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Promethius Franklin
DUST University Ivy League
170
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Posted - 2013.08.19 20:03:00 -
[1] - Quote
Why do people keep claiming that being able to move SP around would keep people playing? Does SP allocation really make up for the lack of content, broken mechanics, vehicle issues, terrible NPE and problematic infantry balance? Most of the people I've seem leave did so for one of those reasons. Also, with respecs removing the need to gain new SP to diversify wouldn't that just lead to fewer people playing as gaining more SP is now vastly less important as it's no longer the only way to diversify?
Also why should obtaining a second spec be instantaneous? The idea of the SP systems is targeted at selective progression, not a race to top level, thus a respec doesn't make sense as your build is supposed to be a function of what you chose to work towards, not a function of a simple SP count. Reallocation of SP pushes us towards the latter.
And why should FOTM chasers be helped? I know a lot of people claim it will help with balance, but I doubt it will considering how fast the flaylock nerf happened, and even if it does it will do so at the expense of those who don't FOTM chase. |
Promethius Franklin
DUST University Ivy League
170
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 20:24:00 -
[2] - Quote
Cy Clone1 wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:People want to be able to skill into the FOTM at will. enough with this flavor of the month bs once they are done fixing aiming or what ever they do. Balancing will be come much better and then we can stop seeing fotm. to the p2w guy -Respecs are less p2w than boosters or aur weaponry. Im not going to play a game come across a sniper and say " hey why don't I replace 14mill sp and become a sniper to kill that guy" Some people have jobs or are getting ready to go to university and cant spend every week capping out for months so they can get equipment they don't like. Respecs will keep people playing. No, if this is really such an issue we need to get rid of the skill system and be done with it. It's completely pointless and self defeating for a system based around specializations to have a means to just opt out at will. Also the "I have personal commitments" reasoning is played out. Unfortunately any and all long term skill plans will conflict with this unless, as the op proposes, we negate the point of the system.
Lets just go with a COD-like level system and be done with it. Skills are pointless when easily overridden. |
Promethius Franklin
DUST University Ivy League
171
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 20:37:00 -
[3] - Quote
Cy Clone1 wrote:Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:Vespasian Andendare wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:People want to be able to skill into the FOTM at will. People get bored of sitting on skills that are no longer relevant to them And here it is. You (the people that want respecs) skilled into FOTM setups, they got nerfed, and now you're regretful that you put all your eggs in Flaylock pistols. Well, too bad. Skill into new things that you want to play, or continue using the Flaylock pistol (or whatever is your FOTM-that-got-nerfed) and be happy you skilled into it, since IT WAS THE PLAYSTYLE YOU ENJOYED, OR YOU WOULD NOT HAVE SPENT YOUR SP THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE, NO? oh? Please explain to me how my situation, is me wanting the FoTM. - 17 mil SP - Proto weapons: HMG, AR, SR, FG, FLP, SMG, Nades, Shotgun - Proto suits: Heavy basic, Gallente basic - SP saved up: by now 1 mil How do I need a respec to be up to the FoTM? Some people want a respec simply cuz they're tired of playing their current role / class. Heavies haven't got a single new item in this game since closed beta. What if i don't want to the class anymore simply cuz it's boring as **** having nothing new for over a year and a half? But nah... EVERYBODY wants a respec for FoTM right? im in the same boat only I have every vehicle type, would be nice to try some new stuff. With 1m SP you should easily be able to try other things, especially since having high SP counts likely means you don't have to worry about much by way of core skills and can go about fully dedicated to expanding your arsenal. The only reason your situation is problematic is if you have the impression that proto gear/suits are needed just for trying something new, refuse to run gear below proto, or only play PC matches which necessitate proto. I don't see any of these being a very compelling justification for a respec. |
Promethius Franklin
DUST University Ivy League
171
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 20:41:00 -
[4] - Quote
Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:Promethius Franklin wrote:Cy Clone1 wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:People want to be able to skill into the FOTM at will. enough with this flavor of the month bs once they are done fixing aiming or what ever they do. Balancing will be come much better and then we can stop seeing fotm. to the p2w guy -Respecs are less p2w than boosters or aur weaponry. Im not going to play a game come across a sniper and say " hey why don't I replace 14mill sp and become a sniper to kill that guy" Some people have jobs or are getting ready to go to university and cant spend every week capping out for months so they can get equipment they don't like. Respecs will keep people playing. No, if this is really such an issue we need to get rid of the skill system and be done with it. It's completely pointless and self defeating for a system based around specializations to have a means to just opt out at will. Also the "I have personal commitments" reasoning is played out. Unfortunately any and all long term progression systems will conflict with this unless, as the op proposes, we negate the point of the system. Lets just go with a COD-like level system and be done with it. Skills are pointless when easily overridden. oh yea cuz paying money for a respec once every couple months is totally unreasonable Do you actually have a counter argument?
Edit: I've stated why respecs ruin the SP system and proposed we (request to) abolish it instead of having it linger pointlessly. Care to explain how "reasonable" a long term specialization based system with years of skills isn't negated by getting do-overs every month? |
Promethius Franklin
DUST University Ivy League
171
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 20:50:00 -
[5] - Quote
Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:Promethius Franklin wrote: With 1m SP you should easily be able to try other things, especially since having high SP counts likely means you don't have to worry about much by way of core skills and can go about fully dedicated to expanding your arsenal. The only reason your situation is problematic is if you have the impression that proto gear/suits are needed just for trying something new, refuse to run gear below proto, or only play PC matches which necessitate proto. I don't see any of these being a very compelling justification for a respec.
Any new suit proto is what, 1.5 mil and a racial suit is what, 2.5 mil or something? So people are suppose to grind this boring game for weeks / months to get something new simply because their class offers nothing anymore? Proto gear is needed for PC, which was about the only thing I played in this game since lolpubs. I played this game since E3 last year, grinding every week to get SP to try new things. Now that I'm where I am SP wise, and I want to try new things, I'm suppose to continue grinding? lol... nice way to keep people playing huh? What do you think people rather? More grinding in lolpubs, or paying to get a respec on their hard earned SP? For the betterment of the game, people should be able to pay to get a respec on their SP ALREADY EARNED. Then GET RID OF THE SKILL SYSTEM IN FAVOR OF A SHORT TERM SYSTEM. It doesn't make sense to have a system like this in place if a) All that matters is the top tier (really it just means that lower tiers are irrelevant as well as the players confined to them) and b) the skill system locks you into a particular equipment set by design, a design which is diametrically opposed to respecs.
And pointing out that people earned their SP in no way negates that. Remember, those same people chose where to place that SP. |
Promethius Franklin
DUST University Ivy League
171
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 20:55:00 -
[6] - Quote
Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:Promethius Franklin wrote:
Edit: I've stated why respecs ruin the SP system and proposed we (request to) abolish it instead of having it linger pointlessly. Care to explain how "reasonable" a long term specialization based system with years of skills is when negated by getting do-overs every month?
long term specialization? How is this possible when not everything is in the game? Heavies have 1 suit, scouts have 2 suits. How is this specializing into anything? Sounds more like being forced to spend SP on a race you don't want but have no choice. Do we not have skills that take large amounts of time and/or gameplay to max out? If we don't, why does this thread exist? If we do, guess what kind of skill system we have? Incomplete offerings don't negate that. If you train min scout for lack of caldari scout you are still specializing in min scout. You may chose later to diversify, or CCP could provide an entirely justified 1 time respec upon completion of the basic suit tree, but that doesn't change what you are doing with the investment of skills. |
Promethius Franklin
DUST University Ivy League
171
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 21:02:00 -
[7] - Quote
Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:Promethius Franklin wrote: Then GET RID OF THE SKILL SYSTEM IN FAVOR OF A SHORT TERM SYSTEM. It doesn't make sense to have a system like this in place if a) All that matters is the top tier (really it just means that lower tiers are irrelevant as well as the players confined to them) and b) the skill system locks you into a particular equipment set by design, a design which is diametrically opposed to respecs.
And pointing out that people earned their SP in no way negates that. Remember, those same people chose where to place that SP.
not sure if trolling at this point... get rid of the SP system is your argument? smfh... i'm done. If people can't live without respecs why not? Again, what is the point of the system if specializations, which do and will continue to exist if left as is, if they are easily negated?
Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:People choose? "Forced" specialization is no less specialization than that which is done in the presence of a full set of options. After all they still chose scout over heavy or medium or their specs. |
Promethius Franklin
DUST University Ivy League
171
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 21:05:00 -
[8] - Quote
Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:lol... people are forced to choose a race, yet you're still preaching specialization? lol... It is and always has been. People spec into the thing that closest represents what they are after. Not having a subset of options doesn't negate this.
Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:Edit: this game is not EVE btw. This no respec thing only flies on PC games. CCP running DUST like they do EVE has done nothing but put DUST in its current state. At this point you're arguing that Dust was a failed concept from the beginning.
I'm starting to agree. |
Promethius Franklin
DUST University Ivy League
171
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 21:16:00 -
[9] - Quote
Obi Wan-Jacobi wrote:Promethius Franklin wrote:Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:lol... people are forced to choose a race, yet you're still preaching specialization? lol... It is and always has been. People spec into the thing that closest represents what they are after. Not having a subset of options doesn't negate this. Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:Edit: this game is not EVE btw. This no respec thing only flies on PC games. CCP running DUST like they do EVE has done nothing but put DUST in its current state. At this point you're arguing that Dust was a failed concept from the beginning. I'm starting to agree. Edit: And it's not CCP that has me leaning that way. Yes its going to fail if this is run like EVE. It already is. Everybody just AFK's or plays just PC. Not a successful game in my mind To be blunt, that just means it shouldn't exist. CCP has proven they don't have a product that is on par with a core shooter experience. It's the other aspects, including connection with EvE and character progression, that would have been what gave it a chance. But the EvE population has largely rejected meaningful interaction and the dust side doesn't have anything on which to stand alone. Add to that the fact that anything it can bring that helps it distinguish itself is seen by its players as being to PC-centric or EvE-centric, an argument which I can't say I understand in the least. |
Promethius Franklin
DUST University Ivy League
171
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 21:21:00 -
[10] - Quote
Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:Promethius Franklin wrote: "Forced" specialization is no less specialization than that which is done in the presence of a full set of options. After all they still chose scout over heavy or medium or their specs.
that's not a choice. That's an illusion of choice. Either is "choose" to pick the Amarr heavy, or I don't play. Simple. Since I wanted to play, Amarr was the ONLY "choice" I had, as well as others. Again, that's not a choice, that's a forced option. You did have a choice, your choice was to play or not to play a heavy. You chose to play one. And you took the only one you had. And even then I'm not arguing that you should be stuck with it indefinitely. I'm completely for a one time respec when the options are added, which is the same time when this excuse disappears. After that point respecs are purely detrimental to the system and regular ones render it pointless. |
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Promethius Franklin
DUST University Ivy League
182
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 23:11:00 -
[11] - Quote
Obi Wan-Jacobi wrote:Promethius Franklin wrote:Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:lol... people are forced to choose a race, yet you're still preaching specialization? lol... It is and always has been. People spec into the thing that closest represents what they are after. Not having a subset of options doesn't negate this. Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:Edit: this game is not EVE btw. This no respec thing only flies on PC games. CCP running DUST like they do EVE has done nothing but put DUST in its current state. At this point you're arguing that Dust was a failed concept from the beginning. I'm starting to agree. Edit: And it's not CCP that has me leaning that way. Yes its going to fail if this is run like EVE. It already is. Everybody just AFK's or plays just PC. Not a successful game in my mind Who is this "everyone"? I've as of yet not found a terribly large shortage of people to shoot or trying to shoot me and I've never done a PC match. There are plenty of people playing and the only people who don't see that are the ones who spend all their time in the MCC. |
Promethius Franklin
DUST University Ivy League
182
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 23:35:00 -
[12] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Promethius Franklin wrote:Edit: I've stated why respecs ruin the SP system and proposed we (request to) abolish it instead of having it linger pointlessly. Care to explain how "reasonable" a long term specialization based system with years of skills is when negated by getting do-overs every month? The system doesn't have "years" of skills in specializations. This game actually has FAR too few skills to truly promote any form of long term specialization, and instead of in depth cool detailed content we just unlock a couple % differences and maybe a high or low slot along with a higher base number. You max out any given specialization in a few months, then you "sidegrade", assuming you had the patience to sit on the only thing keeping the game remotely interesting at this point (SP). If you sidegrade first and spread out your skills, you can compensate a little for having low FPS skills by being more versatile, since having better gear won't make up for you lack of skill in the first place. This game does not promote long term specialization because specializations are a joke and the only reason people fear FoTM is because there is a striking lack of customization in this game to the point where a system designed to support "endless" specializations boils down to a few choice builds in the build touted by the game designers to be a big step in the right direction. One word Flaylock Oddly, most of the respec request reasoning uses the opposite logic, stating that reaching proficiency in a particular subset of skills takes too long thus causing people to lose interest for lack of variety. Creating a deeper tree would only further exasperate this as abundant isk makes running the best feasible thus, for those who didn't diversify on their own, mandatory when meaningful improvements are present.
I would like to hear your idea of what specialization should entail though. Also why you feel the specializations are a joke. Some increased balance would greatly increase the number of viable builds thus making customization meaningful again, thus making good customization a byproduct of balanced game attributes and a skill tree with sufficient depth without making things relatively useless without having explored the lowest levels of that depth. |
Promethius Franklin
DUST University Ivy League
182
|
Posted - 2013.08.22 00:10:00 -
[13] - Quote
Obi Wan-Jacobi wrote:Promethius Franklin wrote:Obi Wan-Jacobi wrote: Yes its going to fail if this is run like EVE. It already is. Everybody just AFK's or plays just PC. Not a successful game in my mind
Who is this "everyone"? I've as of yet not found a terribly large shortage of people to shoot or trying to shoot me and I've never done a PC match. There are plenty of people playing and the only people who don't see that are the ones who spend all their time in the MCC. This game in the past few months have gone from like 6000 at a time to like 4000. Thats A LOT of players lost. Not many players i used to play with even play at this point. 6000 was right after the expansion. The expansion gave people a greater reason to log in. Numbers tapering afterwards isn't really odd IMHO. Numbers prior to the launch date look like they were lower despite being in open beta. Also there hasn't been too many strong pushes to get players in lately and likely won't be for a while yet while CCP tries to clean things up. |
Promethius Franklin
DUST University Ivy League
182
|
Posted - 2013.08.22 00:45:00 -
[14] - Quote
Obi Wan-Jacobi wrote:I had plenty of friends quit the game at Uprising cus they hated it. While in Chromosome they played like all day. This is a direct contradiction to your assertion though. It's a clear indication that the issue isn't a lack of respecs, it's the gameplay issues introduced with Uprising. |
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