all. The Cal will be faster than the Heavy and can use a better weapon with longer distance. So if you think the Heavy has new life, think again. The proto sentinel has 4 low slots so does the Cal Logi and 5 high slots.Congratulations CCP you have officially killed the heavy. Yes. All the suits can fit the Armor Plates. So can the Heavy. They can fit Just as many plates as a CalLogi. I Have the Exact same Setup with my STD Basic Frame Heavy Suit. 480 Shield, 560 Armor. They heavy has such a large boost in Base HP, that the Heavies will usually, always come out on top. They have 800 Base HP. The Med Frames have 300 Base HP. You need a ass ton of plates to just get near the base HP of a heavy. And the removal of suit turn restrictions will mean you can turn effectively and tear that Scout a new one with your HMG. 1.4= Saving of the Heavies, Murder of the Scouts.
Rusty Shallows Black Jackals 283	Posted - 2013.08.22 21:30:00 - [36] - Quote Knight Soiaire wrote: I'm seriously starting to think that Heavies are finding anything to complain about, no matter how small. If anything 1.4 will be the death of the Scout. Everyone will be faster. Hit detection is fixed. Equalized Turn Speeds. Aim Assist. Death of the Heavy? Lol. I can't understand why there is a political subset of Scouts that love to take pot-shots at Heavies. Even if someone says a empathetic statement you guys immediately jump them being general jerks. Turn speed was always a pointless nerf. A vicious screw-you to all Heavies with no bacon on the side. Scouts are going to have it roughest in 1.4 but that doesn't mean you need to take a poop on another class that has its own balancing problems. At least the Devs recognize Scouts have a problem so things will get better. However with the endless nerf brigade going after Heavies that class only stands to get worse.
CommanderBolt A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 197	Posted - 2013.08.22 21:35:00 - [37] - Quote Chris F2112 wrote: You do realize you could just put a duvolle on your heavy suit if you think it is that good... But there's a reason people don't. I used to do that a lot lol. I kinda always felt like the command suit was made for me haha. However I still think one of the normal heavy suits with a ar and sub-machinegun is ok. Especially for driving about in.
ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 378	Posted - 2013.08.22 21:35:00 - [38] - Quote Chibi Andy wrote: well people have said the heavies will die out for a very long time, sure we've hit the point of extinction but we've always survived and made a comeback. doubt this new update will finish us off for good yet They survived their own extinction? The **? He is the core gamer, the bastard child of the casual and hardcore gamer. He invests the former's effort and cries when he doesn't get the latter's results. CrotchGrab 360 wrote:** You're so philosophical. please adorn me with more pearls of wisdom.
Rusty Shallows Black Jackals 283	Posted - 2013.08.22 21:41:00 - [39] - Quote calvin b wrote: The proto sentinel has 4 low slots so does the Cal Logi and 5 high slots.Congratulations CCP you have officially killed the heavy. It would be nice if the solution would be to just add fitting slots with CPU/Grid. At that point we'd just end up with a new AR Slayer suit. The salvation of Heavies doesn't need to be our tank, it should be our weapons. The Forge Gun is mostly in a good place, its time to get the HMG there. In Eve Online Battleships use large weapons instead of cruiser medium because they get the job done. Dust should be the same way. Alternatively CCP could open up massive buffer tank on Heavies but it would need some kind of limit like the Heavy slot only using Heavy Weapons and/or maybe the loss of the sidearm slot if the tanking becomes epic. PS I'm not trying to put words in Calvin's mouth on this. The first line is personal speculation.
Himiko Kuronaga SyNergy Gaming EoN. 1307	Posted - 2013.08.22 21:46:00 - [40] - Quote low genius wrote: you need to think again. while the armour updates will help a little, the 25% spray reduction will bring it in line with the ar and smg. You need to think again, again. It's not a spray reduction, it's a recoil reduction. Spray reduction would be dispersion. Recoil is how much your aim rocks around when you've been firing for a while, and that can be dealt with via player compensation already. Dispersion is the only bonus that would actually help a skilled player, and it is not present. So OP is correct. This looks like a buff, but it's actually a nerf. If they had raised the armor values via percentage, it would be a buff.

Vespasian Andendare Subsonic Synthesis Alpha Wolf Pack 131	Posted - 2013.08.22 21:49:00 - [41] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: calvin b wrote: After some thought I realized the armor upgrades will not help the heavy. Why you ask, simple because everyone will be able to use them. Now think on this Cal Logi can now have over 600HP in Shields and hold your breath over 500 in Armor. You will need to add a CPU upgrade to fit it all. The Cal will be faster than the Heavy and can use a better weapon with longer distance. So if you think the Heavy has new life, think again. The proto sentinel has 4 low slots so does the Cal Logi and 5 high slots.Congratulations CCP you have officially killed the heavy. If people are dual tanking the calogi that much they won't be able to move even with the reduction in movement penalty. The Calogi isn't as great as people make it out to be. If you are dual tanking you are screwing over your shields by ignoring the regulator bonus. They've been using Basic plates. Now they'll get more HP and less movement penalty from those plates. Plates need to come with some kind of penalty to shield tanking. Plates already have a penalty to tanking. They slow you down. What should happen is shield extenders should penalize your hit box, making you easier to hit. This way, armor+shield tanking would be less attractive, since moving slow AND being easier to hit is pretty penalizing. Shields by themselves with larger hit boxes work because you can use the speed afforded by shields to mitigate some of the damage you'd receive due to the larger hit box. Similarly, an armor tank, though slower, will mitigate some damage due to the smaller hit box. Combine the two and you have a recipe for death, despite the raw HP gain. However, with shield tanking providing no downsides, there's no incentive to not dual tank. I know I run a dual tank on my logi, since staying alive is much more valuable than a damage mod would ever be.
Charlotte O'Dell 0uter.Heaven 1019	Posted - 2013.08.22 21:51:00 - [42] - Quote The omni-tanked callogi will rise again! Except this time I'll be able to put a damage mod or two on it ;) Or 500 armor and 300 shields but with a 45/sec recharge rate. Yay me!
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 3095	Posted - 2013.08.22 21:55:00 - [43] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: They should have light armor plates and heavy armor plates similar to vehicles, where only heavy vehicles can viably fit the heavy armor plates while the rest use light plates. You don't drive vehicles, do you? HAVs can only viably fit medium plates Dropships can only viably fit light plates LAVs can only viably fit resistance plates
I-Shayz-I Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 675	Posted - 2013.08.22 22:02:00 - [44] - Quote I'm a heavy and no it won't be the death of the heavy. It means that I can now use armor plates without having to deal with a huge movement penalty. It means that I'll have a ton more hp than most people, while still having a huge amount of firepower. Right now the main weakness of the heavy is that the more armor you have, the easier it is for you to be hit, and the faster you die. With the update, we can now aim our HMG faster, we can move faster (easier to dodge bullets), and we will have so much armor you'll need to use two full clips to take us out instead of one. Sure, other suits will have this too, but not to the extent of the heavy.
LT SHANKS Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 413	Posted - 2013.08.22 22:05:00 - [45] - Quote My Heavy seldom gets love from me these days, however, I will not judge the armor update until I have had at least two weeks to see how armor affects every other suit. In addition, the upcoming tweaks to the HMG should actually be something of worth. I am not going to keep my hopes high, but I will refuse to look at matters in any negative manner until the changes are implemented. I do miss playing my Heavy and as soon as 1.4 rolls around, I will immediately hop onto it, slap on my complex armor upgrades, and see where I can go from there, but for now, I will wait out the time on my MinLogi.
Lance 2ballzStrong SyNergy Gaming EoN. 3492	Posted - 2013.08.22 22:08:00 - [46] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: It means that I can now use armor plates without having to deal with a huge movement penalty. It means that I'll have a ton more hp than most people you realize everyone gets the same buff? So this "ton" more of armor is the same as it is now, just without the movement penalty...big deal. MD's are still FoTM, and core nades are still OP.
zzZaXxx The Exemplars Top Men. 202	Posted - 2013.08.22 22:18:00 - [47] - Quote Knight Soiaire wrote: I'm seriously starting to think that Heavies are finding anything to complain about, no matter how small. If anything 1.4 will be the death of the Scout. Everyone will be faster. Hit detection is fixed. Equalized Turn Speeds. Aim Assist. Death of the Heavy? Lol. It may be a rough month or so for scouts. Hopefully they'll get a balance pass in 1.5 or 1.6. As for heavies OP is mental. They'll be faster and have more hp. They'll turn faster and fire more accurately. If they see more armor that's good for their weapons. Heavies are fine. My advanced Cal logi gets nothing from these changes and is still UP.
Raymundo Kagestad V Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 20	Posted - 2013.08.22 22:22:00 - [48] - Quote I think I saw a post with this same name (Save the 1.4 part) On the release of 1.1 1.2 and 1.3 as well...
Knight Soiaire Better Hide R Die 1955	Posted - 2013.08.22 23:10:00 - [49] - Quote Rusty Shallows wrote: Knight Soiaire wrote: I'm seriously starting to think that Heavies are finding anything to complain about, no matter how small. If anything 1.4 will be the death of the Scout. Everyone will be faster. Hit detection is fixed. Equalized Turn Speeds. Aim Assist. Death of the Heavy? Lol. I can't understand why there is a political subset of Scouts that love to take pot-shots at Heavies. Even if someone says a empathetic statement you guys immediately jump them being general jerks. Turn speed was always a pointless nerf. A vicious screw-you to all Heavies with no bacon on the side. Scouts are going to have it roughest in 1.4 but that doesn't mean you need to take a poop on another class that has its own balancing problems. At least the Devs recognize Scouts have a problem so things will get better. However with the endless nerf brigade going after Heavies that class only stands to get worse. I'm not taking pot shots. I just find it funny, that every update, good or bad for Heavies, they still find reason to complain.
calvin b Molon Labe. League of Infamy 346	Posted - 2013.08.23 08:25:00 - [50] - Quote Aikuchi Tomaru wrote: calvin b wrote: Now think on this Cal Logi can now have over 600HP No he can't. My Caldari Proto Logi has all shield skills maxed out and is completely fitted with Complex Shield Extenders and has 588 Shield HP. Nothing with over 600. So get your facts straight first before you want us to listen. You know there is a bonus when you max out at 5.

Panther Alpha DarkWingsss 922	Posted - 2013.08.23 08:36:00 - [51] - Quote If only .... is more like the heavies are going to be reborn, not kill. A more "refine" role. I just love how you guys have panic attacks before you even try the "upcoming" changes.
jingle wingle Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 19	Posted - 2013.08.23 08:47:00 - [52] - Quote Yay hyperbole!
Kekklian Noobatronic Goonfeet Top Men. 311	Posted - 2013.08.23 08:51:00 - [53] - Quote The only real problem with 1.4 and heavies is that - despite the increased HP from plates - they refused to increase the Armor Repper amount at all. It takes a painfully long time for an armor rep to bring a Heavy back up to full, now it'll be even more time out of the fight. It's like CCP lives in this deluded little land where there's a 1:1 ratio of "People who Rep Heavies : Heavies". To be fair, it's not just heavies though. Any armor tanked suit that needs to fit a rep is going to be annoyed by the extra repair time. I did a breakdown on "Time to Full", and the numbers drastically favor shield tanking over armor tanking - we're talking by 13+ seconds for an armor tanked suit vs shield tanked suit. Increase Plate amount without repair amount, and that number easily goes up to 20 seconds wait OR MORE. 20 seconds is a long time to be ducked behind a building, while your shield counterparts have already recharged and re-engaged.
Drevenger DUST University Ivy League 22	Posted - 2013.08.23 08:56:00 - [54] - Quote Lol you just realised folks could spec into shield and armor at the same time? Blame it on the lack of Heavy races, I can't believe how easy you guys got lured into wearing the Amarr dress. It was a bad decision from CCP, its not supposed to be complicated, just two heavy races, even its just a blob with some cubes here and the, we'll call it CalHeavy, people wil be happy. Once the art is ready, do like the commando but to replace the blob suit.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Top Men. 1218	Posted - 2013.08.23 08:57:00 - [55] - Quote calvin b wrote: After some thought I realized the armor upgrades will not help the heavy. Why you ask, simple because everyone will be able to use them. Now think on this Cal Logi can now have over 600HP in Shields and hold your breath over 500 in Armor. You will need to add a CPU upgrade to fit it all. The Cal will be faster than the Heavy and can use a better weapon with longer distance. So if you think the Heavy has new life, think again. The proto sentinel has 4 low slots so does the Cal Logi and 5 high slots.Congratulations CCP you have officially killed the heavy. THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING! Shut up Chicken Little. The Heavy is dead when I goddamned well SAY it is dead.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Top Men. 1219	Posted - 2013.08.23 09:00:00 - [56] - Quote Kekklian Noobatronic wrote: The only real problem with 1.4 and heavies is that - despite the increased HP from plates - they refused to increase the Armor Repper amount at all. It takes a painfully long time for an armor rep to bring a Heavy back up to full, now it'll be even more time out of the fight. It's like CCP lives in this deluded little land where there's a 1:1 ratio of "People who Rep Heavies : Heavies". To be fair, it's not just heavies though. Any armor tanked suit that needs to fit a rep is going to be annoyed by the extra repair time. I did a breakdown on "Time to Full", and the numbers drastically favor shield tanking over armor tanking - we're talking by 13+ seconds for an armor tanked suit vs shield tanked suit. Increase Plate amount without repair amount, and that number easily goes up to 20 seconds wait OR MORE. 20 seconds is a long time to be ducked behind a building, while your shield counterparts have already recharged and re-engaged. You shitting me? Takes me two full minutes to go from 20% armor to full. One minute with no mods.
Kekklian Noobatronic Goonfeet Top Men. 311	Posted - 2013.08.23 09:07:00 - [57] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Kekklian Noobatronic wrote: The only real problem with 1.4 and heavies is that - despite the increased HP from plates - they refused to increase the Armor Repper amount at all. It takes a painfully long time for an armor rep to bring a Heavy back up to full, now it'll be even more time out of the fight. It's like CCP lives in this deluded little land where there's a 1:1 ratio of "People who Rep Heavies : Heavies". To be fair, it's not just heavies though. Any armor tanked suit that needs to fit a rep is going to be annoyed by the extra repair time. I did a breakdown on "Time to Full", and the numbers drastically favor shield tanking over armor tanking - we're talking by 13+ seconds for an armor tanked suit vs shield tanked suit. Increase Plate amount without repair amount, and that number easily goes up to 20 seconds wait OR MORE. 20 seconds is a long time to be ducked behind a building, while your shield counterparts have already recharged and re-engaged. You shitting me? Takes me two full minutes to go from 20% armor to full. One minute with no mods. Lol, you wearing 1 rep and multiple complex's then? To be fair, all I did was a flat comparison of 450 Shields / 150 Armor to 150 Shields / 450 Armor, with each taking an equal amount of damage(500 flat), and how long it took(included recharge timers) for them to get back in battle. If you're stacking crazy amounts of armor on to a heavy frame(I do too :P) then yea.. We take drastically longer to get back in the fight..
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 102	Posted - 2013.08.23 10:24:00 - [58] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: 1.4= Saving of the Heavies, Murder of the Scouts. My small tiny scout suits agrees with you on that one and still one or two months of waiting till my fragile suits gets any love if at all. Biut at least the heavies get some love its rather sad that they don't get new toys so I am happy that they get at least something apart from new stuff.


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