I see what point your bringing up, and it needs to be addressed.

Put Kin cats in Highs. Make Kin Cats also affect walk Speed (Not sure if the do that now...). Give Kin Cats enough of a bonus to eliminate the Plates penalty. Give Back the old Plates.

Make it so Shields NEED to fit Regulators to get anywhere decent Delay.

I Could still see maybe one or two Buals, but they would regen So Slow, and move so slow, that the only thing they would have going for them would be Monstrous HP compared to another Tanking Style.

This idea should be bury under all the clones that have died and then orbital just to be sure that it is truly dead.
And before you try to say that i am just a dual tanker trying to save his ehp i do not have a single armor plate.
One last thing why is it so bad to be a dual tanker.

It's the reason why medium frames can push to the same eHP as a heavy, and a scout feeling like he's taking on a wall that is not that much slower than him.

Dual tanking needs to be eliminated, so that medium frames aren't pushed above and beyond what they're supposed to be.

Put those damn penalties on shields.

Don't wait for 1.5, because with the reduced penalties on armor and increased HP, all the medium frames will now go bezerk with huge amounts of eHP, with no real downsides.


If you have the penalty on shields, that means a dual tanker has two sets of downsides, rather than one.
Making the suit, theoretically capable, a mess on the battlefield.


Edit:
For those that don't know, CCP is waiting for 1.5 before adding a penalty on shields.
The penalty is increased recharge delay for shield extenders.

So what about Amarr suits?

From what I can tell they are intended to dual tank. Do you envisage a change to this? Or perhaps a bonus to mitigate the penalties?

I think a better solution would be to buff the non-tank modules (apart from damage mods) to encourage their use. That way dual tanking just becomes another option instead of the obvious fit.

I like this that would force armor to have to use another skill :( so that would mean 3 skills for good armor tanking and 2 for good shield tanking.

This would kill Minmatar logis...

armor already better than shields over all...when u include an armor repper on ur suit...

ofcourse my playstyle is what makes armor suits better to me overall..

armor already better than shields over all...when u include an armor repper on ur suit...

ofcourse my playstyle is what makes armor suits better to me overall..

150 shields 305 armor on amlt suit..2 mlt armor reps armor plating....

and lots of skill...

i just dont have patience for running away and waiting for shields to recharge...

heavy shielding and little to no armo.. the second the shield goes..u die..

but with heavy armor and light shields i stand a much better chance in all my cqc fights for some reason...

Which are speed tanks not dual tanks. Also this doesn't change your current fitting at all, you can still use the same fitting that you wear now and get the same HP that you get now, the only difference is that you get bonuses to sticking to 1 type of tank style not just two.

Wouldn't it just be easier to add a basic suit level skill that personalizes shield and armor with their respective suits?

armor already better than shields over all...when u include an armor repper on ur suit...

ofcourse my playstyle is what makes armor suits better to me overall..

You didn't read the post if your asking this.

No matter how much CCP buffs armor or nerfs shields, until dual tanking is fixed there will never be balance. The way shield suits work (and the current armor and shield mechanics) shield suits always have more HP, better repair, and better speed than armor suits due to dual tanking and no matter how much armor is buffed it will stay this way forever, of course if you nerf shields then people will just use armor but then there would be no flavor to the game.

So I propose that stacking bonuses are applied for using one type of HP tank. The idea is simple, apply a 5%-10% for every module you stack of the same type but with a stacking penalty. Stacking 2 modules of a different type lowers the efficacy of both modules by half, and stacking 3+ modules of a different type negates the efficacy bonus of both module types. Amarr medium suits should not be affected by this mechanic, or change them into armor tanks with more low slots.

So lets say you wear 4 basic armor plates, each one having a 5% stacking efficacy bonus but with a stacking penalty to them. You would end up with 427.4 armor instead of 374.The same would apply to shield extenders with a 7.5% stacking efficacy, lets say you wear 4 complex shield extenders you would get 354.1 shield HP, instead of 290.4. Now lets say you want to dual tank and your in a Caldari suit, and you use 4 complex shield extenders and 2 plates you would get a 2.5% stacking bonus for both the shields and armor, if the suit uses 2 shield and 2 plates he still gets the 5%/7.5% stacking efficacy, if he adds 2 shields and 3 plates he gets the efficacy cut in half for both, and if he adds 3 shields and 3 armor he loses all efficacy bonuses. The same goes for any suit except medium Amarr suits which have a slot layout dedicated to dual tanking, which is really weird.

Pros to this idea:
>Award using to a specific tank
>Dual tanking would still be possible but less effective than sticking to 1 specific tank
>Let people branch of into modules other than HP modules
>A step closer to shield vs armor balance


Cons to this idea:
>People are going to flame me
>Dual tankers will cry

If this is applied flux grenades should be nerfed to work like locus grenades, somewhat so that a basic flux doesn't wipe a shield user of the face of the earth. Also all weapons should be buffed in damage by about 15% as to not offset the kill times.

Before anybody starts flaming and say armor will be OP bla bla bla, remember that shields are more resistant to damage than armor, they are self repairing, and are faster than armor. The numerical HP difference between a armor and shield suit would be around 150-200.

If I may suggest an alternative solution?
We have two fitting resources, powergrid and CPU. If fitting 'tank modules' took up lots of powergrid and little CPU and fitting 'utility modules' took up little powergrid and lots of CPU, then it would encourage single tanking with utility modules.

I'll be happy to go into greater depth in future to discuss this with you if you wish but I honestly am unconvinced that there is any need to make mechanical changes to prevent duel tanking.

If the mods are properly balanced then there's no problem with duel tanking, it's just another option.
If the mods are not properly balanced then that's a problem even without duel tanking and needs to be corrected which brings us back to my prior point when considering duel tanking.

0.02 ISK
Cross

PS ~ Yes I absolutely duel tank frequently but I put game balance ahead of personal preference, convince me why an armor plus damage mods fit or a shields plus KinCat fit is more valid/less effective game wide than a duel tanked fit.

Also as an additional note when considering balance the costs in both ISK and SP of a fit must be included, if a med frame fit has more eHP than a Heavy but costs 200% more then that's not really a balance concern at least not in a direct way. And very few fits can legitimately touch that level at all even discounting cost.

Another Cal Logi hater who thinks that the racial bonus removal wasn't enough to nerf the class.

Anyway, for what it's worth I rarely see Cal Logis who dual tank. Most that I see are pure shield tanks or shield/speed tanks, not armor tanks.

Those that do have armor plates have maybe 250 HP in armor - not a whole lot. I see dual tanking more like having a security blanket when you have to take cover while your shields are recharging. If the enemy rushes you during that time, it's simply not enough tank to save you.